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Why 1.6 Ultimate Generation is a cop out
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yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pierson who says game is filled with garbage players and has low skill ceiling proceeds to give advice on how skilled players should be rewarded for skilll
How can skill even be measured. I mean from your perspective this game is like angry birds why are you putting so much effort in?Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
Ffastyl✭✭✭✭✭frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »I see where OP is coming from. I had a passing thought too that it was a simplistic solution to a worthy issue.
But sometimes, simple isn't necesarily bad.
For one, the ultimate generation needed to be looked at months ago. The devs solution seems effective and comes within a very large update. Adding more to it is beging for having more things potentially break.
Your idea to introduce a finess system to make better players gain slightly faster is great but it can be added at a later date, on its own and in a well thought out way.
Remember also that apparently, all ultimates have been buffed by a decent margin. It is a conditional sixth slot on our hotbars and trigger discipline will have more value from now on. Maybe it is worth seeing the new versions of the ultimates in a bare bone environment.
In short, I agree with the sentiment, but lets allow the devs to have some itterative development on this one.
Well said."A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
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"My strength is that I have no weaknesses. My weakness is that I have no strengths."
Member since May 4th, 2014.1 -
The skill often lies in knowing what ability to use and when to use it. Be it single target or AoE.
There's 5 abilities on your bar at any given time + your ulti (which they will basically put on an eggtimer) There's gonna be some spamming after 1.6 aswell wheather you like it or not, so just get over it already.0 -
Columba✭✭✭✭✭
✭
We read just fine. We just laugh at clods who think aoe spamming constitutes skill, lol
someone didn't read.I think they had to do something as the current system simply allows ultimate gain too fast and ultimate get reduce to nothing more then a 6th skill slot that is strong.
I don't think they went far enough in nerfing ultimate generation. Ultimate should be hard to Gen, and should take awhile to fill, this means choosing when and where to use it becomes more important because once you use it, it will be awhile before you get enough points to use it again.
Personally I think they should just scrap ultimates all together and go back to TES once a day racial powers.
Yes once per in game day(however long the game times the passing of a day) you can activate a super strong ability, after that, it has a cool down like the powers in Oblivion and Skyrim did.
Orcs- Beserker Rage- for 30 seconds you take half damage from physical attacks and do double damage with physical attacks.
Breton- DragonSkin- for 30 seconds you absorb all incoming spell damage converting it to magi ka.
High Elf- High Born- recover 25% your maximum magicka every second for 30 seconds.
Argonian- Hist Skin- recover 25% of your max health every second for 30 seconds.
Redguard- Adrenaline Rush- recover 25% of your max stamina every second for 30 seconds.
Nord- Legacy of Ysgrammor- all weapon attacks ignore 75% of opponents armor and do 25% more damage, each successful hit restores 15% of max health and stamina. Lasts 20 seconds.
Dark Elf- Ancestor Guardian- summons a ghost of an ancestor to attack his opponent for 20 seconds. Ghost can not be damaged and each hit from the ghosts reduces opponents damage by 25% for 4 seconds. Also creates a fire cloak around the dark elf damaging anyone who gets close for 20 seconds.
Wood Elf - Call of the Wild- summons 2 bears and 2 tigers to fight for you for 20 seconds. Each hit by the summoned animals increases the wood elfs attack damage by 60% for 4 seconds.
Imperial - Voice of the Emperor- for 60 seconds all fights around you cease immediately, no one can attack anyone. Its a calm spell so its an escape like a cease fire.
These all make sense in lore, they are very very powerful, but can only be used once per day, so choosing wisely when to use them is important, when you do use them though you will make a big impact. This is how its always been from lore, each race has its own power unique to it, also makes choice of race more important and expands build options.
Just my take, I'd rather have ultra powerful racial powers I can use once a day over ultimates.
Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate. I am fine for the reduction, it is definitely better for the game as ulti spam to win fights is silly.
I'm asking for a more dynamic generation approach that rewards good gameplay and punishes bad (or at least doesn't reward bad play).
lol, you mean like it currently is?
Someone didn't read
No, you dummy. The current spamming AoE's, dots and crits has nothing to do with good gameplay. Stop being so shortsighted and actually try to understand what the OP means.I think they had to do something as the current system simply allows ultimate gain too fast and ultimate get reduce to nothing more then a 6th skill slot that is strong.
I don't think they went far enough in nerfing ultimate generation. Ultimate should be hard to Gen, and should take awhile to fill, this means choosing when and where to use it becomes more important because once you use it, it will be awhile before you get enough points to use it again.
Personally I think they should just scrap ultimates all together and go back to TES once a day racial powers.
Yes once per in game day(however long the game times the passing of a day) you can activate a super strong ability, after that, it has a cool down like the powers in Oblivion and Skyrim did.
Orcs- Beserker Rage- for 30 seconds you take half damage from physical attacks and do double damage with physical attacks.
Breton- DragonSkin- for 30 seconds you absorb all incoming spell damage converting it to magi ka.
High Elf- High Born- recover 25% your maximum magicka every second for 30 seconds.
Argonian- Hist Skin- recover 25% of your max health every second for 30 seconds.
Redguard- Adrenaline Rush- recover 25% of your max stamina every second for 30 seconds.
Nord- Legacy of Ysgrammor- all weapon attacks ignore 75% of opponents armor and do 25% more damage, each successful hit restores 15% of max health and stamina. Lasts 20 seconds.
Dark Elf- Ancestor Guardian- summons a ghost of an ancestor to attack his opponent for 20 seconds. Ghost can not be damaged and each hit from the ghosts reduces opponents damage by 25% for 4 seconds. Also creates a fire cloak around the dark elf damaging anyone who gets close for 20 seconds.
Wood Elf - Call of the Wild- summons 2 bears and 2 tigers to fight for you for 20 seconds. Each hit by the summoned animals increases the wood elfs attack damage by 60% for 4 seconds.
Imperial - Voice of the Emperor- for 60 seconds all fights around you cease immediately, no one can attack anyone. Its a calm spell so its an escape like a cease fire.
These all make sense in lore, they are very very powerful, but can only be used once per day, so choosing wisely when to use them is important, when you do use them though you will make a big impact. This is how its always been from lore, each race has its own power unique to it, also makes choice of race more important and expands build options.
Just my take, I'd rather have ultra powerful racial powers I can use once a day over ultimates.
Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate. I am fine for the reduction, it is definitely better for the game as ulti spam to win fights is silly.
I'm asking for a more dynamic generation approach that rewards good gameplay and punishes bad (or at least doesn't reward bad play).
lol, you mean like it currently is?
This, I'm happy that a majority of the people reading this post understand what I am saying... but seriously flabbergasted by the obvious either trolls or people who just didn't read the thread at all and instead immediately assume the absolutely opposite thing of what I am suggesting....
Not surprised given some of the names though I guess...
1 -
Jaerlach✭✭✭
We read just fine. We just laugh at clods who think aoe spamming constitutes skill, lol someone didn't read.I think they had to do something as the current system simply allows ultimate gain too fast and ultimate get reduce to nothing more then a 6th skill slot that is strong.
I don't think they went far enough in nerfing ultimate generation. Ultimate should be hard to Gen, and should take awhile to fill, this means choosing when and where to use it becomes more important because once you use it, it will be awhile before you get enough points to use it again.
Personally I think they should just scrap ultimates all together and go back to TES once a day racial powers.
Yes once per in game day(however long the game times the passing of a day) you can activate a super strong ability, after that, it has a cool down like the powers in Oblivion and Skyrim did.
Orcs- Beserker Rage- for 30 seconds you take half damage from physical attacks and do double damage with physical attacks.
Breton- DragonSkin- for 30 seconds you absorb all incoming spell damage converting it to magi ka.
High Elf- High Born- recover 25% your maximum magicka every second for 30 seconds.
Argonian- Hist Skin- recover 25% of your max health every second for 30 seconds.
Redguard- Adrenaline Rush- recover 25% of your max stamina every second for 30 seconds.
Nord- Legacy of Ysgrammor- all weapon attacks ignore 75% of opponents armor and do 25% more damage, each successful hit restores 15% of max health and stamina. Lasts 20 seconds.
Dark Elf- Ancestor Guardian- summons a ghost of an ancestor to attack his opponent for 20 seconds. Ghost can not be damaged and each hit from the ghosts reduces opponents damage by 25% for 4 seconds. Also creates a fire cloak around the dark elf damaging anyone who gets close for 20 seconds.
Wood Elf - Call of the Wild- summons 2 bears and 2 tigers to fight for you for 20 seconds. Each hit by the summoned animals increases the wood elfs attack damage by 60% for 4 seconds.
Imperial - Voice of the Emperor- for 60 seconds all fights around you cease immediately, no one can attack anyone. Its a calm spell so its an escape like a cease fire.
These all make sense in lore, they are very very powerful, but can only be used once per day, so choosing wisely when to use them is important, when you do use them though you will make a big impact. This is how its always been from lore, each race has its own power unique to it, also makes choice of race more important and expands build options.
Just my take, I'd rather have ultra powerful racial powers I can use once a day over ultimates.
Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate. I am fine for the reduction, it is definitely better for the game as ulti spam to win fights is silly.
I'm asking for a more dynamic generation approach that rewards good gameplay and punishes bad (or at least doesn't reward bad play).
lol, you mean like it currently is?
Someone didn't read
No, you dummy. The current spamming AoE's, dots and crits has nothing to do with good gameplay. Stop being so shortsighted and actually try to understand what the OP means.I think they had to do something as the current system simply allows ultimate gain too fast and ultimate get reduce to nothing more then a 6th skill slot that is strong.
I don't think they went far enough in nerfing ultimate generation. Ultimate should be hard to Gen, and should take awhile to fill, this means choosing when and where to use it becomes more important because once you use it, it will be awhile before you get enough points to use it again.
Personally I think they should just scrap ultimates all together and go back to TES once a day racial powers.
Yes once per in game day(however long the game times the passing of a day) you can activate a super strong ability, after that, it has a cool down like the powers in Oblivion and Skyrim did.
Orcs- Beserker Rage- for 30 seconds you take half damage from physical attacks and do double damage with physical attacks.
Breton- DragonSkin- for 30 seconds you absorb all incoming spell damage converting it to magi ka.
High Elf- High Born- recover 25% your maximum magicka every second for 30 seconds.
Argonian- Hist Skin- recover 25% of your max health every second for 30 seconds.
Redguard- Adrenaline Rush- recover 25% of your max stamina every second for 30 seconds.
Nord- Legacy of Ysgrammor- all weapon attacks ignore 75% of opponents armor and do 25% more damage, each successful hit restores 15% of max health and stamina. Lasts 20 seconds.
Dark Elf- Ancestor Guardian- summons a ghost of an ancestor to attack his opponent for 20 seconds. Ghost can not be damaged and each hit from the ghosts reduces opponents damage by 25% for 4 seconds. Also creates a fire cloak around the dark elf damaging anyone who gets close for 20 seconds.
Wood Elf - Call of the Wild- summons 2 bears and 2 tigers to fight for you for 20 seconds. Each hit by the summoned animals increases the wood elfs attack damage by 60% for 4 seconds.
Imperial - Voice of the Emperor- for 60 seconds all fights around you cease immediately, no one can attack anyone. Its a calm spell so its an escape like a cease fire.
These all make sense in lore, they are very very powerful, but can only be used once per day, so choosing wisely when to use them is important, when you do use them though you will make a big impact. This is how its always been from lore, each race has its own power unique to it, also makes choice of race more important and expands build options.
Just my take, I'd rather have ultra powerful racial powers I can use once a day over ultimates.
Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate. I am fine for the reduction, it is definitely better for the game as ulti spam to win fights is silly.
I'm asking for a more dynamic generation approach that rewards good gameplay and punishes bad (or at least doesn't reward bad play).
lol, you mean like it currently is?
This, I'm happy that a majority of the people reading this post understand what I am saying... but seriously flabbergasted by the obvious either trolls or people who just didn't read the thread at all and instead immediately assume the absolutely opposite thing of what I am suggesting....
Not surprised given some of the names though I guess...
Spamming aoe is no more or less skillful than spamming snipe or any other skill. This game is built around skill spamming. The AOE stuff is an issue because of secondary problems (eg server lag and game imbalances), but many players use aoe skills, and you can't blame them for doing what's most effective in the current game.
It also makes no sense to get excited about any individual change in 1.6. So much about the game will change all at once that your baseline for comparison is going to be almost worthless. Ultimate changes, skill changes, class changes .. so much is going to change at once that it will just not be comparable to previous experiences.Jaerlach Kesepton (DK)
The 7th Vanguard
DC - NA first SO speed run & first Hardmode Speedrun
NA Record Vet DSA: 115190 -
Morvul✭✭✭✭✭
actually... he does not seem to think that AoE spamming is the most "skillful" play. He only thinks (and I agree with that assessment) that it currently is the most effective play.We read just fine. We just laugh at clods who think aoe spamming constitutes skill, lol
@Huntler argues that replacing "brainless AoE spam" by "brainless light attack every couple seconds" as the most efficient means of Ultimate generation is not exactly beneficial to the game.
Instead, he petitions that "brainless AoE spam" should be replaced by "actually trying to play well" as the most efficient means of Ultimate generation.
I hope my rewording did not missrepresent the OPs intention and helped a few more folks understand them...
1 -
suycyco✭✭✭Do we have an idea of all the passive generating ultimates will change (WW, alliance war,emperor, siphoning one of the NB, ww set ect ect)?
And do we have an idea if in champion system they will be somes abilities to gain more ultimates?
If we don't it's maybe a bit early to start to whine about it no?
Let's test it on the PTS and then ask, or don't ask for some changes.
The only thing I know being a solo/smal group player without any heal, it's the new system it's more fair to me against player who never figth without an ult charged thanks to healing springs before coming.
0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yet you are unable to see or read where OP wants ult generation to go.
We read just fine. We just laugh at clods who think aoe spamming constitutes skill, lol someone didn't read.I think they had to do something as the current system simply allows ultimate gain too fast and ultimate get reduce to nothing more then a 6th skill slot that is strong.
I don't think they went far enough in nerfing ultimate generation. Ultimate should be hard to Gen, and should take awhile to fill, this means choosing when and where to use it becomes more important because once you use it, it will be awhile before you get enough points to use it again.
Personally I think they should just scrap ultimates all together and go back to TES once a day racial powers.
Yes once per in game day(however long the game times the passing of a day) you can activate a super strong ability, after that, it has a cool down like the powers in Oblivion and Skyrim did.
Orcs- Beserker Rage- for 30 seconds you take half damage from physical attacks and do double damage with physical attacks.
Breton- DragonSkin- for 30 seconds you absorb all incoming spell damage converting it to magi ka.
High Elf- High Born- recover 25% your maximum magicka every second for 30 seconds.
Argonian- Hist Skin- recover 25% of your max health every second for 30 seconds.
Redguard- Adrenaline Rush- recover 25% of your max stamina every second for 30 seconds.
Nord- Legacy of Ysgrammor- all weapon attacks ignore 75% of opponents armor and do 25% more damage, each successful hit restores 15% of max health and stamina. Lasts 20 seconds.
Dark Elf- Ancestor Guardian- summons a ghost of an ancestor to attack his opponent for 20 seconds. Ghost can not be damaged and each hit from the ghosts reduces opponents damage by 25% for 4 seconds. Also creates a fire cloak around the dark elf damaging anyone who gets close for 20 seconds.
Wood Elf - Call of the Wild- summons 2 bears and 2 tigers to fight for you for 20 seconds. Each hit by the summoned animals increases the wood elfs attack damage by 60% for 4 seconds.
Imperial - Voice of the Emperor- for 60 seconds all fights around you cease immediately, no one can attack anyone. Its a calm spell so its an escape like a cease fire.
These all make sense in lore, they are very very powerful, but can only be used once per day, so choosing wisely when to use them is important, when you do use them though you will make a big impact. This is how its always been from lore, each race has its own power unique to it, also makes choice of race more important and expands build options.
Just my take, I'd rather have ultra powerful racial powers I can use once a day over ultimates.
Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate. I am fine for the reduction, it is definitely better for the game as ulti spam to win fights is silly.
I'm asking for a more dynamic generation approach that rewards good gameplay and punishes bad (or at least doesn't reward bad play).
lol, you mean like it currently is?
Someone didn't read
No, you dummy. The current spamming AoE's, dots and crits has nothing to do with good gameplay. Stop being so shortsighted and actually try to understand what the OP means.I think they had to do something as the current system simply allows ultimate gain too fast and ultimate get reduce to nothing more then a 6th skill slot that is strong.
I don't think they went far enough in nerfing ultimate generation. Ultimate should be hard to Gen, and should take awhile to fill, this means choosing when and where to use it becomes more important because once you use it, it will be awhile before you get enough points to use it again.
Personally I think they should just scrap ultimates all together and go back to TES once a day racial powers.
Yes once per in game day(however long the game times the passing of a day) you can activate a super strong ability, after that, it has a cool down like the powers in Oblivion and Skyrim did.
Orcs- Beserker Rage- for 30 seconds you take half damage from physical attacks and do double damage with physical attacks.
Breton- DragonSkin- for 30 seconds you absorb all incoming spell damage converting it to magi ka.
High Elf- High Born- recover 25% your maximum magicka every second for 30 seconds.
Argonian- Hist Skin- recover 25% of your max health every second for 30 seconds.
Redguard- Adrenaline Rush- recover 25% of your max stamina every second for 30 seconds.
Nord- Legacy of Ysgrammor- all weapon attacks ignore 75% of opponents armor and do 25% more damage, each successful hit restores 15% of max health and stamina. Lasts 20 seconds.
Dark Elf- Ancestor Guardian- summons a ghost of an ancestor to attack his opponent for 20 seconds. Ghost can not be damaged and each hit from the ghosts reduces opponents damage by 25% for 4 seconds. Also creates a fire cloak around the dark elf damaging anyone who gets close for 20 seconds.
Wood Elf - Call of the Wild- summons 2 bears and 2 tigers to fight for you for 20 seconds. Each hit by the summoned animals increases the wood elfs attack damage by 60% for 4 seconds.
Imperial - Voice of the Emperor- for 60 seconds all fights around you cease immediately, no one can attack anyone. Its a calm spell so its an escape like a cease fire.
These all make sense in lore, they are very very powerful, but can only be used once per day, so choosing wisely when to use them is important, when you do use them though you will make a big impact. This is how its always been from lore, each race has its own power unique to it, also makes choice of race more important and expands build options.
Just my take, I'd rather have ultra powerful racial powers I can use once a day over ultimates.
Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate. I am fine for the reduction, it is definitely better for the game as ulti spam to win fights is silly.
I'm asking for a more dynamic generation approach that rewards good gameplay and punishes bad (or at least doesn't reward bad play).
lol, you mean like it currently is?
This, I'm happy that a majority of the people reading this post understand what I am saying... but seriously flabbergasted by the obvious either trolls or people who just didn't read the thread at all and instead immediately assume the absolutely opposite thing of what I am suggesting....
Not surprised given some of the names though I guess...
2 -
Mauz✭✭✭People get so butthurt about being 1vx'd no matter the class that does it to them, and everytime it comes down to "all you do is spam (insert ultimate here)"
But that will still be possible.
They didn't mention that they will remove or change any passive or ability which generates ultimate. So if u r rank 10 in assault you still get your ultimate for kills, you still get it from kills of your group members, you still get passive boni for using skills, you still have skill morphs to generate ultimate etc.0 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭Why are people so strung up on spamming skills? We have 10 skills... there's going to be spamming of them.
Why aren't people advocating for how ever many skill bars possible we can want and more skills if you want to stop the spamming.
Don't hate the player hate the game.Edited by Nijjion on January 9, 2015 2:36PMNijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.0 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
actually... he does not seem to think that AoE spamming is the most "skillful" play. He only thinks (and I agree with that assessment) that it currently is the most effective play.We read just fine. We just laugh at clods who think aoe spamming constitutes skill, lol
@Huntler argues that replacing "brainless AoE spam" by "brainless light attack every couple seconds" as the most efficient means of Ultimate generation is not exactly beneficial to the game.
Instead, he petitions that "brainless AoE spam" should be replaced by "actually trying to play well" as the most efficient means of Ultimate generation.
I hope my rewording did not missrepresent the OPs intention and helped a few more folks understand them...
Perfectly representative of what I am trying to convey.0 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pierson who says game is filled with garbage players and has low skill ceiling proceeds to give advice on how skilled players should be rewarded for skilll
How can skill even be measured. I mean from your perspective this game is like angry birds why are you putting so much effort in?
If you actually see past your ego you will see that actually both things make sense together... a player who thinks this game's skill ceilling is too low is petitioning to make the game harder to allow for greater options/rewarding players who make "better" plays....
I'm flabbergasted by the amount of people who just don't seem to understand this and instead think I want aoe spam or something (or in this case just some guy who got his feelings hurt when I said a lot of players are bad). And you ask a question that I reasonably answered already on how to measure "skill", you measure it by certain plays that should be made by players in combat that benefit the battle. While each play by itself doesn't represent skill, they are things to be desired and good players will do them in a combat scenario (IE bash interrupt, battle rez, etc.).Edited by Huntler on January 9, 2015 3:28PM0 -
Darkonflare15✭✭✭✭✭
I seriously doubt is what you wrote down that causes people to reply to you bad. It just your tone and how you reply back to people. You sound like an elistist jerk who thinks his ideas are what is best. Now I understand what you wrote down and see where you going with this but it just a matter of your tone. Here is some examples which will tick somebody off instead of reading your whole topic or trying to understand your topic.Pierson who says game is filled with garbage players and has low skill ceiling proceeds to give advice on how skilled players should be rewarded for skilll
How can skill even be measured. I mean from your perspective this game is like angry birds why are you putting so much effort in?
If you actually see past your ego you will see that actually both things make sense together... a player who thinks this game's skill ceilling is too low is petitioning to make the game harder to allow for greater options/rewarding players who make "better" plays....
I'm flabbergasted by the amount of people who just don't seem to understand this and instead think I want aoe spam or something (or in this case just some guy who got his feelings hurt when I said a lot of players are bad). And you ask a question that I reasonably answered already on how to measure "skill", you measure it by certain plays that should be made by players in combat that benefit the battle. While each play by itself doesn't represent skill, they are things to be desired and good players will do them in a combat scenario (IE bash interrupt, battle rez, etc.).- I've pissed a few people off already with my claims this game is ridiculously simple and dumbed down,
- Now before people freak out and say well I am super skilled at this game look at how awesome I am, save it, not hear to argue how hard you think this game is.
- Back to your regularly scheduled programming of drama, complaining, and overall B.S. Enjoy.
- I am suggesting a change to how the ultimate is generated, regardless of the rate..... so.... yeah.. I guess read next time
- Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate.
- Burn , while true I think its fair of me to judge the mechanic they are adding given it is so simple it would be dang near impossible to somehow miss how "skillful" of a mechanic it is . Like really
- or in this case just some guy who got his feelings hurt when I said a lot of players are bad).
I am surprised that you did not think this many people would not understand you. You pretty much invited people to not understand your point.Edited by Darkonflare15 on January 9, 2015 5:34PM1 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
the problem is that in result his attempt will end in a substitution of spamming X with spamming Y to build ulti. his system must include lockout timers of sth like 30++sec on each of his ulti build options to actual benefit intelligent gameplay (rotating through all ulti build options) otherwise its nothing but a substitution of spamming what ever activity building ult suits your gameplay the most.
actually... he does not seem to think that AoE spamming is the most "skillful" play. He only thinks (and I agree with that assessment) that it currently is the most effective play.We read just fine. We just laugh at clods who think aoe spamming constitutes skill, lol
@Huntler argues that replacing "brainless AoE spam" by "brainless light attack every couple seconds" as the most efficient means of Ultimate generation is not exactly beneficial to the game.
Instead, he petitions that "brainless AoE spam" should be replaced by "actually trying to play well" as the most efficient means of Ultimate generation.
I hope my rewording did not missrepresent the OPs intention and helped a few more folks understand them...spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darkonflare15 wrote: »
I seriously doubt is what you wrote down that causes people to reply to you bad. It just your tone and how you reply back to people. You sound like an elistist jerk who thinks his ideas are what is best. Now I understand what you wrote down and see where you going with this but it just a matter of your tone. Here is some examples which will tick somebody off instead of reading your whole topic or trying to understand your topic.Pierson who says game is filled with garbage players and has low skill ceiling proceeds to give advice on how skilled players should be rewarded for skilll
How can skill even be measured. I mean from your perspective this game is like angry birds why are you putting so much effort in?
If you actually see past your ego you will see that actually both things make sense together... a player who thinks this game's skill ceilling is too low is petitioning to make the game harder to allow for greater options/rewarding players who make "better" plays....
I'm flabbergasted by the amount of people who just don't seem to understand this and instead think I want aoe spam or something (or in this case just some guy who got his feelings hurt when I said a lot of players are bad). And you ask a question that I reasonably answered already on how to measure "skill", you measure it by certain plays that should be made by players in combat that benefit the battle. While each play by itself doesn't represent skill, they are things to be desired and good players will do them in a combat scenario (IE bash interrupt, battle rez, etc.).- I've pissed a few people off already with my claims this game is ridiculously simple and dumbed down,
- Now before people freak out and say well I am super skilled at this game look at how awesome I am, save it, not hear to argue how hard you think this game is.
- Back to your regularly scheduled programming of drama, complaining, and overall B.S. Enjoy.
- I am suggesting a change to how the ultimate is generated, regardless of the rate..... so.... yeah.. I guess read next time
- Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate.
- Burn , while true I think its fair of me to judge the mechanic they are adding given it is so simple it would be dang near impossible to somehow miss how "skillful" of a mechanic it is . Like really
- or in this case just some guy who got his feelings hurt when I said a lot of players are bad).
I am surprised that you did not think this many people would not understand you. You pretty much invited people to not understand your point.
I get your point, most of those additions I put were to hopefully avoid someone claiming X or Y (since I have been here long enough to expect them). Do you really blame me for how many different people have posted in here claiming I want aoe spam? I don't even know where that came from other than people not reading because no where in this thread has anyone (including myself) said we want 1.6 ulti system to be the most effective with aoe spams. Far from it in fact.
As to one of my points about why I can judge, where I am trying to go with this is I don't think we can afford to just wait and "well see how it pans out." This game has been out a year and we all are fully aware of how long it takes to get things rolled out. Given I am trying to suggest a completely different system, they do it now or they never do it (at least not for 6-12 months). It just doesn't make sense from a development standpoint to implement X and then replace it with Y quickly. They won't, I've played enough games to have my doubts about that.
And yes I have snapped back at some people, but once again how would you feel about people posting accusing you of things you clearly never said or implied... whatsoever. What else am I supposed to say other than ok this guy didn't read why is he even posting. Regardless I did not make this post to make friends, I'd hope an unbiased observer regardless of what they think of me (because frankly that doesn't matter) would read the suggestion if they were interested and make discussion. Some people have already poked good holes in some of my suggestions, others have added good additions. What drives me insane is someone who clearly didn't even attempt to read or understand.
And yes my final "back to your scheduled programming" is probably a little dickish, just trying to make a joke... I mean... have you read these forums? 0 -
Huntler✭✭✭✭✭
✭
the problem is that in result his attempt will end in a substitution of spamming X with spamming Y to build ulti. his system must include lockout timers of sth like 30++sec on each of his ulti build options to actual benefit intelligent gameplay (rotating through all ulti build options) otherwise its nothing but a substitution of spamming what ever activity building ult suits your gameplay the most.
actually... he does not seem to think that AoE spamming is the most "skillful" play. He only thinks (and I agree with that assessment) that it currently is the most effective play.We read just fine. We just laugh at clods who think aoe spamming constitutes skill, lol
@Huntler argues that replacing "brainless AoE spam" by "brainless light attack every couple seconds" as the most efficient means of Ultimate generation is not exactly beneficial to the game.
Instead, he petitions that "brainless AoE spam" should be replaced by "actually trying to play well" as the most efficient means of Ultimate generation.
I hope my rewording did not missrepresent the OPs intention and helped a few more folks understand them...
I agree and you bring up a good point, whatever mechanics are chosen or considered good play should not be something necessarily spammable. I think for the most part on my suggestions they aren't. I don't like the idea of an arbitrary lockout as most of these have "natural" lockouts as well. For example, you can only bash interrupt someone if they are casting a spell that is interruptable... thats not something you can just spam do and power up on ultimate for. In fact, it will create an atmosphere where the caster and basher need to be aware of that mechanic and appropriately try to counter each other.
Same goes with things like using a synergy (it has its own cooldown) and has to be available. Same goes for rezzes, only so many bodies can really be around and you are also making the conscious decision to rez instead of fight.
I definitely agree this system would have to avoid to the best it can ways to be exploited to fall back into what pre 1.6 ulti gen is (aoe spam), but in all honesty from what these kinds of games have taught me, there is always going to be the most optimal way to do something. Players will find it and use it to their advantage. Up until now it has been aoe spam to drive ultis up ASAP.0 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭I completely agree.
They took a communistic approach on ult gain.
No one likes communists.
Communism =/= balance. This whole knocking everything down to the lowest common denominator instead of raising skills and making other builds/classes/abilities on par so all feels epic and awesome, has got to stop.
Sure, fix unintended advantages given by unforeseen loopholes but as it stands, if the cycle of nerfing continues - it'll probably kill the game.
And I'd hate to see that happen. I love this game, I think it's gorgeously done and has so much potential to blow all it's competition out of the water.
I hope this is all just growing pains.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
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Chesimac✭✭✭✭Good thread OP. I can say I don't really like your personality and attitude but I'll try to forgot about that. This reasoning is sound, if a little premature considering the content hasn't hit PTS or live yet.1 -
Garion✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't have time to read the entire thread although what I will say is that based on what I know of this change is that it will very seriously impact gameplay for supportive players such as myself, whose focus is not light attack weaving but ensuring that the group stays up whatever happens.
I entirely agree with the OP that this is a heavy handed and simplistic solution to the problem that penalises the better players who are able to generate ulti at a faster rate.Lastobeth - VR16 Sorc - PvP Rank 41 (AD)
Lastoblyat - VR16 Templar - PvP Rank 14 (AD)
Ninja Pete - VR16 NB - PvP Rank 10 (AD)
Labo the Banana Slayer - VR14 Sorc - PvP Rank 12 (EP)
Member of Banana Squad | Officer of Arena0
appreciate that