@ZOS: Steadfast Ward

e.chiesa73b16_ESO · January 2015

Hi,
as a sorc healer my arsenal of skills is limited to resto staff. As such the only "panic button" I have is steadfast ward. But it has many drawbacks:
a) cost
b) we can't chain cast it. It will always land on the same player even if he is already shielded, because it only look at player's hp. So, if we have all party at low hp, it's only usefull to protect ONE party member. And actually, recasting it is a magicka loss, because the shields don't add up.
c) player must be at very low health, for SW to be effective. So it's very tricky to use effectively.

That said, you have buffed it by a meager 4(four)%.

I still think it deserve a more substantial buff.

omfgitsbatman · January 2015

I agree with you 100%
I am a nightblade healer and have the very same problems. You did forget one though. You forgot that damage shields take damage unmitigated, so having a damage shield is very misleading when it gives a shield for a percentage of your health, but in reality, it's a much less valuable shield than it seems.

e.chiesa73b16_ESO · January 2015

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

I agree with you 100%
I am a nightblade healer and have the very same problems. You did forget one though. You forgot that damage shields take damage unmitigated, so having a damage shield is very misleading when it gives a shield for a percentage of your health, but in reality, it's a much less valuable shield than it seems.

Ooops, forgot that. So it's basically useless in its current state.

omfgitsbatman · January 2015

Wouldn't say useless... It's still the best option we have for an emergency... but that's saying something right there. Definitely needs some love.

Edit: All of Resto Staff could use a bit of love.

e.chiesa73b16_ESO · January 2015

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Wouldn't say useless... It's still the best option we have for an emergency... but that's saying something right there. Definitely needs some love.

Edit: All of Resto Staff could use a bit of love.

OT: great signature

omfgitsbatman · January 2015

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Wouldn't say useless... It's still the best option we have for an emergency... but that's saying something right there. Definitely needs some love.

Edit: All of Resto Staff could use a bit of love.

OT: great signature

Tyvm!

DDuke · January 2015

9/10 NBs are already running with a resto staff, give it a break.

If anything, something should be done to the fact that 92% of people are spamming heals/dmg shields in PvP. Yes, I can back those numbers up:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144002/do-you-have-a-heal-or-a-dmg-shield-slotted-on-your-hotbar/p1

I'm fine with healers getting stronger healing/dmg shield abilities, but currently there is zero drawback for DPS to slot them (as they scale with spell dmg as well).

e.chiesa73b16_ESO · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

9/10 NBs are already running with a resto staff, give it a break.

If anything, something should be done to the fact that 92% of people are spamming heals/dmg shields in PvP. Yes, I can back those numbers up:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144002/do-you-have-a-heal-or-a-dmg-shield-slotted-on-your-hotbar/p1

And that is pertinent...how?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

omfgitsbatman · January 2015

You can't spam steadfast ward for very long... The cost is too great. I do understand why people run with self heals and damage shields in PVP... That seems kind of obvious. I believe we were more talking PVE though. Frankly, Resto staff does not come close to competing with Templar heals. That is the problem here.
You can't really expect there to be a huge drawback in PVP to running with a resto staff... If you chose to run resto staff, then you are limited to class abilities and resto abilities that's the drawback. That's frankly the same as any other weapon. What's the drawback to running 1H/S? Dual Wield? You get acces to the skill lines or benefits of the skill... Running Dual Wield and 1H/S get you access to one more piece of gear that could complete a set bonus.

DDuke · January 2015

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

9/10 NBs are already running with a resto staff, give it a break.

If anything, something should be done to the fact that 92% of people are spamming heals/dmg shields in PvP. Yes, I can back those numbers up:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144002/do-you-have-a-heal-or-a-dmg-shield-slotted-on-your-hotbar/p1

And that is pertinent...how?

As someone who has played this game longer than you, I feel I have a slight bit more insight into how combat balance is in PvP and how this game works.

Buffing restoration staff and/or dmg shields/heals in general without giving them drawback would only further harm the (currently almost non-existent) build diversity in PvP, so I feel it is relevant to point out that buffing it is probably not a good idea.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version and removed response]

omfgitsbatman · January 2015

I have always been a proponent of balancing the healing classes, not necessarily buffing resto staff. Just making it on par with Templars. One of my favorite suggestions was swap Combat prayer and Breath of Life. Put Breath of Life in Resto Staff and Combat prayer into Restoring Light. Of course Templar's would not enjoy this, but It would balance every class as far as healing goes pretty well without any real downfalls in PVP.

Soulac · January 2015

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

You can't spam steadfast ward for very long... The cost is too great. I do understand why people run with self heals and damage shields in PVP... That seems kind of obvious. I believe we were more talking PVE though. Frankly, Resto staff does not come close to competing with Templar heals. That is the problem here.
You can't really expect there to be a huge drawback in PVP to running with a resto staff... If you chose to run resto staff, then you are limited to class abilities and resto abilities that's the drawback. That's frankly the same as any other weapon. What's the drawback to running 1H/S? Dual Wield? You get acces to the skill lines or benefits of the skill... Running Dual Wield and 1H/S get you access to one more piece of gear that could complete a set bonus.

My NB is able to cast it roughly 40 times every minute, I think I can spam it..

omfgitsbatman · January 2015

Soulac wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

You can't spam steadfast ward for very long... The cost is too great. I do understand why people run with self heals and damage shields in PVP... That seems kind of obvious. I believe we were more talking PVE though. Frankly, Resto staff does not come close to competing with Templar heals. That is the problem here.
You can't really expect there to be a huge drawback in PVP to running with a resto staff... If you chose to run resto staff, then you are limited to class abilities and resto abilities that's the drawback. That's frankly the same as any other weapon. What's the drawback to running 1H/S? Dual Wield? You get acces to the skill lines or benefits of the skill... Running Dual Wield and 1H/S get you access to one more piece of gear that could complete a set bonus.

My NB is able to cast it roughly 40 times every minute, I think I can spam it..

Oh god, please tell me how! If I could do this, I would never QQ about resto staff again. How do you manage to have enough magika?
I can Definitely do this with Mutagen or Healing springs, but no way I could do it with Steadfast ward. Even wearing Seducer and cost reduction glyphs, while popping mad potions, there's no way I could do it.

DDuke · January 2015

What they should do is separate Healing & Spell Damage, in order to make people choose whether they want to be defensive (tanky/more tanky as currently, but deal a lot less damage) or offensive (deal lots of dmg, but weak heals/shields), or a hybrid between the two.

This would be proper balance, instead of just shoving heals or dmg shields to everyone.

omfgitsbatman · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

What they should do is separate Healing & Spell Damage, in order to make people choose whether they want to be defensive (tanky/more tanky as currently, but deal a lot less damage) or offensive (deal lots of dmg, but weak heals/shields), or a hybrid between the two.

This would be proper balance, instead of just shoving heals or dmg shields to everyone.

I like this suggestion too... but how would you scale things like funnel health?

On the same note, they would need to separate 1H/S blocking/dodge roll from stam dps as well for the same reasons.

Soulac · January 2015

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

You can't spam steadfast ward for very long... The cost is too great. I do understand why people run with self heals and damage shields in PVP... That seems kind of obvious. I believe we were more talking PVE though. Frankly, Resto staff does not come close to competing with Templar heals. That is the problem here.
You can't really expect there to be a huge drawback in PVP to running with a resto staff... If you chose to run resto staff, then you are limited to class abilities and resto abilities that's the drawback. That's frankly the same as any other weapon. What's the drawback to running 1H/S? Dual Wield? You get acces to the skill lines or benefits of the skill... Running Dual Wield and 1H/S get you access to one more piece of gear that could complete a set bonus.

My NB is able to cast it roughly 40 times every minute, I think I can spam it..

Oh god, please tell me how! If I could do this, I would never QQ about resto staff again. How do you manage to have enough magika?

Animation cancel healing ward
Max Magicka Reg (without glyphs)
Max cost reduction
Siphoning Attacks

With 1.6 and the new passives and no softcaps u won't need siphoning attacks anymore for nearly infinity casts of healing ward.

If you go for full Potion cool reduction, so three glyphs, u get one cast more every minute, but it's damn expensive.

DDuke · January 2015

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What they should do is separate Healing & Spell Damage, in order to make people choose whether they want to be defensive (tanky/more tanky as currently, but deal a lot less damage) or offensive (deal lots of dmg, but weak heals/shields), or a hybrid between the two.

This would be proper balance, instead of just shoving heals or dmg shields to everyone.

I like this suggestion too... but how would you scale things like funnel health?

On the same note, they would need to separate blocking/dodge roll from stam dps as well for the same reasons.

I don't think it's necessary actually (playing a stamina NB since beta).

It makes stamina gameplay unique, that you use your resource differently than magicka builds. If they changed that, it'd be one unique element less, unless they made stamina DPS gameplay-wise distinct in another way.

As for Funnel Health and similar skills... I think it could work if the heal scaled off from +Healing, and the damage scaled off from +Spell Damage.
There are probably more elegant solutions, but that's one.

e.chiesa73b16_ESO · January 2015

Soulac wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

You can't spam steadfast ward for very long... The cost is too great. I do understand why people run with self heals and damage shields in PVP... That seems kind of obvious. I believe we were more talking PVE though. Frankly, Resto staff does not come close to competing with Templar heals. That is the problem here.
You can't really expect there to be a huge drawback in PVP to running with a resto staff... If you chose to run resto staff, then you are limited to class abilities and resto abilities that's the drawback. That's frankly the same as any other weapon. What's the drawback to running 1H/S? Dual Wield? You get acces to the skill lines or benefits of the skill... Running Dual Wield and 1H/S get you access to one more piece of gear that could complete a set bonus.

My NB is able to cast it roughly 40 times every minute, I think I can spam it..

Oh god, please tell me how! If I could do this, I would never QQ about resto staff again. How do you manage to have enough magika?

Animation cancel healing ward
Max Magicka Reg (without glyphs)
Max cost reduction
Siphoning Attacks

With 1.6 and the new passives and no softcaps u won't need siphoning attacks anymore for nearly infinity casts of healing ward.

If you go for full Potion cool reduction, so three glyphs, u get one cast more every minute, but it's damn expensive.

And spamming HW means nothing as it lands always on the same player and the shield doesn't add up. At least in pve. In pvp, the damage is so widespread on the whole party that spamming HW can make sense, since players life keeps going up and down.

But I'm interested in the pve aspect, so I think you are slightly OT.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming & Shaming and Rude and Insulting Comments]

Armitas · January 2015

After all the focused complaints about resto staff and the news they were buffing it I thought for sure they understood the problem with it...then I saw the ward "buff".

Here is the problem....

Players play as if breath of life is there to heal them. They don't stack, they sit in the back corner and pew pew, or run around the boss panic dodging aoe circles. The real strength of the resto lies in cone and aoe based healing. This works amazing when the group is stacked. However when a boss uses stack busters all that goes away and you have to run fire-and-forget heals like healing ward because your group will die with you chasing them down for a blessing.

A Templar doesn't have to chase them around, they just pop breath of life and bam 3 people are nuke healed. This is why no one bothers with positioning. The non Templar can only cast bubbles that will nuke heal only if they don't burn the bubble. The bubble has no mitigation and is often stripped during boss aggression waves before the heal can be applied. 1k bubble and 1k health with mitigation are not equal. Do not nerf Templars, buff healing ward based on how people are playing the game. People are playing the game as if breath of life is there and ignoring their positioning; and in many cases positioning can't be helped.

Buffing it without breaking PvP is going to be tricky. The best solution that comes to my mind that won't break pvp is to break the bubble in sections. First give the upfront heal a bit of a buff, then have the bubble break down in stages over the 6 seconds providing heals at each stage. The heal for each stage goes up as it gets toward the last stage. If one of the stages is broken from damage the heal for that stage is lost.

TL/DR the problem with the resto staff is that it's power comes from stacking, and you can't always stack. When you can't you are stuck with healing ward and have to cast it 3 times to compare with breath of life, and the heal is often loss to a mitigationless bubble.

e.chiesa73b16_ESO · January 2015

Armitas wrote: »

After all the focused complaints about resto staff and the news they were buffing it I thought for sure they understood the problem with it...then I saw the ward "buff".

Here is the problem....

Players play as if breath of life is there to heal them. They don't stack, they sit in the back corner and pew pew, or run around the boss panic dodging aoe circles. The real strength of the resto lies in cone and aoe based healing. This works amazing when the group is stacked. However when a boss uses stack busters all that goes away and you have to run fire-and-forget heals like healing ward because your group will die with you chasing them down for a blessing.

A Templar doesn't have to chase them around, they just pop breath of life and bam 3 people are nuke healed. This is why no one bothers with positioning. The non Templar can only cast bubbles that will nuke heal only if they don't burn the bubble. The bubble has no mitigation and is often stripped during boss aggression waves before the heal can be applied. 1k bubble and 1k health with mitigation are not equal. Do not nerf Templars, buff healing ward based on how people are playing the game. People are playing the game as if breath of life is there and ignoring their positioning; and in many cases positioning can't be helped.

Buffing it without breaking PvP is going to be tricky. The best solution that comes to my mind that won't break pvp is to break the bubble in sections. First give the upfront heal a bit of a buff, then have the bubble break down in stages over the 6 seconds providing heals at each stage. The heal for each stage goes up as it gets toward the last stage. If one of the stages is broken from damage the heal for that stage is lost.

TL/DR the problem with the resto staff is that it's power comes from stacking, and you can't always stack. When you can't you are stuck with healing ward and have to cast it 3 times to compare with breath of life, and the heal is often loss to a mitigationless bubble.

I agree with all you said.
But I can't say I have really understood what you propose to fix HW

Armitas · January 2015

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

After all the focused complaints about resto staff and the news they were buffing it I thought for sure they understood the problem with it...then I saw the ward "buff".

Here is the problem....

Players play as if breath of life is there to heal them. They don't stack, they sit in the back corner and pew pew, or run around the boss panic dodging aoe circles. The real strength of the resto lies in cone and aoe based healing. This works amazing when the group is stacked. However when a boss uses stack busters all that goes away and you have to run fire-and-forget heals like healing ward because your group will die with you chasing them down for a blessing.

A Templar doesn't have to chase them around, they just pop breath of life and bam 3 people are nuke healed. This is why no one bothers with positioning. The non Templar can only cast bubbles that will nuke heal only if they don't burn the bubble. The bubble has no mitigation and is often stripped during boss aggression waves before the heal can be applied. 1k bubble and 1k health with mitigation are not equal. Do not nerf Templars, buff healing ward based on how people are playing the game. People are playing the game as if breath of life is there and ignoring their positioning; and in many cases positioning can't be helped.

Buffing it without breaking PvP is going to be tricky. The best solution that comes to my mind that won't break pvp is to break the bubble in sections. First give the upfront heal a bit of a buff, then have the bubble break down in stages over the 6 seconds providing heals at each stage. The heal for each stage goes up as it gets toward the last stage. If one of the stages is broken from damage the heal for that stage is lost.

TL/DR the problem with the resto staff is that it's power comes from stacking, and you can't always stack. When you can't you are stuck with healing ward and have to cast it 3 times to compare with breath of life, and the heal is often loss to a mitigationless bubble.

I agree with all you said.
But I can't say I have really understood what you propose to fix HW

It would work like this.
Lets say you cast it and based on the guys health he gets 1k shield and would receive a 1k heal once the shield ends. Lets take that 1k shield and break it into sections so that each second 1/6 of the shield will be consumed for a portion of the 1k heal that was determined at cast. Each time the shield consumption continues the portion of that 1k heal will go up. For example...

1st second - 1/6 of the shield goes away, 1.56% of the heal taken
2nd second - 1/6 of the shield goes away, 3.125% of the heal taken
3rd second - 1/6 of the shield goes away, 6.25% of the heal taken
4th second - 1/6 of the shield goes away, 12.5% of the heal taken
5th second - 1/6 of the shield goes away, 25% of the heal taken
6th second - 1/6 of the shield goes away, 50% of the heal taken

Now if 2/6 of the shield was also lost to damage your heal will only reach 12.5% of the 1k heal. So the big difference here compared to the original skill is that you are taking that big heal at the end of the 6 seconds and sprinkling it in parts over the whole 6 seconds.

Templars are balanced for having breath of life but the other classes may not be in pvp. This is why I'm taking such a restrictive approach at fixing healing ward. This way you can still reduce the heal in pvp by breaking shield sections while giving it a buff in pve as the shield sections would break only by circumstance in a boss fight. Having some of that heal come forward gives a lot more protection between circumstances.

ZOS_AlexD · January 2015

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Joy_Division · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

As someone who has played this game longer than you, I feel I have a slight bit more insight into how combat balance is in PvP and how this game works.

Buffing restoration staff and/or dmg shields/heals in general without giving them drawback would only further harm the (currently almost non-existent) build diversity in PvP, so I feel it is relevant to point out that buffing it is probably not a good idea.

I don't think you realize that PvP is not the only component of the game...

Bouvin · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

9/10 NBs are already running with a resto staff, give it a break.

Well ya, because Nightblades don't get any damage shields.