Gear, itemisation, forthcoming season gear - Are you content with relying on RNG?

Teiji · January 2015

In order to acquire gear in TESO, you will kill an enemy NPC for a chance at getting an item to drop, complete a quest and be rewarded with an item(s) we are also able to acquire items from treasure chests, crates and the like.

You can also acquire Alliance Points in Cyrodiil which you can use to buy gear such as Jewellery, light, medium, heavy armor and various different weapons. Also, during your time in Cyrodiil, participating in PVP will reward you with a mail which includes gold and various items, this includes some of the gear you can actually purchase with Alliance Points, naturally, at a quality which is less than the bought quality.

With the recent Undaunted gear as well as forthcoming gear such as the yet-to-be-introduced season gear, such as this Ebonheart Pact PVP gear pictured below -

With the obvious said. Are you content with with Cyrodiil being the only place where you can acquire gear through multiple routes?

For example,

Player A want's a Greatsword which can be bought with 1000 Alliance Points or may possibly be received in a mail from participating in PVP.

Player A currently has 700 Alliance Points and decides to PVP for a couple hours in order to take both routes in order to potentially acquire Greatsword. Later, player A realises they have 2000 Alliance Points, they then buy the Greatsword from an NPC Vendor with 1000 Alliance Points.

With Undaunted, you may and in some cases already have, acquired duplicate gear from chests. Exactly the same as an item you received the day before from a Gold key, the 'Undaunted Quartermaster' as it stands, provides little importance in order to assist players with itemisation specifically pertaining to Undaunted, you are unable to exchange your duplicate items for the same item with a different trait, armor type and so on. You may however, repair items, purchase potions as well as

You are stuck with the possibility of acquiring the same item, same armor type with the same trait, time and time again.

With the Alliance Point system and PVP Cyrodiil vendors, this is not the case as you're guaranteed to be able to acquire an item through accumulating Alliance Points. It's convenient and helpful whilst offering security that you'll be able to play occasionally whilst definitely being able to acquire good gear like everyone else.

I'm certain and confident that ZoS is fully capable of working out how itemisation could be more convenient with regards to Undaunted, I.E the ability to interact with the Undaunted Quartermaster where they'll change that Sturdy trait to Divines, Well-Fitted, Exploration or even Impenetrable, paid with currency X, being gold or something else or whatever, but I digress.

Are you satisfied with how much of a deciding factor RNG is to many players of The Elder Scrolls Online that wish to acquire various different items in-game, whilst simultaneously having no other option other than relying on RNG rolls? I say, "to many players" as some players do enjoy the ability to purchase gear with Alliance Points in Cyrodiil, myself included.

Current itemisation options

Veteran Dungeons
Trials
Dark Anchor rare generals
Treasure chests for set-items
Cyrodiil - [Player versus player]

As every class in this game has the ability to use every weapon and wear every armor type. This is an MMORPG where there are no Class quests, quests which reward you with gear that only your class can use.

With this, no class gear, no "artifact" gear for your class and so on, there instead is light, heavy and medium armor available for players to obtain from the areas listed before, to name several. The "gear-chase" that many have come to call, is awkward at best, with crafted gear being so strong and the droprate on many items being so aggressive, the convenience and accessibility of using extremely-strong and practical crafted set-gear, more times than not, outweighs the desire to run several thousand Dark Anchors and Veteran Dungeons for drops that look unique, but besides this are trumped in efficiency by other gear with higher drop-rates.

Veteran Dungeons

In Veteran Dungeons there is one set of light, medium and heavy. There are seven pieces for each, the maximum set bonus you can obtain is "5", each piece fits in one of the armor slots. This does not includ jewellery nor shield.

The following items drop from the three 'main' bosses from the following Veteran Dungeons,

Banished Cells [Maw of the infernal, Keeper Imiril, High Kinlord Rilis]
Spindleclutch [Blood Spawn, Praxin Douare, end boss]
Fungal Crotto [Gamyne Bandu, Spawn of Mephala, Vila Theran]
Darkshade Caverns [Hive Lord, Grubul, end boss]
Elden Hollow [Dark Root, Murklight, Bogdan]
Wayrest Sewers [Malubeth, Garron, end bosses]

Light -

Medium -

Heavy -

NotSo · January 2015

I'm ok with it but a change to something more dependable is also welcome.

Lord_Draevan · January 2015

Teiji wrote: »

Hot damn, I want that Pact armor

I really hope that the new Pact/Dominion/Covenant gear is unique for each faction, the current ones are identical for each faction, only have different names.

DeLindsay · January 2015

I've always hate RNG, but I equally hate Need/Greed as well as that system gets abused. A very simple way ZoS could fix it is like me and others have suggested multiple times. Each time you loot a thing, the game adds 1% drop rate. Once you loot the thing you were after the loot rate resets to normal and the cycle begins again.

Natjur · January 2015

Tokens.
Have it were you can trade in your random loot for tokens and X tokens allows you to buy what you want.

So you COULD get what you want from the random reward\drop, (if lucky) but if you have bad luck you can trade in the multi drops for tokens and get what you want. (It might take 10 times as long but you will get what you want in the end)

The games take have tokens seem to work well .

Now tokens would be like the current alliance point system, but I think it should be a different currency.

At the moment, you have gold and alliance points, so why not add a new one tokens\loot points. But you have to be careful and not go nuts like some games with have 10+ different currency systems. Maybe even link it to the current crafting system and have the Undaunted gear and season gear when you break it down at a crafting station that it gives you the tokens directly from the breakdown of the armor and some crafters can use this to remake Undaunted gear and season gear with the stats\traits you are after?

ItsGlaive · January 2015

Natjur wrote: »

Tokens.
Have it were you can trade in your random loot for tokens and X tokens allows you to buy what you want.

So you COULD get what you want from the random reward\drop, (if lucky) but if you have bad luck you can trade in the multi drops for tokens and get what you want. (It might take 10 times as long but you will get what you want in the end)

The games take have tokens seem to work well .

Now tokens would be like the current alliance point system, but I think it should be a different currency.

At the moment, you have gold and alliance points, so why not add a new one tokens\loot points. But you have to be careful and not go nuts like some games with have 10+ different currency systems.

Or a lore-appropriate interpretation of tokens - blueprint scraps perhaps? One whole blueprint for each piece or something?

Psychobunni · January 2015

Kinda shocked this poll hasn't gotten more traction. I too much prefer a token system where if I have to run xxxx dungeon xx times to get xxx gear I'm after.

I don't need 50 pieces of other sets, styles, etc...especially since their value doesn't match the path getting them (time, food, pots)

Rev Rielle · January 2015

Tava's tears, please, no Token system!
They basically rip the soul of enjoyment out of any MMO.

kieso · January 2015

token system was nice in GW2

Natjur · January 2015

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Tava's tears, please, no Token system!
They basically rip the soul of enjoyment out of any MMO.

So you prefer just random luck with loot instead?

Sotha_Sil · January 2015

RNG is a system that is too old for MMO these days as the player base is ageing. However, as there is nothing else to do in ESO I get why we still have it.

I find it horribly stupid as some sets (like the VR12 with group buffs of magicka, health) are just impossible to get. But I guess we will have to cope with this until they fix it and have a better idea (that might come with the seasonal gear at the end of VR ranks !!)

JLB · January 2015

I voted blue, but I would like to specify.
No to a limited 100% RNG loot system - like Undaunted shoulders. If you could run 3 vet dailies, I'd be happy with it. But 1 shot a day at the right shoulders + trait is way too much. Some people get it straight away, for some other takes ages, or never. That is the most unfair system ever.

On the other hand, I've played a token system aswell in other MMOs and it's cold and boring. Grind this X times and get it.
No thank you.

There must be a middle ground between both systems.

Teiji · January 2015

Okay so after going back over 2014 QuakeCon I've got some more glorious text to provide to this thread.

Taken from the Champion System section at 47 minutes 30 seconds into the video, I'll provide a link in this post for convenience;

"The new armor, the new items you'll get in the game are going to come in with the new content, you might even think of this like seasons.

And these new weapons will actually be available at any one given season, so, if we introduced the Imperial City as an example. We might introduce new weapons and the rarity of those weapons, the availability of those in Imperial City is what's going keep them a little bit more rare.

Now any content that was released before Imperial City, Champion items, weapons or armor, that content is going to have been around longer, they're going to be in the economy more and we might even sell those items directly to players and what that enables us to do is it says, 'nobody is going to fall behind the item chase, but there's still going to be an item chase'..."

Link to QuakeCon video 47 minutes 30 seconds in -

http://youtu.be/_Jk7LrLgRfg?t=47m30s

As it stands we can already do someone similar, we can purchase repair kits and several siege weapons from pvp Alliance Vendors for alliance points or gold.

As Sotha_Sil mentioned, the VR Dungeon gear sets which have been in-game since launch have a droprate which is odd to say the least and only drop from the three main bosses from each applicable Veteran Dungeon, City of Ash and Crypt of Hearts Veteran for example, will not drop any of the items from the Worm Cult, Ebon Armory nor Hircines Saviour set.

I'm hopeful for news on this after we've received the huge update which is Update 6 and the Champion System that goes with it.

The security that comes from being able to acquire gear in this game, from RNG as well as a 'currency' system which you can have the security of knowing accumulating this 'currency' will allow you to get items in the game you enjoy within a single life-time.
As Paul Sage mentioned in the video, it's something that they have acknowledged. I say this but it's likely to be something similiar to what I actually think, as it will only apply to "season gear", or something.

I mention 'currency', in my mind this translates to being able to purchase an item with gold, alliance points, invest-time where you acquire an item but exchange it for a different item, do activities that grant reputation [this would translate to guild level in TESO, as it stands currently] which eventually would allow you to purchase items at a high price of an in-game currency with these examples said to name a few, etcetera. I expect ZoS to already have some ideas, hopefully they'll share them soon and know many of us are patiently waiting for said informations.

DDuke · January 2015

No, I'm not happy how the system is currently working (having to depend on random luck so much).

How I'd tweak it:

Introduce a Need/Greed system, but only for the most difficult content, e.g. SO & DSA (and the upcoming difficult raids/dungeons not meant for pugs).
Create a token or reputation system for the Undaunted gear, and anything else that requires running easy pug dungeons.
Leave the rest as it is, with personal loot.

This way you get rid of 99% of the "ninja looting" (since need/greed would be only for non-puggable instances), and you wouldn't have to rely on random chance with the "easy, but frustrating to get gear".

Furthermore, I'd make some changes to the traditional Need/Greed system, and allow group leader to negate a roll by kicking the player from the grp (reinviting him would allow him to roll again). This, to get rid of "accidents"

Teiji · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

No, I'm not happy how the system is currently working (having to depend on random luck so much).

How I'd tweak it:
Introduce a Need/Greed system, but only for the most difficult content, e.g. SO & DSA (and the upcoming difficult raids/dungeons not meant for pugs).

Create a token or reputation system for the Undaunted gear, and anything else that requires running easy pug dungeons.

Leave the rest as it is, with personal loot.

This way you get rid of 99% of the "ninja looting" (since need/greed would be only for non-puggable instances), and you wouldn't have to rely on random chance with the "easy, but frustrating to get gear".

Furthermore, I'd make some changes to the traditional Need/Greed system, and allow group leader to negate a roll by kicking the player from the grp (reinviting him would allow him to roll again). This, to get rid of "accidents"

I don't understand, all drops are instanced to each individual player. Each player gets their "own" loot.

What exactly are you suggesting with a "Need/Greed system"? Would you be kind enough to explain please?

dietlime · January 2015

I think having guaranteed quest rewards that are partial sets would be cool. You could allow the play to choose which piece of the set.

Septimus_Magna · January 2015

The problem is RNG is the easiest way to make items rare and still give players who have limited time a chance to get these items. With tokens some items wont be rare and other systems just encourage grinding imo.

I think they should have RNG but when you wear a piece of a incomplete set you have increased chance of getting the other piece.

NadiusMaximus · January 2015

Rng in this game sucks. I won't rely on it.

Today I finally got a set of warlock shoulders. YES! till I noticed they were vlvl1, not 12 or 14 like every other piece of *** loot I picked up that day.

Why is everything else lvl 12 or 14, except the one God dawned thing I actually want. Rng my ass, it's a time sink/ waste of time. Rage quit switch is warming up over this bs.

Circuitous · January 2015

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Rng in this game sucks. I won't rely on it.

Today I finally got a set of warlock shoulders. YES! till I noticed they were vlvl1, not 12 or 14 like every other piece of *** loot I picked up that day.

Why is everything else lvl 12 or 14, except the one God dawned thing I actually want. Rng my ass, it's a time sink/ waste of time. Rage quit switch is warming up over this bs.

V1 loot drops from V1 areas...? Where were you farming?

As for loot systems... I don't love tokens, but pure RNG is garbage. Having a goal is better when you can see yourself making progress towards it. I've run dozens of dungeons since 1.5 dropped and I've gotten one helmet and one shoulder piece. Not even the same set, and neither are the type of armor I actually use. That's not satisfying, nor does it really compel me to keep working at it.

I just don't have the time or patience to keep doing something with absolutely no guarantee that I'll get what I'm after, ever. So I like tokens in general. I also really like the idea of gear being pure RNG for a while and then being put up for purchase somehow, as was mentioned with the "seasons" talk. Both of those are far and away better than what we have now. Then again, almost anything would be.

TheShadowScout · January 2015

I kinda dislike need/greed systems, from my experience with them from other games. Either everyone "needs" everything, and clicking the roll is just an annoyance, or people argue about who needs what more when the roll doesn't go their way, or people get terribly frustrated when they miss the twelfth "one-in-four" roll in a row (that would be me, usually)

The only way it would be neat is a mixed roll/token system with the game giving out tokens for choosing the lesser roll options. Need - highest chance at the stuff, no token, Greed - lesser chance at the stuff, and one (or more, depending on how much stuff costs) token, Pass - no stuff but more tokens. That way people might actually stay honest, as long as the tokens are more valuable then selling some loot in your guild store...

NadiusMaximus · January 2015

Circuitous wrote: »

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Rng in this game sucks. I won't rely on it.

Today I finally got a set of warlock shoulders. YES! till I noticed they were vlvl1, not 12 or 14 like every other piece of *** loot I picked up that day.

Why is everything else lvl 12 or 14, except the one God dawned thing I actually want. Rng my ass, it's a time sink/ waste of time. Rage quit switch is warming up over this bs.

V1 loot drops from V1 areas...? Where were you farming?

As for loot systems... I don't love tokens, but pure RNG is garbage. Having a goal is better when you can see yourself making progress towards it. I've run dozens of dungeons since 1.5 dropped and I've gotten one helmet and one shoulder piece. Not even the same set, and neither are the type of armor I actually use. That's not satisfying, nor does it really compel me to keep working at it.

I just don't have the time or patience to keep doing something with absolutely no guarantee that I'll get what I'm after, ever. So I like tokens in general. I also really like the idea of gear being pure RNG for a while and then being put up for purchase somehow, as was mentioned with the "seasons" talk. Both of those are far and away better than what we have now. Then again, almost anything would be.

Craglorn somewhere. Guy a dropped v12, guy b five feet away dropped v14, guy c 20ft away dropped v1.

Same thing happened in Cyrodil, my rewards were v1, v12, and v14. I've gotten some really screwed up rewards.

Septimus_Magna · January 2015

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Rng in this game sucks. I won't rely on it.

Today I finally got a set of warlock shoulders. YES! till I noticed they were vlvl1, not 12 or 14 like every other piece of *** loot I picked up that day.

Why is everything else lvl 12 or 14, except the one God dawned thing I actually want. Rng my ass, it's a time sink/ waste of time. Rage quit switch is warming up over this bs.

Warlock vr12 pieces drop all the time in AA, if you run it 5 times you're sure to have at least one piece. Plus they are only 2k in most guild stores so you can easily buy them if you really need them. It might be useful to investigate where you need to farm the items you want so you dont waste time farming in the wrong location. For me the RNG never felt to be out of balance but I maybe Im just lucky.

Audigy · January 2015

I don't like seasons and the demand to run trials or grind dungeons to get gear. No matter if its a token or a random drop, it equally demands grinding and I hate MMOs that offer this.

To me a dungeon is done once I cleared it, no point in going back drinking old coffee.

Crafting should always be equal to dungeons or trials, so that people have a choice what they want to do. Let the grinders run the same dungeon for tokens, points or whatever - if its fun for them then so be it. However, I never want to experience such a lifeless and boring system ever again in an MMO.

Circuitous · January 2015

Audigy wrote: »

I don't like seasons and the demand to run trials or grind dungeons to get gear. No matter if its a token or a random drop, it equally demands grinding and I hate MMOs that offer this.

To me a dungeon is done once I cleared it, no point in going back drinking old coffee.

Crafting should always be equal to dungeons or trials, so that people have a choice what they want to do. Let the grinders run the same dungeon for tokens, points or whatever - if its fun for them then so be it. However, I never want to experience such a lifeless and boring system ever again in an MMO.

No offense but ESO crafting is infinitely more lifeless and boring than repeated dungeon runs.

NadiusMaximus · January 2015

Post self deleted for spreading negatives.

Just sit back and chill. Sure they told us something, then didn't fulfill it. It's not the first time it's ever happened. It's a game, who cares. I'm looking forward to the advancements and improvements coming soon.

Swallows blue pill.

AlexDougherty · January 2015

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Swallows blue pill.

A blue pill? not a triangular blue pill is it??

Yes I got the matrix reference, but I also got an accidental Viagra reference

NadiusMaximus · January 2015

^^^^winner first legit lol of the year. ^^^^^^^

eliisra · January 2015

Take it from someone that's handed in over 120 gold keys and still don't have Engine Guardian shoulders. Or the fact that I completed almost 200 VR dungeons and I still dont have more than 3 pieces of Wormcult.

Or how about when you achieve top 2% on a 30 day PvP campaign and not a single Master's weapon from the reward?

Rng in ESO sucks. Worse loot reward system I have ever encounter. If this is the future, seasonal gear being distributed based on luck, some of us will be stuck in crafted gear for life.

For the record, I'm fine with crafted gear being comparable to drops. I dont want a game with gear disparity or huge lack of balance between lowest- and highest tier. But I like itemization, I want to test out new gear sets and integrate them in different builds. That's a big fun factor for me. In ESO I cant, because I lack luck and there's no other ways to obtain things.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · January 2015

Just be patient and buy what you want from the kiosks. It is usually there within the month and prices drop fast once it is there.

Bloodystab · January 2015

Would be cool to loot or receive as reward crafting items that allows you to create what you want.

DDuke · January 2015

Teiji wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

No, I'm not happy how the system is currently working (having to depend on random luck so much).

How I'd tweak it:
Introduce a Need/Greed system, but only for the most difficult content, e.g. SO & DSA (and the upcoming difficult raids/dungeons not meant for pugs).

Create a token or reputation system for the Undaunted gear, and anything else that requires running easy pug dungeons.

Leave the rest as it is, with personal loot.

This way you get rid of 99% of the "ninja looting" (since need/greed would be only for non-puggable instances), and you wouldn't have to rely on random chance with the "easy, but frustrating to get gear".

Furthermore, I'd make some changes to the traditional Need/Greed system, and allow group leader to negate a roll by kicking the player from the grp (reinviting him would allow him to roll again). This, to get rid of "accidents"

I don't understand, all drops are instanced to each individual player. Each player gets their "own" loot.

What exactly are you suggesting with a "Need/Greed system"? Would you be kind enough to explain please?

Need/Greed system works in a following way:

Each boss has a big loot table (4-5 drops, which would essentially multiply the chances of something useful to you dropping), which then pop up after he is killed. You are able to roll Need or Greed on the gear after it has dropped, Greed rolls only becoming a factor if no one rolled Need.

What happens next, is that you get a roll from 1-100, just like everyone else who selected "Need". The highest roll gets the loot.

This system works very well in harder content which you run with guilds/people you know, where you dont have some random rolling need on everything. This is why I'm proposing it gets implemented there only.

Usually, these guilds also come up with a point system (DKP or any of the other variants), internally giving points to members according to how active they are. Then, once something drops the one with most points "purchases" the drop, meaning that only he/she is allowed to roll Need by the guild.

Here's some links if you want more in-depth explanations

Need/Greed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loot_system#.22Need_Before_Greed.22

DKP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_kill_points

Gear, itemisation, forthcoming season gear - Are you content with relying on RNG?

Gear, itemisation, forthcoming season gear - Are you content with relying on RNG? 89 votes