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At 20$ a box, is there a real difference between F2P and B2P?
Gyudan
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F2P: free to play - you download the game for free and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
B2P: buy to play - you pay a certain amount of money for the box and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
Every time someone comes up with another news flash saying "ESO goes F2P", there's always a discussion about how the game is actually B2P and how it is a huge difference. The initial payment would act as a floodgate and prevent the game from being invaded by trolls, griefers and bots.
If the price of the game was the same as when it launched (60-80$), they would be 100% correct. However, due to numerous sales (and this has been going on for months, it's not new), the box price has dropped a lot, -50% at least, and that's still with the 30 days subscription included.
Do you think the current box prices maintain the difference between F2P and B2P?
Edited by Gyudan on January 25, 2015 9:42AM B2P: buy to play - you pay a certain amount of money for the box and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
Every time someone comes up with another news flash saying "ESO goes F2P", there's always a discussion about how the game is actually B2P and how it is a huge difference. The initial payment would act as a floodgate and prevent the game from being invaded by trolls, griefers and bots.
If the price of the game was the same as when it launched (60-80$), they would be 100% correct. However, due to numerous sales (and this has been going on for months, it's not new), the box price has dropped a lot, -50% at least, and that's still with the 30 days subscription included.
Do you think the current box prices maintain the difference between F2P and B2P?
Wololo.
12
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ZigoSid✭✭✭✭Yes even 10$ can be enough to call it a B2P for me.
But don't worry with Tamriel Unlimited and console versions the price will rise again
Edited by ZigoSid on January 25, 2015 10:00AM3 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭Where is the link to the price of $20.00 ?
The game is still up there.. And last I heard froma GS employee the game is being sold for $60.00 on console this summer when I went to preorder.Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington3 -
kevlarto_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not free, so yes, and there are some people that want an entirely free game, they don't want to pay anything for the client and they would never spend a dime in game in the first place, these freeloaders want everything given to them, so yes 20 bucks will be a deterrent to the freeloader type player.
But yes over all 20 bucks is not much of a separator for the average player.5 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »Where is the link to the price of $20.00 ?
The game is still up there.. And last I heard froma GS employee the game is being sold for $60.00 on console this summer when I went to preorder.
I'm not sure if adding a link here would break the ToS, but I'm not going to try.
It was easy enough to find it on third party sites through a 30 seconds search on Google and there have been Steam sales around that price as well.Edited by Gyudan on January 25, 2015 10:10AMWololo.1 -
Nathan✭As long as they sell the game for money TESO has to be consodered a B2P game. When (if) they decide to make it free to downaload it will switch to F2P. Don't think the price will change the model.0 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »Where is the link to the price of $20.00 ?
The game is still up there.. And last I heard froma GS employee the game is being sold for $60.00 on console this summer when I went to preorder.
I'm not sure if adding a link here would break the ToS, but I'm not going to try.
It was easy enough to find it on third party sites through a 30 seconds search on Google and there have been Steam sales around that price as well.
Yes but the Console is what I am asking you.. The xbone/ps4 versions are preordering at $60.00
I think we all know you can get lucky and find the PC version on sale at times.. I have seen it at Walmart for $10.00 last fall.
Edited by Funkopotamus on January 25, 2015 10:20AMAnything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington0 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
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No, I haven't seen any lower prices for console versions.Funkopotamus wrote: »Funkopotamus wrote: »Where is the link to the price of $20.00 ?
The game is still up there.. And last I heard froma GS employee the game is being sold for $60.00 on console this summer when I went to preorder.
I'm not sure if adding a link here would break the ToS, but I'm not going to try.
It was easy enough to find it on third party sites through a 30 seconds search on Google and there have been Steam sales around that price as well.
Yes but the Console is what I am asking you.. The xbone/ps4 versions are preordering at $60.00
I think this issue is mostly true for PC players who will have to face a change in server population. The console crowd should be pretty much the same as in any other game.Wololo.0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"At 20$ a box, is there a real difference between F2P and B2P?"
Not really, no. And they know it.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!9 -
The only difference between B2P and F2P is you have to buy the game. That's it, fundamentally they are the same model.4 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭99.9% of people bought it for €60 anyway. Why? Because people trust only official sources.
With the launch of Tamriel Unlimited I expect physical boxes to be replaced anyway. So it will take months, perhaps even years for the prices to drop.Edited by Bloodfang on January 25, 2015 1:56PM0 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭F2P I can create 100 accounts for free.
100 accounts for b2p game for $20 will cost me 2 grand. Big difference.NijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.7 -
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danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It can be a disincentive to getting banned, or participating in activities that can get you banned.
The worst of the f2p freeloaders are so cheap that even $20 will make them hesitate. The proof is that you will hear them complain that it is not completely free, even now when it only costs $20.
Like locking your door, it is just a deterrent, not foolproof.jpatek0501ub17_ESO wrote: »
It is, but only if the company is aggressive at banning accounts quickly. It definitely has an affect on Gold Spamming in chat, since that is usually a quick ban.
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Carina✭✭F2P: free to play - you download the game for free and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
B2P: buy to play - you pay a certain amount of money for the box and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
Every time someone comes up with another news flash saying "ESO goes F2P", there's always a discussion about how the game is actually B2P and how it is a huge difference. The initial payment would act as a floodgate and prevent the game from being invaded by trolls, griefers and bots.
If the price of the game was the same as when it launched (60-80$), they would be 100% correct. However, due to numerous sales (and this has been going on for months, it's not new), the box price has dropped a lot, -50% at least, and that's still with the 30 days subscription included.
Do you think the current box prices maintain the difference between F2P and B2P?
As long as there is that requirement for an initial purchase to have entry to the game, then yes, by definition it makes the game B2P not F2P. I've seen mostly the box price for PC's/Mac's being on sale. Digital prices have remained the same, mostly.0 -
Carina✭✭danno816_ESO wrote: »It can be a disincentive to getting banned, or participating in activities that can get you banned.
The worst of the f2p freeloaders are so cheap that even $20 will make them hesitate. The proof is that you will hear them complain that it is not completely free, even now when it only costs $20.
Like locking your door, it is just a deterrent, not foolproof.jpatek0501ub17_ESO wrote: »
It is, but only if the company is aggressive at banning accounts quickly. It definitely has an affect on Gold Spamming in chat, since that is usually a quick ban.
I've played WoW for about 8 years, which requires a paid subscription. We frequently see gold sellers in Trade chat. It's not so much the business model that determines how many gold sellers will affect the game. It really depends on how aggressive the company is in banning the gold sellers, like you said.3 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭F2P: free to play - you download the game for free and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
B2P: buy to play - you pay a certain amount of money for the box and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
Every time someone comes up with another news flash saying "ESO goes F2P", there's always a discussion about how the game is actually B2P and how it is a huge difference. The initial payment would act as a floodgate and prevent the game from being invaded by trolls, griefers and bots.
If the price of the game was the same as when it launched (60-80$), they would be 100% correct. However, due to numerous sales (and this has been going on for months, it's not new), the box price has dropped a lot, -50% at least, and that's still with the 30 days subscription included.
Do you think the current box prices maintain the difference between F2P and B2P?
The initial purchase puts off some overentitled people, but apart from that, no, they both operate of the same principles, revolving primarily on getting us to spend in the cash shop.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule1 -
Carina✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »F2P: free to play - you download the game for free and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
B2P: buy to play - you pay a certain amount of money for the box and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
Every time someone comes up with another news flash saying "ESO goes F2P", there's always a discussion about how the game is actually B2P and how it is a huge difference. The initial payment would act as a floodgate and prevent the game from being invaded by trolls, griefers and bots.
If the price of the game was the same as when it launched (60-80$), they would be 100% correct. However, due to numerous sales (and this has been going on for months, it's not new), the box price has dropped a lot, -50% at least, and that's still with the 30 days subscription included.
Do you think the current box prices maintain the difference between F2P and B2P?
The initial purchase puts off some overentitled people, but apart from that, no, they both operate of the same principles, revolving primarily on getting us to spend in the cash shop.
WoW, which requires a paid subscription, has had a cash shop for years.1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Meh.
The ESO boxes are discounted. Once they are gone, you won't be able to find them anymore.
They will be replaced by the Tamriel Unlimited boxes. I do not expect these to be discounted.
Buy now. Been saying that since December. I am sure that a lot of these boxes are being grabbed up by the gold sellers right now, so when they are gone, you will have to wait until Tamriel Unlimited comes out.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lol. yea... a $20 difference.
But really, no there's not. ZOS is pushing the difference between B2P and F2P because they don't want to look like they COMPLETELY sold out this early.
Also, it provides them the opportunity to go F2P later and launch for a THIRD time with a big announcement:
"We've listened to our players and we are pleased to announced that we are now able to give them exactly what they want. We've removed all pay-walls to access to get into ESO. Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited: Uprising of the Factions will give players the core Elder Scrolls Online experience at no up front cost so that any player that joins will get to play at no cost to them.
Additionally, because we have been listening to what players want, we will be introducing Champion Trainers. These in game NPCs will allow players to pay 1000 Crowns to immediately advance to the next level. Once at level 50 they will offer 10 CP for the same 1000 Crowns.
We are making these changes because this is what you have told us you want and we believe this new model will enable us to make the ESO that we have always envisioned."Edited by Gidorick on January 25, 2015 3:33PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!14 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭danno816_ESO wrote: »It can be a disincentive to getting banned, or participating in activities that can get you banned.
The worst of the f2p freeloaders are so cheap that even $20 will make them hesitate. The proof is that you will hear them complain that it is not completely free, even now when it only costs $20.
Like locking your door, it is just a deterrent, not foolproof.jpatek0501ub17_ESO wrote: »
It is, but only if the company is aggressive at banning accounts quickly. It definitely has an affect on Gold Spamming in chat, since that is usually a quick ban.
I've played WoW for about 8 years, which requires a paid subscription. We frequently see gold sellers in Trade chat. It's not so much the business model that determines how many gold sellers will affect the game. It really depends on how aggressive the company is in banning the gold sellers, like you said.
WoW's revenue and player base size will always ensure there are goldsellers in that game.
If you are a goldseller, which would you focus on if you had to buy a box. WoW or ESO? Always WoW.
It's like a virus author having to choose to spend their time writing for OSX (~5% market share) or Windows (~90%).2 -
Carina✭✭lol. yea... a $20 difference.
But really, no there's not. ZOS is pushing the difference between B2P and F2P because they don't want to look like they COMPLETELY sold out this early.
Also, it provides them the opportunity to go F2P later and launch for a THIRD time with a big announcement:
"We've listened to our players and we are pleased to announced that we are now able to give them exactly what they want. We've removed all pay-walls to access to get into ESO. Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited: Uprising of the Factions will give players the core Elder Scrolls Online experience at no up front cost so that any player that joins will get to play at no cost to them.
Additionally, because we have been listening to what players want, we will be introducing Champion Trainers. These in game NPCs will allow players to pay 1000 Crowns to immediately advance to the next level. Once at level 50 they will offer 10 CP for the same 1000 Crowns."
You are making assumptions. Unless you work directly for Zenimax, you cannot even presume to know what their business intentions are. Let's not assume the worst. Enjoy the game, and wait and see what happens. And, yes, there is a difference between F2P and B2P, by definition. Numerous potential buyers were put off by the monthly subscription and complained, so the B2P model (with an optional subscription) seems like a sensible alternative, especially since ESO will be launching on consoles within the next few months. Guild Wars 2 is strictly B2P with no subscription option, and it's highly successful.6 -
Arato✭✭✭✭✭
✭F2P: free to play - you download the game for free and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
B2P: buy to play - you pay a certain amount of money for the box and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
Every time someone comes up with another news flash saying "ESO goes F2P", there's always a discussion about how the game is actually B2P and how it is a huge difference. The initial payment would act as a floodgate and prevent the game from being invaded by trolls, griefers and bots.
If the price of the game was the same as when it launched (60-80$), they would be 100% correct. However, due to numerous sales (and this has been going on for months, it's not new), the box price has dropped a lot, -50% at least, and that's still with the 30 days subscription included.
Do you think the current box prices maintain the difference between F2P and B2P?
Yes, there is still an initial investment, enough that if someone is banned, they'll probably figure it's more hassle then its worth to buy another copy for $20 and troll again on a new account. F2P they'd just start trolling again after making a new free email and new free account in 5 minutes.
I have played many F2P and B2P and Subscription games and have also noticed that both Subscription and B2P games (even as low as $10) have warded away players from a certain south american third world country that tend to completely INFEST F2P MMO's and make them intolerable to play...
Also the most major difference is that in F2P games they let you download a CRIPPLED version of the game, usually with restrictions on chatting, restrictions on in game currency, guild restrictions, UI restrictions, race and class restrictions, etc etc etc. Then they sell you unlocks to make the restrictions go away or offer a subscription to temporarily take away the crippling restrictions. Now I understand why F2P games kind of need to have those restrictions to make it harder on the gold spamming bots and gold farming bots, but as a person who just wants to play the game normally, it's so crippling that it just seems not worth bothering to try the game out.
ZOS is not going to be crippling the game. 1.6 containing the Justice System and Champion System are going to be sold intact.
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Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lol. yea... a $20 difference.
But really, no there's not. ZOS is pushing the difference between B2P and F2P because they don't want to look like they COMPLETELY sold out this early.
Also, it provides them the opportunity to go F2P later and launch for a THIRD time with a big announcement:
"We've listened to our players and we are pleased to announced that we are now able to give them exactly what they want. We've removed all pay-walls to access to get into ESO. Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited: Uprising of the Factions will give players the core Elder Scrolls Online experience at no up front cost so that any player that joins will get to play at no cost to them.
Additionally, because we have been listening to what players want, we will be introducing Champion Trainers. These in game NPCs will allow players to pay 1000 Crowns to immediately advance to the next level. Once at level 50 they will offer 10 CP for the same 1000 Crowns."
You are making assumptions. Unless you work directly for Zenimax, you cannot even presume to know what their business intentions are. Let's not assume the worst. Enjoy the game, and wait and see what happens. And, yes, there is a difference between F2P and B2P, by definition. Numerous potential buyers were put off by the monthly subscription and complained, so the B2P model (with an optional subscription) seems like a sensible alternative, especially since ESO will be launching on consoles within the next few months. Guild Wars 2 is strictly B2P with no subscription option, and it's highly successful.
sar·casm:
a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »F2P: free to play - you download the game for free and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
B2P: buy to play - you pay a certain amount of money for the box and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
Every time someone comes up with another news flash saying "ESO goes F2P", there's always a discussion about how the game is actually B2P and how it is a huge difference. The initial payment would act as a floodgate and prevent the game from being invaded by trolls, griefers and bots.
If the price of the game was the same as when it launched (60-80$), they would be 100% correct. However, due to numerous sales (and this has been going on for months, it's not new), the box price has dropped a lot, -50% at least, and that's still with the 30 days subscription included.
Do you think the current box prices maintain the difference between F2P and B2P?
The initial purchase puts off some overentitled people, but apart from that, no, they both operate of the same principles, revolving primarily on getting us to spend in the cash shop.
WoW, which requires a paid subscription, has had a cash shop for years.
OK, it doesn't diminish from my arguement that F2P and B2P are essentially the same. And they their business model is geared around the cash shop. I know they've said Cosmetic and nothing you can't get in game anyhow (I noticed they didn't actually say no gear), but they will be adding items with the intention of them being must have items.
Not sure what WoW Cash shop sells, and how much of it's revenue comes from that, so I can't say anything about it.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Funkopotamus wrote: »Where is the link to the price of $20.00 ?
The game is still up there.. And last I heard froma GS employee the game is being sold for $60.00 on console this summer when I went to preorder.
G2A has it for $11.59 USD. That includes Explorers Pack and 30 day subscription.
Where Steam has it for $59.99.
The Street price for ESO is fairly cheap, I don't know why but it is.0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The difference between b2p and f2p is simply a matter of willingness to discriminate against the poorest section of the population.
With b2p, you ensure that your playerbase has some level of income; you trade the f2p diversity and availability of new players for the reliability of individuals with some assured method of payment.
Instead of getting a community full of kids with no incomes, you get a community full of kids whose parents are willing to buy them things."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭$20 allows the player to keep the original game intact without a bunch of paywalls added to it. That is the difference between F2P and B2P. If it were F2P you would have to pay every time you go to a new zone from Tutorial zone to Craglorn.Edited by timidobserver on January 25, 2015 5:14PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)2 -
RedTalon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its enough to lure bots back though!
But still buy to play just not priceyEdited by RedTalon on January 25, 2015 5:15PM1 -
eisberg✭✭✭F2P: free to play - you download the game for free and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
B2P: buy to play - you pay a certain amount of money for the box and play as much as you want afterwards, without a subscription fee.
Every time someone comes up with another news flash saying "ESO goes F2P", there's always a discussion about how the game is actually B2P and how it is a huge difference. The initial payment would act as a floodgate and prevent the game from being invaded by trolls, griefers and bots.
If the price of the game was the same as when it launched (60-80$), they would be 100% correct. However, due to numerous sales (and this has been going on for months, it's not new), the box price has dropped a lot, -50% at least, and that's still with the 30 days subscription included.
Do you think the current box prices maintain the difference between F2P and B2P?
F2P vs B2P in most cases have a difference in the cash stores. B2P cash stores tend to be optional in order to progress, basically cosmetic and convenience, perhaps with some new expansions or mini expansions to buy. Where as F2P, the store becomes nearly required to required in order to progress.2 -
EsORising✭✭✭I think he means difference in community and not the fact that the game cost money. It weeds out people who just buy accounts to troll at least. GW2 was very different than f2p's but they already had a fanbase and still have to pay fullprice for the game. $20 is a big difference than $60 bucks.0