Thin out the mob population to open up the world and encourage exploration

spoqster

I agree, open up the world a little

They should make the mob population less dense, and make the mob difficulty more varied. There should be more critters you can one shot, and trolls and giants should be unkillable by yourself unless you are in the top 1%.

miahq

I agree, open up the world a little

As an added suggestion they could actually try to make it more like an actual ES game and de-emphasize the zones...

dharbert

I disagree, I have my reasons

The one thing I wish they would do is adjust the AI to where mobs that are far below your level don't even acknowledge you or chase you. There's nothing I hate more than simply trying to get to a place as a VR14 and I have a pack of VR1 mobs chasing me that don't have a chance in hell of even taking .01% of my health.

miahq

I agree, open up the world a little

dharbert wrote: »

The one thing I wish they would do is adjust the AI to where mobs that are far below your level don't even acknowledge you or chase you. There's nothing I hate more than simply trying to get to a place as a VR14 and I have a pack of VR1 mobs chasing me that don't have a chance in hell of even taking .01% of my health.

You could make that a passive I'd imagine, something like fierce presence. Basically a constant fear for lower level mobs you come across.

Darlgon

I disagree, I have my reasons

Know what? In Oblivion and Skyrim, I explored.. EVERYWHERE. And, know what? There were MOBS EVERYWHERE, even random spiders who wandered up and killed off the NPCS at the skooma din where I stopped for directions.

No.. more mobs means more Xp means more gold from selling drops.

I do find it interesting that this is the exact opposite of this thread I saw yesterday.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144171/so-empty

Blud

I disagree, I have my reasons

Because grinding mobs is more fun for me that going through the same exact quests every time I want to level a alt.

miahq

I agree, open up the world a little

Darlgon wrote: »

Know what? In Oblivion and Skyrim, I explored.. EVERYWHERE. And, know what? There were MOBS EVERYWHERE, even random spiders who wandered up and killed off the NPCS at the skooma din where I stopped for directions.

No.. more mobs means more Xp means more gold from selling drops.

I do find it interesting that this is the exact opposite of this thread I saw yesterday.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144171/so-empty

True. My main critique would be that I just want them to do something other than stand there and wait for someone to walk by and attack. I mean I skyrim many giants followed migration patterns-- even if they weren't complex migration patterns. I just want to see more of that.

It's not a matter of numbers to me, as much as it's about immersion. The worst offender of any game I think I've ever seen was fable 3 (god, I hated that game). Walking into one town there was a static spawn point for a mob of mercenaries who would then just basically stand there in the middle of the road, all bunched up... like, in the middle of the freaking town.

Point is, it doesn't take much of a veil to give the illusion of an immersive world, but the fewer static spawn points where mobs just sit there and wait for you, the better. This is just an old game mechanic that needs to be retired.

Morana

I would love to see the mobs thinned out quite a bit more, but the zones are too small to really allow for it and still contain enough content.

WhiskyBob

I disagree, I have my reasons

Reason #1 - it's an MMO and sometimes you have to grind for stuff.

miahq

I agree, open up the world a little

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Reason #1 - it's an MMO and sometimes you have to grind for stuff.

Why not try finding ways of moving away from the constant grinding then? I never understood why just because that's what MMOs turned in to, everyone who makes an MMO thinks that's what the entire thing needs to be centered around. I mean there can't be that many people who find killing the same mob fifty freaking times actually enjoyable. Just to get one rare drop.

adriant1978

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Reason #1 - it's an MMO and sometimes you have to grind for stuff.

I'd prefer more dungeons to grind in.

Leeric

I disagree, I have my reasons

How about I just shouldn't be attacked by mobs that are 20 levels lower than me.....

miahq

I agree, open up the world a little

Leeric wrote: »

How about I just shouldn't be attacked by mobs that are 20 levels lower than me.....

This came up in a different thread. Best solution I think was maybe adding a high level passive like, intimidating presence, that acts as a permanent fear buff on all mobs under a certain level to you.

Moonshadow66

I disagree, I have my reasons

I never had problems to explore the gameworld due to too many mobs.
Well, except for being alone in Craglorn at VR1, back then with my first character..

spoqster

I agree, open up the world a little

miahq wrote: »

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Reason #1 - it's an MMO and sometimes you have to grind for stuff.

Why not try finding ways of moving away from the constant grinding then? I never understood why just because that's what MMOs turned in to, everyone who makes an MMO thinks that's what the entire thing needs to be centered around. I mean there can't be that many people who find killing the same mob fifty freaking times actually enjoyable. Just to get one rare drop.

I am 100% with you. There are so many people on this forum who seem to be completely caught up in notions of what a MMO should or should not be, based on previous experience with MMOs.

I see it completely differently. I see all other existing games as inadequate, otherwise I would be playing one of them instead. In our creative process we can draw inspiration from those games, but we are in no way bound to the solutions or mistakes they offered.

To me, this forum is about helping to create the best possible game, regardless of genre expectations. Innovation demands leaving existing concepts behind.

Being reminded of the existing concepts can be helpful if it helps solve a problem, but is inconsequential and simply distracting if not woven into creative thought process.

Turelus

I agree, open up the world a little

It did kind of always bug me that each zone is basically just clumps of quest based mobs.

I honestly wish they had mixed mobs of different levels across all zones, so we have a reason to go back to other areas.

AlexDougherty

I disagree, I have my reasons

Xabien wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

You can explore quite easily, the mobs just slow you down, they have never stopped me finding things.

Doesn't it feel artificially full though? There shouldn't be this many mobs around. I tend to agree with @Elloa, Cyrodiil is a good example of mob placement. Maybe we could use a few more than that in the open world, but not many.

Yes, and there are a few spots that could do with a bit of thinning out, but on the whole the mob density is fine.

If they thinned it out, then we would start getting people complaining that there are no mobs for them to fight because someone else keeps getting there first. (trust me it just takes a slight change and a few days were everyone is doing the same quests at the same time, which I have seen happen).

The problem is that we think of the problem spots when we vote, and the devs have no idea which areas those are, so they would thin out all the spots, leading to new problems.

kieso

I disagree, I have my reasons

sorry zones are too small for that.

tplink3r1

I agree, open up the world a little

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

You can explore quite easily, the mobs just slow you down, they have never stopped me finding things.

Doesn't it feel artificially full though? There shouldn't be this many mobs around. I tend to agree with @Elloa, Cyrodiil is a good example of mob placement. Maybe we could use a few more than that in the open world, but not many.

If they thinned it out, then we would start getting people complaining that there are no mobs for them to fight because someone else keeps getting there first. (trust me it just takes a slight change and a few days were everyone is doing the same quests at the same time, which I have seen happen).

Maybe they should group up?

AlexDougherty

I disagree, I have my reasons

tplink3r1 wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

You can explore quite easily, the mobs just slow you down, they have never stopped me finding things.

Doesn't it feel artificially full though? There shouldn't be this many mobs around. I tend to agree with @Elloa, Cyrodiil is a good example of mob placement. Maybe we could use a few more than that in the open world, but not many.

If they thinned it out, then we would start getting people complaining that there are no mobs for them to fight because someone else keeps getting there first. (trust me it just takes a slight change and a few days were everyone is doing the same quests at the same time, which I have seen happen).

Maybe they should group up?

Sometimes they do, sometimes nobody will, that's people for you.

ItsGlaive

I agree, open up the world a little

Raygee wrote: »

I never had problems to explore the gameworld due to too many mobs.
Well, except for being alone in Craglorn at VR1, back then with my first character..

It's not about it being a problem, mob density makes the world feel a lot smaller.

Darlgon

I disagree, I have my reasons

spoqster wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Reason #1 - it's an MMO and sometimes you have to grind for stuff.

Why not try finding ways of moving away from the constant grinding then? I never understood why just because that's what MMOs turned in to, everyone who makes an MMO thinks that's what the entire thing needs to be centered around. I mean there can't be that many people who find killing the same mob fifty freaking times actually enjoyable. Just to get one rare drop.

I am 100% with you. There are so many people on this forum who seem to be completely caught up in notions of what a MMO should or should not be, based on previous experience with MMOs.

I see it completely differently. I see all other existing games as inadequate, otherwise I would be playing one of them instead. In our creative process we can draw inspiration from those games, but we are in no way bound to the solutions or mistakes they offered.

To me, this forum is about helping to create the best possible game, regardless of genre expectations. Innovation demands leaving existing concepts behind.

Being reminded of the existing concepts can be helpful if it helps solve a problem, but is inconsequential and simply distracting if not woven into creative thought process.

By your logic process, you should stop playing this game because you think THIS MMO is coded with too much mob density.

Can I haz ur stuffs M8?

Blooddancer

I agree, open up the world a little

I only agree with regards trashy mobs like wasps, beetles and sprig and wolves to an extent. Sometimes it feels like you have to carve a path through half the fauna in the place to get anywhere.

I appreciate the OPs point about surprise, the odd surprise attack is fun, especially when you are focussed on something else.

miahq

I agree, open up the world a little

kieso wrote: »

sorry zones are too small for that.

Darlgon wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

WhiskyBob wrote: »

Reason #1 - it's an MMO and sometimes you have to grind for stuff.

Why not try finding ways of moving away from the constant grinding then? I never understood why just because that's what MMOs turned in to, everyone who makes an MMO thinks that's what the entire thing needs to be centered around. I mean there can't be that many people who find killing the same mob fifty freaking times actually enjoyable. Just to get one rare drop.

I am 100% with you. There are so many people on this forum who seem to be completely caught up in notions of what a MMO should or should not be, based on previous experience with MMOs.

I see it completely differently. I see all other existing games as inadequate, otherwise I would be playing one of them instead. In our creative process we can draw inspiration from those games, but we are in no way bound to the solutions or mistakes they offered.

To me, this forum is about helping to create the best possible game, regardless of genre expectations. Innovation demands leaving existing concepts behind.

Being reminded of the existing concepts can be helpful if it helps solve a problem, but is inconsequential and simply distracting if not woven into creative thought process.

By your logic process, you should stop playing this game because you think THIS MMO is coded with too much mob density.

Can I haz ur stuffs M8?

And by your comment, it doesn't seem you actually understand logic. But that is a pretty cute way of basically telling someone to shut up and quit playing the game if they don't like it... even though it's completely irrelevant to what we were discussing, I suppose it's relevant in a tendential manner, so that's something.

danno8

I disagree, I have my reasons

In Oblivion I always used Martigen Monster Mod, and in Skyrim I used SkyTEST just to have more animals and nature wandering around. Otherwise I could go hours without bumping into anything.

But exploration in those games was waaaaaaay more fun, exciting, dangerous and difficult. Thinning out the mobs in this game would just make even less intense, if you can call it intense at all, which I don't think you can.

danno8

I disagree, I have my reasons

miahq wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Know what? In Oblivion and Skyrim, I explored.. EVERYWHERE. And, know what? There were MOBS EVERYWHERE, even random spiders who wandered up and killed off the NPCS at the skooma din where I stopped for directions.

No.. more mobs means more Xp means more gold from selling drops.

I do find it interesting that this is the exact opposite of this thread I saw yesterday.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144171/so-empty

True. My main critique would be that I just want them to do something other than stand there and wait for someone to walk by and attack. I mean I skyrim many giants followed migration patterns-- even if they weren't complex migration patterns. I just want to see more of that.

It's not a matter of numbers to me, as much as it's about immersion. The worst offender of any game I think I've ever seen was fable 3 (god, I hated that game). Walking into one town there was a static spawn point for a mob of mercenaries who would then just basically stand there in the middle of the road, all bunched up... like, in the middle of the freaking town.

Point is, it doesn't take much of a veil to give the illusion of an immersive world, but the fewer static spawn points where mobs just sit there and wait for you, the better. This is just an old game mechanic that needs to be retired.

Yes, but in single player games you don't have 500,000 other players messing around with mob spawns.

Remember that in Skyrim the respawn time was like 7 in game days, and some delves would never respawn, so your actions made a true difference. They try to mimic this with phasing, but phasing brings in its own set of problems.

In an mmo I'm afraid there are just too many players killing stuff that if you don't have relatively quick, simple spawns, you would just never run across any mobs ever.

edit: Ultima Online tried to have an amazing living breathing world, here is what happened:

"Artificial Life Engine[edit]
Starr Long, the game's associate producer, explained in 1996:

Nearly everything in the world, from grass to goblins, has a purpose, and not just as cannon fodder either. The 'virtual ecology' affects nearly every aspect of the game world, from the very small to the very large. If the rabbit population suddenly drops (because some gung-*** adventurer was trying out his new mace) then wolves may have to find different food sources (e.g., deer). When the deer population drops as a result, the local dragon, unable to find the food he’s accustomed to, may head into a local village and attack. Since all of this happens automatically, it generates numerous adventure possibilities.

However, this feature never made it beyond the game's beta stage. As Richard Garriott explained:

We thought it was fantastic. We'd spent an enormous amount of time and effort on it. But what happened was all the players went in and just killed everything; so fast that the game couldn't spawn them fast enough to make the simulation even begin. And so, this thing that we'd spent all this time on, literally no-one ever noticed – ever – and we eventually just ripped it out of the game, you know, with some sadness.[14]"

Mug

The thinking here is sound, but the game is not designed for it. The future would hold randomly generated worlds that are larger and have less mobs. With the way this game is designed regarding advancement, what you are asking can change alot of smaller things for the worse.

miahq

I agree, open up the world a little

danno816_ESO wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

Know what? In Oblivion and Skyrim, I explored.. EVERYWHERE. And, know what? There were MOBS EVERYWHERE, even random spiders who wandered up and killed off the NPCS at the skooma din where I stopped for directions.

No.. more mobs means more Xp means more gold from selling drops.

I do find it interesting that this is the exact opposite of this thread I saw yesterday.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144171/so-empty

True. My main critique would be that I just want them to do something other than stand there and wait for someone to walk by and attack. I mean I skyrim many giants followed migration patterns-- even if they weren't complex migration patterns. I just want to see more of that.

It's not a matter of numbers to me, as much as it's about immersion. The worst offender of any game I think I've ever seen was fable 3 (god, I hated that game). Walking into one town there was a static spawn point for a mob of mercenaries who would then just basically stand there in the middle of the road, all bunched up... like, in the middle of the freaking town.

Point is, it doesn't take much of a veil to give the illusion of an immersive world, but the fewer static spawn points where mobs just sit there and wait for you, the better. This is just an old game mechanic that needs to be retired.

Yes, but in single player games you don't have 500,000 other players messing around with mob spawns.

Remember that in Skyrim the respawn time was like 7 in game days, and some delves would never respawn, so your actions made a true difference. They try to mimic this with phasing, but phasing brings in its own set of problems.

In an mmo I'm afraid there are just too many players killing stuff that if you don't have relatively quick, simple spawns, you would just never run across any mobs ever.

edit: Ultima Online tried to have an amazing living breathing world, here is what happened:

"Artificial Life Engine[edit]
Starr Long, the game's associate producer, explained in 1996:

Nearly everything in the world, from grass to goblins, has a purpose, and not just as cannon fodder either. The 'virtual ecology' affects nearly every aspect of the game world, from the very small to the very large. If the rabbit population suddenly drops (because some gung-*** adventurer was trying out his new mace) then wolves may have to find different food sources (e.g., deer). When the deer population drops as a result, the local dragon, unable to find the food he’s accustomed to, may head into a local village and attack. Since all of this happens automatically, it generates numerous adventure possibilities.

However, this feature never made it beyond the game's beta stage. As Richard Garriott explained:

We thought it was fantastic. We'd spent an enormous amount of time and effort on it. But what happened was all the players went in and just killed everything; so fast that the game couldn't spawn them fast enough to make the simulation even begin. And so, this thing that we'd spent all this time on, literally no-one ever noticed – ever – and we eventually just ripped it out of the game, you know, with some sadness.[14]"

That entirely comes down to the size of your map though, if the density of players is too great then everything in the area is going to get destroyed fast. Their zones are all a bit small, honestly. Though that's partly the way they're broken up, fewer zones and more open area would've made the world feel bigger. And frankly including more of the continent would've done that as well.

I realize the reason they left most of it out for now was for future expansions, but it doesn't seem like they're going to be actually filling in the map with those expansions to make the map more of a continuous whole. Instead they're just going to use that area to base the expansions in as one off dungeon crawls.

Just like every MMO out there, you can basically just unsub until the next one because what's the point of playing after that? There's no reason to go back to older zones, and even if you did the map is so segregated by level that it would be pointless to go back to the starting levels. So every zone just because a one use item. PvP? If they wanted that to keep people entertained in between expansions they should've made it a little less bland. Right now it feels way too thrown together.

hanilvor

I disagree, I have my reasons

I disagree, in most zones the mobs are pretty spread out already, and in places where there is a high concentration there is usually an associated quest nearby.

Anyways... as soon as they mix Veteran Ranks and Caldwell's Silver and gold the game will open up immensely at lvl 50.

Cody

I agree, open up the world a little

They could at least do what someone else in this thread suggested: Quest-Area clean-up.

Why is bleakrock locked in endless war???