Gear, itemisation, forthcoming season gear - Are you content with relying on RNG?

reften

All the gear in the game is comparable to crafted gear.

the 5th set bonus on ANY set in game is not a major game changer (Except for maybe warlock and shadow walker)...the stuff that matters most is resource management and spell/weapon damage (crit and just damage)

Basically, if you just focus on crafting, which is not random at all, you can have gear just as good as someone else...even better in most cases.

So, yes, it's fine...until there are sets that have HUGE advantages over crafting.

DDuke

oren74 wrote: »

All the gear in the game is comparable to crafted gear.

the 5th set bonus on ANY set in game is not a major game changer (Except for maybe warlock and shadow walker)...the stuff that matters most is resource management and spell/weapon damage (crit and just damage)

Basically, if you just focus on crafting, which is not random at all, you can have gear just as good as someone else...even better in most cases.

So, yes, it's fine...until there are sets that have HUGE advantages over crafting.

There are sets that have huge advantages over crafting, just as there should be

Those sets are 10x more difficult to obtain, and thus need to be more rewarding (gear progression - standard MMORPG stuff).
The day they make crafting difficult & require commitment (e.g. require rare materials that only drop from the difficult content, or to top PvPers), that's the day when crafted gear should be equal in power to dropped gear.

As for what strong dropped gear I'm talking about, just take a look at the Vicious Ophidian:



Or any of the Undaunted 2-piece sets

zaria

Natjur wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Tava's tears, please, no Token system!
They basically rip the soul of enjoyment out of any MMO.

So you prefer just random luck with loot instead?

Problem with tokens is that you would have to earn them real slow to not make them OP.

AlexDougherty

zaria wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Tava's tears, please, no Token system!
They basically rip the soul of enjoyment out of any MMO.

So you prefer just random luck with loot instead?

Problem with tokens is that you would have to earn them real slow to not make them OP.

Yeah, did that in SWTOR, drains a lot of the fun out, mind you bad RNG does the same, and lets be frank here this game has terrible RNG for most of us, I still haven't gotten a single tomatoe (or oats), ever.

reften

DDuke wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

All the gear in the game is comparable to crafted gear.

the 5th set bonus on ANY set in game is not a major game changer (Except for maybe warlock and shadow walker)...the stuff that matters most is resource management and spell/weapon damage (crit and just damage)

Basically, if you just focus on crafting, which is not random at all, you can have gear just as good as someone else...even better in most cases.

So, yes, it's fine...until there are sets that have HUGE advantages over crafting.

There are sets that have huge advantages over crafting, just as there should be

Those sets are 10x more difficult to obtain, and thus need to be more rewarding (gear progression - standard MMORPG stuff).
The day they make crafting difficult & require commitment (e.g. require rare materials that only drop from the difficult content, or to top PvPers), that's the day when crafted gear should be equal in power to dropped gear.

As for what strong dropped gear I'm talking about, just take a look at the Vicious Ophidian:



Or any of the Undaunted 2-piece sets

Nope, I wouldn't use that set. Weapon critical is worthless to me. Infused is worthless, increased movement speed is worthless. 8% reduction in stamina is nice.

But i'll take Torug's Pact, with impen. on it any day
2 Items
◾Adds 7 Spell Damage.

3 Items
◾Adds 118 Max Health.

4 Items
◾Adds 14 Weapon Damage

Or seducer with impen

2 Items
◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery

3 Items
◾Adds 78 Max Magicka

4 Items
◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery

5 Items
◾Armor of the Seducer: Reduce the Magicka cost of abilities by 8%...or magnus, or 3 pieces of ashen's.

DDuke

zaria wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Tava's tears, please, no Token system!
They basically rip the soul of enjoyment out of any MMO.

So you prefer just random luck with loot instead?

Problem with tokens is that you would have to earn them real slow to not make them OP.

Tokens for the Undaunted gear would be fine imo (if earned slowly), but I really wouldn't like having them from difficult trial content.

Example: you've killed The Celestial Serpent, he drops an Undaunted Trials Token. You go to Undaunted & they give you Serpent's Magical Dagger.

Why are these people giving me Serpent's Magical Dagger now & where did they get it from? Why didn't they give it to me earlier, since some bad things were going to happen if I didnt kill Serpent?

Simply put: it does not make sense from RP

oren74 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

All the gear in the game is comparable to crafted gear.

the 5th set bonus on ANY set in game is not a major game changer (Except for maybe warlock and shadow walker)...the stuff that matters most is resource management and spell/weapon damage (crit and just damage)

Basically, if you just focus on crafting, which is not random at all, you can have gear just as good as someone else...even better in most cases.

So, yes, it's fine...until there are sets that have HUGE advantages over crafting.

There are sets that have huge advantages over crafting, just as there should be

Those sets are 10x more difficult to obtain, and thus need to be more rewarding (gear progression - standard MMORPG stuff).
The day they make crafting difficult & require commitment (e.g. require rare materials that only drop from the difficult content, or to top PvPers), that's the day when crafted gear should be equal in power to dropped gear.

As for what strong dropped gear I'm talking about, just take a look at the Vicious Ophidian:



Or any of the Undaunted 2-piece sets

Nope, I wouldn't use that set. Weapon critical is worthless to me. Infused is worthless, increased movement speed is worthless. 8% reduction in stamina is nice.

But i'll take Torug's Pact, with impen. on it any day
2 Items
◾Adds 7 Spell Damage.

3 Items
◾Adds 118 Max Health.

4 Items
◾Adds 14 Weapon Damage

Or seducer with impen

2 Items
◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery

3 Items
◾Adds 78 Max Magicka

4 Items
◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery

5 Items
◾Armor of the Seducer: Reduce the Magicka cost of abilities by 8%...or magnus, or 3 pieces of ashen's.

Ah, a magicka user. I do think they should buff the other SO trial sets to be on par with the medium one. Here's the light armour one:

Septimus_Magna

eliisra wrote: »

Take it from someone that's handed in over 120 gold keys and still don't have Engine Guardian shoulders. Or the fact that I completed almost 200 VR dungeons and I still dont have more than 3 pieces of Wormcult.

Or how about when you achieve top 2% on a 30 day PvP campaign and not a single Master's weapon from the reward?

Rng in ESO sucks. Worse loot reward system I have ever encounter. If this is the future, seasonal gear being distributed based on luck, some of us will be stuck in crafted gear for life.

That's also heavily affected because the sets you name are all bind on pickup. Other rare sets like Arch Mage and Hawk Eye are obtainable for everyone if you're willing to pay the high prices. Im not saying that BoP is a bad thing but it definitely makes it a lot harder for unlucky players to obtain these sets. When walking around in Rawl or Grachtwood I see plenty people with undaunted sets so the RNG itself isn't too bad.

Kraven

I don't think a need/greed system is the answer. As it stands everyone gets loot which I enjoy but there does need to be some form of smart loot implemented. I know with the way ESO works it's hard to tell, that DPS running the trial may be primarily a healer but just running DPS because that is what was needed. That tank may just be stepping up to fill a role that's needed. That said if you are rewarded for the role you are playing then it is at least a role you do play.

Infallible Aether or w/e that cloth set is called is absolutely worthless to me. I don't have a single mage character. Smart loot would mean you don't have to increase the drop rate just that when an item does drop it's appropriate to what you would actually use. Or as mentioned elsewhere allow a vendor to trade in such items, trade in the cloth hat for either the heavy or medium which ever you choose.

I am one of the lucky ones. I am only missing 1 helm and 1 shoulder from having every single undaunted set, will never use most of them but hey that's a diff subject. Even being lucky I still really dislike the current system.

Teiji

Kraven wrote: »

Snip

Exactly, instead of developing, coding and creating an entire "smart-loot system" in a game where every class can fulfil every role and use every weapon in the game, this appears to be much less complicated and more rational to have available.

The ability to exchange gear for their relevant counterparts, such as what you said, this could be exchanging Aether hat for Warrior Helmet. So, items which drop from loot table A can be exchanged for other items of loot table A. Making vendors more interactive and more important in character progression as well as customisation.

I know that they've mentioned that obtaining "previous season gear" may[subject to change, naturally] be possible with gold. Which I can see being really convenient, just as long as It's something reasonable say, if I wanted absolutely everything It would cost me a minimum of 100k, "everything" being all previous season gear.

But then we already have "season gear" in the game? Worm Cult, Ebon Armory, Hircine's Saviour, Undaunted sets, AA, Hel Ra, Ophidian trial sets, no?

I expect they already have a general idea and plan in place, the ambiguous wait is uncomfortable none-the-less. They've said many times they read the forums, hopefully they'll chime in if they feel generous enough, even with potential "maybes" and "possibly this", I'd take any bone no matter the Daedroth which provides it.

DDuke

Teiji wrote: »

Kraven wrote: »

Snip

Exactly, instead of developing, coding and creating an entire "smart-loot system" in a game where every class can fulfil every role and use every weapon in the game, this appears to be much less complicated and more rational to have available.

The ability to exchange gear for their relevant counterparts, such as what you said, this could be exchanging Aether hat for Warrior Helmet. So, items which drop from loot table A can be exchanged for other items of loot table A. Making vendors more interactive and more important in character progression as well as customisation.

I know that they've mentioned that obtaining "previous season gear" may[subject to change, naturally] be possible with gold. Which I can see being really convenient, just as long as It's something reasonable say, if I wanted absolutely everything It would cost me a minimum of 100k, "everything" being all previous season gear.

But then we already have "season gear" in the game? Worm Cult, Ebon Armory, Hircine's Saviour, Undaunted sets, AA, Hel Ra, Ophidian trial sets, no?

I expect they already have a general idea and plan in place, the ambiguous wait is uncomfortable none-the-less. They've said many times they read the forums, hopefully they'll chime in if they feel generous enough, even with potential "maybes" and "possibly this", I'd take any bone no matter the Daedroth which provides it.

The problem here is that I believe it'd make getting full gear sets too easy, where as a Need/Greed system still has a small amount of RNG in there (say, a Trial boss drops 3-5 items). It'd still increase your chances of getting that piece you need by 5x, now imagine if everyone got the loot they needed. 12X faster gearing up = end game content becomes irrelevant 12X faster.

There's a good reason why games like WoW still use Need/Greed system in the most difficult content. They've moved to a personal/smart loot system for the easier content though, which was a good thing.

Faulgor

Yes. I'd rather rely on RNG than have a dozen different currencies in the game.
If they can implement tokens without having to add new ones every time new content comes out, it might work. But it usually doesn't end well.

reften

DDuke wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Natjur wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Tava's tears, please, no Token system!
They basically rip the soul of enjoyment out of any MMO.

So you prefer just random luck with loot instead?

Problem with tokens is that you would have to earn them real slow to not make them OP.

Tokens for the Undaunted gear would be fine imo (if earned slowly), but I really wouldn't like having them from difficult trial content.

Example: you've killed The Celestial Serpent, he drops an Undaunted Trials Token. You go to Undaunted & they give you Serpent's Magical Dagger.

Why are these people giving me Serpent's Magical Dagger now & where did they get it from? Why didn't they give it to me earlier, since some bad things were going to happen if I didnt kill Serpent?

Simply put: it does not make sense from RP

oren74 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

All the gear in the game is comparable to crafted gear.

the 5th set bonus on ANY set in game is not a major game changer (Except for maybe warlock and shadow walker)...the stuff that matters most is resource management and spell/weapon damage (crit and just damage)

Basically, if you just focus on crafting, which is not random at all, you can have gear just as good as someone else...even better in most cases.

So, yes, it's fine...until there are sets that have HUGE advantages over crafting.

There are sets that have huge advantages over crafting, just as there should be

Those sets are 10x more difficult to obtain, and thus need to be more rewarding (gear progression - standard MMORPG stuff).
The day they make crafting difficult & require commitment (e.g. require rare materials that only drop from the difficult content, or to top PvPers), that's the day when crafted gear should be equal in power to dropped gear.

As for what strong dropped gear I'm talking about, just take a look at the Vicious Ophidian:



Or any of the Undaunted 2-piece sets

Nope, I wouldn't use that set. Weapon critical is worthless to me. Infused is worthless, increased movement speed is worthless. 8% reduction in stamina is nice.

But i'll take Torug's Pact, with impen. on it any day
2 Items
◾Adds 7 Spell Damage.

3 Items
◾Adds 118 Max Health.

4 Items
◾Adds 14 Weapon Damage

Or seducer with impen

2 Items
◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery

3 Items
◾Adds 78 Max Magicka

4 Items
◾Adds 10 Magicka Recovery

5 Items
◾Armor of the Seducer: Reduce the Magicka cost of abilities by 8%...or magnus, or 3 pieces of ashen's.

Ah, a magicka user. I do think they should buff the other SO trial sets to be on par with the medium one. Here's the light armour one:

I run with

Soft caps on the following with 7 medium armor
Health
Almost magicka
Stamina REGEN (key)
Weapon damage (overcharged when stealthed)
Spell damage (overcharged when stealthed)

I run a bow/snipe bar and a s/b shield charge bar...and rely on sap, impale, dark cloak, and concealed weapon...sometimes for fun camo. hunter.

Weapon and spell crit is worthless to me. The opportunity cost of 80+ magicka,130+ health, 8 spell damage or 14ish weapon damage is too high.

All these dropped sets IMO are not worth it compared to crafted. (two exceptions are warlock and shadow walker...which I do run 5 piece shadow walker)

Septimus_Magna

oren74 wrote: »

All these dropped sets IMO are not worth it compared to crafted. (two exceptions are warlock and shadow walker...which I do run 5 piece shadow walker)

I think you're forgetting the Morag Tong and Hawk Eye set. Some NB's I do trails with do 1600 sustained dps while using these sets.

Teiji

Hello everyone!

How is everyone doing with regards to itemisation?

With no huge changes to new item sets being introduced with new content and so on. Are we content with how Zenimax has seemingly abandoned Undaunted itemisation convenience?

For example, I have an assortment of heavy, medium and light Engine Guardian and Malubeth shoulder-pieces, at least 12 combined. Yet I don't have a single V14 Skoria shoulder piece.

Zenimax should introduce something so we can use excess, "useless" Undaunted shoulder pieces so that we may "exchange" or "something" 10 to 20 "useless" Undaunted shoulder-pieces so that we may have a RNG roll towards a new shoulder piece, Lorkhan forbid they actually allow us to obtain good gear through a non-RNG method or something.

What could Zenimax do to in order to convenience us all, as we deal with the inconvenience of getting duplicate Undaunted shoulder pieces with the only options being:

1. Do I extract this trash Undaunted shoulder piece?
2. Do I put this trash Undaunted shoulder piece on a bank alt?
3. I'll just vendor it and pretend I didn't receive a well-fitted heavy Engine-dude for the forth time.

Why not allow us to interact with the Undaunted quartermaster?
"Oh, hello quartermaster, I've got these 14 Undaunted shoulder pieces, they've not been worn and I have the receipt, I'd like to exchange them for shoulder piece X please, if this is not possible, perhaps you could simple add them to my Undaunted Mastercard bonus points so I can eventually get the Undaunted shoulder I want, please."