Only class for Raid: play a DK

Alcast · January 2015

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

killedbyping wrote: »

Making NB to go Stamina is not a waste since any DW/Bow build on NB or Sorc will provide around 200-300 dps more compared to Magicka build. Currently VoB is useless in terms of DPS and damage reduction are static, so there is no difference who are going to put that down.
Ofc if there are just 1 NB in party and you going for long fight when you would need that VoB more then once then ofc, that NB should go for Magicka build because of unfair current ultimate generation mechanics.
But when we speak of time trials it is all about DPS, not the utility. You dont need much of utility if you can burn down your target 2-3 times faster then group filled with NBs.
There is no way you do 1.7k sustained DPS on single target with ANY build and ANY class (by sustained i mean that fight should last for atleast couple of minutes) specialy on Mantikora and Serpent where you have to spend quite alot of time doing something that prevent you from dealing damage.
Also, there are nothing that can help NB's do more DPS on stamina builds compared to Sorc's or DK's.
2H only worth for Execute, DW and Bow have no synergy with any of NB skills besides stamina regen.
Literaly 0 skills that boost damage (haste dont rly work for stamina builds, coz when you spam channeling skills like Flury and Snipe, that 30% CD reduction on light attacks provide literaly 0 profit).
Mark Target are totaly useless since Legendary Armor Reduction Enchant on wepon reduce ALL of the armor that any mob or boss currently have.

There's so much wrong with this post that it's hard to even begin...

First, you say no build can do sustained 1.7k DPS on a long fight. Well, there is a video on Youtube of a fire DK DOT build that procs meteor doing 1.6k DPS over the entire 10 minutes of the Serpent fight. Yea, it's real.

Second, it seems like you have never played a Sorc. When comparing a Sorc stamina build to a NB stamina build, the NB build will always be able to get more DPS and be much better just because of the class synergy with weapons. Sorc stamina builds are weak because there is no synergy with stamina builds. You think Crit Surge will help? Well, when you are already softcapped, Crit Surging only adds 10 weapons damage. Big woop. NB is still much, much stronger.

VoB useless in terms of DPS? It's a really good DoT over 20 seconds at the cost of hitting one button.

That are the DPS numbers that you can approx get on Serpent fight:
DK: 1,6k
Sorc: 1,4k
NB: 1,6k
Temp: 1,3k

So please dont say DK is the only class that gets to 1.6k

xMovingTarget · January 2015

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

First, you say no build can do sustained 1.7k DPS on a long fight. Well, there is a video on Youtube of a fire DK DOT build that procs meteor doing 1.6k DPS over the entire 10 minutes of the Serpent fight. Yea, it's real.

I guess it was me

killedbyping · January 2015

xMovingTarget wrote: »

killedbyping wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

As for the 1.7K, I'll try to find the video when I'm @ home, that being said, DK can do 1,6 DPS and I'm sure can reach1,7K while killing Serpent in an optimal run but you got to AOE manticora I admit.

I always get very close to 1.7k at the Serpent with a fight duration of 500-600 secs. On my DK though. I mess up my rotation alot most of the times.

@killedbyping If you click that youtube link in my sig you find a video of 1646 DPS at the serpent(600+ seconds).

Its not pure AoE. Only times you do a bit AoE is when Manticora is there. Manti dies quick anyways. Without Manti, DPS is stable at near 1.6k. DPS wise it doesnt do much.

Only thing that little AoE pahses do is make up for the Orb Phase. where you dont do any damage at all
Lucky Meteor proccs do the rest.

Actualy, i saw 1450 dps max on single target. With AOE it does go up to 1.6k but... it is aoe, im talking about pure single target.
Well, nvm, i guess we fail to understand each other.

P.S. This video just prove how awsome DK are and YES, no other class can be as good as that at the moment. But i thought we were trying to prove the opposite

No need to prove the obvious. But dont worry. Update 6 will fix it. DK will be in line. Without the ability to pull that much standarts DKs arnt that much. The Standart is what makes us that strong.

Hopefully you all will remember that DKs that pulled awesome DPS when your damage isnt enough to kill a boss in 1.6 :P

I never said i dont like that DK are the best calss in game and able to do top dmg with little effort. Im not happy with upcoming nerf even thou i never heard of that Stardard nerf before. If you read my posts you could see that im actualy playing DK aswell, even thou it is not my main.
Sad part is that DK are not my main because of the only one reason - Achievements are not account wide and i'm too lazy to earn them all again.
If they make achivements account wide, i would probably forget about my NB in few weeks and will only use it as crafting mule.

killedbyping · January 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

florian.billeb16_ESO wrote: »

and now the new ironic question: why they are so many DK ?
and now the ironic response: because of the good DPS and ability for raid when you compare to other class.

Pretty much from launch people have been saying that DK is the best class (although there was a time when people were saying DK and Sorc were tied for best class). As a result of that, over the time since launch a lot of people have created DKs and put time into leveling them. I think the class balance has changed a lot over the time that ESO has been out (most notably NB went from being terrible to being quite capable if played right), but even if DK is no longer the clear #1 out of the classes (and I'm not saying DK is or isn't the most powerful class right now), because so many people have put so much time into DK characters, you have to expect that the DK population will still be significantly higher than the population of other classes for some time through shear inertia.

I think that main point of most counter posts was that - Most players of top PVE/PVP guilds infact do have more then just DK in their character selection screen. Still they choose DK for end game content.
Thats pretty much negate all the discussion's and give clear answer to all the questions.

Alcast · January 2015

killedbyping wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

killedbyping wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

As for the 1.7K, I'll try to find the video when I'm @ home, that being said, DK can do 1,6 DPS and I'm sure can reach1,7K while killing Serpent in an optimal run but you got to AOE manticora I admit.

I always get very close to 1.7k at the Serpent with a fight duration of 500-600 secs. On my DK though. I mess up my rotation alot most of the times.

@killedbyping If you click that youtube link in my sig you find a video of 1646 DPS at the serpent(600+ seconds).

Its not pure AoE. Only times you do a bit AoE is when Manticora is there. Manti dies quick anyways. Without Manti, DPS is stable at near 1.6k. DPS wise it doesnt do much.

Only thing that little AoE pahses do is make up for the Orb Phase. where you dont do any damage at all
Lucky Meteor proccs do the rest.

Actualy, i saw 1450 dps max on single target. With AOE it does go up to 1.6k but... it is aoe, im talking about pure single target.
Well, nvm, i guess we fail to understand each other.

P.S. This video just prove how awsome DK are and YES, no other class can be as good as that at the moment. But i thought we were trying to prove the opposite

No need to prove the obvious. But dont worry. Update 6 will fix it. DK will be in line. Without the ability to pull that much standarts DKs arnt that much. The Standart is what makes us that strong.

Hopefully you all will remember that DKs that pulled awesome DPS when your damage isnt enough to kill a boss in 1.6 :P

I never said i dont like that DK are the best calss in game and able to do top dmg with little effort. Im not happy with upcoming nerf even thou i never heard of that Stardard nerf before. If you read my posts you could see that im actualy playing DK aswell, even thou it is not my main.
Sad part is that DK are not my main because of the only one reason - Achievements are not account wide and i'm too lazy to earn them all again.
If they make achivements account wide, i would probably forget about my NB in few weeks and will only use it as crafting mule.

Fyi, NBs have higher single target dps than DKs. Better stay on your NB.

pppontus · January 2015

Edit: nvm, no reason to argue..

I just think it's interesting that the people who don't think that there's a good reason to stack DKs, are the ones who have world record times (stacked with DKs). I'm sure some of you guys have other characters, if DKs are so bad.

I've also ran raids stacked with DKs, but I admit it's because they are superior to all the other classes. 2K on Valariel? 17K AOE on Trolls? Yep, bring a DK.

It won't hurt anyone to admit that they are (at least slightly) better at everything they do, they even have a group oriented ultimate (corrosive armor)

We can hope we can have a good mix of classes instead in the future.

pppontus · January 2015

-

TehMagnus · January 2015

pppontus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Here's to hoping it's changed in U6. However there's a good chance that just means there is a new class that has a higher potential DPS than all the others. ^^

I don't think the explanation is as simple as that many people play a DK, they do have fantastic synergies between their skills, access to several awesome DOTs, Valkyn Skoria, their damage is fire which is the highest DPS element (+that many mobs are inherently weak to) and Battle Roar (which with current ulti regen is really strong). Almost everyone I see is rerolling DKs.

Sadly I don't even like playing my DK $:\$

so I rerolled a Stam NB to at least get somewhere close although not even close to being comparable in SO trash pulls. No 15K aoe dps on Trolls there. ^^

Pro DK gets very good DPS> Noob NB/Temp/Sorc sees that> "Omfg, I have to reroll DK so i can get same DPS" = ends up with same dps as with his NB/Temp/Sorc because he is a noob. End of story

95% of the players are noobs who do NOT try(or do not care) to get the best out of their class although there are ways of doing so. Instead they reroll DK and think they will do better dps because they have seen DKs pulling good numbers. Any *** class can pull 1,2k+ single target. (And yes you are forced into a specific build, dont tell me *** about build diversity, i do not care)
The only place where DKs are superior is AOE. It is because they have more AOE abilities to spam than other classes do.

I usually link ppl who ask for help this thread > tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-dps-build-compilation-by-class-and-weapon-type-1-5/

Yes, I can pull 1,2K in my sleep with all my characters (except the templar tank). The difference is mostly in (as you say) AOE DPS, and POTENTIAL DPS, where a DK with these insane firebuilds and valkyn skoria actually has the potential to pull higher numbers than what is possible for anyone else in both AOE and ST.

I hear you saying that "this would be faster with more stamina NBs instead of DKs" but I believe considering the quality of players you have, that if that was truly the case you'd actually have stamina NBs instead

Somehow you (Hodor) are a pretty good example of it, you are obviously at the top of the competition and your best times are filled with DKs, it could be "because a lot of people choose to play DK" or it could be because they are simply a little bit better. Since I can see you have gone very far to beat your competition, I would guess that if something else was truly better.. you'd use that instead. Anyway, here you are calling DKs balanced? Don't think I ever saw anyone do that before.

Also I don't understand the need for calling people noobs when they reroll from a class that can do 1,2-1,4 to one that can do 1,7+. It does not help you get your point across.

Anyway, who cares. Either they will fix it in 1.6 or Elder DKs Online, who knows.

Honestly? A couple of us are looking into Stamina Nightblades at the moment with alts, theorycrafting around it to pull nicer DPS than DKs.

We sadly only have one player whose "main" is a NB and he's using magicka. Only people with a reroll DK in the group is a sorc player.

I will agree that DKs have best AOE DPS though.

pppontus · January 2015

TehMagnus wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Here's to hoping it's changed in U6. However there's a good chance that just means there is a new class that has a higher potential DPS than all the others. ^^

I don't think the explanation is as simple as that many people play a DK, they do have fantastic synergies between their skills, access to several awesome DOTs, Valkyn Skoria, their damage is fire which is the highest DPS element (+that many mobs are inherently weak to) and Battle Roar (which with current ulti regen is really strong). Almost everyone I see is rerolling DKs.

Sadly I don't even like playing my DK $:\$

so I rerolled a Stam NB to at least get somewhere close although not even close to being comparable in SO trash pulls. No 15K aoe dps on Trolls there. ^^

Pro DK gets very good DPS> Noob NB/Temp/Sorc sees that> "Omfg, I have to reroll DK so i can get same DPS" = ends up with same dps as with his NB/Temp/Sorc because he is a noob. End of story

95% of the players are noobs who do NOT try(or do not care) to get the best out of their class although there are ways of doing so. Instead they reroll DK and think they will do better dps because they have seen DKs pulling good numbers. Any *** class can pull 1,2k+ single target. (And yes you are forced into a specific build, dont tell me *** about build diversity, i do not care)
The only place where DKs are superior is AOE. It is because they have more AOE abilities to spam than other classes do.

I usually link ppl who ask for help this thread > tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-dps-build-compilation-by-class-and-weapon-type-1-5/

Yes, I can pull 1,2K in my sleep with all my characters (except the templar tank). The difference is mostly in (as you say) AOE DPS, and POTENTIAL DPS, where a DK with these insane firebuilds and valkyn skoria actually has the potential to pull higher numbers than what is possible for anyone else in both AOE and ST.

I hear you saying that "this would be faster with more stamina NBs instead of DKs" but I believe considering the quality of players you have, that if that was truly the case you'd actually have stamina NBs instead

Somehow you (Hodor) are a pretty good example of it, you are obviously at the top of the competition and your best times are filled with DKs, it could be "because a lot of people choose to play DK" or it could be because they are simply a little bit better. Since I can see you have gone very far to beat your competition, I would guess that if something else was truly better.. you'd use that instead. Anyway, here you are calling DKs balanced? Don't think I ever saw anyone do that before.

Also I don't understand the need for calling people noobs when they reroll from a class that can do 1,2-1,4 to one that can do 1,7+. It does not help you get your point across.

Anyway, who cares. Either they will fix it in 1.6 or Elder DKs Online, who knows.

Honestly? A couple of us are looking into Stamina Nightblades at the moment with alts, theorycrafting around it to pull nicer DPS than DKs.

We sadly only have one player whose "main" is a NB and he's using magicka. Only people with a reroll DK in the group is a sorc player.

I will agree that DKs have best AOE DPS though.

Stamina Nightblades are awesome, yes. I still cannot reach even close to one of our DKs, I don't know if his build is just insane but.. yeah. Pulling like 2K on Valariel. There's no way I can do that with my NB (currently).

Well, I'm going to put some more effort in theorycrafting .. maybe one day.

Alcast · January 2015

I am rerolling a Stam nb, currently level 10

TehMagnus · January 2015

pppontus wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Here's to hoping it's changed in U6. However there's a good chance that just means there is a new class that has a higher potential DPS than all the others. ^^

I don't think the explanation is as simple as that many people play a DK, they do have fantastic synergies between their skills, access to several awesome DOTs, Valkyn Skoria, their damage is fire which is the highest DPS element (+that many mobs are inherently weak to) and Battle Roar (which with current ulti regen is really strong). Almost everyone I see is rerolling DKs.

Sadly I don't even like playing my DK $:\$

so I rerolled a Stam NB to at least get somewhere close although not even close to being comparable in SO trash pulls. No 15K aoe dps on Trolls there. ^^

Pro DK gets very good DPS> Noob NB/Temp/Sorc sees that> "Omfg, I have to reroll DK so i can get same DPS" = ends up with same dps as with his NB/Temp/Sorc because he is a noob. End of story

95% of the players are noobs who do NOT try(or do not care) to get the best out of their class although there are ways of doing so. Instead they reroll DK and think they will do better dps because they have seen DKs pulling good numbers. Any *** class can pull 1,2k+ single target. (And yes you are forced into a specific build, dont tell me *** about build diversity, i do not care)
The only place where DKs are superior is AOE. It is because they have more AOE abilities to spam than other classes do.

I usually link ppl who ask for help this thread > tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-dps-build-compilation-by-class-and-weapon-type-1-5/

Yes, I can pull 1,2K in my sleep with all my characters (except the templar tank). The difference is mostly in (as you say) AOE DPS, and POTENTIAL DPS, where a DK with these insane firebuilds and valkyn skoria actually has the potential to pull higher numbers than what is possible for anyone else in both AOE and ST.

I hear you saying that "this would be faster with more stamina NBs instead of DKs" but I believe considering the quality of players you have, that if that was truly the case you'd actually have stamina NBs instead

Somehow you (Hodor) are a pretty good example of it, you are obviously at the top of the competition and your best times are filled with DKs, it could be "because a lot of people choose to play DK" or it could be because they are simply a little bit better. Since I can see you have gone very far to beat your competition, I would guess that if something else was truly better.. you'd use that instead. Anyway, here you are calling DKs balanced? Don't think I ever saw anyone do that before.

Also I don't understand the need for calling people noobs when they reroll from a class that can do 1,2-1,4 to one that can do 1,7+. It does not help you get your point across.

Anyway, who cares. Either they will fix it in 1.6 or Elder DKs Online, who knows.

Honestly? A couple of us are looking into Stamina Nightblades at the moment with alts, theorycrafting around it to pull nicer DPS than DKs.

We sadly only have one player whose "main" is a NB and he's using magicka. Only people with a reroll DK in the group is a sorc player.

I will agree that DKs have best AOE DPS though.

Stamina Nightblades are awesome, yes. I still cannot reach even close to one of our DKs, I don't know if his build is just insane but.. yeah. Pulling like 2K on Valariel. There's no way I can do that with my NB (currently).

Well, I'm going to put some more effort in theorycrafting .. maybe one day.

Well rather keep your theorycrafting mojo for PTS, we're all gona need it ^^.

pppontus · January 2015

TehMagnus wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Here's to hoping it's changed in U6. However there's a good chance that just means there is a new class that has a higher potential DPS than all the others. ^^

I don't think the explanation is as simple as that many people play a DK, they do have fantastic synergies between their skills, access to several awesome DOTs, Valkyn Skoria, their damage is fire which is the highest DPS element (+that many mobs are inherently weak to) and Battle Roar (which with current ulti regen is really strong). Almost everyone I see is rerolling DKs.

Sadly I don't even like playing my DK $:\$

so I rerolled a Stam NB to at least get somewhere close although not even close to being comparable in SO trash pulls. No 15K aoe dps on Trolls there. ^^

Pro DK gets very good DPS> Noob NB/Temp/Sorc sees that> "Omfg, I have to reroll DK so i can get same DPS" = ends up with same dps as with his NB/Temp/Sorc because he is a noob. End of story

95% of the players are noobs who do NOT try(or do not care) to get the best out of their class although there are ways of doing so. Instead they reroll DK and think they will do better dps because they have seen DKs pulling good numbers. Any *** class can pull 1,2k+ single target. (And yes you are forced into a specific build, dont tell me *** about build diversity, i do not care)
The only place where DKs are superior is AOE. It is because they have more AOE abilities to spam than other classes do.

I usually link ppl who ask for help this thread > tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-dps-build-compilation-by-class-and-weapon-type-1-5/

Yes, I can pull 1,2K in my sleep with all my characters (except the templar tank). The difference is mostly in (as you say) AOE DPS, and POTENTIAL DPS, where a DK with these insane firebuilds and valkyn skoria actually has the potential to pull higher numbers than what is possible for anyone else in both AOE and ST.

I hear you saying that "this would be faster with more stamina NBs instead of DKs" but I believe considering the quality of players you have, that if that was truly the case you'd actually have stamina NBs instead

Somehow you (Hodor) are a pretty good example of it, you are obviously at the top of the competition and your best times are filled with DKs, it could be "because a lot of people choose to play DK" or it could be because they are simply a little bit better. Since I can see you have gone very far to beat your competition, I would guess that if something else was truly better.. you'd use that instead. Anyway, here you are calling DKs balanced? Don't think I ever saw anyone do that before.

Also I don't understand the need for calling people noobs when they reroll from a class that can do 1,2-1,4 to one that can do 1,7+. It does not help you get your point across.

Anyway, who cares. Either they will fix it in 1.6 or Elder DKs Online, who knows.

Honestly? A couple of us are looking into Stamina Nightblades at the moment with alts, theorycrafting around it to pull nicer DPS than DKs.

We sadly only have one player whose "main" is a NB and he's using magicka. Only people with a reroll DK in the group is a sorc player.

I will agree that DKs have best AOE DPS though.

Stamina Nightblades are awesome, yes. I still cannot reach even close to one of our DKs, I don't know if his build is just insane but.. yeah. Pulling like 2K on Valariel. There's no way I can do that with my NB (currently).

Well, I'm going to put some more effort in theorycrafting .. maybe one day.

Well rather keep your theorycrafting mojo for PTS, we're all gona need it ^^.

Haha, no kidding. I'm literally leaving my launcher open 24/7.. just in case

Anyway, DKs or no DKs, huge congrats on your world records. Inspires the rest of us newbs to do better!

TehMagnus · January 2015

pppontus wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Here's to hoping it's changed in U6. However there's a good chance that just means there is a new class that has a higher potential DPS than all the others. ^^

I don't think the explanation is as simple as that many people play a DK, they do have fantastic synergies between their skills, access to several awesome DOTs, Valkyn Skoria, their damage is fire which is the highest DPS element (+that many mobs are inherently weak to) and Battle Roar (which with current ulti regen is really strong). Almost everyone I see is rerolling DKs.

Sadly I don't even like playing my DK $:\$

so I rerolled a Stam NB to at least get somewhere close although not even close to being comparable in SO trash pulls. No 15K aoe dps on Trolls there. ^^

Pro DK gets very good DPS> Noob NB/Temp/Sorc sees that> "Omfg, I have to reroll DK so i can get same DPS" = ends up with same dps as with his NB/Temp/Sorc because he is a noob. End of story

95% of the players are noobs who do NOT try(or do not care) to get the best out of their class although there are ways of doing so. Instead they reroll DK and think they will do better dps because they have seen DKs pulling good numbers. Any *** class can pull 1,2k+ single target. (And yes you are forced into a specific build, dont tell me *** about build diversity, i do not care)
The only place where DKs are superior is AOE. It is because they have more AOE abilities to spam than other classes do.

I usually link ppl who ask for help this thread > tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-dps-build-compilation-by-class-and-weapon-type-1-5/

Yes, I can pull 1,2K in my sleep with all my characters (except the templar tank). The difference is mostly in (as you say) AOE DPS, and POTENTIAL DPS, where a DK with these insane firebuilds and valkyn skoria actually has the potential to pull higher numbers than what is possible for anyone else in both AOE and ST.

I hear you saying that "this would be faster with more stamina NBs instead of DKs" but I believe considering the quality of players you have, that if that was truly the case you'd actually have stamina NBs instead

Somehow you (Hodor) are a pretty good example of it, you are obviously at the top of the competition and your best times are filled with DKs, it could be "because a lot of people choose to play DK" or it could be because they are simply a little bit better. Since I can see you have gone very far to beat your competition, I would guess that if something else was truly better.. you'd use that instead. Anyway, here you are calling DKs balanced? Don't think I ever saw anyone do that before.

Also I don't understand the need for calling people noobs when they reroll from a class that can do 1,2-1,4 to one that can do 1,7+. It does not help you get your point across.

Anyway, who cares. Either they will fix it in 1.6 or Elder DKs Online, who knows.

Honestly? A couple of us are looking into Stamina Nightblades at the moment with alts, theorycrafting around it to pull nicer DPS than DKs.

We sadly only have one player whose "main" is a NB and he's using magicka. Only people with a reroll DK in the group is a sorc player.

I will agree that DKs have best AOE DPS though.

Stamina Nightblades are awesome, yes. I still cannot reach even close to one of our DKs, I don't know if his build is just insane but.. yeah. Pulling like 2K on Valariel. There's no way I can do that with my NB (currently).

Well, I'm going to put some more effort in theorycrafting .. maybe one day.

Well rather keep your theorycrafting mojo for PTS, we're all gona need it ^^.

Haha, no kidding. I'm literally leaving my launcher open 24/7.. just in case

Anyway, DKs or no DKs, huge congrats on your world records. Inspires the rest of us newbs to do better!

Good luck! I know there are some very very good players in DC, you guys should get together like we did in EP or the bananas in AD

.

s7732425ub17_ESO · January 2015

Alcast wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

killedbyping wrote: »

Making NB to go Stamina is not a waste since any DW/Bow build on NB or Sorc will provide around 200-300 dps more compared to Magicka build. Currently VoB is useless in terms of DPS and damage reduction are static, so there is no difference who are going to put that down.
Ofc if there are just 1 NB in party and you going for long fight when you would need that VoB more then once then ofc, that NB should go for Magicka build because of unfair current ultimate generation mechanics.
But when we speak of time trials it is all about DPS, not the utility. You dont need much of utility if you can burn down your target 2-3 times faster then group filled with NBs.
There is no way you do 1.7k sustained DPS on single target with ANY build and ANY class (by sustained i mean that fight should last for atleast couple of minutes) specialy on Mantikora and Serpent where you have to spend quite alot of time doing something that prevent you from dealing damage.
Also, there are nothing that can help NB's do more DPS on stamina builds compared to Sorc's or DK's.
2H only worth for Execute, DW and Bow have no synergy with any of NB skills besides stamina regen.
Literaly 0 skills that boost damage (haste dont rly work for stamina builds, coz when you spam channeling skills like Flury and Snipe, that 30% CD reduction on light attacks provide literaly 0 profit).
Mark Target are totaly useless since Legendary Armor Reduction Enchant on wepon reduce ALL of the armor that any mob or boss currently have.

There's so much wrong with this post that it's hard to even begin...

First, you say no build can do sustained 1.7k DPS on a long fight. Well, there is a video on Youtube of a fire DK DOT build that procs meteor doing 1.6k DPS over the entire 10 minutes of the Serpent fight. Yea, it's real.

Second, it seems like you have never played a Sorc. When comparing a Sorc stamina build to a NB stamina build, the NB build will always be able to get more DPS and be much better just because of the class synergy with weapons. Sorc stamina builds are weak because there is no synergy with stamina builds. You think Crit Surge will help? Well, when you are already softcapped, Crit Surging only adds 10 weapons damage. Big woop. NB is still much, much stronger.

VoB useless in terms of DPS? It's a really good DoT over 20 seconds at the cost of hitting one button.

That are the DPS numbers that you can approx get on Serpent fight:
DK: 1,6k
Sorc: 1,4k
NB: 1,6k
Temp: 1,3k

So please dont say DK is the only class that gets to 1.6k

I never said DK was the only class that gets 1.6k.

Cody · January 2015

I actually prefer Templars and Nightblades for vet dungeons/raids:/, at least for tanks.
Nightblades have access to Veil of blades, funnel health/strife, siphoning attacks/leeching strikes, and great stamina passives which help with blocking(stamina recovery) and the "sap tanks" are truly devastating and masterful tanks. So much more durable than DK tanks in my opinion.

Templars have the best self heals in the game, and blazing shield is a devastating ability.

now DPS/healing wise, it changes from time to time

Aeratus · January 2015

Second, it seems like you have never played a Sorc. When comparing a Sorc stamina build to a NB stamina build, the NB build will always be able to get more DPS and be much better just because of the class synergy with weapons. Sorc stamina builds are weak because there is no synergy with stamina builds. You think Crit Surge will help? Well, when you are already softcapped, Crit Surging only adds 10 weapons damage. Big woop. NB is still much, much stronger.

Yeah, stamina sorc isn't comparable to DK, although it is still much better than magicka sorc. The problem with stamina sorc is also that crit surge scales with magicka pool. So with a stamina build, crit surge barely adds any damage, once you already consider that stamina builds already have overcharged weapon damage by default.

Septimus_Magna · January 2015

Alcast wrote: »

That are the DPS numbers that you can approx get on Serpent fight:
DK: 1,6k
Sorc: 1,4k
NB: 1,6k
Temp: 1,3k

I assume its a stamina sorc build which does 1,4k dps?
Hopefully the change from weapon to spell damage for the destro staff will balance the dps field. Sorcs supposed to be the magicka dps class.

Alcast · January 2015

that was with a sorc magicka build. You should get these numbers due to long execute phase.

JuL1aN · January 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

That are the DPS numbers that you can approx get on Serpent fight:
DK: 1,6k
Sorc: 1,4k
NB: 1,6k
Temp: 1,3k

I assume its a stamina sorc build which does 1,4k dps?
Hopefully the change from weapon to spell damage for the destro staff will balance the dps field. Sorcs supposed to be the magicka dps class.

Our Sorc can get this DPS as Magicka User.

Natjur · January 2015

AA with 12 Templar's (13mins, one run only)
AA with 12 DK (12 mins, but they did reset it a few times to get a better time)
AA with 12 NB (27 mins but there was a few first timers)
AA with 12 Sorcs (they failed and gave up)

JuL1aN · January 2015

Natjur wrote: »

AA with 12 Templar's (13mins, one run only)
AA with 12 DK (12 mins, but they did reset it a few times to get a better time)
AA with 12 NB (27 mins but there was a few first timers)
AA with 12 Sorcs (they failed and gave up)

depends on the players m8

Natjur · January 2015

JuL1aN wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

AA with 12 Templar's (13mins, one run only)
AA with 12 DK (12 mins, but they did reset it a few times to get a better time)
AA with 12 NB (27 mins but there was a few first timers)
AA with 12 Sorcs (they failed and gave up)

depends on the players m8

That's a given, above was just a guild being silly and seeing what happens with we try to form one class only AA runs. It means little and more of a joke then anything, but still.

heng14rwb17_ESO · January 2015

Natjur wrote: »

AA with 12 Templar's (13mins, one run only)
AA with 12 DK (12 mins, but they did reset it a few times to get a better time)
AA with 12 NB (27 mins but there was a few first timers)
AA with 12 Sorcs (they failed and gave up)

DK is the best of the best !

Septimus_Magna · January 2015

JuL1aN wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

That are the DPS numbers that you can approx get on Serpent fight:
DK: 1,6k
Sorc: 1,4k
NB: 1,6k
Temp: 1,3k

I assume its a stamina sorc build which does 1,4k dps?
Hopefully the change from weapon to spell damage for the destro staff will balance the dps field. Sorcs supposed to be the magicka dps class.

Our Sorc can get this DPS as Magicka User.

Oh, thats very impressive. Im curious about his or her build. I usually get around 900 on trail bosses (1,1k on daedric/undead bosses). But this was without Razor Caltrops, now I might get 100 dps more.

Cyhawk · January 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

JuL1aN wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

That are the DPS numbers that you can approx get on Serpent fight:
DK: 1,6k
Sorc: 1,4k
NB: 1,6k
Temp: 1,3k

I assume its a stamina sorc build which does 1,4k dps?
Hopefully the change from weapon to spell damage for the destro staff will balance the dps field. Sorcs supposed to be the magicka dps class.

Our Sorc can get this DPS as Magicka User.

Oh, thats very impressive. Im curious about his or her build. I usually get around 900 on trail bosses (1,1k on daedric/undead bosses). But this was without Razor Caltrops, now I might get 100 dps more.

Simple enough actually. Infallible Aether, Spawn of Meph 2pc, 3pc Destructive Mage &/or 3pc Soulshine^1, Master Destro (Lightning/Precise-Pen Preferred)

Soulshine is the choice if you need the extra crit, but Destructive will give you more damage overall. (2% damage vs 40ish flat damage from Destructive assuming it does 500 base @ 60% crit. Theres quite a bit of math involved with determining this. Also your group NEEDs to be medium weaving, this seems to only be popular in more... hmm, better trial groups)

You're essentially doing the exact same thing as before, MA->Crushing Repeat while keeping Crit Surge up, basics of the damage output are assuming 60% crit and non-shadow mundus, perfect weaving etc:

* Crushing = (450b * 1.6) = 720
* MA = (250b * 1.6) = 400
* Infal Aether = 85
* Spawn of Meph = 100~
* Destructive Mage = 40
* Clanfear (lawl) = 50
* Magicka Restore enchantment = 7
* Ing Weapons = 45

Subtotal: (720 + 400 + 85 + 100 + 40 + 50 + 7 + 45) = 1,447

* Spell Pot Potion on Cooldown with Enchantments = 8.5%~ = 1,570
* Combat Prayer = 11% (*1.11) = 1,742.7
* Infal Aether 3pc bonus = 2%~ = 1,777.554
* Ele Drain = 4%~ = 1,848.66, or 1850

(there are other ways to get more damage, but these are enough for the argument)

So we get about 1850 base DPS. This assumes perfect lag, perfect weaving, perfect a lot.. When accounting for buffs falling off, recasting Crit Curge, Spell syming, movement, blocking, your healer sucking cause they can't keep CP up, different boss resistances, not wanting to get laughed at for using a Clanfear, lag effecting MA weaves, and plain ole fatigue from long ass fights it drops a bit. However high DPS numbers are easy to sustain.

So yeah, you don't need a dual wield sorc to achieve these DPS numbers, those are the averages from top end players where things like CP/Ele Drain are always on, your group may differ. As you can see, those last few group oriented buffs are the most important.

Quick edit: I totally forgot Flawless Dawnbreaker. Screw it im not redoing the math.

Tripwyr · January 2015

This thread is nostalgic. I remember back when Alacrity cleared AA in 9 minutes there was a massive outrage because we had no Nightblades. Players used this as evidence that Nightblades need a fix, when the reality was that we simply didn't have any Nightblades in our guild. This had nothing to do with the class, but merely random luck.

Never assume that the raid layout is indicative of class strength in this game. This isn't WoW, Hodor and LP don't have thousands of players lining up to play with them. Raid makeups are based on who happens to be in the guild, not how good their class is.

Joy_Division · January 2015

Cyhawk wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

JuL1aN wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

That are the DPS numbers that you can approx get on Serpent fight:
DK: 1,6k
Sorc: 1,4k
NB: 1,6k
Temp: 1,3k

I assume its a stamina sorc build which does 1,4k dps?
Hopefully the change from weapon to spell damage for the destro staff will balance the dps field. Sorcs supposed to be the magicka dps class.

Our Sorc can get this DPS as Magicka User.

Oh, thats very impressive. Im curious about his or her build. I usually get around 900 on trail bosses (1,1k on daedric/undead bosses). But this was without Razor Caltrops, now I might get 100 dps more.

Simple enough actually. Infallible Aether, Spawn of Meph 2pc, 3pc Destructive Mage &/or 3pc Soulshine^1, Master Destro (Lightning/Precise-Pen Preferred)

Soulshine is the choice if you need the extra crit, but Destructive will give you more damage overall. (2% damage vs 40ish flat damage from Destructive assuming it does 500 base @ 60% crit. Theres quite a bit of math involved with determining this. Also your group NEEDs to be medium weaving, this seems to only be popular in more... hmm, better trial groups)

You're essentially doing the exact same thing as before, MA->Crushing Repeat while keeping Crit Surge up, basics of the damage output are assuming 60% crit and non-shadow mundus, perfect weaving etc:

* Crushing = (450b * 1.6) = 720
* MA = (250b * 1.6) = 400
* Infal Aether = 85
* Spawn of Meph = 100~
* Destructive Mage = 40
* Clanfear (lawl) = 50
* Magicka Restore enchantment = 7
* Ing Weapons = 45

Subtotal: (720 + 400 + 85 + 100 + 40 + 50 + 7 + 45) = 1,447

* Spell Pot Potion on Cooldown with Enchantments = 8.5%~ = 1,570
* Combat Prayer = 11% (*1.11) = 1,742.7
* Infal Aether 3pc bonus = 2%~ = 1,777.554
* Ele Drain = 4%~ = 1,848.66, or 1850

(there are other ways to get more damage, but these are enough for the argument)

So we get about 1850 base DPS. This assumes perfect lag, perfect weaving, perfect a lot.. When accounting for buffs falling off, recasting Crit Curge, Spell syming, movement, blocking, your healer sucking cause they can't keep CP up, different boss resistances, not wanting to get laughed at for using a Clanfear, lag effecting MA weaves, and plain ole fatigue from long ass fights it drops a bit. However high DPS numbers are easy to sustain.

So yeah, you don't need a dual wield sorc to achieve these DPS numbers, those are the averages from top end players where things like CP/Ele Drain are always on, your group may differ. As you can see, those last few group oriented buffs are the most important.

Quick edit: I totally forgot Flawless Dawnbreaker. Screw it im not redoing the math.

How is this "simple"? I have done all the content in the game multiple times and I have 1 piece Infallible Aether, 1 piece Spawn of Mephala, and have multiple master weapons but no destruction staffs.

Also, how is this exactly sorcerer DPS? The only sorcerer exclusive skill that went into your calculations is Clannfear...

Just slap that gear on a DK or NB and get a higher place on the leaderboard rankings...

Cyhawk · January 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Cyhawk wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

JuL1aN wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

That are the DPS numbers that you can approx get on Serpent fight:
DK: 1,6k
Sorc: 1,4k
NB: 1,6k
Temp: 1,3k

I assume its a stamina sorc build which does 1,4k dps?
Hopefully the change from weapon to spell damage for the destro staff will balance the dps field. Sorcs supposed to be the magicka dps class.

Our Sorc can get this DPS as Magicka User.

Oh, thats very impressive. Im curious about his or her build. I usually get around 900 on trail bosses (1,1k on daedric/undead bosses). But this was without Razor Caltrops, now I might get 100 dps more.

Simple enough actually. Infallible Aether, Spawn of Meph 2pc, 3pc Destructive Mage &/or 3pc Soulshine^1, Master Destro (Lightning/Precise-Pen Preferred)

Soulshine is the choice if you need the extra crit, but Destructive will give you more damage overall. (2% damage vs 40ish flat damage from Destructive assuming it does 500 base @ 60% crit. Theres quite a bit of math involved with determining this. Also your group NEEDs to be medium weaving, this seems to only be popular in more... hmm, better trial groups)

You're essentially doing the exact same thing as before, MA->Crushing Repeat while keeping Crit Surge up, basics of the damage output are assuming 60% crit and non-shadow mundus, perfect weaving etc:

* Crushing = (450b * 1.6) = 720
* MA = (250b * 1.6) = 400
* Infal Aether = 85
* Spawn of Meph = 100~
* Destructive Mage = 40
* Clanfear (lawl) = 50
* Magicka Restore enchantment = 7
* Ing Weapons = 45

Subtotal: (720 + 400 + 85 + 100 + 40 + 50 + 7 + 45) = 1,447

* Spell Pot Potion on Cooldown with Enchantments = 8.5%~ = 1,570
* Combat Prayer = 11% (*1.11) = 1,742.7
* Infal Aether 3pc bonus = 2%~ = 1,777.554
* Ele Drain = 4%~ = 1,848.66, or 1850

(there are other ways to get more damage, but these are enough for the argument)

So we get about 1850 base DPS. This assumes perfect lag, perfect weaving, perfect a lot.. When accounting for buffs falling off, recasting Crit Curge, Spell syming, movement, blocking, your healer sucking cause they can't keep CP up, different boss resistances, not wanting to get laughed at for using a Clanfear, lag effecting MA weaves, and plain ole fatigue from long ass fights it drops a bit. However high DPS numbers are easy to sustain.

So yeah, you don't need a dual wield sorc to achieve these DPS numbers, those are the averages from top end players where things like CP/Ele Drain are always on, your group may differ. As you can see, those last few group oriented buffs are the most important.

Quick edit: I totally forgot Flawless Dawnbreaker. Screw it im not redoing the math.

How is this "simple"? I have done all the content in the game multiple times and I have 1 piece Infallible Aether, 1 piece Spawn of Mephala, and have multiple master weapons but no destruction staffs.

Also, how is this exactly sorcerer DPS? The only sorcerer exclusive skill that went into your calculations is Clannfear...

Just slap that gear on a DK or NB and get a higher place on the leaderboard rankings...

Crit Surge is in there, thats where the 1000ish base crushing shock DPS comes from. Its difficult to calculate exactly how much it adds thus I didn't include it. The thing is, this is the basic setup for all 4 classes, you just sprinkle in your good class skills (Unstable for DKs as an example) during your Crushing spam to increase overall.

The way things are right now, class skills are inferior to crushing as a spammable attack when talking about max DPS. The differences between classes comes down to, your singular good class skill and passives. DKs just have an excellent DPS class skill while Sorcs's class skill doesn't add damage during its cast.

I should note I didn't include disintegration procs as its highly variable.

f047ys3v3n · January 2015

Hmm, why are there so many DK's, there weren't so many at launch?

Why do so many endgame players with Sorcs as myself, loli, and Hypertoxic roll there second toon as their primary? We must just not have any idea how to play. I'll bet our weave is just garbage.

I wonder why so many good DK's don't have any secondary max vet toons since these other classes are so appealing? I bet they just cry every day when an SO group forms and they can't join because the group is really looking for 5th sorc.

For my part, what I prefer most in an SO group is 2 dk tanks with the off tank dpsing all but the bookend bosses, 3 templars with one also capable of good dps on serpent. 2-3 magica NB's, and 4-5 straight dps DK's, 0 sorcs. Dk's not only do roughly 2-300 more single target than any other class when doing magica builds but they do 3x the aoe causing the overchargers to drop before charging.

As for all those great stam builds that do, in fact, have higher dps than magica Nb's or sorcs. For the most part they die more because of the shared blocking and dps pool and the lower spell resist. Furthermore, given that they really don't charge ult, ill take another DK in their place.

As for AA, I hear it helps a DK group to have one Templar around lol.

The fact that people argue this is amusing when the leader board times are so clear. We'll see after 1.6 when Stam becomes the name of the game and perhaps NB's and Sorcs will have higher dps than DK and the best tank class will also not be the best DPS class. It seems to me that 1.6 has been pitched as the great solution to balance problems, the end of beta, the game as it was meant to be. I have my doubts. All of this needed to be balanced little by little and it was for a little at the start but I think the devs then moved to working on 1.6 and have been doing most of their balance there for some time.

Here is to hoping. I would love to run my Sorc in trials more than the once a week I coerce my guilds into taking it on. Honestly though, I am leveling a 3rd toon as well at the moment. It's a Dunmer DK. I am embracing the chaos.

pppontus · January 2015

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Hmm, why are there so many DK's, there weren't so many at launch?

Why do so many endgame players with Sorcs as myself, loli, and Hypertoxic roll there second toon as their primary? We must just not have any idea how to play. I'll bet our weave is just garbage.

I wonder why so many good DK's don't have any secondary max vet toons since these other classes are so appealing? I bet they just cry every day when an SO group forms and they can't join because the group is really looking for 5th sorc.

For my part, what I prefer most in an SO group is 2 dk tanks with the off tank dpsing all but the bookend bosses, 3 templars with one also capable of good dps on serpent. 2-3 magica NB's, and 4-5 straight dps DK's, 0 sorcs. Dk's not only do roughly 2-300 more single target than any other class when doing magica builds but they do 3x the aoe causing the overchargers to drop before charging.

As for all those great stam builds that do, in fact, have higher dps than magica Nb's or sorcs. For the most part they die more because of the shared blocking and dps pool and the lower spell resist. Furthermore, given that they really don't charge ult, ill take another DK in their place.

As for AA, I hear it helps a DK group to have one Templar around lol.

The fact that people argue this is amusing when the leader board times are so clear. We'll see after 1.6 when Stam becomes the name of the game and perhaps NB's and Sorcs will have higher dps than DK and the best tank class will also not be the best DPS class. It seems to me that 1.6 has been pitched as the great solution to balance problems, the end of beta, the game as it was meant to be. I have my doubts. All of this needed to be balanced little by little and it was for a little at the start but I think the devs then moved to working on 1.6 and have been doing most of their balance there for some time.

Here is to hoping. I would love to run my Sorc in trials more than the once a week I coerce my guilds into taking it on. Honestly though, I am leveling a 3rd toon as well at the moment. It's a Dunmer DK. I am embracing the chaos.

Templar Tank > DK Tank.

Cyhawk wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

JuL1aN wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

That are the DPS numbers that you can approx get on Serpent fight:
DK: 1,6k
Sorc: 1,4k
NB: 1,6k
Temp: 1,3k

I assume its a stamina sorc build which does 1,4k dps?
Hopefully the change from weapon to spell damage for the destro staff will balance the dps field. Sorcs supposed to be the magicka dps class.

Our Sorc can get this DPS as Magicka User.

Oh, thats very impressive. Im curious about his or her build. I usually get around 900 on trail bosses (1,1k on daedric/undead bosses). But this was without Razor Caltrops, now I might get 100 dps more.

Simple enough actually. Infallible Aether, Spawn of Meph 2pc, 3pc Destructive Mage &/or 3pc Soulshine^1, Master Destro (Lightning/Precise-Pen Preferred)

Soulshine is the choice if you need the extra crit, but Destructive will give you more damage overall. (2% damage vs 40ish flat damage from Destructive assuming it does 500 base @ 60% crit. Theres quite a bit of math involved with determining this. Also your group NEEDs to be medium weaving, this seems to only be popular in more... hmm, better trial groups)

You're essentially doing the exact same thing as before, MA->Crushing Repeat while keeping Crit Surge up, basics of the damage output are assuming 60% crit and non-shadow mundus, perfect weaving etc:

* Crushing = (450b * 1.6) = 720
* MA = (250b * 1.6) = 400
* Infal Aether = 85
* Spawn of Meph = 100~
* Destructive Mage = 40
* Clanfear (lawl) = 50
* Magicka Restore enchantment = 7
* Ing Weapons = 45

Subtotal: (720 + 400 + 85 + 100 + 40 + 50 + 7 + 45) = 1,447

* Spell Pot Potion on Cooldown with Enchantments = 8.5%~ = 1,570
* Combat Prayer = 11% (*1.11) = 1,742.7
* Infal Aether 3pc bonus = 2%~ = 1,777.554
* Ele Drain = 4%~ = 1,848.66, or 1850

(there are other ways to get more damage, but these are enough for the argument)

So we get about 1850 base DPS. This assumes perfect lag, perfect weaving, perfect a lot.. When accounting for buffs falling off, recasting Crit Curge, Spell syming, movement, blocking, your healer sucking cause they can't keep CP up, different boss resistances, not wanting to get laughed at for using a Clanfear, lag effecting MA weaves, and plain ole fatigue from long ass fights it drops a bit. However high DPS numbers are easy to sustain.

So yeah, you don't need a dual wield sorc to achieve these DPS numbers, those are the averages from top end players where things like CP/Ele Drain are always on, your group may differ. As you can see, those last few group oriented buffs are the most important.

Quick edit: I totally forgot Flawless Dawnbreaker. Screw it im not redoing the math.

Yeah, with this combo I actually outperform my Magicka NB on my Sorc by a small margin, it doesn't seem to work quite as well on the Nightblade presumably due to losing too much of the weapon/spell power from other sets (although haven't tested it enough to say that's conclusive).

However it should be said that for >90% of the ESO population obtaining 5 good pieces of Infallible Aether might prove difficult. I also don't have the Master's Destro.. and since all my Master weapons so far have the fabulous Charged trait I'm not sure I would use it even if I did get it.