Why are people upset about the 30 cp thing?

Lionxoft · December 2014

EQBallzz wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

In my opinion, it's because they want to keep it a controlled environment on launch. If players are earning champion points faster than expected then they will want to cut down the accrual rate however if they award a player that has 8 vr14's more points than one person with one vr1 and they cut down that rate it will leave an enormous discrepancy.

This is a preemptive measure for the good of the game. I like it.

That makes no sense. The discrepancy is whatever they say it is. From what they are doing they are making a discrepancy of 30 CP between someone who starts with a V1 and someone who is 49 at the start.

Wouldn't there be a much smaller discrepancy if they just awarded points based on completed vet levels? 5 CP per vet level would keep the discrepancy between players varied depending on your progress in the game. A level 49 player would only be 5 CP behind a V1 player. A V1 player would only be 20 CP behind a V5 player and so on.

Yes, there will be a bigger discrepancy between a V14 and a V1 but that will happen anyway within months if not weeks after starting the system. However, that V1 still has all the silver/gold content to catch up so nothing is lost.

You didn't read what I posted. There is a reason why they are limiting to 30 points on the initial release regardless of character rank or how many VR characters you have. It allows everyone to start at an even ground and helps them monitor and make changes to how points are accrued if necessary. It's a preemptive balancing initiative and one that I can get behind 100%.

I have multiple VR14 characters. This change should make me upset similarly to how you are upset however I'm able to see the reasoning behind it. I suggest you do the same.

EQBallzz · December 2014

Wolfshead wrote: »

@Samadhi‌
It is not ZoS fault that people rush to VR14 for at the end of day it is person that play game that is where fault is laying not at ZoS basically ZoS gave us game and it is up to us how we use it.

Cap is mostlike that most of people have say early it is way stop those how have grinder from day 1 to get max point from start for if honest look at from moment what do you think would happy if play A that have grinder from month get max point of CP???

He would mostlike just put out those point and then he would mostlike just stop play game and then the champion system have lost all it intention i sure would not care of keep playing game if i could max out champion system on day 1 of it is release think about it.

No company want to lose there custom on first week after a the release something new take blizzard why do you think the did not release any raid content the 1st month of WoD really simple if the would have done all those people that hit lvl 100 the 2 first week would have stop play WoD expansion right about now same go for ZoS if the would alow use get max CP from start those how have been VR 14 for month would stop play game for the CP is account bound which mean all there alt would have same point so what is point of play the game then???

Huh? You think all V14 players "rush" and grind? The game has been out since March. That's 9 months. I'm about as slow leveling as it gets and I have two max level characters that have fully completed every zone and POI. Between two characters I have about 17-18k achievement points and no silver/gold quests left at all and Craglorn quests completed on one of them. Just because you started later or level even slower doesn't make everyone else invalid or a mob grinder.

Not that it matters anyway...who cares if someone did grind? They aren't being hurt in this policy anyway. They skipped the quests to grind so now when CS goes live they can go back and do all the quests they skipped to earn max XP for the CS while those of us that completed everything have no options except to grind. It's really not that hard to comprehend.

Also, nobody is asking for vet players to get *all* the points allotted to them. That's a red herring. There are 3600 points in the system. They have stated all will get 30. There is a huge gulf of points between 30 and 3600 that wouldn't include "all" the points. How about 30 for anyone V1 + 5 more for each vet level completed up to V14 but only for one character? That would certainly be fair and is far from all the CP. In fact that's only 130 points total. 130 is much less than 3600. Yes? The gap between 30 and 130 is hardly a huge separation between players. There will be a gap in the future regardless once it goes live so why screw over players now?

Hanokihs · December 2014

Maybe they're just gonna divide the amount of XP they track by 4, in order to compensate for the fewer overall CP they'll make available. So once they get rid of vet levels in a later phase of the system, everything will be relatively normal. If they've got any sense, this is what they'll attempt to do because:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

... we decreased the number of overall points in the system (14,400 to 3,600), but kept the range of what they could alter the same. Because each point is more valuable there are less points overall in the system. Thus we can’t give out as many points with the introduction of the system as originally believed.

Also, considering that there's nothing for a PVE to do anyway, once they finish all the Silver/Gold quests, the same people will still be the same amount of "stuck" if they don't want to grind or do PVP, right? In order to keep playing, we'll just have to reroll, like it was going to be in the first place. I don't really see how the Champion System will change any of that; they still have to create new regions with new storylines if they wanna keep us satisfied and enthralled.

EQBallzz · December 2014

Hanokihs wrote: »

Maybe they're just gonna divide the amount of XP they track by 4, in order to compensate for the fewer overall CP they'll make available. So once they get rid of vet levels in a later phase of the system, everything will be relatively normal. If they've got any sense, this is what they'll attempt to do because:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

... we decreased the number of overall points in the system (14,400 to 3,600), but kept the range of what they could alter the same. Because each point is more valuable there are less points overall in the system. Thus we can’t give out as many points with the introduction of the system as originally believed.

Also, considering that there's nothing for a PVE to do anyway, once they finish all the Silver/Gold quests, the same people will still be the same amount of "stuck" if they don't want to grind or do PVP, right? In order to keep playing, we'll just have to reroll, like it was going to be in the first place. I don't really see how the Champion System will change any of that; they still have to create new regions with new storylines if they wanna keep us satisfied and enthralled.

You people keep stating that they are going to compensate for tracked XP but they stated yesterday that they are NOT doing that anymore. Nobody is getting any CP from vet XP in any form now or in the future. Try actually reading some of the multiple threads on the topic. They may have decreased the number of points but that doesn't explain why they would give someone with 1 vr1 character and someone with 5 vr14 characters the same 30 CP. That makes no logical sense when the person with 5 vr14's has no PvE content left to do and the person with 1 vr1 has ALL the PvE content left to do.

Nacario · December 2014

I dont see the big fuss. U can still farm n grind after 1.6 in craglorn hotspots and get faster exp than those suckers who stick with cadwell zones.

NordJitsu · December 2014

There is no such thing as running out of quests. There are many repeatable quests in Cyrodiil.

And I look forward to the uptick in people roaming around the map.

Let the ganking ensue.

Inklings · December 2014

I expected to be in that 5% they mentioned that would be getting what ever they decided the CP cap would be. I leveled FIVE toons to vr14, ONE to vr5, and TWO to vr1 cause i wanted to max that that converted CP. In doing so i sacrificed making my main character stronger in other aspect such as PvP and end game trail gear. If i would have not been told to keep playing, that all exp between vr1 and after vr14 was being tracked to be converted to CP i would have not played this game the way i did. I would have spent my time pushing for Emp and grinding out PvP levels instead while pursuing end game trails for better gear.

Now when this new system comes out not only am i behind in pvp and other aspects of the game, i also have less ways to gain CP as i depleted all those quests while leveling up. I feel extremely cheated. This isnt the first time either. I was one of those rare players who had all the undaunted achievements racked up prior to 1.5 and received no back credit forcing me to farm the rep for weeks longer then those who didnt run dungeons prior to that patch. Transparency, trust and good decision making seems lost on the ZoS team.

I don't buy for one second their reasoning behind limiting 30cp to everyone at vr1 or higher. And i think its really sad and scary that a lot of you are letting them pull the wool over you eyes on this. The arnt stupid enough to not realize that once this patch goes live, people will grind those CP out so fast that this separation between casual and hardcore players that they are so worried about, will be so big in just one weeks time that their reason behind only giving 30 points to everyone wont mean jack. We have seen this happen in EVERY other mmo and even in this game when the new undaunted line came out. CP farming will be NO different.

The reason they are doing this is cause people will see it as a chance to flock back to this game and be on the same par as when they left. Its nothing more then a cash grab. Don't let them fool you in thinking other wise.

Razzak · December 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

There is no such thing as running out of quests. There are many repeatable quests in Cyrodiil.

And I look forward to the uptick in people roaming around the map.

Let the ganking ensue.

Do you enjoy doing repeatable quests as much as normal ones? Can you spend as much time doing repeatable quests as you do with normal quests?

Lionxoft · December 2014

Razzak wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

There is no such thing as running out of quests. There are many repeatable quests in Cyrodiil.

And I look forward to the uptick in people roaming around the map.

Let the ganking ensue.

Do you enjoy doing repeatable quests as much as normal ones? Can you spend as much time doing repeatable quests as you do with normal quests?

You have more than a month to get a new character to VR1. Better get to it!

zaria · December 2014

Razzak wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

There is no such thing as running out of quests. There are many repeatable quests in Cyrodiil.

And I look forward to the uptick in people roaming around the map.

Let the ganking ensue.

Do you enjoy doing repeatable quests as much as normal ones? Can you spend as much time doing repeatable quests as you do with normal quests?

Simply reward endgame content: pvp dungeons and raid more.
Bonus as you spend more time waiting for group to get ready or looking for action than then questing

Jacques Berge · December 2014

Because some of us did all of the PVE content in the game... Every single quest, all of em... I really don't want to 1. Grind dailies every day, 2. Redo all the quests on another toon. That's why.

murtugo · December 2014

In my opinion, I think Zos' promise that they are tracking our experience is just a lie... I don't think they are competent to do that. Even if they want to, i don't think they can really do that. The 30 CP across-the-board is an easy way out for them... I know from the start that its not going to happen.

Remember from the start of the game when players started losing items in the bank and even bank slots or when some people are losing skill points, ZOS called it as merely a UI problem but i don't really believe that. I don't remember getting my items back when it happened to me. they just gave me some gold to compensate the items i lost. But they did promise me that it is just a UI problem and that the items are still there.

Anyway, the game is still nice so lets just have fun and enjoy it.

Merry Christmas to all.

Sharee · December 2014

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Because some of us did all of the PVE content in the game... Every single quest, all of em... I really don't want to 1. Grind dailies every day, 2. Redo all the quests on another toon. That's why.

ZOS has officially stated (its on the german tracker) that they are going to make sure players with a lot of content already completed are not at a disadvantage when it comes to earning champion points. Give them a chance to show you what they have in mind.

Also, new zones will be coming in a couple of months (i guess). The champion points are earned at such a slow rate that there should be multiple expansions to the game before anyone is able to max his CP out (if that's even possible, it should take years). A month or two should not matter much in the grand scheme of things.

Grund · December 2014

One of the main reasons for changing to the champion system was people whining about having to grind to VR 14. So let me get this right instead of 14 vet levels lets have 3600 champion points ????? WHAT.

The other was ,the developers did not think, the current system allowed for enough customisation of characters, fair point, but here is a novel idea. For those of us who did bother to level multiple vr 14 characters, why not add the champion system on top i.e. have VR14 or level 64 as max level. As many have already stated some of us did all the quests, dungeons and wold bosses/ dolmen's to level leaving us hard choices in how to acquire champion points other than mind numbing, repetitive killing.

Razzak · December 2014

Sharee wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Because some of us did all of the PVE content in the game... Every single quest, all of em... I really don't want to 1. Grind dailies every day, 2. Redo all the quests on another toon. That's why.

ZOS has officially stated (its on the german tracker) that they are going to make sure players with a lot of content already completed are not at a disadvantage when it comes to earning champion points. Give them a chance to show you what they have in mind.

Also, new zones will be coming in a couple of months (i guess). The champion points are earned at such a slow rate that there should be multiple expansions to the game before anyone is able to max his CP out (if that's even possible, it should take years). A month or two should not matter much in the grand scheme of things.

How? Is this another "promise"?

Oh, I see. New zones, that are coming in ... months? Yes, that's the solution.

Muizer · December 2014

Blud wrote: »

I have a VR14 and a VR2. I don't care about the 30 cp.

I think I understand why ZOS is doing it this way, because they don't want people who farmed xp in Craglorn anomalies, etc. before they were nerfed to have a huge advantage over others. I think that's good for ESO.

Skill and knowing how to play your class should give an advantage more than some accrued cp.

Why so much rage over the 30 cp points?

Can someone explain in a reasonable manner why it's such a big deal?

I think there are two lines of argument here.

1) People who argue that ZoS promised to convert account wide xp to CP.
This is for the real die hards, who thought that after the introduction of championship their character with CP points from multiple v14s would far surpass people whose characters got their points from just one v14.

2) People who argue that they worked hard to create one or more v14 characters who now
a) see that experience taken away and
b) see how people with a v1 character can level CP much faster than they, because they still have access to the fastest way of leveling up a character: Cadwell's silver and gold.

I personally don't give a f^%$ about the first argument. Nothing gained, yes, but nothing lost either. Get over it. The second is different. There we definitely lose a lot of what we played for.

Sharee · December 2014

Razzak wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Because some of us did all of the PVE content in the game... Every single quest, all of em... I really don't want to 1. Grind dailies every day, 2. Redo all the quests on another toon. That's why.

ZOS has officially stated (its on the german tracker) that they are going to make sure players with a lot of content already completed are not at a disadvantage when it comes to earning champion points. Give them a chance to show you what they have in mind.

Also, new zones will be coming in a couple of months (i guess). The champion points are earned at such a slow rate that there should be multiple expansions to the game before anyone is able to max his CP out (if that's even possible, it should take years). A month or two should not matter much in the grand scheme of things.

How? Is this another "promise"?

No, it is a statement of intent, just like anything you hear before the game is on live.

Oh, I see. New zones, that are coming in ... months? Yes, that's the solution.

The champion system is a progression that will take years to complete.

Inklings · December 2014

Muizer wrote: »

Blud wrote: »

I have a VR14 and a VR2. I don't care about the 30 cp.

I think I understand why ZOS is doing it this way, because they don't want people who farmed xp in Craglorn anomalies, etc. before they were nerfed to have a huge advantage over others. I think that's good for ESO.

Skill and knowing how to play your class should give an advantage more than some accrued cp.

Why so much rage over the 30 cp points?

Can someone explain in a reasonable manner why it's such a big deal?

I think there are two lines of argument here.

1) People who argue that ZoS promised to convert account wide xp to CP.
This is for the real die hards, who thought that after the introduction of championship their character with CP points from multiple v14s would far surpass people whose characters got their points from just one v14.

2) People who argue that they worked hard to create one or more v14 characters who now
a) see that experience taken away and
b) see how people with a v1 character can level CP much faster than they, because they still have access to the fastest way of leveling up a character: Cadwell's silver and gold.

I personally don't give a f^%$ about the first argument. Nothing gained, yes, but nothing lost either. Get over it. The second is different. There we definitely lose a lot of what we played for.

As someone who has 5 vr14s i just expected to be in that 5% of people who got the caped CP that was talked about by paul sage a few months ago. I didn't expect to be leaps and bounds ahead of the CP race, just ahead is all.

And your 2nd point really hits the nail on the head. I personally wouldnt have made that many alts if i wouldn't have been told that their exp would be converted to CP in some form. I would have spent my time sooooo much different then i did. I would have pushed for Emp. I would have grinded as many pvp levels as i could. I would focused on SO trail run/gear. But now im stuck where i am, months behind on pvp leveling and other aspects of the game. Yeah i might be the minority, but that doesn't make it right what they are doing to players like myself. =(

LtCrunch · December 2014

As you can see in my signature I also have multiple VR characters. One of which is VR14. I'm not overly bothered because the gap between a VR1 and VR14 is still there. Once they go about removing Vet ranks I fully expect them to then compensate players with higher VR characters. Right now giving a VR14 more champion points than a VR1 would just extend the power gap between them(no that's not a good thing).

McLukos · December 2014

Meh

Razzak · December 2014

Brandalf wrote: »

As you can see in my signature I also have multiple VR characters. One of which is VR14. I'm not overly bothered because the gap between a VR1 and VR14 is still there. Once they go about removing Vet ranks I fully expect them to then compensate players with higher VR characters. Right now giving a VR14 more champion points than a VR1 would just extend the power gap between them(no that's not a good thing).

This will NOT happen. It was confirmed today by @ZOS_KaiSchober‌.

Lionxoft · December 2014

Inklings wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Blud wrote: »

I have a VR14 and a VR2. I don't care about the 30 cp.

I think I understand why ZOS is doing it this way, because they don't want people who farmed xp in Craglorn anomalies, etc. before they were nerfed to have a huge advantage over others. I think that's good for ESO.

Skill and knowing how to play your class should give an advantage more than some accrued cp.

Why so much rage over the 30 cp points?

Can someone explain in a reasonable manner why it's such a big deal?

I think there are two lines of argument here.

1) People who argue that ZoS promised to convert account wide xp to CP.
This is for the real die hards, who thought that after the introduction of championship their character with CP points from multiple v14s would far surpass people whose characters got their points from just one v14.

2) People who argue that they worked hard to create one or more v14 characters who now
a) see that experience taken away and
b) see how people with a v1 character can level CP much faster than they, because they still have access to the fastest way of leveling up a character: Cadwell's silver and gold.

I personally don't give a f^%$ about the first argument. Nothing gained, yes, but nothing lost either. Get over it. The second is different. There we definitely lose a lot of what we played for.

I didn't expect to be leaps and bounds ahead of the CP race, just ahead is all.

You're going to be incredibly disappointed when you find out that this "CP race" doesn't have a finish line. It's an alternate advancement system that will go on for years and quite possibly have additions later on.

Lionxoft · December 2014

Razzak wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

As you can see in my signature I also have multiple VR characters. One of which is VR14. I'm not overly bothered because the gap between a VR1 and VR14 is still there. Once they go about removing Vet ranks I fully expect them to then compensate players with higher VR characters. Right now giving a VR14 more champion points than a VR1 would just extend the power gap between them(no that's not a good thing).

This will NOT happen. It was confirmed today by @ZOS_KaiSchober‌.

Just adding some insight on this. You can see more info on the dev tracker.

The system shouldn’t separate players more.
This is pretty self-explanatory, and is related to the first point. While the system is meant to have built in safeguards against players pulling away from each other too dramatically – those systems aren’t in currently. A 1-to-1 XP conversion to Champion XP was too dramatic.

Aett_Thorn · December 2014

So if a 1-to-1 rate was too extreme, why didn't they just lower the rate of conversion to 1-to-4, 1-to-8, or something like that? Instead, they got rid of any conversion whatsoever, and that is why people are made. They were told that they were going to get some credit for what they were doing. and now they are being told that that isn't going to happen.

EQBallzz · December 2014

Lionxoft wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

As you can see in my signature I also have multiple VR characters. One of which is VR14. I'm not overly bothered because the gap between a VR1 and VR14 is still there. Once they go about removing Vet ranks I fully expect them to then compensate players with higher VR characters. Right now giving a VR14 more champion points than a VR1 would just extend the power gap between them(no that's not a good thing).

This will NOT happen. It was confirmed today by @ZOS_KaiSchober‌.

Just adding some insight on this. You can see more info on the dev tracker.

The system shouldn’t separate players more.
This is pretty self-explanatory, and is related to the first point. While the system is meant to have built in safeguards against players pulling away from each other too dramatically – those systems aren’t in currently. A 1-to-1 XP conversion to Champion XP was too dramatic.

If it's not fair to give vet players any conversion for XP from silver/gold content they shouldn't give it to anyone (even in the future). If there are all these magical ways to earn CP without silver/gold (allegedly) then why not make it the same for everyone? Make it so EVERYONE has the same opportunity for CP regardless of when they leveled up or how fast they level.

If grinding, pvp and dailies is so great for vet players to earn CP why isn't it good enough for everyone else? If they are really that worried about the separation of players what are they going to do in 3 weeks when the grinders far outpace the new players that don't have any vet characters yet? Will they have to keep removing CP from players that earn them too fast? This whole argument is bunk.

LtCrunch · December 2014

Razzak wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

As you can see in my signature I also have multiple VR characters. One of which is VR14. I'm not overly bothered because the gap between a VR1 and VR14 is still there. Once they go about removing Vet ranks I fully expect them to then compensate players with higher VR characters. Right now giving a VR14 more champion points than a VR1 would just extend the power gap between them(no that's not a good thing).

This will NOT happen. It was confirmed today by @ZOS_KaiSchober‌.

I think we've learned not to put 100% stock into anything ZOS says at this point, because plans change(obviously). He also didn't say it wouldn't happen, just that we wouldn't be credited for all XP earned across acounts.

I find it extremely contradictory to give them hell about previous statements that are no longer true and assume that current statements will be true in the future. My stance hasn't changed. I still expect something to be done to at least maintain the power gap between characters that are currently VR14 and character that are a lower vet rank(whatever that may be remains to be seen) once the vet ranks are removed.

Voodoo · December 2014

it typical gamer rage over the smallest thing ...just like the rage over the useless rings of mara. we call it "nerd rage". ...and it will pass. ...rather quickly.

Nestor · December 2014

Sharee wrote: »

ZOS has officially stated (its on the german tracker) that they are going to make sure players with a lot of content already completed are not at a disadvantage when it comes to earning champion points. Give them a chance to show you what they have in mind.

Yes, there are other ways to earn points in the game. Currently, questing is the fastest, but not the only way. So, we don't know how all activities in the game are going to contribute to the CP system.

yodased · December 2014

By very definition everything done within this video game is a 'waste of time'.

We are doing exactly 0 productive things while we PLAY A GAME.

So really, comparing which waste of time is more of a waste of time within the overall waste of time is a waste of time.

Artis · December 2014

Palindrome wrote: »

So im confused.
it seems people complain "this not fair. Other people still have quests to do because thwy grind"
if you are all out of quests (not possible multiple dungeon daily s, crag daily, cyro daily) do you not still have the option to grind on mobs, farm dungeons, go and pvp?

Not to mention whatever new over solo and group content is released with 1.6

I really dont see the problem

The problem is that I DON'T WANT to grind. If I wanted to, I would. But I didn't. It's not fun at all. Now, I am forced to do that in order to keep up. Omg, I will lose all the advantages I had and have been working to get. It is simply unfair. I did invest so much time to level up to vr14 and get my gear and stuff.. There SHOULD be discrepancy between vr14 and 13, etc.
Why the heck should we be equal when the Update is released? How is it fair that if I don't play for, say, 2-3 days I will be behind someone who played a few weeks of clear playtime less than I did? So, I've been playing and maxed almost everything I could and now in a heartbeat I will be no closer to a "new" cap than others? WTH?

They already did it with Undaunted, when I was punished for completing the achievements and in the end, some players got their skill line maxed in no time and I still haven't maxed mine. That's a huge problem.

Lionxoft wrote: »

It allows everyone to start at an even ground and helps them monitor and make changes to how points are accrued if necessary.

Why should I start at an even ground with vr1's? Why should I be less powerful compared to others now? How is that good?
I don't ask to bring me to CP cap, no. But I need to have MORE CP than those who got less XP.. And the difference should be proportional to the difference in XP, including XP that I got when I was vr14 and when they announced the system. That's only fair and acceptable.