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ZoS incompetence rears its head again (re: initial champion points nerf)
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Unlikely_Ghostbuster✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »olemanwinter wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »yes evry time a game releases an exspansion pack .
And expansion packs suddenly and retroactively rebalance the players? I think not.
Usually, you have to actually PLAY the new expansion to either catch up/get ahead for new gear and stats.
It's not as if the very day the expansion is released, before any content has been played, you are suddenly made a stronger or weaker character!
read the following take from my original reply to you (including all of my misspellings and typos)
an example from WoW that applies , during vanilla WoW they had a system where you had to level your weapons to imrpove you hit chance and reduce your glancing blows . I had a warrior who had every available weapon skill maxxed when they removed that system , I recieved nothing for having achieved that . They put everybody on the same level as far as weapons skill benefits when they did that since they gave everyone the benefits of having maxxed weapon skills when they removed that system . This made my level capped warrior equal to every other level capped warrior before gear is considered . I have been through a situation where I spent the time to obtain a benefit for my character(he could use all allowed weapons without penalty , opposed to warriors who had not maxxed their weapon skills) only to lose it with the removal of the weapon skills system. I still played the game for several years after that happened.
you said there was no precedent for such a reset and i provide you one that did that to a limited extent
With regards to this and some of your past post.
Using the past to predict the future is an invalid argument perpetuated by our society. It amounts to saying that because the something happened before it would happen again.
Saying that something is acceptable because it was acceptable in the past is also invalid.
Just because something happened in the past does not mean it will happen in the future.
If the sun rises tomorrow it does not do so because it did the previous day. To really explain this would require much more time and science.
Not science, just philosophy. What you're talking about is called the Problem of Inductive Reasoning, proved by David Hume, which shows all inductive justification employs circular reasoning. Not only are you correct, you're in the company of geniuses.4 -
xtago✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »So far, 0 people defending ZoS have actually addressed the point in the OP.
It's a HORRIBLE DECISION to give "one VR1" accounts and "8 VR14s" accounts exactly and precisely 30 CPs. The VR1 didnt earn it, and the 8 VR14s was lied to and isn't getting what they earned.
I proposed 3 alternate ideas in the OP which I made up on the spot with 0 thought which are MASSIVELY SUPERIOR to what ZoS is proposing to do. And no one who is defending ZoS even remotely acknowledged that.
You understand that this is on the pts server, so people can test stuff out.
Not the official game servers0 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »So far, 0 people defending ZoS have actually addressed the point in the OP.
It's a HORRIBLE DECISION to give "one VR1" accounts and "8 VR14s" accounts exactly and precisely 30 CPs. The VR1 didnt earn it, and the 8 VR14s was lied to and isn't getting what they earned.
I proposed 3 alternate ideas in the OP which I made up on the spot with 0 thought which are MASSIVELY SUPERIOR to what ZoS is proposing to do. And no one who is defending ZoS even remotely acknowledged that.
You understand that this is on the pts server, so people can test stuff out.
Not the official game servers
You understand that this will be on the liveserver? This is what zos wanna do and what they have stated. The 30 points going to be on the PTS and when its live later also on the Live Servers.
Even when they delete our progress after VR1 by erasing the veteran system we wont even get any compensation for it by then. Also said by an official ZoS employee.
Dude, you need to research before posting
no offence Edited by xMovingTarget on December 27, 2014 2:49AM3 -
xtago✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »
are you new to online gaming , since in the past 25 years of my online gaming grinding has always been inclusive of doing quests since the object of grinding was to gain XP as fast as possible .onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Grinding includes doing quests.
False. Please don't post incorrect things.
It does include doing quests when you are killing mobs along the way that you might not otherwise do. It's all part of the results of the xp tracking.
Again, 100% false. Grinding is absolutely, completely, mutually exclusive to questing. Please stop posting false information.
It is not false, just subjective. Someone who hates questing, but does quest after quest after quest for hours on end anyway just because it is the fastest way to level and he wants to hit the max asap - this person would subjectively consider his activity to be a grind.
Again, 100% false and not up to interpretation.
Grinding is a term. A defined term. You can't just make up your own definition for it.
Grinding is killing mobs over and over and over in 1 spot or area.. That is all grinding is. If you ride off to a quest giver and then get another quest and then ride to a new location to complete a quest, that's not grinding.
Period.
Its not up for debate.
you grind quests , mobs , dungeons , or skill lines .
every thing in the game is a grind , that does not mean that every thing in the game is unpleasant .
you grind quests by grabbing every quest in a quest hub doing them then turning them in before moving to the next hub.
you grind dungeons by forming a group and running dungeons back to back .
you grind mobs by finding a location with a high respawn rate of mobs that give a decent amount of XP based on being solo or in a group .
you grind skill lines by using them or focusing on the actions that progress them .
Yes someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.
People only grind mobs, mainly because you can level faster that way and you only do quests as needed to get into the next area or it offers a big xp return.
Skill lines are only grinded in this game because it up's damage etc.
When game was in open beta tests people were getting to level 50, and people were very rank 10 within 12 hoursEdited by xtago on December 27, 2014 2:54AM2 -
all people want is reward for the effort they put into the game, especially that others have not. I don't think most players are asking for a mathematical compensation that meets all demands, but they could easily take the heat off of this subject by rewarding players a few character points per veteran rank achieved.
we were given the go ahead to continue playing without fear of lost oppurtunities and ZOS needs to compensate VR 14s for their advanced progression into the game. 30 flat points per vr character with the release of 1.6 is understandable considering v14s will still be more advanced that v1s. but when everyone is rolled back to 50, vr14s are clearly being penalized for advanced play unless they are rewarded with some amount of character points per vet rank.
I also do not want to hear about new forms of advancement or new content. we are not looking for new ways to advance, we did that already and those who haven't advanced will have every possible avenue of advancement we do PLUS cadwells silver and gold. i will also not be told i have to do the same content AGAIN to get the same reward as someone who hasnt done it yet. rolling VR14s back to 50 with everyone else and 30 points for all is completely unacceptable. im not a rage quitter, and im a very reasonable adult who defends ZOS at almost every turn, but this would be a slap in the face, a bold faced lie and a lot of level headed players will not take this kind of abuse from game developers. I would imagine ZOS will lose a lot of its subs in the process. don't penalize the players who play your game the most LOL. not a good business move.
I understand there isn't always an easy answer, but there is an answer even if its not perfect. VR14s when rolled back have to be rewarded with some compensation for their advanced progression, even if its only a few character points per level. I think most mature players are willing to look over the majority of the earned xp accumulated since the announcement as long as we are rewarded to some extent. 5 or 10 Character Points per vet rank earned is not a game breaker and those who have done Cadwells gold or progressed thru other avenues CLEARLY deserve compensation when rolled back to 50.
rolling everyone from vr1 to vr14 back to 50 and giving us all 30 points is completely unacceptable7 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've read through this entire thread and find it quite amusing the logic that some people have.
Let me sum up two prevalent arguments that I think are ubsurd.
@Sharee Because there will be more content later, more cps to earn, and cadwells is just a drop in the ocean as far as xp goes, There is no problem here.
@DanielMaxwell Because players burned through content and company decisions are subject to change the players have no one to blame but themselves.
Ok so let me do an anology.
Let's say I work for a company. I've worked for this company for almost a year busting my butt but having fun (questing) because I enjoy what I do. Within that year, I've learned everything I can and been promoted to as high as I can go (vr 14). By December, management comes to me and says, continue working hard! We are tracking your progress, and by Jan 1st, at your annual evaluation, we will give you a significant raise!
However, by December, management decides to hire new employees. Even though they have only been on the job for one month they too will be evaluated come Jan 1st.
January 1st rolls around and management decides the following:
1. Thank you for all your hard work. We are demoting you to be at the same pay as the new employees. (Lvl 50)
2. We've decided to not take into consideration all of your progress (tracking of xp), nor give you that significant raise, and to be fair, give everyone, including new employees, a small raise instead. (Everyone starts off at 30cp)
3. Management decides that because you have completed the tasks you enjoy (cadwells) they move you to perform mundane tasks that you hate (dailys, mob grinding) or else you find employment elsewhere (cancel sub). The new employees are afforded the opportunity to work on what you enjoyed but this time are offered an extra cash incentive bonus that was not offered to you while you completed the work (additional chance for cp that you can't earn because you've completed those quests already.)
4. You confront management and they say, don't worry there will be plenty of future opportunities for you to enjoy what you used to do (future quest content), for now we want the new employees to do the fun work because we need to continue to recruit new talent (leveling the playing field). Why don't you continue working on your mundane tasks that we don't care about, off in your little cubicle corner. But just to keep you happy because we value you work, just a little bit, here's a new coffee maker, (justice system), and some fancy pens (facial animations). FYI, just ignore the broken copier (broken class skills). Someday we might get around to fixing the tools you need to do your job. (Facial animations are much more important.)
Now here's the problems I have with your arguments.
@sharee. You say everything's fine. Just wait for new content. Your ignoring the problem. The problem is under the current proposed system, veteren players are getting shafted and paying customers don't like to be told their time was wasted. There is an inequality. Veteren players are not being affored the same opportunity as new players in cp potential with cadwells. Slice and dice it all you want with future speculation on new content but those are the current facts. Veteren players are not being rewarded for their time.
@DanielMaxwell. It's completely arrogant of you to say it's your own fault look in the mirror. It's my own fault for burning through the content because I should have known that the developers would change direction?! It's my own fault because I didn't use WoW as a past case study for assuming eso would do the same thing?! It's my own fault for taking the lead developer at her word when she said xp would be tracked after VR 14 and cp would be capped at an unobtainable number?! You need to look in the mirror and check that arrogance factor.
You two are real pieces of work. I've said my piece and see there is no reasoning or even debating with you guys. It just boggles the mind how people's perceptions can be so detached from reality.
Edited by LegacyDM on December 29, 2014 8:22PMLegacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South9 -
fiftypercentgrey✭✭✭To me it is completely unclear how CP will be earned. I do not know if grinding will be really efficient or not. I do not know if questing will be as rewarding (in terms of CP gaining) as it is now (in vet-rank-gaining).
I do not know if ppl will really care about the lost progression (everything above VR1) because I do not know how difficult it will be to get CP or how important they really are.
I DO know that threads like this one pop up everywhere and I really think that Zenimax made a mistake with their announcements. The information they put out was just enough to make some ppl angry/mad/confused/frustrated and they write about that here (and probably in other forums, too).
A lot.
Would have been better to give no information that is not correct and absolutely clear. Oh well. What a mess.
I refuse to go all drama-queen, though. For now, at least. maybe I'll join the chorus in january, when we actually get to know something.Edited by fiftypercentgrey on December 29, 2014 8:33PMἀπόκρυφος0 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭@joshdm2001_ESO
If HR expects to be hiring a whole lot more than currently is employed, this particular approach does make sense. Alienating the older staff might even result in the convenient reaction of them resigning, quitting or making them vulnerable for the boot."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭
When ZOS made that promise every player had choices to make .joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »I've read through this entire thread and find it quite amusing the logic that some people have.
Let me sum up two prevalent arguments that I think are ubsurd.
@Sharee Because there will be more content later, more cps to earn, and cadwells is just a drop in the ocean as far as xp goes, There is no problem here.
@DanielMaxwell Because players burned through content and company decisions are subject to change the players have no one to blame but themselves.
Ok so let me do an anology.
Let's say I work for a company. I've worked for this company for almost a year busting my butt but having fun (questing) because I enjoy what I do. Within that year, I've learned everything I can and been promoted to as high as I can go (vr 14). By December, management comes to me and says, continue working hard! We are tracking your progress, and by Jan 1st, at your annual evaluation, we will give you a significant raise!
However, by December, management decides to hire new employees. Even though they have only been on the job for one month they too will be evaluated come Jan 1st.
January 1st rolls around and management decides the following:
1. Thank you for all your hard work. We are demoting you to be at the same pay as the new employees. (Lvl 50)
2. We've decided to not take into consideration all of your progress (tracking of xp), nor give you that significant raise, and to be fair, give everyone, including new employees, a small raise instead. (Everyone starts off at 30cp)
3. Management decides that because you have completed the tasks you enjoy (cadwells) they move you to perform mundane tasks that you hate (dailys, mob grinding) or else you find employment elsewhere (cancel sub). The new employees are afforded the opportunity to work on what you enjoyed but this time are offered an extra cash incentive bonus that was not offered to you while you completed the work (additional chance for cp that you can't earn because you've completed those quests already.)
4. You confront management and they say, don't worry there will be plenty of future opportunities for you to enjoy what you used to do (future quest content), for now we want the new employees to do the fun work because we need to continue to recruit new talent (leveling the playing field). Why don't you continue working on your mundane tasks that we don't care about, off in your little cubicle corner. But just to keep you happy because we value you work, just a little bit, here's a new coffee maker, (justice system), and some fancy pens (facial animations). FYI, just ignore the broken copier (broken class skills). Someday we might get around to fixing the tools you need to do your job. (Facial animations are much more important.)
Now here's the problems I have with your arguments.
@sharee. You say everything's fine. Just wait for new content. Your ignoring the problem. The problem is under the current proposed system, veteren players are getting shafted and paying customers don't like to be told their time was wasted. There is an inequality. Veteren players are not being affored the same opportunity as new players in cp potential with cadwells. Slice and dice it all you want with future speculation on new content but those are the current facts. Veteren players are not being rewarded for their time.
@DanielMaxwell. It's completely arrogant of you to say it's your own fault look in the mirror. It's my own fault for burning through the content because I should have known that the developers would change direction?! It's my own fault because I didn't use WoW as a past case study for assuming eso would do the same thing?! It's my own fault for taking the lead developer at her word when she said xp would be tracked after VR 14 and cp would be capped at an unobtainable number?! You need to look in the mirror and check that arrogance factor.
You two are real pieces of work. I've said my piece and see there is no reasoning or even debating with you guys. It just boggles the mind how people's perceptions can be so detached from reality.- They could have chosen to take a break from the game till 1.6 went live . no win or lose for them.
- They could have chosen to quit the game .
- They could have chosen to play the repeatable content and save the non repeatable content for when 1.6 went live . doing this would have given them some XP to convert if ZOS had been able to keep their promise and regardless of the promise from ZOS they would have all of the non repeatable content available to them for progression in the new champion system .
- They could have chosen to play all of the non repeatable content . This choice had the most risk with it . If ZOS did keep the promise you still had no idea as to how much XP would be converted and how much would be lost . Regardless of the promise you still lost all of the non repeatable content for progression in the new champion system .
there you have some of the choices people could have made with some of the consequences of them . Your choices have consequences .
Edited by DanielMaxwell on December 30, 2014 6:26AM2 - They could have chosen to take a break from the game till 1.6 went live . no win or lose for them.
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kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »I've read through this entire thread and find it quite amusing the logic that some people have.
Let me sum up two prevalent arguments that I think are ubsurd.
@Sharee Because there will be more content later, more cps to earn, and cadwells is just a drop in the ocean as far as xp goes, There is no problem here.
@DanielMaxwell Because players burned through content and company decisions are subject to change the players have no one to blame but themselves.
Ok so let me do an anology.
Let's say I work for a company. I've worked for this company for almost a year busting my butt but having fun (questing) because I enjoy what I do. Within that year, I've learned everything I can and been promoted to as high as I can go (vr 14). By December, management comes to me and says, continue working hard! We are tracking your progress, and by Jan 1st, at your annual evaluation, we will give you a significant raise!
However, by December, management decides to hire new employees. Even though they have only been on the job for one month they too will be evaluated come Jan 1st.
January 1st rolls around and management decides the following:
1. Thank you for all your hard work. We are demoting you to be at the same pay as the new employees. (Lvl 50)
2. We've decided to not take into consideration all of your progress (tracking of xp), nor give you that significant raise, and to be fair, give everyone, including new employees, a small raise instead. (Everyone starts off at 30cp)
3. Management decides that because you have completed the tasks you enjoy (cadwells) they move you to perform mundane tasks that you hate (dailys, mob grinding) or else you find employment elsewhere (cancel sub). The new employees are afforded the opportunity to work on what you enjoyed but this time are offered an extra cash incentive bonus that was not offered to you while you completed the work (additional chance for cp that you can't earn because you've completed those quests already.)
4. You confront management and they say, don't worry there will be plenty of future opportunities for you to enjoy what you used to do (future quest content), for now we want the new employees to do the fun work because we need to continue to recruit new talent (leveling the playing field). Why don't you continue working on your mundane tasks that we don't care about, off in your little cubicle corner. But just to keep you happy because we value you work, just a little bit, here's a new coffee maker, (justice system), and some fancy pens (facial animations). FYI, just ignore the broken copier (broken class skills). Someday we might get around to fixing the tools you need to do your job. (Facial animations are much more important.)
Now here's the problems I have with your arguments.
@sharee. You say everything's fine. Just wait for new content. Your ignoring the problem. The problem is under the current proposed system, veteren players are getting shafted and paying customers don't like to be told their time was wasted. There is an inequality. Veteren players are not being affored the same opportunity as new players in cp potential with cadwells. Slice and dice it all you want with future speculation on new content but those are the current facts. Veteren players are not being rewarded for their time.
@DanielMaxwell. It's completely arrogant of you to say it's your own fault look in the mirror. It's my own fault for burning through the content because I should have known that the developers would change direction?! It's my own fault because I didn't use WoW as a past case study for assuming eso would do the same thing?! It's my own fault for taking the lead developer at her word when she said xp would be tracked after VR 14 and cp would be capped at an unobtainable number?! You need to look in the mirror and check that arrogance factor.
You two are real pieces of work. I've said my piece and see there is no reasoning or even debating with you guys. It just boggles the mind how people's perceptions can be so detached from reality.
Very well said and pretty much my thought's exactly, some of these peoples comments makes me wonder how they even managed to enter their parents CC info to subscribe to the game
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »@sharee. You say everything's fine. Just wait for new content. Your ignoring the problem. The problem is under the current proposed system, veteren players are getting shafted and paying customers don't like to be told their time was wasted. There is an inequality.
I have a vet14 NB. I also have a vet1 templar.
My NB has more than twice the number of skillpoints. All weapon lines except destro staff maxed out. Wearing more powerful items. Maxed out mage's and fighter's guild lines. My templar has none of those things.Veteren players are not being affored the same opportunity as new players in cp potential with cadwells.
The CP potential is exactly the same for all players - 3600 points. And you do not need cadwell's quests to get them.Slice and dice it all you want with future speculation on new content but those are the current facts. Veteren players are not being rewarded for their time.
See paragraph 1. My vet 14 character got plenty of rewards for the time i spent reaching max level.Edited by Sharee on December 30, 2014 6:59AM4 -
Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭Makes you wonder if they were trying to keep subs by giving off the idea that hey don't leave, what you do with your end game v14 will mean something when champ system comes out.
If CPs have diminishing returns I don't see what the big deal is if players aren't on a perfectly even starting ground. besides, a month into it those that play like mad will definately have a lot more CP that casuals.. and new players in the future.
kinda leaves a bitter taste, like the forward camp lie.
Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER
PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"1 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The idiotic part in people's logic here is that they think, having leveled to VR14 makes them entitled to compensation and being 'more' and 'better' than players who have ALSO played from launch, but didn't make it to VR14, because they did other stuff than grinding and getting to max level. Heck, someone playing from launch with more hours into the game may only be at VR10, while someone who started playing one month ago is at VR14. People all play this game. People all pay equally for this game. People do it in their OWN way, doing what THEY think is fun, at their OWN pace. The elitism mentality that people here think they need to be compensated is highly irrational and idiotic. Please stop.
And if it's all about XP/CP to you and having fun is unimportant, then please think about if this game is actually worth playing for you.Edited by Koensol on December 30, 2014 8:50AM4 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭The idiotic part in people's logic here is that they think, having leveled to VR14 makes them entitled to compensation and being 'more' and 'better' than players who have ALSO played from launch, but didn't make it to VR14, because they did other stuff than grinding and getting to max level. Heck, someone playing from launch with more hours into the game may only be at VR10, while someone who started playing one month ago is at VR14. People all play this game. People all pay equally for this game. People do it in their OWN way, doing what THEY think is fun, at their OWN pace. The elitism mentality that people here think they need to be compensated is highly irrational and idiotic. Please stop.
And if it's all about XP/CP to you and having fun is unimportant, then please think about if this game is actually worth playing for you.
It's not only VR14 that will get shafted by this. That VR10, you mention, will also be feeling the result of no quests to get CPs with.5 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Who said that VR10 has no more quests to do?The idiotic part in people's logic here is that they think, having leveled to VR14 makes them entitled to compensation and being 'more' and 'better' than players who have ALSO played from launch, but didn't make it to VR14, because they did other stuff than grinding and getting to max level. Heck, someone playing from launch with more hours into the game may only be at VR10, while someone who started playing one month ago is at VR14. People all play this game. People all pay equally for this game. People do it in their OWN way, doing what THEY think is fun, at their OWN pace. The elitism mentality that people here think they need to be compensated is highly irrational and idiotic. Please stop.
And if it's all about XP/CP to you and having fun is unimportant, then please think about if this game is actually worth playing for you.
It's not only VR14 that will get shafted by this. That VR10, you mention, will also be feeling the result of no quests to get CPs with.
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Who said that VR10 has no more quests to do?The idiotic part in people's logic here is that they think, having leveled to VR14 makes them entitled to compensation and being 'more' and 'better' than players who have ALSO played from launch, but didn't make it to VR14, because they did other stuff than grinding and getting to max level. Heck, someone playing from launch with more hours into the game may only be at VR10, while someone who started playing one month ago is at VR14. People all play this game. People all pay equally for this game. People do it in their OWN way, doing what THEY think is fun, at their OWN pace. The elitism mentality that people here think they need to be compensated is highly irrational and idiotic. Please stop.
And if it's all about XP/CP to you and having fun is unimportant, then please think about if this game is actually worth playing for you.
It's not only VR14 that will get shafted by this. That VR10, you mention, will also be feeling the result of no quests to get CPs with.
you miss the point regardless, its about being told to play after oct 3rd when people would do other things if they hadn't said to keep playing. its not about power its about giving credit for the experience from oct 3rd and now as assured.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19182 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
So yet again, it is all about compensation? Not about finding it fun to play the game? If I find a game unfun, or not worthwhile of my time without a compensation for keeping my sub going and playing the game, I would have unsubbed. Know that I don't deny that ZOS has been untactful and sloppy with their words.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Who said that VR10 has no more quests to do?The idiotic part in people's logic here is that they think, having leveled to VR14 makes them entitled to compensation and being 'more' and 'better' than players who have ALSO played from launch, but didn't make it to VR14, because they did other stuff than grinding and getting to max level. Heck, someone playing from launch with more hours into the game may only be at VR10, while someone who started playing one month ago is at VR14. People all play this game. People all pay equally for this game. People do it in their OWN way, doing what THEY think is fun, at their OWN pace. The elitism mentality that people here think they need to be compensated is highly irrational and idiotic. Please stop.
And if it's all about XP/CP to you and having fun is unimportant, then please think about if this game is actually worth playing for you.
It's not only VR14 that will get shafted by this. That VR10, you mention, will also be feeling the result of no quests to get CPs with.
you miss the point regardless, its about being told to play after oct 3rd when people would do other things if they hadn't said to keep playing. its not about power its about giving credit for the experience from oct 3rd and now as assured.
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So yet again, it is all about compensation? Not about finding it fun to play the game? If I find a game unfun, or not worthwhile of my time without a compensation for keeping my sub going and playing the game, I would have unsubbed. Know that I don't deny that ZOS has been untactful and sloppy with their words.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Who said that VR10 has no more quests to do?The idiotic part in people's logic here is that they think, having leveled to VR14 makes them entitled to compensation and being 'more' and 'better' than players who have ALSO played from launch, but didn't make it to VR14, because they did other stuff than grinding and getting to max level. Heck, someone playing from launch with more hours into the game may only be at VR10, while someone who started playing one month ago is at VR14. People all play this game. People all pay equally for this game. People do it in their OWN way, doing what THEY think is fun, at their OWN pace. The elitism mentality that people here think they need to be compensated is highly irrational and idiotic. Please stop.
And if it's all about XP/CP to you and having fun is unimportant, then please think about if this game is actually worth playing for you.
It's not only VR14 that will get shafted by this. That VR10, you mention, will also be feeling the result of no quests to get CPs with.
you miss the point regardless, its about being told to play after oct 3rd when people would do other things if they hadn't said to keep playing. its not about power its about giving credit for the experience from oct 3rd and now as assured.
no clown... get back into the mini-car with the other bozos... they lied period. catch up or get left behind. i flat said we would be doing OTHER things.... not NOTHING. the wife and i have already canceled our subs, so rest assured, i won't be here much longer. just watching to see if they convert back to the Oct 3rd promiseI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Fair enough, please forgive me for not reading through the entire thread filled with QQ, flaming and trolling and having missed your quote. Also, props for the nice ad hominemness in your post. It really helps your argument seem more convincing.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
So yet again, it is all about compensation? Not about finding it fun to play the game? If I find a game unfun, or not worthwhile of my time without a compensation for keeping my sub going and playing the game, I would have unsubbed. Know that I don't deny that ZOS has been untactful and sloppy with their words.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Who said that VR10 has no more quests to do?The idiotic part in people's logic here is that they think, having leveled to VR14 makes them entitled to compensation and being 'more' and 'better' than players who have ALSO played from launch, but didn't make it to VR14, because they did other stuff than grinding and getting to max level. Heck, someone playing from launch with more hours into the game may only be at VR10, while someone who started playing one month ago is at VR14. People all play this game. People all pay equally for this game. People do it in their OWN way, doing what THEY think is fun, at their OWN pace. The elitism mentality that people here think they need to be compensated is highly irrational and idiotic. Please stop.
And if it's all about XP/CP to you and having fun is unimportant, then please think about if this game is actually worth playing for you.
It's not only VR14 that will get shafted by this. That VR10, you mention, will also be feeling the result of no quests to get CPs with.
you miss the point regardless, its about being told to play after oct 3rd when people would do other things if they hadn't said to keep playing. its not about power its about giving credit for the experience from oct 3rd and now as assured.
no clown... get back into the mini-car with the other bozos... they lied period. catch up or get left behind. i flat said we would be doing OTHER things.... not NOTHING. the wife and i have already canceled our subs, so rest assured, i won't be here much longer. just watching to see if they convert back to the Oct 3rd promise
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Fair enough, please forgive me for not reading through the entire thread filled with QQ, flaming and trolling and having missed your quote. Also, props for the nice ad hominemness in your post. It really helps your argument seem more convincing.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
So yet again, it is all about compensation? Not about finding it fun to play the game? If I find a game unfun, or not worthwhile of my time without a compensation for keeping my sub going and playing the game, I would have unsubbed. Know that I don't deny that ZOS has been untactful and sloppy with their words.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Who said that VR10 has no more quests to do?The idiotic part in people's logic here is that they think, having leveled to VR14 makes them entitled to compensation and being 'more' and 'better' than players who have ALSO played from launch, but didn't make it to VR14, because they did other stuff than grinding and getting to max level. Heck, someone playing from launch with more hours into the game may only be at VR10, while someone who started playing one month ago is at VR14. People all play this game. People all pay equally for this game. People do it in their OWN way, doing what THEY think is fun, at their OWN pace. The elitism mentality that people here think they need to be compensated is highly irrational and idiotic. Please stop.
And if it's all about XP/CP to you and having fun is unimportant, then please think about if this game is actually worth playing for you.
It's not only VR14 that will get shafted by this. That VR10, you mention, will also be feeling the result of no quests to get CPs with.
you miss the point regardless, its about being told to play after oct 3rd when people would do other things if they hadn't said to keep playing. its not about power its about giving credit for the experience from oct 3rd and now as assured.
no clown... get back into the mini-car with the other bozos... they lied period. catch up or get left behind. i flat said we would be doing OTHER things.... not NOTHING. the wife and i have already canceled our subs, so rest assured, i won't be here much longer. just watching to see if they convert back to the Oct 3rd promise
you already decided, there for, i have nothing to convince you of.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19182 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh I certainly believe there's a possibility they might have lied, though since we cannot say it for sure, I personally find it more fitting to just say they have been stupid with their words. They have made blunders like this before, loads of them during beta and pre-beta. Not all of them were flat-out lies, just clunky PR and stupid wording. But I don't blame you for saying/thinking/believing they have lied. That also was not the point of my initial post. That was focussed on the mentality of lots of people in this thread.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Fair enough, please forgive me for not reading through the entire thread filled with QQ, flaming and trolling and having missed your quote. Also, props for the nice ad hominemness in your post. It really helps your argument seem more convincing.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
So yet again, it is all about compensation? Not about finding it fun to play the game? If I find a game unfun, or not worthwhile of my time without a compensation for keeping my sub going and playing the game, I would have unsubbed. Know that I don't deny that ZOS has been untactful and sloppy with their words.ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »
Who said that VR10 has no more quests to do?The idiotic part in people's logic here is that they think, having leveled to VR14 makes them entitled to compensation and being 'more' and 'better' than players who have ALSO played from launch, but didn't make it to VR14, because they did other stuff than grinding and getting to max level. Heck, someone playing from launch with more hours into the game may only be at VR10, while someone who started playing one month ago is at VR14. People all play this game. People all pay equally for this game. People do it in their OWN way, doing what THEY think is fun, at their OWN pace. The elitism mentality that people here think they need to be compensated is highly irrational and idiotic. Please stop.
And if it's all about XP/CP to you and having fun is unimportant, then please think about if this game is actually worth playing for you.
It's not only VR14 that will get shafted by this. That VR10, you mention, will also be feeling the result of no quests to get CPs with.
you miss the point regardless, its about being told to play after oct 3rd when people would do other things if they hadn't said to keep playing. its not about power its about giving credit for the experience from oct 3rd and now as assured.
no clown... get back into the mini-car with the other bozos... they lied period. catch up or get left behind. i flat said we would be doing OTHER things.... not NOTHING. the wife and i have already canceled our subs, so rest assured, i won't be here much longer. just watching to see if they convert back to the Oct 3rd promise
you already decided, there for, i have nothing to convince you of.
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Kaliki✭✭✭✭So yet again, it is all about compensation? Not about finding it fun to play the game?
Yes, it is about compensation.
I have fun playing. But a new player can have fun playing and get CP at the same time.
Now if I want to get the same amount of CP I am left with grinding repeatable content, because all XP I made in the old progression system will be deleted and thus meaningless.
To be on the same footing with a lvl50/VR1 player I will have to put in twice the effort. First I had to earn XP in the veteran system, now I have to start from scratch in the champion system. But this time there is not much more non-repeatable content left for me.
EDIT: Grinding or repeating the same couple of quests over and over is not fun for me. So it is about fun as well.Edited by Kaliki on December 30, 2014 9:28AM- Templars: Slower by Design® -3 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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I see. But do we even know how much CP stuff like PVP, DSA, trials and vet dungeons will give us? As far as I know, most of the max lvl players have been doing that stuff. And I believe they would have done it too without ZOS's comment about tracking XP. Because it's about the only real endgame we have. If the CP gain on doing these things turns out to be lower than questing, than I suppose we have a valid concern here. But do we know that for sure?So yet again, it is all about compensation? Not about finding it fun to play the game?
Yes, it is about compensation.
I have fun playing. But a new player can have fun playing and get CP at the same time.
Now if I want to get the same amount of CP I am left with grinding repeatable content, because all XP I made in the old progression system will be deleted and thus meaningless.
To be on the same footing with a lvl50/VR1 player I will have to put in twice the effort. First I had to earn XP in the veteran system, now I have to start from scratch in the champion system. But this time there is not much more non-repeatable content left for me.
EDIT: Grinding or repeating the same couple of quests over and over is not fun for me. So it is about fun as well.
Edited by Koensol on December 30, 2014 9:40AM2 -
Kaliki✭✭✭✭I see. But do we even know how much CP stuff like PVP, DSA, trials and vet dungeons will give us? As far as I know, most of the max lvl players have been doing that stuff. And I believe they would have done it too without ZOS's comment about tracking XP. Because it's about the only real endgame we have. If the CP gain on doing these things turns out to be lower than questing, than I suppose we have a valid concern here. But do we know that for sure?
I assume trials will only award CP for successful kills - not trying hard modes and wiping, but I guess for better gear you can say it is worth working for that anyway. We will have to see about dungeons and PVP.
Why I feel so stupid is because I actively completed content due to that promise of tracking XP. I went to vet dungeons to level skill lines and practice new playstyles and did lots of stuff I would otherwise have just waited with until 1.6.
The promise of tracking XP already gave me an excuse to not feel wronged about having completed almost all dungeon achievements before the undaunted passives came out. I just went to those vet dungeons another 2 dozen times on top of the dozens of times I've been there already.
Deleting the veteran system and making the XP earned so far worthless is just one more time that players who play a lot get a disadvantage, but this time at a much larger scale.
While this is nothing special about mmos as almost every achievements gets easier if you wait, I still cannot easily accept having a large part of my character progression reset/made worth less than the progression and time invested by players who started later.
I guess to me it boils down to this: I have fun playing the game and would have fun if I continued to play the game, but I can only take so much of being put at a disadvantage before it takes away the fun of playing.Edited by Kaliki on December 30, 2014 9:58AM- Templars: Slower by Design® -1 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »@sharee. You say everything's fine. Just wait for new content. Your ignoring the problem. The problem is under the current proposed system, veteren players are getting shafted and paying customers don't like to be told their time was wasted. There is an inequality.
I have a vet14 NB. I also have a vet1 templar.
My NB has more than twice the number of skillpoints. All weapon lines except destro staff maxed out. Wearing more powerful items. Maxed out mage's and fighter's guild lines. My templar has none of those things.Veteren players are not being affored the same opportunity as new players in cp potential with cadwells.
The CP potential is exactly the same for all players - 3600 points. And you do not need cadwell's quests to get them.Slice and dice it all you want with future speculation on new content but those are the current facts. Veteren players are not being rewarded for their time.
See paragraph 1. My vet 14 character got plenty of rewards for the time i spent reaching max level.
you do know that @joshdm2001_ESO is unlikely to respond to what either one of us had to say in response to him .0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The idiotic part in people's logic here is that they think, having leveled to VR14 makes them entitled to compensation and being 'more' and 'better' than players who have ALSO played from launch, but didn't make it to VR14, because they did other stuff than grinding and getting to max level. Heck, someone playing from launch with more hours into the game may only be at VR10, while someone who started playing one month ago is at VR14. People all play this game. People all pay equally for this game. People do it in their OWN way, doing what THEY think is fun, at their OWN pace. The elitism mentality that people here think they need to be compensated is highly irrational and idiotic. Please stop.
And if it's all about XP/CP to you and having fun is unimportant, then please think about if this game is actually worth playing for you.
Wait? Do you think that because you gained the xp to be level 40 that you should be level 40 and not level 30 or 15, etc? Thinking we earned what we were told we were earning isn't entitlement.
The game doesn't level up characters based on the months you've been subbed, it levels them up based on experience gained in the game. My main issue is that I cannot redo the 13 million + xp worth of quests that I did to get to V14 (or 65m for 5 characters) And you see - grinders can still do that b/c they grinded and didn't quest.
People thinking it's ok for those ahead in something to be put in a position to fall behind is irrational, idiotic and unfair. People don't play games that aren't fair for very long.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC5 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My main issue is that I cannot redo the 13 million + xp worth of quests that I did to get to V14 (or 65m for 5 characters) And you see - grinders can still do that b/c they grinded and didn't quest.
And what makes you think someone who grinded and didn't quest will suddenly start doing quests instead of just grinding again?
The grinders grinded for a reason: It is faster way to get XP than questing. The advantage you think they have over you (still having quests to do) is a purely theoretical one, because they will just grind again and ignore the quests just as they did back when they were getting their veteran levels.Edited by Sharee on December 30, 2014 8:55PM5 -
My main issue is that I cannot redo the 13 million + xp worth of quests that I did to get to V14 (or 65m for 5 characters) And you see - grinders can still do that b/c they grinded and didn't quest.
And what makes you think someone who grinded and didn't quest will suddenly start doing quests instead of just grinding again?
The grinders grinded for a reason: It is faster way to get XP than questing. The advantage you think they have over you (still having quests to do) is a purely theoretical one, because they will just grind again and ignore the quests just as they did back when they were getting their veteran levels.
for my play-style, not having the quests from silver and gold, or craglorn would still be a bit of a frustration. i typically use quests to guide my grind locations, and to keep my trade skills up to date as possible. certainly not the "fastest" way to end-game levels but i hate back tracking trades...I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181
