1.6 Free race change [1.6.x MAJOR CHANGES] [Confirmed: Stamina OP]

TheShadowScout · February 2015

IF we ever got a race change, it certainly won't be free, but cost a hefty amount of crowns.

And I'd be okay with that. Those who want change badly enough to pay the price, go ahead. Even if they want to change their race every week, go ahead, fill the developers war chest. Just means more funds for them to finance making more content for all of us...

And those who are happy with their race, can save the crowns and/or spend them on anything else they like. Everyone wins.

f047ys3v3n · February 2015

I've wanted a race change since they screwed my Orc out of his 10% movement speed bonus and gave him some crap shield charge and sprint thing. Hasn't happened yet. My fault apparently for not foreseeing that ZOS was going to change my racial passives. Just one of the many many reasons I left.

And, are racial bonuses important? Dark Elves are more than 3 times as common in Cyridil as Argonians, Orcs, Wood elves, Kajit, and redgaurd so somebody thinks they are.

Iluvrien · February 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

And those who are happy with their race, can save the crowns and/or spend them on anything else they like. Everyone wins.

Except that with a race change mechanic it adds another flexible component that can become a requirement for grouping. The "LF1M DPS" becomes "LF1M Dunmer DPS, No Redguard" for example.

Including a race change, especially in the crown store, would only encourage this kind of exclusionary practice and, speaking only for myself, I have no desire to see this become even more prevalent in this game.

Vahrokh · February 2015

GreyRanger wrote: »

A big challenge is that this sort of dramatic re-balancing has consequences for people. I have a stamina - sorcerer build that I like playing and is my provisioner. Unfortunately with the sorcerer changes I don't think my build really works any longer. I already have a magica based sorcerer so I don't want another, but I sure don't want to re-roll and gather all those recipes again. So sort of stuck.

I might like a class respec, that that is not going to happen. When the devs make big changes, even if needed, they inevitably break the mechanics that some players characters were based on.

I wholeheartedly support class change. Playing a runt, a lemon for several months grew old at last. And patch 1.6 is going to make it a different runt.

Vahrokh · February 2015

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

Not picking at you GreyRanger, just using your sentiment. I've been seeing it here and there. I am beginning to wonder if the majority of ppl who hold it have played many other MMOs before? Because class/job shakeups are pretty common in the aftermath of major game mechanic/system changes.

In other MMOs you play your gimp waiting for the next rebalance that will make it good. In ESO the next rebalance makes it worse.

Spiritreaver_ESO · February 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

Not picking at you GreyRanger, just using your sentiment. I've been seeing it here and there. I am beginning to wonder if the majority of ppl who hold it have played many other MMOs before? Because class/job shakeups are pretty common in the aftermath of major game mechanic/system changes.

In other MMOs you play your gimp waiting for the next rebalance that will make it good. In ESO the next rebalance makes it worse.

Or you can take the approach some go with. Which is to forget about labels like 'gimp' or 'pwnezor!!!11!!' and the like and just pick the race you have the most affinity with. Then rebalances will lose a lot of their ability to mess up your day-on the one front anyways.

Taleof2Cities · February 2015

Or you can take the approach some go with. Which is to forget about labels like 'gimp' or 'pwnezor!!!11!!' and the like and just pick the race you have the most affinity with. Then rebalances will lose a lot of their ability to mess up your day-on the one front anyways.

My High Elf Nightblade's eyebrows are raised high on such a refreshing post. Yes, play the game how you want to.

I'm pretty indifferent on the race change. Let players do it if they want to ... and have there be some minimal cost like a respec. As for the Alliance change, I have no idea why on earth anyone would want to be AD or EP.

Snowstrider · February 2015

Showracemenu

KerinKor · February 2015

Emencie wrote: »

Race change does not change anything that effects anyone but the person who race changed. It's a 4 skill point swap. If you race change it doesn't change anything for me, If I race change it doesn't change anything for you.

It means you have the ability to have any race in any faction, something people paid for when they pre-ordered and got the Explorer's Pack .. and ZOS have said this will NOT be appearing in the Store.

So yes, this would be a means to achieve something ZOS don't want to be available any more.

Vahrokh · February 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

Except that with a race change mechanic it adds another flexible component that can become a requirement for grouping. The "LF1M DPS" becomes "LF1M Dunmer DPS, No Redguard" for example.

Including a race change, especially in the crown store, would only encourage this kind of exclusionary practice and, speaking only for myself, I have no desire to see this become even more prevalent in this game.

In case you didn't notice, this phenomenon which I call: "stigma" is already in here. The most common is class / spec stigma, in example till the recent past if you were a Templar you could not enter a trial as DPS, if you had a stamina spec you'd be left out. But there's been race stigma too, and this with our current "mild" races bonuses. When trials were a new thing, on the EU server there have been two progression guilds that would invite people basing on exact class, spec AND race.

If Sanctum shall prove to be much harder post patch 1.6 due to the general nerf to stats (with CPs to be re-grinded later) then people will min max again and shall demand "proper race" again. Actually this time they'll be more entitled to.

Result: those stuck in a post 1.6 "bad race" will be left out and their only option shall be to dump their gold geared VR 14 character and reroll.
Or to wait until content will be trivial again (months?)... which more or less is the same as just regrinding a character back from level 1.

Iluvrien · February 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

In case you didn't notice, this phenomenon which I call: "stigma" is already in here.

I did notice that. These days it is the primary reason that I am inclined to only group with members of my own guild... unless there is an emergency of some kind that requires me to group up. I haven't met one yet.

Vahrokh wrote: »

The most common is class / spec stigma, in example till the recent past if you were a Templar you could not enter a trial as DPS, if you had a stamina spec you'd be left out. But there's been race stigma too, and this with our current "mild" races bonuses. When trials were a new thing, on the EU server there have been two progression guilds that would invite people basing on exact class, spec AND race.

And do you think they will be more or less likely to include race in the spec if:
a) There is a free race change with the new systems?
b) There is the capacity to change your race included in the crown store at some point?

I can't see any other answer to those questions being more likely than "yes". By giving the players the capacity to change race it means that we immediately encourage race to become a part of the standard LF spec because those issuing it will have an expectation (rather than a hope) of a perfect match. The groups will then become more exclusive, not less, and the problem of "stigma" will worsen, not improve.

So as I said before, I don't think this is a workable solution to the issue of rebalanced racial passives.

FallenProphet · February 2015

Bunch a whiny spoiled babies

ashlee17 · February 2015

I share your concerns supernico. With yet more upcoming changes to racial pasives it is clear that we need a way around the problem. Unfortunately due to how cute my little kitty khajjit is I would hate to have to change its appearance just for better racial passives and so I have come up with this-

A fair solution for all...

Since the racial pasives have been changed several times already since the beginning of ESO I think it would be fair to offer players a way to change their native racial pasives.

I propose that zos give all characters the ability to unlock and "channel the spirit" (aka passives) of another race.

This would allow any race to use the passive a of any other race in place of their own, while retaining the "look" of there original race.

The different racial passives could be unlocked though a series of quests or as an addition to the champion system.

It would work in a similar style to Mundas stone effects.

As the changes have affected all characters this option should be avalible to all, though a way to speed up the unlock "could" be sold though the cash shop.

This might be a fair solution to the problems that have arisen by zos continually changing racial pasives now and into the future.

Thanks for reading. We have a verry passionate community here on the forums so please be kind to my humble idea

Gix · February 2015

For those who pick races for the numbers and proceed to complain/worry about it every patch... maybe that should give you a clue about the effectiveness of your decisions.

If you play to be the most optimal FotM build, then be prepared to deal with the consequences. That has no long-term value and the game is always "subject to change".

You always have a choice... do we really have to hear you cry about it?

AngryNord · February 2015

I wonder if LoTRO players complain that their Hobbits aren't as tall as Elves?

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2015

supernico wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

My guess is we get faction and race changes in the Crown Shop within 12-18 months.

I don't see them allowing that for free every time they balance or change mechanics.

Not every time, but given the nature of this patch, having such a big impact to the gameplay, by logic they should give the option to change it.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

The only reason I would change one of my characters races for is if they added new races I really wanted despite having filled all my character slots. Not for FotM reasons. But then, I never build my characters to take advantage of racial boni anyways, I play this game to have fun, not to be super effective...

A race change that costs a lot of crowns on the other hand, that one I can see coming sooner or later. Then everyone can decide if its worth the price for them...

This thread might not be for you, but thanks for your input

All the crap in this patch and the concern is some racial passives? This is why we get things like a shoddy justice system. They wave something shiny in front of us and we swoon. They probably will implement a race change just because it's a terrible idea.

Aeratus · February 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

By giving the players the capacity to change race it means that we immediately encourage race to become a part of the standard LF spec because those issuing it will have an expectation (rather than a hope) of a perfect match. The groups will then become more exclusive, not less, and the problem of "stigma" will worsen, not improve.

Unfounded alarmist statements again.

We have vampires tanking CoA and vet DSA, and nobody cares about indirect factors when the only relevant fact is the end product (survivability and dps).

But to the individual dps, race is important, when some races can do potentially 7-8% more dps purely by virtual of race, his marketability to elite end-game content will always be affected by race.

In other words, nobody cares what race you play, but if your dps sucks because your race sucks, then you might not get invited. And a 7-8% difference will definitely define who is elite and who is not in some circumstances.

SanderBuraas · February 2015

FallenProphet wrote: »

Bunch a whiny spoiled babies

Agree. People have a tendency to believe they have the right to certain things, such as a race change with every update.

I know of a way you can get a free race change - create a new character. If you really can not live with your current character, that is your solution.

They might offer appearance alterations in-game, at least a barber has been confirmed, but race changes should not, and probably will not be added to the game.

Rook_Master · February 2015

Instead of allowing race changes, what they need to do is simply balance the racial passives.

It's not rocket science. A good start would be replacing passives that give regen with the flat % bonus like the "good" races.

Forcing people to accept inferior passives in pursuit of some ludicrous ideal of "uniqueness" amongst the races is a complete disservice to players and ignores the reality of the situation.

RedTalon · February 2015

@zos Add race change to the crown shop for say 2100 crowns that will be fitting and make everyone happy and you some needed cash from the min-maxing people and make them happy so they can do their thing.

Just my two crowns

Iago · February 2015

No race changes, if it goes in the crown store as a P2W thing then charge $500.00 to keep everyone from doing it

Spangla · February 2015

k9mouse wrote: »

Race should mean something, if a player wants a new race, roll a new alt or live with it. If ZOS starts treating race as a number game, it will take meaning and purpose of lore. Like or not, ESO is and should always be based on lore and not some random number. We have 8 char slots, learn how to use them.

Yes but the choice u made to pick that race DOESN'T mean anything if the reason you chose it gets changed fundamentally.

jaygraeb14a_ESO wrote: »

the racial changes are so minor not a chance. If you rolled your "race" to get that extra "l33t pew pew" gamer boy win, your bad.

This is why you role what you LIKE rather than playing the COD fanboi pain train.

No racial change FTW.

They are not minor - you fail to understand. Why do you bother to put enchants on all of your pieces of armour? Why not just remove one? No big deal.

I'd say optimal race and build synergy offers an extra legendary glyph bonus at the very least, in some cases more.

Jitterbug · February 2015

Lynnessa wrote: »

The plural form of bonus is bonuses. Not boni. English =/= Latin.

boni is a fun word tho

Iduyenn · February 2015

Just because some of you feel a suddn need to play a stamina build, the devs should not nerf the class passives to minimal impact.

No

Nerfing passives makes no sense.

The only alternative would have been to be able to choose from a pool of character passives. You could choose three
passives from all class-passives. (Edit: As mentioned earlyer)
But simply nerfing would decrease the gravity of your first decisions. It should have a meaning to have to stick with it.

I understand you all. I had a v14 Highelf Templar and because i hoped for a good reason to play
Werewolf i leveled an Imperial Templar (and after that an imperial DK).
And as a Tank i had to get three times Undaunted passives and three times PVP Boni. As much as i wish, i am no pro gamer and
have to earn my cookies in Rl.

If you are truly a min/maxer, you better fill your character slots with suitable twinks.
There will come more obstacles for your playstile. Adapt or reroll.

There are still other class racials very powerful for their purposes. All those Darkelf-Vampire-Dk`s and those Nord-Tanks have still
very strong passives. If you play Magicka there are still very strong Races like High-elves.

Class passives should have some impact. It should not be possible to change it every time the game changes. If you want to be the 1%,
then you should make a twink and put the extra effort in it.

You have to remember: This makes the ppl who wanted to play stamina from the beginning finaly as strong as the rest of the playerbase.
We had to eat dirt for the last year.

You may want to play as you wish, but for me, i like it, to have at least some boundaries of specialisation. It should not be like a swiss army knife, where one tool can do everything; Tanking, DD, Heal, Stamina, Magicka, Impulse bomb-vampire- werewolf-assassination.

Edit: And nontheless you will have some bonuses anyway. Even if you want to play a Highelf Tank. You will use the extra magicka simply for more utility.

Reremnu · February 2015

Most players want to change race mostly due to changes introduced in 1.6.

Since release a lot has changed:
- removal of soft caps
- changes in some racial passives
- changes/rebalance of crafted item sets.

We should get a one time race change for characters created before 1.6 goes live due to plethora of changes in update 1.6 and since release. What 1.6 brings is not a simple update but a complete rebalance of the game.

Islyn · February 2015

Regardless of whether you personally create your build around racial/class passives they are a big part of the game and require a fton of skillpoints to unlock.

If ZOS is going to have racial/class passives at all which cost skillpoints to use - then those passives which have been changed significantly should be reset.

One example is the NB potion one - that is a big change. Those points should be released and the passive relocked.

Regardless of what each player does or does not do with their build.

Iluvrien · February 2015

Aeratus wrote: »

Unfounded alarmist statements again.

Alarmist? Possibly. Unfounded? No. I and others have spoken about having seen this in other situations in other games and even having experienced it in ESO to some degree. As such it does not meet the requirements for that term.

Aeratus wrote: »

We have vampires tanking CoA and vet DSA, and nobody cares about indirect factors when the only relevant fact is the end product (survivability and dps).

But to the individual dps, race is important, when some races can do potentially 7-8% more dps purely by virtual of race, his marketability to elite end-game content will always be affected by race.

In other words, nobody cares what race you play, but if your dps sucks because your race sucks, then you might not get invited. And a 7-8% difference will definitely define who is elite and who is not in some circumstances.

You do rather seem to have increased my concerns rather than removed them. You have, rather eloquently and concisely, stated that race does have an impact on the dps and/or survivability of any character (7-8% worth of impact)...

...but then you go on to say that the only reason why anyone would care about those 7-8% is if your dps/survivability sucked.

You don't think that groups would prefer the not-sucking build and the 7-8% extra? Because that is what store-based race changes would offer as a possibility.

Nefrast · February 2015

Iduyenn wrote: »

You may want to play as you wish, but for me, i like it, to have at least some boundaries of specialisation. It should not be like a swiss army knife, where one tool can do everything; Tanking, DD, Heal, Stamina, Magicka, Impulse bomb-vampire- werewolf-assassination.

So just offer race changes for whoever want it or pays for it, and people who like "boundaries" can have as many as they like - just don't use options you don't like.

supernico · February 2015

EDIT 07/02/2015 MAJOR CHANGE IN WOOD ELF PASSIVE:

Extracted from PTS Patch 1.6.1 Notes

Wood Elf
Y’ffre’s Endurance: The Wood Elf racial skill Exhilaration (formerly Vigor) has been replaced with Y'ffre's Endurance, which grants an increase of 7%/14%/21% to Stamina Regeneration while in combat.

Stamina regen has been MORE THAN DOUBLED (from 3/6/9%) in percentage.

Gyudan · February 2015

Racial Comparison (a bit old but still mostly relevant)

Altmer: OP for magicka
Bosmer: OP with the buff to stamina regen
Khajiit: OP with the current crit chances after the 1.6 changes to crit chance
Breton: OP for magicka
Orsimer: a bit weaker because of health regeneration
Redguard: OP stamina DPS
Argonian: a bit weaker with the changes to potions
Dunmer: OP for DK
Nord: OP damage mitigation
Imperial: OP health and stamina pool

Apart from Orcs and Argonians, I think that the current passives are quite balanced and can all be used efficiently by min/maxers.