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Spedning more time walking than fighting. Forced to spec all HP?

  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
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    Galalin wrote: »
    badmojo wrote: »
    I guess it's hard for you pros to understand that a new player(to cyrodiil) who dies quickly, is still going to die quickly, even with more health. If you die instantly with 2k health, there's more to your problem than simply the amount of health.

    Or are you guys saying you instantly lose 2k health the second you start fighting? lol

    Yes you instantly can lose easily 2k health upon starting. When i was gank built my highest was 2.6k lethal arrow against moon die who i believe was a WW then and im a DK. NB's are even more deadly with a bow.

    Its usually not the single hit that kills you its the 3 attacks hiting you at thw same time that i can almost guarantee will hit for more than 2k 90% of the time. Added: without blocking

    Added: its not wrong to have less than 3k health... i see it on many great players however most of them are NB gank builds that are pure DPS. So if thats not you it would be wise to make sure you have more than 3k hp with some impen gear.

    Just sayin.

    This ^
  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
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    Also using tripots is a crutch . Please stop using those as well .

    Hell just play naked too . Let's take all the training wheels off .

    I'll continue to be a noob N run everything but will still bow to your awesomeness for not .
  • tunepunk
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    JaJaLuka wrote: »
    -You need at least about 2.5K HP in Cyrodiil after food buffs (that's a bare minimum, most people run more).
    -You should have a few pieces with the impenetrable trait on your armour so you don't get one shotted (a note on this as well is that your critical surge heals won't be all that effective because your critical chance is so low it's almost non-existent, remember most other pvpers will have impenetrable on as well).
    -I don't recommend lowering damage output at all, if you have ever witnessed two tanks going at it with high damage mitigation and low damage output you'll realise just how boring those long fights are. Most of the time they won't be able to kill each other and you end in a stalemate or until someone crashes.

    If you are really bored by the constant running, join a duelling guild and you can have some amazing fun without having to worry about getting smashed by multiple people at once. Better yet would be to support the push for an arena style pvp to be added.

    Respecced a bit and I don't see how you can get that high in HP and I'm at V10. I already spent 40 attribute points in Health. And now I'm up to 1800-ish without food buffs. Rest 18 or so in Magicka. Most my gear have Stamina and Magicka buffs to not fall behind there. Both of them at around 1600-1700ish. (Don't remember exact numbers now) For me it's a mystery how people can have 3K HP and 2K in the other stats? How?? Even Set bonuses and/or mundus stones wouldn't bump me up to those levels...

  • Etaniel
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    tunepunk wrote: »
    Respecced a bit and I don't see how you can get that high in HP and I'm at V10. I already spent 40 attribute points in Health. And now I'm up to 1800-ish without food buffs. Rest 18 or so in Magicka. Most my gear have Stamina and Magicka buffs to not fall behind there. Both of them at around 1600-1700ish. (Don't remember exact numbers now) For me it's a mystery how people can have 3K HP and 2K in the other stats? How?? Even Set bonuses and/or mundus stones wouldn't bump me up to those levels...

    This is going to sound dumdum, but do you use glyphs on your gear?
    Edited by Etaniel on December 30, 2014 10:06AM
    Noricum | Kitesquad

    Youtube

    AR 41 DC DK

  • tunepunk
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    Etaniel wrote: »
    This is going to sound dumdum, but do you use glyphs on your gear?

    Yes of course! Like i said. Most of them Magicka or Stamina to not fall behind too much there with 40 attribute points in Health..
  • Etaniel
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    I have no idea then. In Cyro i have 3k+ hp, 2.4k + magicka and 1.8k+ stam, that's with purple food buff on. It's a combination of set bonus, glyphs and attributes, racial passives, undaunted passives, and also the fact that my gear is purple/yellow and so are the glyphs, squeezing out every point i can.
    Noricum | Kitesquad

    Youtube

    AR 41 DC DK

  • eliisra
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    tunepunk wrote: »
    Respecced a bit and I don't see how you can get that high in HP and I'm at V10. I already spent 40 attribute points in Health. And now I'm up to 1800-ish without food buffs. Rest 18 or so in Magicka. Most my gear have Stamina and Magicka buffs to not fall behind there. Both of them at around 1600-1700ish. (Don't remember exact numbers now) For me it's a mystery how people can have 3K HP and 2K in the other stats? How?? Even Set bonuses and/or mundus stones wouldn't bump me up to those levels...

    Hmm, have you ticked or accidentally turned-off the "battle level" option? Because with a base of 1800 hp, food buff and battle scaling, you should already be over 2.5k hp in Cyrodiil. Don't look at your stats while chilling at some banker in Tamriel, travel to a campaign.

    Also, when people tell their stats, it's with VR5+ blue or purple food buffs included. You seem to not have food added on top of those stats, missing the most powerful character buff in the game.

    There's also passives from skills and skill lines that passively boosts all kind of stats. Quality of enchants and refine on gear, also makes a difference. With legendary enchants on legendary infused head, legs and chest, you get a big chunk of stats.
  • GorraShatan
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    A few small things:

    - the impenetrable trait helps a lot (this will matter less after 1.6)

    - try to join a group, ideally one with TS. Decent groups are good at resurrecting each other.
    You're a Sorc, solo derping is more fun. You will never learn to play your class to its limits if you only ever run in a group. Remember to bunny hop a lot.

    - don't charge in too far ahead. People can't resurrect you if they can't get to you.
    You're a Sorc blinky blink all the way, if you need rezes you're doing it wrong. Remember, you are as a god among men and all the world is a blur.

    - food is your friend. Blue food for either HP/stam or HP/magicka appropriate to your level is a must. HP/stam is preferable.
    You're a Sorc, if you aren't using tri stat food, you're doing it wrong.

    - when in doubt, hold down block.
    You're a Sorc, when in doubt, blinky blink. Also blinky blink when not in doubt. Just, never stop blinky blinking.

    - "bash" your way out of stuns
    You're a Sorc, blinky blink out of stuns.

    - get a horse and feed it an apple every day. If ZOS was smart they'd let you buy a horse with AP, but yeah...
    You're a Sorc, you have blinky blink. What's a horse again?

    -make sure you have some skills on your bars for survivability. Damage shields, self heals, and skills to help you escape. Sometimes you don't need to win a fight, just survive long enough for your friends to show up, or at least get your body into a spot where they can res it.
    You're a Sorc, you never need to win a fight. Your mission in life is to blinky blink through the fields and lead enemy raids back over your friends to get them (your friends) killed.

    Hope that helps.
    Here, since OP is a Sorc, I added some minor corrections to your advice.

    Did someone pee in your coffee? Lol.
  • Subtomik
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    Did someone pee in your coffee? Lol.

    I would listen to teargrants, he makes me debate switching from invasion to toppling charge everytime I see him and knows what hes talking about.

    Hes like ezareth except not a D
  • badmojo
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    Putting more health into your build while learning is like learning to drive a race car with traction control, anti-lock breaks, anti-skid & all those other driver aids. You will have a hard time identifying where you are going wrong because the computer saves you all the time. It's the same with getting more health, you aren't going to know when you are doing the wrong things.

    Do you really want that 1k health to be a crutch, or a benefit? You need to learn to walk, before you learn to run.

    That's all I'm going to say.
    [DC/NA]
  • Subtomik
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    badmojo wrote: »
    Putting more health into your build while learning is like learning to drive a race car with traction control, anti-lock breaks, anti-skid & all those other driver aids. You will have a hard time identifying where you are going wrong because the computer saves you all the time. It's the same with getting more health, you aren't going to know when you are doing the wrong things.

    Do you really want that 1k health to be a crutch, or a benefit? You need to learn to walk, before you learn to run.

    That's all I'm going to say.

    I'm guessing you have never driven a fast car lol.
  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
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    Subtomik wrote: »
    badmojo wrote: »
    Putting more health into your build while learning is like learning to drive a race car with traction control, anti-lock breaks, anti-skid & all those other driver aids. You will have a hard time identifying where you are going wrong because the computer saves you all the time. It's the same with getting more health, you aren't going to know when you are doing the wrong things.

    Do you really want that 1k health to be a crutch, or a benefit? You need to learn to walk, before you learn to run.

    That's all I'm going to say.

    I'm guessing you have never driven a fast car lol.

    This ^
  • badmojo
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    I challenge you two to play for a few days with less than 2k health, you might learn a thing or two. Of course you'll just try to go 1 on 1 with a tank or something, then come back and tell me how stupid I am. But, if you actually embraced the challenge and adapted your game to it, I bet you'd be a better player when you got the health back.
    [DC/NA]
  • Subtomik
    Subtomik
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    badmojo wrote: »
    I challenge you two to play for a few days with less than 2k health, you might learn a thing or two. Of course you'll just try to go 1 on 1 with a tank or something, then come back and tell me how stupid I am. But, if you actually embraced the challenge and adapted your game to it, I bet you'd be a better player when you got the health back.

    I'm not sure what to do first, teach you to drive or play eso.
  • Teargrants
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    Subtomik wrote: »
    Did someone pee in your coffee? Lol.

    I would listen to teargrants, he makes me debate switching from invasion to toppling charge everytime I see him and knows what hes talking about.

    Hes like ezareth except not a D
    Wrong on both counts, you need to switch to crit rush, and pray to Dee Tick for guidance. Do not follow AoeBBQ in his heathen ways.

    Also, Ezareth was better, I still haven't mastered his bunny hop technique which was the secret of his power.
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    DC ※ Kirsi ※
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    ┬┴┬┴┤(・_├┬┴┬┴
  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
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    Subtomik wrote: »
    badmojo wrote: »
    I challenge you two to play for a few days with less than 2k health, you might learn a thing or two. Of course you'll just try to go 1 on 1 with a tank or something, then come back and tell me how stupid I am. But, if you actually embraced the challenge and adapted your game to it, I bet you'd be a better player when you got the health back.

    I'm not sure what to do first, teach you to drive or play eso.

    Lmao !!!
  • RinaldoGandolphi
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    I don't think you can go wrong with HP. The more you have the better your survivability. No fight is hopeless until your dead, as long as your still alive there a chance to win.

    Having 3200 hp instead of 2900 may be the difference between LOS and sipping a potion then coming out and killing the perso
    badmojo wrote: »
    Putting more health into your build while learning is like learning to drive a race car with traction control, anti-lock breaks, anti-skid & all those other driver aids. You will have a hard time identifying where you are going wrong because the computer saves you all the time. It's the same with getting more health, you aren't going to know when you are doing the wrong things.

    Do you really want that 1k health to be a crutch, or a benefit? You need to learn to walk, before you learn to run.

    That's all I'm going to say.

    What? What? What?

    More health is always a good thing there is no downside to it, I wouldn't even consider going to cyrodiil with less then all attributes in health, since sift capping stamina/magic with enchants, gear, and food is so trival.

    Having low health just makes you easier to kill period. Survivability should be first and foremost, the less you die the better.

    Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
    Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
    Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
    Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
    RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
    Officer Fire and Ice
    Co-GM - MVP



    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • Subtomik
    Subtomik
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    Teargrants wrote: »
    Wrong on both counts, you need to switch to crit rush, and pray to Dee Tick for guidance. Do not follow AoeBBQ in his heathen ways.

    Also, Ezareth was better, I still haven't mastered his bunny hop technique which was the secret of his power.


    couple points.


    1. Ezareth was not good. like. at all.
    2. dont do 2H, so being breton master race I can spam temp charge forever, the problem right now is its internal cooldown.
  • badmojo
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    I should have figured you guys would be too chicken*** to accept the challenge. You probably play all your games on the easiest difficulty too, and feel all good about winning.

    Keep telling me I can't drive and play ESO, I love the ignorance.
    [DC/NA]
  • Roechacca
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    I do run less then 2k health on one of my toons . That toon is a stealth opportunist so the health isn't the most essential stat . I've mixed a bar full of usefull get away abilities . I drop low health players all day . You won't see this toon in the fray of any battle .

    As stated earlier by several good players , it's only wise to run low health on certain classes . If you always have a friend bot healing you , you maybe disillusioned by exactly how well your setup is . All setups should be prepared for individual survivability times . That way your not taxing your group healers Mana till they wanna rip their hair out helping you .

    Also , please leave the traction control on in your fast car . Even La Mans driver know a computer is faster then human reflexes .
  • Subtomik
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    badmojo wrote: »
    I should have figured you guys would be too chicken*** to accept the challenge. You probably play all your games on the easiest difficulty too, and feel all good about winning.

    Keep telling me I can't drive and play ESO, I love the ignorance.

    I play all the time on my v1 temp that has 1900 health. It doesn't make me a better player, it unnecessarily gimps me an it sucks. I can play naked if I want as well, but aside from the jollies why would I?

    Much like you driving your integra that doesn't have traction control doesn't make you Mario andretti, you playing with 1900 health doesn't make you a better player.
    Edited by Subtomik on December 31, 2014 2:01AM
  • Galalin
    Galalin
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    badmojo wrote: »
    I challenge you two to play for a few days with less than 2k health, you might learn a thing or two. Of course you'll just try to go 1 on 1 with a tank or something, then come back and tell me how stupid I am. But, if you actually embraced the challenge and adapted your game to it, I bet you'd be a better player when you got the health back.

    Those who know me here would know i usually end my posts with something along the lines of "DK scrub out"

    Im afraid that if i took your advice and got better i would no longer be entitled to use such a phrase.

    Therefore i must respectfully decline the challenge and keep my 3.5 hp pool to cover my scrub ass so i can continue to make mistakes and still have a chance to kill the leet PvE'ers that insist on poking me with sticks and magic bullets

    DK Scrub out
    Edited by Galalin on December 31, 2014 2:09AM
  • badmojo
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    woodsro wrote: »
    What? What? What?

    More health is always a good thing there is no downside to it, I wouldn't even consider going to cyrodiil with less then all attributes in health, since sift capping stamina/magic with enchants, gear, and food is so trival.

    Having low health just makes you easier to kill period. Survivability should be first and foremost, the less you die the better.

    Okay, and who would be better at survival?

    A. A player who doesn't enter Cyrodiil with anything less than all attributes into health.

    B. A player who learned to survive without going all into health, then respec'ed to get the extra health.

    At the end of the day, both players have the same amount of health. The only difference in the end will be the skills they learned along the way.
    Edited by badmojo on December 31, 2014 2:02AM
    [DC/NA]
  • Galalin
    Galalin
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    badmojo wrote: »
    woodsro wrote: »
    What? What? What?

    More health is always a good thing there is no downside to it, I wouldn't even consider going to cyrodiil with less then all attributes in health, since sift capping stamina/magic with enchants, gear, and food is so trival.

    Having low health just makes you easier to kill period. Survivability should be first and foremost, the less you die the better.

    Okay, and who would be better at survival?

    A. A player who doesn't enter Cyrodiil with anything less than all attributes into health.

    B. A player who learned to survive without going all into health, then respec'ed to get the extra health.

    At the end of the day, both players have the same amount of health. The only difference in the end will be the skills they learned along the way.

    Have to disagree....

    They player with the same constant build would have a better idea of his/her limitations.

    And that is of utmost importance to survival in PvP

    I understand your logic here but i would still have to disagree with the effectiveness of it

    DK Scrub out
  • Subtomik
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    I would love to hear all he learned from a 3 second death recap...


    "Hmmm next time maybe if he doesn't ever attack me..."
  • Roechacca
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    Please just tell me this challenge is just a troll to get poor new guys to run into Cyrodiil spamming the abilities bar but dropping in 2 or 3 hits before their stam N mana are even halfway depleted . If so , well played Sir . A couple people took a bite lol
  • RinaldoGandolphi
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    I don't see where having less health helps with learning not to die. I only have so much health so if I get stealth attacked I don't die quickly.

    Learning not to die comes from experience and getting a feel for the game more then anything else.

    Take 1vs1, I avoid those at all costs.why? Odds, only 1 of 3 things can happen and two of them are bad which us:

    1. I win
    2. I lose
    3. His buddies come along to gang up on me while I'm alone.

    Nah, those aren't favorable odds, a smart man places bets on favorable odds. Sure ill risk every now and then, but i don't make it a regular thing.

    There are plenty of kills and dticks to be had for those who are patient, death don't help my alliance the less I die the less points the enemy gets. Everyone has their own style, I have mine, but a lack of health didn't teach me this style.
    Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
    Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
    Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
    Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
    RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
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    Co-GM - MVP



    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • Pancake-Tragedy
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    badmojo wrote: »
    woodsro wrote: »
    What? What? What?

    More health is always a good thing there is no downside to it, I wouldn't even consider going to cyrodiil with less then all attributes in health, since sift capping stamina/magic with enchants, gear, and food is so trival.

    Having low health just makes you easier to kill period. Survivability should be first and foremost, the less you die the better.

    Okay, and who would be better at survival?

    A. A player who doesn't enter Cyrodiil with anything less than all attributes into health.

    B. A player who learned to survive without going all into health, then respec'ed to get the extra health.

    At the end of the day, both players have the same amount of health. The only difference in the end will be the skills they learned along the way.

    Part of the skill involved in playing this game involves adapting your build to be successful versus your competition. If I know that a certain skill/spec can burst a certain amount of health away in seconds, I am going to make sure I meet the threshold required to stay alive to counter that skill/spec. In this current meta-game, the way to do that is with HP, Impenetrable, and enough stamina to sustain a healthy block time.

    Or you can try to burst them before they burst you and hope that they run out of stamina to block/cc break/roll dodge/don't know what button their block button is key bound to.

    If you think that you are somehow a "skillful player" by putting yourself at a disadvantage then go for it. But hey, don't let me talk you out of whatever you are trying to do, I love free AP.
    Edited by Pancake-Tragedy on December 31, 2014 2:52AM
    Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer
  • Columba
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    badmojo wrote: »
    I should have figured you guys would be too chicken*** to accept the challenge. You probably play all your games on the easiest difficulty too, and feel all good about winning.

    Keep telling me I can't drive and play ESO, I love the ignorance.

    "Fat Drunk and Stupid is No Way to Go Through Life, Son" - Dean Wermer to Flounder, Animal House, 1978.
    Edited by Columba on December 31, 2014 3:48AM
  • Kraven
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    Hey I love going against those that spec all into health and stack impen traits, it's like getting hit by a spit ball while I'm holding a .44. Getting enough health is easy but feel free to load all into health and run all that heavy armor. Yum!

    Part of why there is no 1v1 in this game so many run tankish it takes 3-4 to kill one decent player and even then they don't walk away without losing 1-2 because they all hit softer than a fly lands.
    V14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
    V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
    V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
    V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS

    to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"
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