Should ZoS get rid of Veteran Ranks?

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

No logical reason are you kidding. There is no logical reason to HAVE vet ranks. Make 50 max so its about player skill and choice, not about endless grinding to play multiple classes.
The only reason I could possibly imagine to support keeping them is you have one class and never want to level another and want a bigger gap between yourself and new toons.

DeLindsay · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

Now where did I put my beating a dead Horse picture. OP, there's a search feature up there in the top right section of the forums for your convenience

YstradClud · January 2015

No, Its fine how they are, and i want to see Vet 16 soon.

The champion system in a nutshell.

◾Veteran Points will be gone and turned into regular experience.
◾Any experience gained after veteran ranks will be converted to champion points, which can then be used for various different passives, such as critical hit or spell defense.
◾Unlocking champion ranks will also unlock them for any other characters on your account.
◾After a champion rank has been unlocked, you’ll be able to spend the champion points on useful passives individually on your alts.
◾This gives an incentive to keep on developing your veteran rank characters, because not only will your veteran rank character become more powerful, your other characters will also be able to benefit from champion points.
◾You’ll only be able to gain champion points after level 50.
◾Champion System will also include “seasons” with season specific champion gear, which will be hard to acquire. Champion gear will have no level requirement, so it looks like it could be ESO’s take on heirlooms.

I don't see anything about veteran ranks being removed.

Alphashado · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9003/The-Champion-System-An-Entirely-New-Game-Design.html

What is the Champion System?

Paul Sage: Paraphrased: "It’s a horizontal progression system. As it stands right now, once you hit level 50, you begin the insanely mundane grind to Veteran Rank 14. With this new system there will be no more level grind. You aren’t forced to do the 50+/50++ zones, or grind out the Veteran ranks in a Craglorn XP grind.

This system is designed to put players on a much more level playing field yet still allowing those who dedicated way too much time to the game (myself included) to still have a slight advantage over someone who isn’t as veteran.

This new system will be released in phases (four in total). We’re currently in Phase 1, and Phase 4 will be the complete removal of the Veteran Rank system. There will be an overlap between the Veteran Rank system and the Champion System."

Darkintellect · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

I really don't know why there's a poll, this "if" scenario needs to be put to rest...

Here's an interview with Gameplay Designer Joe Blackburn of Zenimax Online Studios.

http://deltiasgaming.com/2014/12/23/interview-zenimax-patch-1-6/

Here are the snip-its...

tplink3r1 · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

"Champion Points" is MUCH better progression system.

goldnugget · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

yea they have already said they wont remove it for 6+ months. this is the perfect opportunity for them to introduce 20%, 50%, 100%, 200% xp boosts into the cash shop so you can skip this incredibly long grind for only $20. theyve already confirmed this will be the case. this way they spend far less time and gain far more money till they finally decide to remove it 6+ months from now.

YstradClud · January 2015

No, Its fine how they are, and i want to see Vet 16 soon.

Alphashado wrote: »

This new system will be released in phases (four in total). We’re currently in Phase 1, and Phase 4 will be the complete removal of the Veteran Rank system. There will be an overlap between the Veteran Rank system and the Champion System."[/i]

Ugh. Then why is this even a topic? Paul Sage has said they are going so they are going regardless of what we think..

Alphashado · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

This new system will be released in phases (four in total). We’re currently in Phase 1, and Phase 4 will be the complete removal of the Veteran Rank system. There will be an overlap between the Veteran Rank system and the Champion System."[/i]

Ugh. Then why is this even a topic? Paul Sage has said they are going so they are going regardless of what we think..

Because in light of the B2P bombshell, many of us are wondering if it's still going to happen. And if so, when. There are many new members to this community that weren't around when much of this stuff was announced.

Here is another source: http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/12/champion-system-qa-pt1/

Darkintellect · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

I love the Champion system. My first experience with it was in 2000 when Everquest created Alternate Advancement points colloquially named AA points.

It allowed an amazing advancement into your character with more abilities and customizations than your traditional leveling system and unlike the traditional leveling system, you didn't need as much rebalancing and scaling of content to match.

However, the modern Champion System in ESO is far better in that it allows for more specialization whereas with AA's it was more of an (I gotta get them all) approach.

Blatantly put, simply adding levels just adds a treadmill without any real in depth approach to your character or ways to focus more on it's role. Simply adding more vet levels is a tired system and leads to an overly simplistic system that is uniquely difficult to balance and modify.

YstradClud · January 2015

No, Its fine how they are, and i want to see Vet 16 soon.

Alphashado wrote: »

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

Ugh. Then why is this even a topic? Paul Sage has said they are going so they are going regardless of what we think..

Because in light of the B2P bombshell, many of us are wondering if it's still going to happen. And if so, when. There are many new members to this community that weren't around when much of this stuff was announced.

I would like to think you should be able to trust in the words of the games creative director. If he starts going back on statements he has made publically then I wouldn't hold out much hope of this game being competitive under any system.

technohic · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

Ugh. Then why is this even a topic? Paul Sage has said they are going so they are going regardless of what we think..

Because in light of the B2P bombshell, many of us are wondering if it's still going to happen. And if so, when. There are many new members to this community that weren't around when much of this stuff was announced.

I would like to think you should be able to trust in the words of the games creative director. If he starts going back on statements he has made publically then I wouldn't hold out much hope of this game being competitive under any system.

This comment is either very ironic you said that out of innocence, or you are the opposite and are totally trolling the doomsayers.

Sirlacker · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

Get rid of veteran levels.
Why?
Because it'll open up Cadwells Silver/Gold to everyone at level 50, and the current vet zones won't be empty as anyone at level 50 can jump in and have fun and help out.

90% of the people I know followed the story and took their time with the their faction zones.
25% people I know took their time and followed the story with Cadwells Silver.
1% of the people I know took their time and follow the story with Cadwells Gold.

It just becomes a grind to max your level in order to be leveled up enough to compete for speed runs in trials, more efficiently farm gear etc. By removing them, people will hit max level after their first starting zone and they wont feel like it's just a grind because it won't be. You'll already be maxed out, you'll be following another factions quests for gold/storyline with the added bonus of CP. And if they implement it correctly, you should be getting the same amount of CP from quests and you should dungeons which would mean you can switch between the two when as you feel, no more necessity to grinding along wanting to pull your hair out.

YstradClud · January 2015

No, Its fine how they are, and i want to see Vet 16 soon.

technohic wrote: »

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

I would like to think you should be able to trust in the words of the games creative director. If he starts going back on statements he has made publically then I wouldn't hold out much hope of this game being competitive under any system.

This comment is either very ironic you said that out of innocence, or you are the opposite and are totally trolling the doomsayers.

Believe me I have better things to do than troll internet forums I honestly did not understand the champions system neither had I heard anything Paul Sage had said about it before posting in this thread.

After reading more into it I tend to agree that they may need to take the game in a different direction at this time but I am just saying that at launch I enjoyed the veteran system as I did not have to make an alt on each faction to experience their zones and the veteran zones where free of spam bots and overcrowded spawns.

Alphashado · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

Ugh. Then why is this even a topic? Paul Sage has said they are going so they are going regardless of what we think..

Because in light of the B2P bombshell, many of us are wondering if it's still going to happen. And if so, when. There are many new members to this community that weren't around when much of this stuff was announced.

I would like to think you should be able to trust in the words of the games creative director. If he starts going back on statements he has made publically then I wouldn't hold out much hope of this game being competitive under any system.

I'm guessing/hoping you are new

There was a time when I would have agreed with you. And it wasn't that long ago.

EsORising · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

They should of got rid of VR about 6 months of ago, like a bad toupee. Then we probably wouldnt be in this B2P on the way to F2P situation. VR is the proverbial carrot for the donkey or a way keep people grinding and subbing but never achieving their goal. Not a good way to treat subscribers. I think half the server rage quit because "AINT NO ONE GOT TIME FOR DAT".

They need to come up with a system to reward players with points for achievements instead. Like champion point for completing a dungeon or skill point for exploring all of a zone. At least it feels like a reward for something instead of a slap in the face

before asking for 14.99 a month.

Lied · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

Can't wait for them to be removed, tho I guess when DLCs start rolling out it won't matter much due to scaling.

kieso · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

Clicked yes because there no option for F*&KYES!

and I got two vr 14's, lets that one sink in.

Iluvrien · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

Yes. Kill veteran ranks. Kill them with fire.

I hated that, given my rather limited play-time, I felt I had to quest in enemy factions just so that I could explore the whole game after beating Molag Bal. At that point my character should have been able to go anywhere he wished (without getting instantly munched while trying to pick up a crafting survey in Craglorn for example). If he decided to help the townsfolk in another zone or faction because there was an influx of marauding giants? All well and good but this should never have been the expectation from designers... especially considering that people may actually have strong ties to the faction they selected.

Flattening the level requirements to 50 is a good start. I remember someone, possibly Paul Sage, mentioning that there would be a balancing factor (such as total CP) in new content. If that is indeed true and comes to pass then that is less pleasing.

EsORising · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

xCHEMISTx wrote: »

I would like to think you should be able to trust in the words of the games creative director. If he starts going back on statements he has made publically then I wouldn't hold out much hope of this game being competitive under any system.

This comment is either very ironic you said that out of innocence, or you are the opposite and are totally trolling the doomsayers.

Believe me I have better things to do than troll internet forums I honestly did not understand the champions system neither had I heard anything Paul Sage had said about it before posting in this thread.

After reading more into it I tend to agree that they may need to take the game in a different direction at this time but I am just saying that at launch I enjoyed the veteran system as I did not have to make an alt on each faction to experience their zones and the veteran zones where free of spam bots and overcrowded spawns.

DId you enjoy the fact there was not a single reward for each VR level or the fact it took 10x longer to get 1 level for VR. Just kidding but seriously, i wish they would of gave something.. grinding a VR level without a new skill makes me want to poke my eyes out. Your a lot more patient than most. I refuse to grind untill i get something for it... like champion points.

EsORising · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

DId all of cadwells starting at VR3 with 90%... got to VR6 after doing all 3 zones 2+ weeks later, and got a stupid +10 hp regen necklace i sold for 40g to the merchants.. Ya VR is great. Maybe if i had 8hrs a day to play and no job go to in the morning i would be part of the 18% that thinks VR is great. Not saying those guys don't have jobs but they certainly have a lot of time.

Iluvrien · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

EsORising wrote: »

DId you enjoy the fact there was not a single reward for each VR level or the fact it took 10x longer to get 1 level for VR. Just kidding but seriously, i wish they would of gave something.. grinding a VR level without a new skill makes me want to poke my eyes out. Your a lot more patient than most. I refuse to grind untill i get something for it... like champion points.

I can't speak for @xCHEMISTx but I view levels as more of an inconvenience than a driving mechanism, i.e. a formalism that exists in games to gate areas, provide a sense of accomplishment and make players of similar degrees of stat/equipment progress easier to identify.

As such, the reason why I play is not to gain levels (so the grind at VR isn't a problem for me though I know it was to many) but to experience the fabric of the world itself either on my own or with guild/group-mates. If @xCHEMISTx is of similar mind it might explain why the lack of rewards at VR wasn't so much of a problem for them.

YstradClud · January 2015

No, Its fine how they are, and i want to see Vet 16 soon.

EsORising wrote: »

DId you enjoy the fact there was not a single reward for each VR level or the fact it took 10x longer to get 1 level for VR. Just kidding but seriously, i wish they would of gave something.. grinding a VR level without a new skill makes me want to poke my eyes out. Your a lot more patient than most. I refuse to grind untill i get something for it... like champion points.

Most mmos are all about the rewards, gear and progression. One of the things I like about ESO is it isn't all about that. It is a huge detailed open world with 100s of hours worth of story and lore. Its as much a rpg as it is an mmo. Mmo players are just so use to grinding for loot and gear they seem to overlook all that.

leona · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

VR content also totally busts the story. I was impressed by what a great job the story and the war in Cyrodiil did of making me feel extremely loyal to my faction... and now I'm running errands for Queen Ayrenn and fighting my own soldiers?
It also kills what would have been an amazing system for alts. I'd have loved to play different alts through new content in different factions, but playing through all of the areas the first time takes that away.

Mariiana · January 2015

I wanted to start this poll just to see what other people besides my guildies thought about the topic, not to try to persuade the devs.

But most of what i seen here simply doesn't make sense. i mean , your'e entitled to your own opinion. but most of what i seen was " yes get rid of vet ranks, the champion system is a much better progression system".....but my point is , why cant the champion system exist without removing vet ranks?

Alphashado · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

Mariiana wrote: »

I wanted to start this poll just to see what other people besides my guildies thought about the topic, not to try to persuade the devs.

But most of what i seen here simply doesn't make sense. i mean , your'e entitled to your own opinion. but most of what i seen was " yes get rid of vet ranks, the champion system is a much better progression system".....but my point is , why cant the champion system exist without removing vet ranks?

People do not like the grind. 1-50 is great. Good storytelling, nice progression.
You beat the bad guy.... then realize you are literally only 1/3 of the way to level cap. You are only 1/3 of the way towards being competitive in AvA. You are only 1/3 of the way towards being able to participate in Trials or Arena. And why? For what good reason? To experience the content?

Well you can do that with the champion system and w/o Vet Ranks. You can explore the world to your heart's content and get rewarded for doing so by gaining Champion points along the way.

Vet Ranks are no longer needed. Or wanted. They serve no purpose other than a needless, mandatory time sink that makes the journey from 1-50 absolutely trivial.

Let's put it into perspective:

Woot, I just finished DC, Beat Molag Bal, and I am now a fancy pants VR player. I think I will go join my friends in AvA. - You try and get absolutely wrecked by VR 14 players. So you say ahh well, I will try some endgame stuff like Arena or Trials - Oh wait. you can't do this because you would severely gimp your group by trying this under VR12. Sigh, ok guess I will level up some.

Woot, same character just completed the ENTIRE AD storyline and AD zones. Now you are VR5. Wait, still getting Pwned in AvA and still unwelcome in Trials or Arena.
Sigh, guess I will level up some.

Woot, same character just completed the ENTIRE EP storyline and EP zones. You have now played exactly 3x the content, completed every ounce of factional questing, beat all three factional enemies (or wait, weren't they your allies? Now you are confused about this), and you are VR10. Crap, still struggling to find a fair fight in AvA, still unwelcome in Trials, still unwelcome in Arena. Well WTF!
Guess I'll go do Craglorn now. Problem is Craglorn is all group content. Can't be solo'd. Now you are stuck in limbo. So in between finding friends and pugs to group with in Craglorn, you find a few mobs to farm/grind for XP.

Woot, you are now VR14. You can AvA on equal ground, you can do Trials, you can do arena, you are FINALLY competitive at endgame.

Now you think you would like to try a different class at end game.
Oh wait.
Holy crap.
I gotta do ALL THAT again?

Hope that answers your question.

Joejudas · January 2015

How about a " Dont care either way option " cause I don't. I'll play either way.

Joejudas · January 2015

Guppet wrote: »

The removal of VR is to remove the need to grind those levels out. The whole having to carry on levelling for another 2 factions worth of content, after beating the end bad guy, felt utterly tacked on and did not feel natural.

People saying to change the level cap to 64, conveniently ignore what a disaster for the game VR levels were. Id be surprised if a single person that thought that was not VR14 and wanted to force everyone to go through what they did.

The vast majority of people who hit VR levels quit before they reached the cap (definitely the case in my guild). It damn near killed the game. Stop clinging to it, just because you persevered.

Removing VR lets players join endgame in a third of the time that they previously needed to put in. How is increasing the pool of players that can take part in end game anything other than a good thing?

I don't agree....I put in the time...and no everyone doesn't get a trophy

Leeric · January 2015

Yes, get rid of veteran ranks

Shouldn't have been implemented in this first place

Mariiana · January 2015

Alphashado wrote: »

Mariiana wrote: »

I wanted to start this poll just to see what other people besides my guildies thought about the topic, not to try to persuade the devs.

But most of what i seen here simply doesn't make sense. i mean , your'e entitled to your own opinion. but most of what i seen was " yes get rid of vet ranks, the champion system is a much better progression system".....but my point is , why cant the champion system exist without removing vet ranks?

People do not like the grind. 1-50 is great. Good storytelling, nice progression.
You beat the bad guy.... then realize you are literally only 1/3 of the way to level cap. You are only 1/3 of the way towards being competitive in AvA. You are only 1/3 of the way towards being able to participate in Trials or Arena. And why? For what good reason? To experience the content?

Well you can do that with the champion system and w/o Vet Ranks. You can explore the world to your heart's content and get rewarded for doing so by gaining Champion points along the way.

Vet Ranks are no longer needed. Or wanted. They serve no purpose other than a needless, mandatory time sink that makes the journey from 1-50 absolutely trivial.

Let's put it into perspective:

Woot, I just finished DC, Beat Molag Bal, and I am now a fancy pants VR player. I think I will go join my friends in AvA. - You try and get absolutely wrecked by VR 14 players. So you say ahh well, I will try some endgame stuff like Arena or Trials - Oh wait. you can't do this because you would severely gimp your group by trying this under VR12. Sigh, ok guess I will level up some.

Woot, same character just completed the ENTIRE AD storyline and AD zones. Now you are VR5. Wait, still getting Pwned in AvA and still unwelcome in Trials or Arena.
Sigh, guess I will level up some.

Woot, same character just completed the ENTIRE EP storyline and EP zones. You have now played exactly 3x the content, completed every ounce of factional questing, beat all three factional enemies (or wait, weren't they your allies? Now you are confused about this), and you are VR10. Crap, still struggling to find a fair fight in AvA, still unwelcome in Trials, still unwelcome in Arena. Well WTF!
Guess I'll go do Craglorn now. Problem is Craglorn is all group content. Can't be solo'd. Now you are stuck in limbo. So in between finding friends and pugs to group with in Craglorn, you find a few mobs to farm/grind for XP.

Woot, you are now VR14. You can AvA on equal ground, you can do Trials, you can do arena, you are FINALLY competitive at endgame.

Now you think you would like to try a different class at end game.
Oh wait.
Holy crap.
I gotta do ALL THAT again?

Hope that answers your question.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but sit back for a minute and imagine trying to do Sanctum or DSA with someone who just hit ,what would be today's, lvl50/vet1....seems like it would be...interesting...to say the least