Thin out the mob population to open up the world and encourage exploration

xaade · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

adriant1978 wrote: »

They could also do a lot of work to improve quest area clean-up. Nothing kills immersion and a sense of achievement like completing a quest to drive bandits out of a town, only for the town to still be full of hostile bandits. I thought phasing was supposed to ensure this didn't happen.

As for after a phasing occurs.

Phasing like that separates players. So the alternative is no more phasing.

Where it makes sense, they turn the mobs non-hostile. (Cursed animals are now uncursed).

However, I have a different idea.

Instead of phasing players apart from each other, just phase the mobs out.

"But, then you'd have players not see the mobs or be able to engage the mobs, while seeing another player. Do you really want to see bad 'air-guitar' everywhere?"

Um, when a player attacks a mob, have the phased player see the mob too. The now visible mob still won't aggro the phased player. The phased player can now see the other player and interact with him and help him on quests. So everyone wins.

miahq · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

Cody wrote: »

They could at least do what someone else in this thread suggested: Quest-Area clean-up.

Why is bleakrock locked in endless war???

Yeah, didn't they advertise that as one of the great advantages of phasing, that we'd all see the world change a bit because of our actions?

Darlgon · January 2015

I disagree, I have my reasons

Then I will try again, with cliff notes for your logic:

Point One:

spoqster wrote: »

Why not try finding ways of moving away from the constant grinding then?

The game is inadequate because I have to kill mobs to explore, which you call grinding. So, you are asking ESO to change how their game works.

Pont Two:

spoqster wrote: »

I see all other existing games as inadequate, otherwise I would be playing one of them instead.

You dont play inadequate games.

Conclusion:
You need to find another game.

MasterSpatula · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

I tend to agree; I would like to get the balance more on the joy of exploration side of things and less on the side of constant combat.

But if you think that not being able to go two steps without getting into a fight makes it less like earlier Elder Scrolls games, I don't know what Elder Scrolls games you were playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn_h9L4l2Rg

miahq · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

Darlgon wrote: »

Then I will try again, with cliff notes for your logic:

Point One:

spoqster wrote: »

Why not try finding ways of moving away from the constant grinding then?

The game is inadequate because I have to kill mobs to explore, which you call grinding. So, you are asking ESO to change how their game works.

Pont Two:

spoqster wrote: »

I see all other existing games as inadequate, otherwise I would be playing one of them instead.

You dont play inadequate games.

Conclusion:
You need to find another game.

Actually that was me, not him you should be addressing that towards. And as to your rather clever retort, 1) saying maybe we should start thinking of ways to move away from building a game around constant grinding is meant as a philosophical question about the direction of RPGs and MMOs in general. ESO is built around that for absolutely no other reason than that's what WoW and other early games did, and everyone has simply copied since. Is that asking Zos to change how their games work? I think it's asking game makers in general to think about how we innovate new models so not everything is just a cookie cutter WoW clone.

2) saying a game could be better, saying a good game could be a great game, is not synonymous with saying it's inadequate. It's simply saying it's good, but there are ways to make games better. Or to put that in more simple terms for you:

1) Inadequate = will not play
2) Could be better ≠ inadequate
3) Could be better ≠ will not play

Darlgon · January 2015

I disagree, I have my reasons

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I tend to agree, I would like to get the balance more on the joy of exploration side of things and less on the constant combat side.

But if you think that not being able to go two steps without getting into a fight makes it less like earlier Elder Scrolls games, I don't know what Elder Scrolls games you were playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn_h9L4l2Rg

This one had a stache of goodies on a ledge outside Solitude front gate, to refine and level up skills, until he finally could get a house in town. Every time he went to it, a dragon would appear trying to kill him. Maybe the mobs were not as dense, but they sure were deadly. Got more exciting when a dragon AND vampire assassins showed up and started killing guards and villagers.

miahq · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

Darlgon wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I tend to agree, I would like to get the balance more on the joy of exploration side of things and less on the constant combat side.

But if you think that not being able to go two steps without getting into a fight makes it less like earlier Elder Scrolls games, I don't know what Elder Scrolls games you were playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn_h9L4l2Rg

This one had a stache of goodies on a ledge outside Solitude front gate, to refine and level up skills, until he finally could get a house in town. Every time he went to it, a dragon would appear trying to kill him. Maybe the mobs were not as dense, but they sure were deadly. Got more exciting when a dragon AND vampire assassins showed up and started killing guards and villagers.

More deadly enemies would be better to me than simply more of them. And by that I don't just mean making them immune to everything and giving them a ton of health. That to me just comes across as a bit lazy. Or I mean, at least give me a reason they're immune to certain abilities other than, thousand is a boss.

NordJitsu · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

This is a great idea and would absolutely make it feel more like an Elder Scrolls game.

Thin out the mobs. Make each mob tougher and worth more xp. Win.

Edit: for this to work though they'd also have to increase the leash distance so that mobs could follow you further once spotted.

spoqster · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

miahq wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Then I will try again, with cliff notes for your logic:

Point One:

spoqster wrote: »

Why not try finding ways of moving away from the constant grinding then?

The game is inadequate because I have to kill mobs to explore, which you call grinding. So, you are asking ESO to change how their game works.

Pont Two:

spoqster wrote: »

I see all other existing games as inadequate, otherwise I would be playing one of them instead.

You dont play inadequate games.

Conclusion:
You need to find another game.

Actually that was me, not him you should be addressing that towards. And as to your rather clever retort, 1) saying maybe we should start thinking of ways to move away from building a game around constant grinding is meant as a philosophical question about the direction of RPGs and MMOs in general. ESO is built around that for absolutely no other reason than that's what WoW and other early games did, and everyone has simply copied since. Is that asking Zos to change how their games work? I think it's asking game makers in general to think about how we innovate new models so not everything is just a cookie cutter WoW clone.

2) saying a game could be better, saying a good game could be a great game, is not synonymous with saying it's inadequate. It's simply saying it's good, but there are ways to make games better. Or to put that in more simple terms for you:

1) Inadequate = will not play
2) Could be better ≠ inadequate
3) Could be better ≠ will not play

Thanks, mate. His comment gave me a headache.

HeX7 · January 2015

I disagree, I have my reasons

Compared to other games I've played I actually feel that the mobs in this game are pretty sparse. Sometimes you can wander through the woods gathering materials for a long time without even seeing an enemy.

spoqster · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

I think they have done it way better in Craglorn than in other zones. There are very little mob roadblocks, so you can travel through most of the zone without having to fight. Then when you do pull a group it's a tough fight if you are alone.

jpp · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

I agree, and make mobs moving more random paths. Include bosses to be more sneaky, ambushing unpredictable. Allow leveled mobs to kill deers in random ways.

Merlin13KAGL · January 2015

I'm opting for none of the above.

Give the mobs a roaming factor. The tethering and unchanging aspect about it are what make it bothersome.

Sometimes camps are camps, but if certain things were more dynamic, it would make the world more believable.

The quantity of bad guys does not seem unbelievable given the wartime/harsh scenario.

Having said bad guys respawn from thin air right in front of you, though...

Soulshine · January 2015

I disagree, I have my reasons

I find the placement/amount of mobs in the world to be just fine atm, and do not agree it needs changing. In fact, as some have already mentioned, in dungeons especially they seem too sparse.

Someone also mentioned the original Moria in LotrO for comparison - could not disagree more. Moria in its original state was exactly how it should have been. What is left there now is a ghost town of a zone, leaving you so much room you can literally traverse from Durin's Threshold to 1st Hall without so much as a scratch if you are so inclined - it's even been done on a chicken.

I would not want to see that happen here.

miahq · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I'm opting for none of the above.

Give the mobs a roaming factor. The tethering and unchanging aspect about it are what make it bothersome.

Sometimes camps are camps, but if certain things were more dynamic, it would make the world more believable.

The quantity of bad guys does not seem unbelievable given the wartime/harsh scenario.

Having said bad guys respawn from thin air right in front of you, though...

This is more my biggest criticism, static spawn points and mobs just sitting there doing nothing but waiting for you are terrible and need to just be done away with in games. It's not that hard to get them to roam around a bit, and if you're afraid people are tsil just going to camp the spawn points, then make the spawn points random across an area.

I'd rather say that, "there are some high level mobs in this forest," rather than being able to pinpoint exactly where they'll be on a map.

Divinius · January 2015

I just wish that mobs would stop aggroing when they become so far below your level that you won't get any xp for killing them. You know, like every other MMO in the world.

MissBizz · January 2015

adriant1978 wrote: »

They could also do a lot of work to improve quest area clean-up. Nothing kills immersion and a sense of achievement like completing a quest to drive bandits out of a town, only for the town to still be full of hostile bandits. I thought phasing was supposed to ensure this didn't happen.

It was this way, but it also made it so players at different stages could not group. I remember my first time to cold Harbour and you couldn't use to bank and other things until you saved the town.

Grileenor · January 2015

I disagree, I have my reasons

NordJitsu wrote: »

This is a great idea and would absolutely make it feel more like an Elder Scrolls game.

Thin out the mobs. Make each mob tougher and worth more xp. Win.

No, I disagree. Currently I can walk exploring, bashing away everything that pops up. Some crocodile might annoy me at times but overall for a MMO the mob density and respawn time is great.

And: I don't care the tinyest bit für "more like an Elder Scroll game". This is ESO, I love it the way it is. And yes I do explore on and on, even with twinks again. This is one point what makes this game cool for me, the joy I find in exploring Tamriel in ESO.

a.grespinrb19_ESO · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

Yeah i was thinking about this, now lets be realistic the map in TES V feels like probably at least 3 times Glenumbra in size I'm not saying that new place should be put into the game.

But I think as the forum person said, stuff feels to close to each other and "cities" (except Wayrest, possibly) feel a bit small more like towns or even villages. Also the time taken to travel from city to city kind of feels small. Remember Tamriel is a continent after all.

regions also have to be connected so lets say you are walking down the path from Stormhaven into Bangkorai on that really long bridge, why can't the map just carry on instead of giving me a loading screen "we're all about the immersion" and you can't walk into another region, come on. <for Cyrodiil I understand with the region loading.

Cyrodiil itself feels fine but except for when you see hordes of AD zergs you never actually see any enemy alliance AI, and if you do it is just a merchant not like a platoon. I think this could be implemented to make Cyrodiil to feel like an actual war zone. The time taken to travel between keeps is fine I have no complaint about that, but still the region could be bigger.

miahq · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

Grileenor wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

This is a great idea and would absolutely make it feel more like an Elder Scrolls game.

Thin out the mobs. Make each mob tougher and worth more xp. Win.

No, I disagree. Currently I can walk exploring, bashing away everything that pops up. Some crocodile might annoy me at times but overall for a MMO the mob density and respawn time is great.

And: I don't care the tinyest bit für "more like an Elder Scroll game". This is ESO, I love it the way it is. And yes I do explore on and on, even with twinks again. This is one point what makes this game cool for me, the joy I find in exploring Tamriel in ESO.

I don't understand the disdain for someone saying they wished it felt more like an elder scrolls game. As you pointed out yourself, this is ESO. But the ES in that title is supposed to stand for elder scrolls, so shouldn't it have a good elder scrolls feel?

The entire essence of the franchise is based on open world exploration, as I un-linear a story and progression as you can get, and pure sandbox. The map might be fine as far as mob density, but it would still be nice if there were fewer static spawns. And if the story/progression wasn't so completely theme park. That's not just true of elder scrolls, I'd say the same thing if they made a theme park MMO for GTA or fallout... hell I don't even remember the actual plot for the first fallout game. Who cared? I still played the hell out of it.

But with many games there are certain tropes you always expect from the franchise, and with elder scrolls it's definitely more sandbox, less theme park. Frankly it has me a bit scared for any fallout MMO. If it was anything less than a hellish landscape where dying meant something and I could just do whatever the hell I wanted, I'd probably hop on a plane just so I could give the people who made it the finger in person.

Melian · January 2015

I disagree, I have my reasons

I agree with the principle but I actually find the mob population is quite thin already, compared to other MMOs. Usually the mobs are only closely packed at quest hubs.

Wineburg_Graves · January 2015

Wasn't there a post from one of the devs, at launch, I think, saying they planned to improve, on the long run, mob behavior and AI, make them more active and to make the world feel more alive? I remember having read that somewhere...

spoqster · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

adamastorx wrote: »

Wasn't there a post from one of the devs, at launch, I think, saying they planned to improve, on the long run, mob behavior and AI, make them more active and to make the world feel more alive? I remember having read that somewhere...

They said they would improve some of the mob AI with the introduction of the Justice System in update 6. But I don't know if this applies only to city npcs or also to over-world enemy mobs.

ThyIronFist · January 2015

I disagree, I have my reasons

What? There is plenty of exploration, what is stopping you from exploring more? Nothing.

ZOS has more important stuff to work on.

Lord_Draevan · January 2015

I agree, open up the world a little

adriant1978 wrote: »

They could also do a lot of work to improve quest area clean-up. Nothing kills immersion and a sense of achievement like completing a quest to drive bandits out of a town, only for the town to still be full of hostile bandits. I thought phasing was supposed to ensure this didn't happen.

And we know it can be done: the first few Ebonheart Pact quests in Davon's Watch has the town overrun with Covenant troops, but when you finish the quest they're removed, the town goes back to normal.

I especially want this for Bleackrock, I like that little town but it's always crawling with Covenant troops.

Knootewoot · January 2015

I disagree, I have my reasons

I could explore the game, even with critters around. Tbh i don't think the game is packed at all, it's good as it is. I do miss the mmo's where you had vast deserts with almost nothing and it felt like a huge world (tatooine swg 15 square miles). But can't be done in TESO now. The zones are to small for that. They tried it with Hoth in SWTOR. But it got pretty boring Hoth. Since there was nothing to really explore. At least in SWG's Tatooine you had the hidden imperial outpost, squill cave, beetle cave, some POI's and hidden secrets.