Why 1.6 Ultimate Generation is a cop out

Morvul

NordJitsu wrote: »

Does no one remember the finesse system they talked about soon after announcing the development of the game?

http://elderscrollsonline.info/guides/finesse

It was supposed to not only be the way we generated Ultimate but also provide better XP and loot rewards for more skillful play.

They need to bring this back.

THIS!!!
@Zos_PaulSage, @ZoS_JessicaFolsom: Reducing the rate of ultimate generation is per se a reasonable idea. What I and apparently many other players are missing though, is a link between ultimate generation and "playing well".

The old concept of the finess system would provide exactly that.

DezIsDead

I agree skill should be rewarded, but then again I'm scrubalicious so my opinion only matters to me

Lhorion

@Huntler‌
I just red your answers and some else, but...
It seems you did not read very well.
The ulti system now is the same for everyone. What makes some people gaining ulti faster? Right! Passives, Using AE instead of Single Target, using Dots or using cost reduction (well.. last think helps you to activate your ulti faster, not gaining ulti points faster.
If one passive in the champion system is about stacking the buff with AE skills or Dot skills, we have the same oportunity to get our ulti ready.


By the way:: Doing light attacks often means not to block -> nees skill to get ulti points/stop your enemie to do this.

Joy_Division

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I understood the intention of the post just fine, but since you haven't even played with 1.6 yet, I just ignored most of it and plastered my random opinion over it.

Burn , while true I think its fair of me to judge the mechanic they are adding given it is so simple it would be dang near impossible to somehow miss how "skillful" of a mechanic it is . Like really

Absolutely, but on the other hand I think we should be careful with too many discussion about things we have not even experienced yet. I think the value of your post would have been higher if you would have waited until we all have toyed with 1.6 on the PTS or Live. The thread about Reflective Scales is also an example of this.

I'm not sure it is necessary to test the premise whether or not eating a cheeseburger after making a light attack should merit the same amount of ultimate as meaningfully contributing to a fight.

Domander

Huntler wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I think they had to do something as the current system simply allows ultimate gain too fast and ultimate get reduce to nothing more then a 6th skill slot that is strong.

I don't think they went far enough in nerfing ultimate generation. Ultimate should be hard to Gen, and should take awhile to fill, this means choosing when and where to use it becomes more important because once you use it, it will be awhile before you get enough points to use it again.

Personally I think they should just scrap ultimates all together and go back to TES once a day racial powers.

Yes once per in game day(however long the game times the passing of a day) you can activate a super strong ability, after that, it has a cool down like the powers in Oblivion and Skyrim did.

Orcs- Beserker Rage- for 30 seconds you take half damage from physical attacks and do double damage with physical attacks.

Breton- DragonSkin- for 30 seconds you absorb all incoming spell damage converting it to magi ka.

High Elf- High Born- recover 25% your maximum magicka every second for 30 seconds.

Argonian- Hist Skin- recover 25% of your max health every second for 30 seconds.

Redguard- Adrenaline Rush- recover 25% of your max stamina every second for 30 seconds.

Nord- Legacy of Ysgrammor- all weapon attacks ignore 75% of opponents armor and do 25% more damage, each successful hit restores 15% of max health and stamina. Lasts 20 seconds.

Dark Elf- Ancestor Guardian- summons a ghost of an ancestor to attack his opponent for 20 seconds. Ghost can not be damaged and each hit from the ghosts reduces opponents damage by 25% for 4 seconds. Also creates a fire cloak around the dark elf damaging anyone who gets close for 20 seconds.

Wood Elf - Call of the Wild- summons 2 bears and 2 tigers to fight for you for 20 seconds. Each hit by the summoned animals increases the wood elfs attack damage by 60% for 4 seconds.

Imperial - Voice of the Emperor- for 60 seconds all fights around you cease immediately, no one can attack anyone. Its a calm spell so its an escape like a cease fire.

These all make sense in lore, they are very very powerful, but can only be used once per day, so choosing wisely when to use them is important, when you do use them though you will make a big impact. This is how its always been from lore, each race has its own power unique to it, also makes choice of race more important and expands build options.

Just my take, I'd rather have ultra powerful racial powers I can use once a day over ultimates.

Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate. I am fine for the reduction, it is definitely better for the game as ulti spam to win fights is silly.

I'm asking for a more dynamic generation approach that rewards good gameplay and punishes bad (or at least doesn't reward bad play).

lol, you mean like it currently is?

Koensol

Domander wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I think they had to do something as the current system simply allows ultimate gain too fast and ultimate get reduce to nothing more then a 6th skill slot that is strong.

I don't think they went far enough in nerfing ultimate generation. Ultimate should be hard to Gen, and should take awhile to fill, this means choosing when and where to use it becomes more important because once you use it, it will be awhile before you get enough points to use it again.

Personally I think they should just scrap ultimates all together and go back to TES once a day racial powers.

Yes once per in game day(however long the game times the passing of a day) you can activate a super strong ability, after that, it has a cool down like the powers in Oblivion and Skyrim did.

Orcs- Beserker Rage- for 30 seconds you take half damage from physical attacks and do double damage with physical attacks.

Breton- DragonSkin- for 30 seconds you absorb all incoming spell damage converting it to magi ka.

High Elf- High Born- recover 25% your maximum magicka every second for 30 seconds.

Argonian- Hist Skin- recover 25% of your max health every second for 30 seconds.

Redguard- Adrenaline Rush- recover 25% of your max stamina every second for 30 seconds.

Nord- Legacy of Ysgrammor- all weapon attacks ignore 75% of opponents armor and do 25% more damage, each successful hit restores 15% of max health and stamina. Lasts 20 seconds.

Dark Elf- Ancestor Guardian- summons a ghost of an ancestor to attack his opponent for 20 seconds. Ghost can not be damaged and each hit from the ghosts reduces opponents damage by 25% for 4 seconds. Also creates a fire cloak around the dark elf damaging anyone who gets close for 20 seconds.

Wood Elf - Call of the Wild- summons 2 bears and 2 tigers to fight for you for 20 seconds. Each hit by the summoned animals increases the wood elfs attack damage by 60% for 4 seconds.

Imperial - Voice of the Emperor- for 60 seconds all fights around you cease immediately, no one can attack anyone. Its a calm spell so its an escape like a cease fire.

These all make sense in lore, they are very very powerful, but can only be used once per day, so choosing wisely when to use them is important, when you do use them though you will make a big impact. This is how its always been from lore, each race has its own power unique to it, also makes choice of race more important and expands build options.

Just my take, I'd rather have ultra powerful racial powers I can use once a day over ultimates.

Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate. I am fine for the reduction, it is definitely better for the game as ulti spam to win fights is silly.

I'm asking for a more dynamic generation approach that rewards good gameplay and punishes bad (or at least doesn't reward bad play).

lol, you mean like it currently is?

No, you dummy. The current spamming AoE's, dots and crits has nothing to do with good gameplay. Stop being so shortsighted and actually try to understand what the OP means.

Armitas

So I mentioned the Torug set bug changing the GCD of attacks and how that could be used to make a skill based system that rewards the player for properly timed attacks. Here is a video I made with a sub par computer showing some of the combo's that came out of it. The audio is a bit ahead of the video, and it's choppy, but you can kind of see what I am talking about. (don't want to hear any vid complaints, I know it's bad)

I found 2 hit combos, 3 hit combo's, 5 hit combos and 7 hit combos weaving heavy attacks with light attacks along with weaving skill attacks. They all required proper timing of your weapon swings to them pull off and the animations were awesome and powerful. Which stands in great contrast to the amateurish animation of the current 2hand light and heavy attacks. I would really like to see them take this old bug and turn it into a timing based combo system. One of the coolest parts about this bug was the timing was intuitive to how a sword would be used. When you swing a sword across you don't wait for it to die out on the other side, you flip your wrist and continue the momentum in reverse and this is the type of sword play that was showing up.

You can see the 2hit combo at :24 clearly while i'm trying to show a heavy attack. It's a heavy attack and a light attack in one. That is one of the few clear animations.

Huntler

Columba wrote: »

gibous wrote: »

Fully endorse this. Skill should be rewarded.

how is spamming aoe skillful? lol

someone didn't read.

Domander wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I think they had to do something as the current system simply allows ultimate gain too fast and ultimate get reduce to nothing more then a 6th skill slot that is strong.

I don't think they went far enough in nerfing ultimate generation. Ultimate should be hard to Gen, and should take awhile to fill, this means choosing when and where to use it becomes more important because once you use it, it will be awhile before you get enough points to use it again.

Personally I think they should just scrap ultimates all together and go back to TES once a day racial powers.

Yes once per in game day(however long the game times the passing of a day) you can activate a super strong ability, after that, it has a cool down like the powers in Oblivion and Skyrim did.

Orcs- Beserker Rage- for 30 seconds you take half damage from physical attacks and do double damage with physical attacks.

Breton- DragonSkin- for 30 seconds you absorb all incoming spell damage converting it to magi ka.

High Elf- High Born- recover 25% your maximum magicka every second for 30 seconds.

Argonian- Hist Skin- recover 25% of your max health every second for 30 seconds.

Redguard- Adrenaline Rush- recover 25% of your max stamina every second for 30 seconds.

Nord- Legacy of Ysgrammor- all weapon attacks ignore 75% of opponents armor and do 25% more damage, each successful hit restores 15% of max health and stamina. Lasts 20 seconds.

Dark Elf- Ancestor Guardian- summons a ghost of an ancestor to attack his opponent for 20 seconds. Ghost can not be damaged and each hit from the ghosts reduces opponents damage by 25% for 4 seconds. Also creates a fire cloak around the dark elf damaging anyone who gets close for 20 seconds.

Wood Elf - Call of the Wild- summons 2 bears and 2 tigers to fight for you for 20 seconds. Each hit by the summoned animals increases the wood elfs attack damage by 60% for 4 seconds.

Imperial - Voice of the Emperor- for 60 seconds all fights around you cease immediately, no one can attack anyone. Its a calm spell so its an escape like a cease fire.

These all make sense in lore, they are very very powerful, but can only be used once per day, so choosing wisely when to use them is important, when you do use them though you will make a big impact. This is how its always been from lore, each race has its own power unique to it, also makes choice of race more important and expands build options.

Just my take, I'd rather have ultra powerful racial powers I can use once a day over ultimates.

Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate. I am fine for the reduction, it is definitely better for the game as ulti spam to win fights is silly.

I'm asking for a more dynamic generation approach that rewards good gameplay and punishes bad (or at least doesn't reward bad play).

lol, you mean like it currently is?

Someone didn't read

Koensol wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

I think they had to do something as the current system simply allows ultimate gain too fast and ultimate get reduce to nothing more then a 6th skill slot that is strong.

I don't think they went far enough in nerfing ultimate generation. Ultimate should be hard to Gen, and should take awhile to fill, this means choosing when and where to use it becomes more important because once you use it, it will be awhile before you get enough points to use it again.

Personally I think they should just scrap ultimates all together and go back to TES once a day racial powers.

Yes once per in game day(however long the game times the passing of a day) you can activate a super strong ability, after that, it has a cool down like the powers in Oblivion and Skyrim did.

Orcs- Beserker Rage- for 30 seconds you take half damage from physical attacks and do double damage with physical attacks.

Breton- DragonSkin- for 30 seconds you absorb all incoming spell damage converting it to magi ka.

High Elf- High Born- recover 25% your maximum magicka every second for 30 seconds.

Argonian- Hist Skin- recover 25% of your max health every second for 30 seconds.

Redguard- Adrenaline Rush- recover 25% of your max stamina every second for 30 seconds.

Nord- Legacy of Ysgrammor- all weapon attacks ignore 75% of opponents armor and do 25% more damage, each successful hit restores 15% of max health and stamina. Lasts 20 seconds.

Dark Elf- Ancestor Guardian- summons a ghost of an ancestor to attack his opponent for 20 seconds. Ghost can not be damaged and each hit from the ghosts reduces opponents damage by 25% for 4 seconds. Also creates a fire cloak around the dark elf damaging anyone who gets close for 20 seconds.

Wood Elf - Call of the Wild- summons 2 bears and 2 tigers to fight for you for 20 seconds. Each hit by the summoned animals increases the wood elfs attack damage by 60% for 4 seconds.

Imperial - Voice of the Emperor- for 60 seconds all fights around you cease immediately, no one can attack anyone. Its a calm spell so its an escape like a cease fire.

These all make sense in lore, they are very very powerful, but can only be used once per day, so choosing wisely when to use them is important, when you do use them though you will make a big impact. This is how its always been from lore, each race has its own power unique to it, also makes choice of race more important and expands build options.

Just my take, I'd rather have ultra powerful racial powers I can use once a day over ultimates.

Allow me to repeat again since people don't seem to understand, I am not petitioning for a reversal of nerf to ulti gain rate, I am petitioning the how, not at what speed or rate. I am fine for the reduction, it is definitely better for the game as ulti spam to win fights is silly.

I'm asking for a more dynamic generation approach that rewards good gameplay and punishes bad (or at least doesn't reward bad play).

lol, you mean like it currently is?

No, you dummy. The current spamming AoE's, dots and crits has nothing to do with good gameplay. Stop being so shortsighted and actually try to understand what the OP means.

This, I'm happy that a majority of the people reading this post understand what I am saying... but seriously flabbergasted by the obvious either trolls or people who just didn't read the thread at all and instead immediately assume the absolutely opposite thing of what I am suggesting....
Not surprised given some of the names though I guess...

AhPook_Is_Here

I don't mind the upcoming changes. 1.6 looks pretty good to me. They really should remove all the hostile NPCs around Cyrodiil as they will be the new healing springs. They should also make it so keep/resource/outpost npcs don't provide the ULT buff on hit.

There will be work-arounds for bomb groups, it's quite obvious how to exploit the new system, instead of tower farm there will be "grey-daggers" farm, or "reavers" farm or "zombie" farm.

Telel

This one is arriving fashionably late to the party and begs humble forgiveness if they too 'did not read'.

I think that perhaps the idea for generating ultimate on a bash interrupt has merit. However khajiit would not want to see ranged interrupts do so as well as those are already spammed so frequently.

Telel did not see but they would also think that having a way to share ultimate generation across a group would be good. Unless that is already a thing.

For example us werewolves generate ultimate as people beat on us, and if part of that was distributed to other pack members then it would help alleviate the burden it takes to build up to a tranformation. Especially when combined with the PVP passive that gives us ultimate for each kill.

Darkonflare15

To be honest, I would like to see how this ultimate generation works first before producing an idea that can be abuse just as much as it now. They stated they did it this way so they can figure out exactly where ultimate was coming from. There was plenty of bugs since launch where people where gaining ultimate too fast because of certain skills, too much crit, or from areas they could not figure out. This brought up miscommunication between the development teams. They could not figure out if the skill suppose to bring out this much ultimate, thus we have several nerfs in the past that nerf ultimate gain because of bugs or unintended consequences.

They made a system that if a bug occur they can quickly find to solution instead of walking around the dark. Now they did this with the new buff and debuff consolation which I think is intuitive because it makes skills special not because of their buffs but their secondary effect and it prevents people from stacking too many skills for one purpose like gaining ultimate. So I cannot wait to see how this turn outs.

RedTalon

Less spammers and those who spam aoe being ticked off by this and zerg guilds and the like, means its a good thing in my book.

Poxheart

Huntler wrote: »

In essence I am trying to change the "meta" of the best players spam aoes to gain ulti to the best players use certain mechanics, abilities, and positioning to gain ulti and thus further affect the battle.

I believe this is the sentence from your original post that many folks have focused on.

As a few others have said, I'd rather wait & test the new system before proposing alternatives.

Huntler

Poxheart wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

In essence I am trying to change the "meta" of the best players spam aoes to gain ulti to the best players use certain mechanics, abilities, and positioning to gain ulti and thus further affect the battle.

I believe this is the sentence from your original post that many folks have focused on.

As a few others have said, I'd rather wait & test the new system before proposing alternatives.

Think you may be right and that people got their egos in a tizzy about me saying what the current meta of "best" players is, I probably should have worded it slightly differently as to not hurt feelings (used "most effective" instead).

Joy_Division

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I don't mind the upcoming changes. 1.6 looks pretty good to me. They really should remove all the hostile NPCs around Cyrodiil as they will be the new healing springs. They should also make it so keep/resource/outpost npcs don't provide the ULT buff on hit.

There will be work-arounds for bomb groups, it's quite obvious how to exploit the new system, instead of tower farm there will be "grey-daggers" farm, or "reavers" farm or "zombie" farm.

While it is commendable to try to prevent exploits, sometimes battles against Cyrodiil NPCs are "legitimate." I maybe questing. I might be in a moderately difficult public dungeon by myself. Maybe a small team of 3 or 4 is trying to take a key enemy resource for strategic reasons.

Lava_Croft

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

To be honest, I would like to see how this ultimate generation works first before producing an idea that can be abuse just as much as it now. They stated they did it this way so they can figure out exactly where ultimate was coming from. There was plenty of bugs since launch where people where gaining ultimate too fast because of certain skills, too much crit, or from areas they could not figure out. This brought up miscommunication between the development teams. They could not figure out if the skill suppose to bring out this much ultimate, thus we have several nerfs in the past that nerf ultimate gain because of bugs or unintended consequences.

They made a system that if a bug occur they can quickly find to solution instead of walking around the dark. Now they did this with the new buff and debuff consolation which I think is intuitive because it makes skills special not because of their buffs but their secondary effect and it prevents people from stacking too many skills for one purpose like gaining ultimate. So I cannot wait to see how this turn outs.

Read this post.

Huntler

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

To be honest, I would like to see how this ultimate generation works first before producing an idea that can be abuse just as much as it now. They stated they did it this way so they can figure out exactly where ultimate was coming from. There was plenty of bugs since launch where people where gaining ultimate too fast because of certain skills, too much crit, or from areas they could not figure out. This brought up miscommunication between the development teams. They could not figure out if the skill suppose to bring out this much ultimate, thus we have several nerfs in the past that nerf ultimate gain because of bugs or unintended consequences.

They made a system that if a bug occur they can quickly find to solution instead of walking around the dark. Now they did this with the new buff and debuff consolation which I think is intuitive because it makes skills special not because of their buffs but their secondary effect and it prevents people from stacking too many skills for one purpose like gaining ultimate. So I cannot wait to see how this turn outs.

Read this post.

I read it, no worries. I think its a convoluted way of looking at it, either from a player or dev perspective. Ask any of the players who play in highly coordinated groups, we know exactly what abilities are giving the best ultimate and why, it is no mystery. The only people it may be a mystery to are the players who have not taken the time to either research or test it themsevles and all of the rules behind them currently make sense (whether they are balanced is another story). The post you quoted seems to make it sound as if the suggestions I made aren't also just as simple to implement/understand. I welcome them to use the same buff system, just make the buff apply when you make a "skill/beneifical play" instead of a light attack. That or they could make it as simple as how some passives already work in this game.... Do X gain Y ultimate. Simple, elegant, completely idiot proof (I won't say easy to debug because I find it laughable that anyone here can claim something in a game/system they've never even seen is easy to debug.... and yes I get it you're a decade experienced software developer...).

A simplified system is a dumb system, it is bad for a game that tries to have a competitive PvP system since simple systems lead to boring game play. You reward the good players, you don't dumb it down to the point that a monkey could do it.


And yes I get it some of you want to play the "wait and see approach." Given its been a year and how slowly things react you have to be proactive about these kind of changes. You can't sit back and expect it to all fix itself eventually, the development period is too long and they have likely been working on this particular idea for months already, changing it again just isn't feasible for them... its now or not for a very, very long time. In the meantime we will be stuck with a system that lowers the already ridiculously low skill ceiling of this game which will lead to boring game play, I'm not here to play hello kitty everybody wins online. I will also mention for those who say well you won't know how it turns out.... it really is that simple of a system that yes I do. We've all played this game enough that it is fairly obvious where this will lead and it won't be any different from what many of you complain about already. See you all in blood spawn next month err I mean 1.6. :eyeroll:

Poxheart

That's the point though, the system is already dumbed down to the point that a monkey can do it. Hence Columba's incessant "chimp spam" comments.

I'd like to see ultimate generation be similar to the way it was in WAR where you'd generate ultimate just by being in combat (and would lose it when out of combat). At least then getting stuck in combat for 5 minutes after a fight would be beneficial!

Huntler

Poxheart wrote: »

That's the point though, the system is already dumbed down to the point that a monkey can do it. Hence Columba's incessant "chimp spam" comments.

I'd like to see ultimate generation be similar to the way it was in WAR where you'd generate ultimate just by being in combat (and would lose it when out of combat). At least then getting stuck in combat for 5 minutes after a fight would be beneficial!

We are definitely in agreement that the current system is bad for gameplay, I played WAR for many years and actually enjoyed it, aside from its problems. The system there worked, but for the type of player I am I enjoy anything put in a game that gives me more decisions, choices, and allows us to differentiate. Hell its the whole reason I'm a healer as in most PvP games I've played, healers tend to have the possibility of a big impact on a fight. The difference between a bad and good dps never felt as big a difference between a bad and good healer. Thats what I want here, sure staying in combat is a fair and linear system that has been shown to work, but I want something to further push players to be better. The added benefit is to fix other things people complain about, rezzing players as an example. Even pugs would get rezzes from organized groups in battle if it gave ultimate. It is trying to put focus on things players should do in the right situation. Reward players for their strategic though, awareness of the battlefield, contribution to the battle aside from damage spam, etc. Once again I know I keep saying it, but a simple light attack buff to allow linear rate of gain is so horribly boring and bad for a game that has trouble pushing a player's limits to begin with.

Rylana

At this point, I dont really care what they do with ultimate gen so long as its no longer "spam healing springs in a corner all huddled up for a minute before dumping 20 ults in the same spot, repeat as needed"

Roechacca

Hunter wants only skilled players to be able to generate Ultimate quickly . He doesn't want every Tom , *** & Hairy able to spam a few light N heavy attacks and getting a Ultimate just as fast as him . Is that about right Huntler ?

Roechacca

Really ?! *** is a blocked word ? My friend Richard would be very upset about now ....

Huntler

roechacca wrote: »

Hunter wants only skilled players to be able to generate Ultimate quickly . He doesn't want every Tom , *** & Hairy able to spam a few light N heavy attacks and getting a Ultimate just as fast as him . Is that about right Huntler ?

Nice rewording, I want good plays to be rewarded with ultimate instead of light/heavy attack spam. Lot of people getting really defensive and passive aggressive, this isn't about your ego. I am not claiming anyone here is bad or whatever you think I am doing.


Note: I define good plays as plays that take awareness of the battle, positioning, saving people, etc. Examples would be rezzing someone in a combat situation, bash interrupting an enemy, etc. I am open to debate on what would be the best list of things that would count as a good/beneficial play that should be rewarded.

Roechacca

Huntler wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Hunter wants only skilled players to be able to generate Ultimate quickly . He doesn't want every Tom , *** & Hairy able to spam a few light N heavy attacks and getting a Ultimate just as fast as him . Is that about right Huntler ?

Nice rewording, I want good plays to be rewarded with ultimate instead of light/heavy attack spam. Lot of people getting really defensive and passive aggressive, this isn't about your ego. I am not claiming anyone here is bad or whatever you think I am doing.

Never said you were . Here's the problem . It's used in PvE . Some kids and adults play that aren't the best . Some people RP . Combat is last on their list of learning . ZOS has to consider their over all audience . For You as you put it "Hello Kitty mode" happens to be the average player . I'm not knocking what you want , it's your right . You just have to consider the larger population of subscribers when targeting reasons ZOS makes .

Roechacca

I read your Edit Huntler . I even personally agree it would be more enjoyable for most skilled players in combat . In all honesty though , ZOS most likely made their decision based on "Casual" game play . Which I can live with because I understand why . I doubt it was a "Cop out" by ZOS Devs but more of a "how can we make this for everyone" sort of thing .

Huntler

roechacca wrote: »

I read your Edit Huntler . I even personally agree it would be more enjoyable for most skilled players in combat . In all honesty though , ZOS most likely made their decision based on "Casual" game play . Which I can live with because I understand why . I doubt it was a "Cop out" by ZOS Devs but more of a "how can we make this for everyone" sort of thing .

Makes me a sad panda

Sylvyr

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

LOL at the premise that "the best players" are the ones that spam AOE abilities to gain ultimate.

Entire guilds are built around spamming as much batswarms as possible because it's skillful.

I'd say effective is a better way to describe bat spam.

A lot of actions described in this thread are easy to do and don't take much skill or thought like AoE spamming and swarming. They really shouldn't contribute to ult gain based on a skill-reward system IMHO.

I think the buff idea is a decent base to start with but then add team and goal oriented activities as well as actions/combinations per character basis that truly involve skill should add to ult gain as well. Trick will be (as usual) having a decent balance/opportunity amongst classes.

Poxheart

@Huntler, I agree with you that in most other MMOs healers make a tremendous impact on the outcome of fights. Unfortunately, player skill isn't really part of the equation thanks to ESO's 'smart' healing system. I'm sure a few more of my guildies would still be playing ESO if the healing system was better than it is. When we pvp together, the one healer from my guild that still plays frequently comments about how he tried to keep a group mate from dying, but his heal went to some nearby rando.

Huntler

Poxheart wrote: »

@Huntler, I agree with you that in most other MMOs healers make a tremendous impact on the outcome of fights. Unfortunately, player skill isn't really part of the equation thanks to ESO's 'smart' healing system. I'm sure a few more of my guildies would still be playing ESO if the healing system was better than it is. When we pvp together, the one healer from my guild that still plays frequently comments about how he tried to keep a group mate from dying, but his heal went to some nearby rando.

Oh god please don't get me started on smart healing... gonna get me banned....

Messorem

Differentiate is the wrong word. Just saying. Wrong context.