Maintenance for the week of October 28:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 1, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 1, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
ZoS incompetence rears its head again (re: initial champion points nerf)
-
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
You have to remember that they drastically reduced the amount of CP that go into the trees. They talked about this during the live. IIRC from 400 to 100.
Translated into the 30 point cap, it would originally have been a 120 point cap(you can buy for 30 points the same as you could for 120 points under the old system).
4hours/point, times 120 = 480 hours. Take an average player, 2 hours/day gameplay, that's 240 days. That's almost as long as the game has been out.
That is not correct. Please stop with the misinformation. They didn't drastically reduce the number of CP points. They reduced the number of CP points required to access the passives associated with the CP points. Instead of needing 400 CP to unlock each passive it now takes 100. The actual number of CP wasn't reduced in the way you are describing.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xMovingTarget wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
The cap isnt 30. Nobody other than Players ever mentioned the Cap at 30. Only thing that was said is everybody with at least 1 vet char gets 30 points. Nothing else. No word about cap. That word never appeared on the livestream when they talked about the champ system.
So THERE IS NO 30 POINT CAP!!!
Theres only 30 initial points. They just failed to get further because Maria got interrupted all the time.
From what i heard at live, 30 points is the cap. However that is just my interpretation of what was said. If you are right - all the better.3 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?
having played to many MMO games getting 30 points just for accessing a system that is being removed is more then I expect . so i see both sides but i also understand that when old systems are removed you lose the advantages that came with it .2 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?
having played to many MMO games getting 30 points just for accessing a system that is being removed is more then I expect . so i see both sides but i also understand that when old systems are removed you lose the advantages that came with it .
That is not at all what is being discussed here... We're talking about ZOS saying XP was being tracked for champion system, and now suddenly, it's not. What you wrote brings nothing and is not even on topic.
Edit: Again, this is speculation that 30 CP is what we get in 1.6 and nothing more. Nobody is still sure 30 is the cap because ZOS doesn't feel like taking 5 minutes to stop all this chaos...Edited by Averya_Teira on December 21, 2014 8:21PM4 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?
having played to many MMO games getting 30 points just for accessing a system that is being removed is more then I expect . so i see both sides but i also understand that when old systems are removed you lose the advantages that came with it .
That is not at all what is being discussed here... We're talking about ZOS saying XP was being tracked for champion system, and now suddenly, it's not. What you wrote brings nothing and is not even on topic.
They also said they had to change their minds when they put the system to their in house testing and to make a level playing field they said 30... I believe they did track it and most likely saw people with 10000s of CP points (nature of MMO players) and where like wow we would have max level CP people on day one.1 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭So in your opinion..looking for a group and sitting there for hours doing nothing (earning enlightenment) is equal to doing story quests at your own pace and without pause whenever you want for 15-20 million worth of experience (and possibly with enlightenment as well)? If so then you have a special sort of logic and not in a good way.
First, the bolded part. If you are earning XP, you are not earning enlightement. Thus, you will have a lot more enlightement than someone who actively plays. That is the whole point of enlightement - to close the gap between people who play a lot and those who don't.
Second, ZOS stated they want all activities to reward roughly the same CP. That means a vet14 player who already did all static quests will have the opportunity to earn CP at the same rate as someone who has yet to do the quests. There are a lot of v14 characters who did all the quests, so i don't believe ZOS forgot they exist.
First, I know how enlightenment works. It's rest XP. A player with no Vet characters may have multiple characters so they could all have enlightenment depending how they play so the example I gave is still valid. Not to mention that some of the max level players have multiple max level characters so if they only like doing quests and there are no quests to work on towards CP they very well may have tons of enlightenment but what good is it if there is no content to work on?
Second, you keep saying this but have yet to provide any examples. You are taking a vague statement from ZOS and regurgitating it as some sort of fact here but it has no bearing on reality. What other activities are there? PvE questing, PvP or grinding. There are other activities in the game like fishing, harvesting, crafting but none of these are associated with prolonged XP gain like the main 3 activities of questing, grinding or PvP. Please do enlighten us or refrain from using a bogus argument that lacks substance.1 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?
having played to many MMO games getting 30 points just for accessing a system that is being removed is more then I expect . so i see both sides but i also understand that when old systems are removed you lose the advantages that came with it .
That is not at all what is being discussed here... We're talking about ZOS saying XP was being tracked for champion system, and now suddenly, it's not. What you wrote brings nothing and is not even on topic.
They also said they had to change their minds when they put the system to their in house testing and to make a level playing field they said 30... I believe they did track it and most likely saw people with 10000s of CP points (nature of MMO players) and where like wow we would have max level CP people on day one.
That is not possible given that 1 CP = 4 hours. You know a lot of people with time stopping machines around your area ?
Here is some math if the 1.6 announcement about tracking XP was made 60 days ago (no idea, rough estimate) :
A robot plays ESO
24 hours X 60 days = 1440 hours of XP
1 CP = 4 hours so 1440 / 4 = 360 CP
So you played FOURTEEN HUNDRED AND FORTY hours in the last 60 days and you are STILL only 10% into the champion system.
(Yeah, Enlightment isn't considered, okay, let's say 1300 hours then.. woohoo...)Edited by Averya_Teira on December 21, 2014 8:29PM1 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?
having played to many MMO games getting 30 points just for accessing a system that is being removed is more then I expect . so i see both sides but i also understand that when old systems are removed you lose the advantages that came with it .
That is not at all what is being discussed here... We're talking about ZOS saying XP was being tracked for champion system, and now suddenly, it's not. What you wrote brings nothing and is not even on topic.
They also said they had to change their minds when they put the system to their in house testing and to make a level playing field they said 30... I believe they did track it and most likely saw people with 10000s of CP points (nature of MMO players) and where like wow we would have max level CP people on day one.
That is not possible given that 1 CP = 4 hours. You know a lot of people with time stopping machines around your area ?
They said that VR14 would take a year and people got that in 1 day... 1CP =4hours is a JOKE... We all know people will find a way to get 1000s of CPs in a week. Its like EQ, WOW and SWQ people find a way to level super fast.3 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭So in your opinion..looking for a group and sitting there for hours doing nothing (earning enlightenment) is equal to doing story quests at your own pace and without pause whenever you want for 15-20 million worth of experience (and possibly with enlightenment as well)? If so then you have a special sort of logic and not in a good way.
First, the bolded part. If you are earning XP, you are not earning enlightement. Thus, you will have a lot more enlightement than someone who actively plays. That is the whole point of enlightement - to close the gap between people who play a lot and those who don't.
Second, ZOS stated they want all activities to reward roughly the same CP. That means a vet14 player who already did all static quests will have the opportunity to earn CP at the same rate as someone who has yet to do the quests. There are a lot of v14 characters who did all the quests, so i don't believe ZOS forgot they exist.
First, I know how enlightenment works. It's rest XP. A player with no Vet characters may have multiple characters so they could all have enlightenment depending how they play so the example I gave is still valid. Not to mention that some of the max level players have multiple max level characters so if they only like doing quests and there are no quests to work on towards CP they very well may have tons of enlightenment but what good is it if there is no content to work on?
Second, you keep saying this but have yet to provide any examples. You are taking a vague statement from ZOS and regurgitating it as some sort of fact here but it has no bearing on reality. What other activities are there? PvE questing, PvP or grinding. There are other activities in the game like fishing, harvesting, crafting but none of these are associated with prolonged XP gain like the main 3 activities of questing, grinding or PvP. Please do enlighten us or refrain from using a bogus argument that lacks substance.
They are planning on bring out new content though... and I think when we are all level 50 it will change the game massively. This 30 CP thing is nothing to the complaints that we will hear when VR14s are made level 50... because most people dont visit the forums and when I explained this change in guild the first thing everyone said was I will quit if they make my VR14 lv 50.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So in your opinion..looking for a group and sitting there for hours doing nothing (earning enlightenment) is equal to doing story quests at your own pace and without pause whenever you want for 15-20 million worth of experience (and possibly with enlightenment as well)? If so then you have a special sort of logic and not in a good way.
First, the bolded part. If you are earning XP, you are not earning enlightement. Thus, you will have a lot more enlightement than someone who actively plays. That is the whole point of enlightement - to close the gap between people who play a lot and those who don't.
Second, ZOS stated they want all activities to reward roughly the same CP. That means a vet14 player who already did all static quests will have the opportunity to earn CP at the same rate as someone who has yet to do the quests. There are a lot of v14 characters who did all the quests, so i don't believe ZOS forgot they exist.
First, I know how enlightenment works. It's rest XP. A player with no Vet characters may have multiple characters so they could all have enlightenment depending how they play so the example I gave is still valid.
Remember that CP are earned on a per-account basis, not per-character. That means there is only one enlightement pool - you can't have more enlightened playtime by having multiple alts and cycling through them. This is how it differs from rest XP (other difference is that you earn it even while online)Not to mention that some of the max level players have multiple max level characters so if they only like doing quests and there are no quests to work on towards CP they very well may have tons of enlightenment but what good is it if there is no content to work on?
Leave that to ZOS to worry about. It's their responsibility to give all players the same opportunity to earn CP, as they said they would.Second, you keep saying this but have yet to provide any examples. You are taking a vague statement from ZOS and regurgitating it as some sort of fact here but it has no bearing on reality.
*I* should give you examples of what *ZOS* is planning? Not unless they give me a job first
2 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?
having played to many MMO games getting 30 points just for accessing a system that is being removed is more then I expect . so i see both sides but i also understand that when old systems are removed you lose the advantages that came with it .
That is not at all what is being discussed here... We're talking about ZOS saying XP was being tracked for champion system, and now suddenly, it's not. What you wrote brings nothing and is not even on topic.
They also said they had to change their minds when they put the system to their in house testing and to make a level playing field they said 30... I believe they did track it and most likely saw people with 10000s of CP points (nature of MMO players) and where like wow we would have max level CP people on day one.
That is not possible given that 1 CP = 4 hours. You know a lot of people with time stopping machines around your area ?
They said that VR14 would take a year and people got that in 1 day... 1CP =4hours is a JOKE... We all know people will find a way to get 1000s of CPs in a week. Its like EQ, WOW and SWQ people find a way to level super fast.
Well, I am obviously talking about legitimate ways of earning it... What's your point exactly ? This discussion isn't about exploits, the system is not even out, people don't exploit it...
If people find a way to do what you wrote, then why not give people the CPs they deserve when 1.6 launches if everyone can catch up to then in 3 hours exploiting ? Even less reasons to cap it at 30 points lol...
Thanks, your argument works in my favor.Edited by Averya_Teira on December 21, 2014 8:34PM2 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
It has nothing to do with other players but rather some representation of the XP earned from vet content. If 30 CP was somehow representative of the 20 million XP earned while doing vet content then fine but we all know that is completely untrue. It's not unfair because someone at V1 is getting 30 free CP..nobody cares about that. It's unfair because someone at V1 is getting 30 CP *AND* still has access to 20 million or more XP that is represented by the veteran content. That's it. Nothing else.
would it make you feel better if they choose to instead reset all level 50 and level 50 plus quests and give nobody any champion system points ?onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Grinding includes doing quests.
False. Please don't post incorrect things.
It does include doing quests when you are killing mobs along the way that you might not otherwise do. It's all part of the results of the xp tracking.
Again, 100% false. Grinding is absolutely, completely, mutually exclusive to questing. Please stop posting false information.
It is not false, just subjective. Someone who hates questing, but does quest after quest after quest for hours on end anyway just because it is the fastest way to level and he wants to hit the max asap - this person would subjectively consider his activity to be a grind.
Again, 100% false and not up to interpretation.
Grinding is a term. A defined term. You can't just make up your own definition for it.
Grinding is killing mobs over and over and over in 1 spot or area.. That is all grinding is. If you ride off to a quest giver and then get another quest and then ride to a new location to complete a quest, that's not grinding.
Period.
Its not up for debate.
You are wrong. That is all.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grindgrind
(grīnd)
v. ground (ground), grind·ing, grinds
4. Informal A laborious task, routine, or study: the daily grind.
17. laborious, usu. uninteresting work.
Grinding in relation to gaming is not a dictionary term it's a gaming term.
If there are multiple possible definitions of grinding then you can not claim people are wrong when they use the other definition than the one you meant. That was my point.
If i say that doing quests repeatedly is grinding for me, nobody is in a position to say i am wrong. Because one of the definitions of grinding equals it to 'repetitive, laborious, uninteresting work', and for some, that's exactly what repetitive questing is.
There are plenty of terms that relate to gaming and don't have the same or identical meaning outside of gaming. If you want to purposely use the term incorrectly for the benefit of proving your point that's your own misinformed decision but it doesn't change the term definition as it relates to gaming.
you can grind quests , mobs , dungeons , or skill lines .
every thing in the game is a grind , that does not mean that every thing in the game is unpleasant .
you grind quests by grabbing every quest in a quest hub doing them then turning them in before moving to the next hub.
you grind dungeons by forming a group and running dungeons back to back .
you grind mobs by finding a location with a high respawn rate of mobs that give a decent amount of XP based on being solo or in a group .
you grind skill lines by using them or focusing on the actions that progress them .
It would make me feel better if they did something fair and proportional and followed through on their promise to reward players who continued to play while waiting for CP system to be released. Some of us knew there was a potential issue with this and it was brought up if vet content should be saved and we were told to go ahead and burn through it because it was being tracked and would be converted to CP later.
You can make declarative statements all you want but that is not grinding. Grinding has nothing to do with pleasant or unpleasant or quests. It's grinding on mobs for XP (or in some cases faction). That's it. It's a term that was coined prior to WoW which is the first real game that leveled by way of questing. Some of the newer MMO players want to attach questing to the term because they don't like questing but that is incorrect. Grinding is grinding on mobs. Period. End of story. Not up for debate.0 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I have done all the fun content (meaning quests). Now I'm forced to do the crappy content to earn Champion Points?Second, ZOS stated they want all activities to reward roughly the same CP. That means a vet14 player who already did all static quests will have the opportunity to earn CP at the same rate as someone who has yet to do the quests. There are a lot of v14 characters who did all the quests, so i don't believe ZOS forgot they exist.
Please don't force me to do the repeatable quests in Cyrodiil again. I can only fill the cache and kill stupid daedra so many times before I snap.
Those quests are a disgrace compared to what we get to experience in the other zones. I know that the team that created them is focusing on PVP and doesn't have the same background as the team creating the other quests. In my opinion they deserve a full rework if they are supposed to become more important in the future.
Veteran Dungeon and Trial farming is not fun. 20 mins for a dungeon. 10 mins for AA/Hel Ra and repeat forever? This also seems awful.Wololo.2 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭xMovingTarget wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
The cap isnt 30. Nobody other than Players ever mentioned the Cap at 30. Only thing that was said is everybody with at least 1 vet char gets 30 points. Nothing else. No word about cap. That word never appeared on the livestream when they talked about the champ system.
So THERE IS NO 30 POINT CAP!!!
Theres only 30 initial points. They just failed to get further because Maria got interrupted all the time.
I was thinking the same thing and I hope that is correct. All this drama is mainly from the lack of clarification of this. I'm hoping on Monday this will be clarified.0 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭So in your opinion..looking for a group and sitting there for hours doing nothing (earning enlightenment) is equal to doing story quests at your own pace and without pause whenever you want for 15-20 million worth of experience (and possibly with enlightenment as well)? If so then you have a special sort of logic and not in a good way.
First, the bolded part. If you are earning XP, you are not earning enlightement. Thus, you will have a lot more enlightement than someone who actively plays. That is the whole point of enlightement - to close the gap between people who play a lot and those who don't.
Second, ZOS stated they want all activities to reward roughly the same CP. That means a vet14 player who already did all static quests will have the opportunity to earn CP at the same rate as someone who has yet to do the quests. There are a lot of v14 characters who did all the quests, so i don't believe ZOS forgot they exist.
First, I know how enlightenment works. It's rest XP. A player with no Vet characters may have multiple characters so they could all have enlightenment depending how they play so the example I gave is still valid.
Remember that CP are earned on a per-account basis, not per-character. That means there is only one enlightement pool - you can't have more enlightened playtime by having multiple alts and cycling through them. This is how it differs from rest XP (other difference is that you earn it even while online)Not to mention that some of the max level players have multiple max level characters so if they only like doing quests and there are no quests to work on towards CP they very well may have tons of enlightenment but what good is it if there is no content to work on?
Leave that to ZOS to worry about. It's their responsibility to give all players the same opportunity to earn CP, as they said they would.Second, you keep saying this but have yet to provide any examples. You are taking a vague statement from ZOS and regurgitating it as some sort of fact here but it has no bearing on reality.
*I* should give you examples of what *ZOS* is planning? Not unless they give me a job first
The bold part is a straight lie. They even say in Dec 19 ESO live that you can play your low level alt while your VR character is gaining enlightened XP...
2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »So in your opinion..looking for a group and sitting there for hours doing nothing (earning enlightenment) is equal to doing story quests at your own pace and without pause whenever you want for 15-20 million worth of experience (and possibly with enlightenment as well)? If so then you have a special sort of logic and not in a good way.
First, the bolded part. If you are earning XP, you are not earning enlightement. Thus, you will have a lot more enlightement than someone who actively plays. That is the whole point of enlightement - to close the gap between people who play a lot and those who don't.
Second, ZOS stated they want all activities to reward roughly the same CP. That means a vet14 player who already did all static quests will have the opportunity to earn CP at the same rate as someone who has yet to do the quests. There are a lot of v14 characters who did all the quests, so i don't believe ZOS forgot they exist.
First, I know how enlightenment works. It's rest XP. A player with no Vet characters may have multiple characters so they could all have enlightenment depending how they play so the example I gave is still valid.
Remember that CP are earned on a per-account basis, not per-character. That means there is only one enlightement pool - you can't have more enlightened playtime by having multiple alts and cycling through them. This is how it differs from rest XP (other difference is that you earn it even while online)Not to mention that some of the max level players have multiple max level characters so if they only like doing quests and there are no quests to work on towards CP they very well may have tons of enlightenment but what good is it if there is no content to work on?
Leave that to ZOS to worry about. It's their responsibility to give all players the same opportunity to earn CP, as they said they would.Second, you keep saying this but have yet to provide any examples. You are taking a vague statement from ZOS and regurgitating it as some sort of fact here but it has no bearing on reality.
*I* should give you examples of what *ZOS* is planning? Not unless they give me a job first
The bold part is a straight lie. They even say in Dec 19 ESO live that you can play your low level alt while your VR character is gaining enlightened XP...
That is only because low level alts can not earn champion points. They are not earning XP towards next champion point, thus the account is gaining enlightement.
But if you are playing a vet alt, he earns XP towards next CP, and thus enlightement on your account is consumed, rather than created.0 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭So in your opinion..looking for a group and sitting there for hours doing nothing (earning enlightenment) is equal to doing story quests at your own pace and without pause whenever you want for 15-20 million worth of experience (and possibly with enlightenment as well)? If so then you have a special sort of logic and not in a good way.
First, the bolded part. If you are earning XP, you are not earning enlightement. Thus, you will have a lot more enlightement than someone who actively plays. That is the whole point of enlightement - to close the gap between people who play a lot and those who don't.
Second, ZOS stated they want all activities to reward roughly the same CP. That means a vet14 player who already did all static quests will have the opportunity to earn CP at the same rate as someone who has yet to do the quests. There are a lot of v14 characters who did all the quests, so i don't believe ZOS forgot they exist.
First, I know how enlightenment works. It's rest XP. A player with no Vet characters may have multiple characters so they could all have enlightenment depending how they play so the example I gave is still valid.
Remember that CP are earned on a per-account basis, not per-character. That means there is only one enlightement pool - you can't have more enlightened playtime by having multiple alts and cycling through them. This is how it differs from rest XP (other difference is that you earn it even while online)Not to mention that some of the max level players have multiple max level characters so if they only like doing quests and there are no quests to work on towards CP they very well may have tons of enlightenment but what good is it if there is no content to work on?
Leave that to ZOS to worry about. It's their responsibility to give all players the same opportunity to earn CP, as they said they would.Second, you keep saying this but have yet to provide any examples. You are taking a vague statement from ZOS and regurgitating it as some sort of fact here but it has no bearing on reality.
*I* should give you examples of what *ZOS* is planning? Not unless they give me a job first
You only have one enlightenment pool but whether or not you are spending/earning depends on what you are doing (or not doing). The point was that depending on how someone plays they could be doing the vet content with enlightenment as well.
Glad you have so much faith to take some vague comment in a stream and extrapolate that into some concrete in-game changes that would drastically alter the reality of the current game. Most of us don't make those types of assumptions without more info. You don't appear to have that problem.0 -
BCBasher✭✭✭Why on earth would it be a good idea to punish long time paying customers who stayed and played through all the speed-bumps to entice late comers and quitters/returning players?
This is my first MMO, never got into any before because starting from the ground up on a competitive game years in sounded like an uphill fight. I loved ES and Fallout games and this was the perfect one for me to get into from day one. Am I crazy to think that a large time contentment, 29days, 23hours, 34minutes, 59seccond on just my main character that would put me ahead of "casuals" as it should? I hit vr14 at something like 18 days /played about the time the "keep playing your vr1+s were tracking xp" quote came out. I pay my subs in advance 3 months at a time since EA, I average over 4 hours of eso a day if you include my craftier and sporadically played alts. I'm a lackluster player with third world internet and know I'll never be as "good" at the top 10 on the leaderboard but my time should be worth something. This is turning into that "Special Olympics" everything's fair *** that they're teaching in schools and it's wrong. People who are skilled, put in more time, or find loopholes even get ahead as they should.
This is especially insulting considering how many campaign cycles have passed yet there's thousands of "former Emperors" but that's no biggie.5 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?
having played to many MMO games getting 30 points just for accessing a system that is being removed is more then I expect . so i see both sides but i also understand that when old systems are removed you lose the advantages that came with it .
That is not at all what is being discussed here... We're talking about ZOS saying XP was being tracked for champion system, and now suddenly, it's not. What you wrote brings nothing and is not even on topic.
Edit: Again, this is speculation that 30 CP is what we get in 1.6 and nothing more. Nobody is still sure 30 is the cap because ZOS doesn't feel like taking 5 minutes to stop all this chaos...
the point is they do not have to even give you the 30 points , also you do not know what changes where made to the champion system beyond the reduction in the number of points needed to unlock each passive in the various trees .
they very well could have had players who would have been at a zero progression point under the champion system making a 30% cap a good choice . none of us have any way of proving how much XP anybody has, since that information is only in the hands of ZOS .
anytime a game's mechanics or systems are changed or removed you are not entitled to a head start in the updated or new mechanics and systems . so be glad that ZOS is willing to give you a 30% head start on the new champion system .
if you are upset because you have done all of the currently available quests look in the mirror to see who you have to blame for that , no one forced you to complete them you choose to complete them based on a your expectation of a future reward that was not reliably secure (games change and game systems are seldom implemented as first planned)2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Glad you have so much faith to take some vague comment in a stream and extrapolate that into some concrete in-game changes that would drastically alter the reality of the current game. Most of us don't make those types of assumptions without more info. You don't appear to have that problem.
The only assumption i am making is that when ZOS says they will make all activities in game give the same amount of CP, they will do just that.2 -
BCBasher✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?
having played to many MMO games getting 30 points just for accessing a system that is being removed is more then I expect . so i see both sides but i also understand that when old systems are removed you lose the advantages that came with it .
That is not at all what is being discussed here... We're talking about ZOS saying XP was being tracked for champion system, and now suddenly, it's not. What you wrote brings nothing and is not even on topic.
Edit: Again, this is speculation that 30 CP is what we get in 1.6 and nothing more. Nobody is still sure 30 is the cap because ZOS doesn't feel like taking 5 minutes to stop all this chaos...
the point is they do not have to even give you the 30 points , also you do not know what changes where made to the champion system beyond the reduction in the number of points needed to unlock each passive in the various trees .
they very well could have had players who would have been at a zero progression point under the champion system making a 30% cap a good choice . none of us have any way of proving how much XP anybody has, since that information is only in the hands of ZOS .
anytime a game's mechanics or systems are changed or removed you are not entitled to a head start in the updated or new mechanics and systems . so be glad that ZOS is willing to give you a 30% head start on the new champion system .
if you are upset because you have done all of the currently available quests look in the mirror to see who you have to blame for that , no one forced you to complete them you choose to complete them based on a your expectation of a future reward that was not reliably secure (games change and game systems are seldom implemented as first planned)
Not entitled, we were told we would have an advantage if we continued to progress our max level characters.
2 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »Leveling the playing field is a good thing (if that is in fact what is going to happen).
The playing field IS level. We have all been playing the same game.
Lets not confuse equal opportunity with equality of outcome!
3 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?
having played to many MMO games getting 30 points just for accessing a system that is being removed is more then I expect . so i see both sides but i also understand that when old systems are removed you lose the advantages that came with it .
That is not at all what is being discussed here... We're talking about ZOS saying XP was being tracked for champion system, and now suddenly, it's not. What you wrote brings nothing and is not even on topic.
Edit: Again, this is speculation that 30 CP is what we get in 1.6 and nothing more. Nobody is still sure 30 is the cap because ZOS doesn't feel like taking 5 minutes to stop all this chaos...
the point is they do not have to even give you the 30 points , also you do not know what changes where made to the champion system beyond the reduction in the number of points needed to unlock each passive in the various trees .
they very well could have had players who would have been at a zero progression point under the champion system making a 30% cap a good choice . none of us have any way of proving how much XP anybody has, since that information is only in the hands of ZOS .
anytime a game's mechanics or systems are changed or removed you are not entitled to a head start in the updated or new mechanics and systems . so be glad that ZOS is willing to give you a 30% head start on the new champion system .
if you are upset because you have done all of the currently available quests look in the mirror to see who you have to blame for that , no one forced you to complete them you choose to complete them based on a your expectation of a future reward that was not reliably secure (games change and game systems are seldom implemented as first planned)
Why do you keep writting 30% ? the total CP is 3600. 30 points is 0,83% ...
And seriously, people need to blame themselves because they did content? What? Pretty sure a lot of people did Silver and Gold to... know you... be VR14 and do the endgame content ? Now they change the system and all that leveling meant nothing. That's a huge problem, even worse because they said the exact opposite of what they are doing... and if you don't see it, open your eyes lol.Edited by Averya_Teira on December 21, 2014 9:09PM3 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »anytime a game's mechanics or systems are changed or removed you are not entitled to a head start in the updated or new mechanics and systems . so be glad that ZOS is willing to give you a 30% head start on the new champion system .
Are you serious? Is there ANY precedent for that in another game, where essentially a RELAUNCH takes place that re-levels all the players equal to one another and essentially undoes existing character progression?
Maybe so. But your point is absurd. Of course they can do whatever they want. It's their game. I don't think anyone is suggesting their hands are tied.
But, when treated unfairly, we can leave. That's what we can do.
Edited by olemanwinter on December 22, 2014 2:36AM2 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »Averya_Teira wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
People are mad because they lied, and 30 CP is 120 hours if you have 0 enlightment. A lot of people will have played A LOT more hours than this from the time they announced XP was being tracked to somewhere in February when 1.6 launches... robbing people of ''their time''.
ZOS made it clear from the beginning that there would be a cap on the amount of CP you can earn in advance. Thus they are not robbing anyone of anything. The cap is 30, like it or not.
They also wrote that cap would be so high nobody would probably reach it. You can't use part of the information to make your point look right...
at the time they made that promise the number of points you could obtain in the champion system was much higher then is allowed under the version that is planned to go on the PTS next month . The changes to the champion system since that promise was made could have made that plan impractical ,or impossible , to implement in a manner that they deemed fair .
if you have been playing computer games (offline and online) for more then 5 years then you should know that any promise made by a developer is subject to change as the various systems are reworked leading to some intended actions no longer be able to be done . they did say that the champion system has changed from what they had planed when that promise was made .
The problem here is that there are literally NO downside to giving the earned CPs without a cap... First, it's not like someone will have earned enough XP to have 1000 CP or whatever. Second, who really cares that guy with 50 more CP is 5,4 % more powerful than you are ? He earned it, let him have it, with my VR3, I don't care, why should you ?
Everyone is saying, well this is the cap, live with it, stop whining. I see no one telling you the opposite: He will have 30-50 more CP than you, it's only a 5% power increase, live with it, stop whining...
See how that works both sides ?
having played to many MMO games getting 30 points just for accessing a system that is being removed is more then I expect . so i see both sides but i also understand that when old systems are removed you lose the advantages that came with it .
That is not at all what is being discussed here... We're talking about ZOS saying XP was being tracked for champion system, and now suddenly, it's not. What you wrote brings nothing and is not even on topic.
Edit: Again, this is speculation that 30 CP is what we get in 1.6 and nothing more. Nobody is still sure 30 is the cap because ZOS doesn't feel like taking 5 minutes to stop all this chaos...
the point is they do not have to even give you the 30 points , also you do not know what changes where made to the champion system beyond the reduction in the number of points needed to unlock each passive in the various trees .
they very well could have had players who would have been at a zero progression point under the champion system making a 30% cap a good choice . none of us have any way of proving how much XP anybody has, since that information is only in the hands of ZOS .
anytime a game's mechanics or systems are changed or removed you are not entitled to a head start in the updated or new mechanics and systems . so be glad that ZOS is willing to give you a 30% head start on the new champion system .
if you are upset because you have done all of the currently available quests look in the mirror to see who you have to blame for that , no one forced you to complete them you choose to complete them based on a your expectation of a future reward that was not reliably secure (games change and game systems are seldom implemented as first planned)
Why do you keep writting 30% ? the total CP is 3600. 30 points is 0,83% ...
And seriously, people need to blame themselves because they did content? What? Pretty sure a lot of people did Silver and Gold to... know you... be VR14 and do the endgame content ? Now they change the system and all that leveling meant nothing. That's a huge problem, even worse because they said the exact opposite of what they are doing... and if you don't see it, open your eyes lol.
correct should have put in 30 points thats my bad .
yes you need to blame your self , unless ZOS came to your house and forced you to sit at your computer and complete every quest in the caldwells silver and gold lines . Other wise you are the only person responsible for how you play this , or any , game.
Based on my past experience with online games I knew that the promise they made could not be kept as they intended , simply because I have not seen any developer implement any new system as they first planned to implement it .3 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »ZoS decision to give everyone 30 CPs, period, no matter what VR rank you have, no matter how much XP you've earned AFTER BEING TOLD BY ZOS IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS CPs, no matter how many VRs you've leveled, is a bad decision and shows ZoS utter incompetence.
Imagine for a second that they kept their initial plan (that you have to get XP to earn your inital CP pool, and that there would be a cap on how many you can earn in advance), and set the CP cap at 30.
Would you still be mad today? After all, they did exactly what they promised, so the answer should be no, right?
Fast forward. They "broke their promise" by giving you exactly the same 30 CP you would get above, except that they told you everyone is getting them. And you are mad.
Literally the only difference between these scenarios is that the other players are getting 30 CP as well. And this makes you mad?
Nothing has changed as far as you are concerned, but oh my god, THEY are getting something for free! Burn them, burn them all!
/rollseyes.
It has nothing to do with other players but rather some representation of the XP earned from vet content. If 30 CP was somehow representative of the 20 million XP earned while doing vet content then fine but we all know that is completely untrue. It's not unfair because someone at V1 is getting 30 free CP..nobody cares about that. It's unfair because someone at V1 is getting 30 CP *AND* still has access to 20 million or more XP that is represented by the veteran content. That's it. Nothing else.
would it make you feel better if they choose to instead reset all level 50 and level 50 plus quests and give nobody any champion system points ?onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Grinding includes doing quests.
False. Please don't post incorrect things.
It does include doing quests when you are killing mobs along the way that you might not otherwise do. It's all part of the results of the xp tracking.
Again, 100% false. Grinding is absolutely, completely, mutually exclusive to questing. Please stop posting false information.
It is not false, just subjective. Someone who hates questing, but does quest after quest after quest for hours on end anyway just because it is the fastest way to level and he wants to hit the max asap - this person would subjectively consider his activity to be a grind.
Again, 100% false and not up to interpretation.
Grinding is a term. A defined term. You can't just make up your own definition for it.
Grinding is killing mobs over and over and over in 1 spot or area.. That is all grinding is. If you ride off to a quest giver and then get another quest and then ride to a new location to complete a quest, that's not grinding.
Period.
Its not up for debate.
You are wrong. That is all.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grindgrind
(grīnd)
v. ground (ground), grind·ing, grinds
4. Informal A laborious task, routine, or study: the daily grind.
17. laborious, usu. uninteresting work.
Grinding in relation to gaming is not a dictionary term it's a gaming term.
If there are multiple possible definitions of grinding then you can not claim people are wrong when they use the other definition than the one you meant. That was my point.
If i say that doing quests repeatedly is grinding for me, nobody is in a position to say i am wrong. Because one of the definitions of grinding equals it to 'repetitive, laborious, uninteresting work', and for some, that's exactly what repetitive questing is.
There are plenty of terms that relate to gaming and don't have the same or identical meaning outside of gaming. If you want to purposely use the term incorrectly for the benefit of proving your point that's your own misinformed decision but it doesn't change the term definition as it relates to gaming.
you can grind quests , mobs , dungeons , or skill lines .
every thing in the game is a grind , that does not mean that every thing in the game is unpleasant .
you grind quests by grabbing every quest in a quest hub doing them then turning them in before moving to the next hub.
you grind dungeons by forming a group and running dungeons back to back .
you grind mobs by finding a location with a high respawn rate of mobs that give a decent amount of XP based on being solo or in a group .
you grind skill lines by using them or focusing on the actions that progress them .
It would make me feel better if they did something fair and proportional and followed through on their promise to reward players who continued to play while waiting for CP system to be released. Some of us knew there was a potential issue with this and it was brought up if vet content should be saved and we were told to go ahead and burn through it because it was being tracked and would be converted to CP later.
You can make declarative statements all you want but that is not grinding. Grinding has nothing to do with pleasant or unpleasant or quests. It's grinding on mobs for XP (or in some cases faction). That's it. It's a term that was coined prior to WoW which is the first real game that leveled by way of questing. Some of the newer MMO players want to attach questing to the term because they don't like questing but that is incorrect. Grinding is grinding on mobs. Period. End of story. Not up for debate.
so then since most other MMO games would give you nothing when they remove one system and replace it with a new system , ZOS giving all VR1 and up accounts 30 points is not fair . be glad they are giving you that much.
as far as grinding goes you have it wrong , grinding is not just farming mobs as I stated how you can do other methods of grinding . grinding in a MMO does not mean just doing activities you do not enjoy , it is all about progressing your character as fast as you can by whatever means are legitimate in the game .
Edited by DanielMaxwell on December 21, 2014 9:56PM2 -
Ohioastro✭✭✭✭If someone has done all the quests, and only likes questing, will all of those unfun other things magically become fun if they get a big pile of champion points?1
-
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭olemanwinter wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »anytime a game's mechanics or systems are changed or removed you are not entitled to a head start in the updated or new mechanics and systems . so be glad that ZOS is willing to give you a 30% head start on the new champion system .
Are you serious? Is there ANY precedent for that in another game, where essentially a RELAUNCH takes place that re-levels all the players equal to one another and essentially undoes existing character progression?
Maybe so. But your point is absurd. Of course they can do whatever they want. It's there game. I don't think anyone is suggesting their hands are tied.
But, when treated unfairly, we can leave. That's what we can do.
yes evry time a game releases an exspansion pack .
an example from WoW that applies , during vanilla WoW they had a system where you had to level your weapons to imrpove you hit chance and reduce your glancing blows . I had a warrior who had every available weapon skill maxxed when they removed that system , I recieved nothing for having achieved that . They put everybody on the same level as far as weapons skill benefits when they did that since they gave everyone the benefits of having maxxed weapon skills when they removed that system . This made my level capped warrior equal to every other level capped warrior before gear is considered . I have been through a situation where I spent the time to obtain a benefit for my character(he could use all allowed weapons without penalty , opposed to warriors who had not maxxed their weapon skills) only to lose it with the removal of the weapon skills system. I still played the game for several years after that happened.
2 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Glad you have so much faith to take some vague comment in a stream and extrapolate that into some concrete in-game changes that would drastically alter the reality of the current game. Most of us don't make those types of assumptions without more info. You don't appear to have that problem.
The only assumption i am making is that when ZOS says they will make all activities in game give the same amount of CP, they will do just that.
So it's OK for you to make a concrete assumption based on one vague comment in a stream but for everyone else to make an assumption based on concrete words that XP would be tracked and vet XP would be converted to CP is somehow flawed? The hypocrisy has become a trend on this topic.2