Why are people upset about the 30 cp thing?

Blud

I have a VR14 and a VR2. I don't care about the 30 cp.

I think I understand why ZOS is doing it this way, because they don't want people who farmed xp in Craglorn anomalies, etc. before they were nerfed to have a huge advantage over others. I think that's good for ESO.

Skill and knowing how to play your class should give an advantage more than some accrued cp.

Why so much rage over the 30 cp points?

Can someone explain in a reasonable manner why it's such a big deal?

Amsel_McKay

Everyone's epeen will be the same size... its not the "American" way

xaraan

People that farm won't be as effected. Grinders can still grind and still have all their quests to do.

Someone like me that mainly quests has hardly any content to use to level up.

freespirit

Blud wrote: »

I have a VR14 and a VR2. I don't care about the 30 cp.

I think I understand why ZOS is doing it this way, because they don't want people who farmed xp in Craglorn anomalies, etc. before they were nerfed to have a huge advantage over others. I think that's good for ESO.

Skill and knowing how to play your class should give an advantage more than some accrued cp.

Why so much rage over the 30 cp points?

Can someone explain in a reasonable manner why it's such a big deal?

Well said, I too cannot understand the rage....

and yes I do have multiple VR characters.

freespirit

xaraan wrote: »

People that farm won't be as effected. Grinders can still grind and still have all their quests to do.

Someone like me that mainly quests has hardly any content to use to level up.

Ok fair point, I still have many quests left to do on some characters less on others, however my VR14 does have all of Craglorn and Cyrodiil to do, so in that respect I may be less affected than others........

But I don't farm I only quest and do dungeons with my guild mates.

Pallmor

Well, speaking for myself, I can only say this:

I just unsubbed. I did it because I have a VR2 toon who has already wasted 1.5 zones of quests in Cadwell's Silver. And until the Champion System is fully implemented, I can't do anymore PvE quests except dailies (since I won't be getting CP for it). And since PvE is my thing, I have nothing to do anymore except farm and grind (which bore me to tears). Thus I have no reason to spend $15/month.

I'm not so much angry as sad. I do really enjoy playing this game. But until this Champion System thing fully shakes out, I'm taking a break. When I come back, I may have the same armor, weapons and stats as a fresh VR1, but at least I won't waste any more of my time or remaining quests between now and then.

Aett_Thorn

People are upset because ZOS made explicit promises that they were tracking XP and that this would be accounted for when the Champion System came about. Basically, that all of the playtime that people were logging would have some impact on where they stood once the new system came out. Now, however, that is not the case, and it comes with its own set of problems for many people.

Gyudan

Pallmor wrote: »

Well, speaking for myself, I can only say this:

I just unsubbed. I did it because I have a VR2 toon who has already wasted 1.5 zones of quests in Cadwell's Silver. And until the Champion System is fully implemented, I can't do anymore PvE quests except dailies (since I won't be getting CP for it). And since PvE is my thing, I have nothing to do anymore except farm and grind (which bore me to tears). Thus I have no reason to spend $15/month.

I'm not so much angry as sad. I do really enjoy playing this game. But until this Champion System thing fully shakes out, I'm taking a break. When I come back, I may have the same armor, weapons and stats as a fresh VR1, but at least I won't waste any more of my time or remaining quests between now and then.

@ZOS_GinaBruno: see? It's not just the VR14s that are affected by this.

Bouvin

Blud wrote: »

I have a VR14 and a VR2. I don't care about the 30 cp.

I think I understand why ZOS is doing it this way, because they don't want people who farmed xp in Craglorn anomalies, etc. before they were nerfed to have a huge advantage over others. I think that's good for ESO.

Skill and knowing how to play your class should give an advantage more than some accrued cp.

Why so much rage over the 30 cp points?

Can someone explain in a reasonable manner why it's such a big deal?

Because some of us did Caldwell's Silver & Gold instead of just killing Spellfiends in Craglorn. So we don't have any additional content to gain CP.

Samadhi

Pallmor wrote: »

Well, speaking for myself, I can only say this:

I just unsubbed. I did it because I have a VR2 toon who has already wasted 1.5 zones of quests in Cadwell's Silver. And until the Champion System is fully implemented, I can't do anymore PvE quests except dailies (since I won't be getting CP for it). And since PvE is my thing, I have nothing to do anymore except farm and grind (which bore me to tears). Thus I have no reason to spend $15/month.
...

So, before the Champion System was announced in this manner, what were your original plans for your character after you hit level cap and ran out of quests?
Were you just going to roll up an alt afterwards, or give in and farm and grind at that point?

As someone who hates Craglorn and who has already completed all the Cadwell's Gold and Silver zones; gotten all the skyshards in game; completed all the delves; and, maxed out almost every skill morph in game, can state that there isn't anything left to do afterward for a solo player in the existing game except farm and grind anyway.
Those of us who enjoy PvP have an option afterward, but you have expressly stated that PvE is your thing and the PvE here really does run out.

Suspect my main will get some Champion Points out of leveling the Justice System skills, but that is about it.

Still have zero objections to receiving the same amount of Champion Points as a v1 with one month of playtime under his or her belt.


Suppose a lot of my concerns are mitigated by the knowledge that even if my only recourse of action after maxing out the Justice System is to play an alt, that alt will constantly be adding Champion Points to my main and will still have access to all the content my main has already completed. Account-wide Champion Point earning makes a pretty significant difference. My main, and all of my other Veteran characters, do not even have to actually have any content left in order to keep progressing anyway.

freespirit

Bouvin wrote: »

Blud wrote: »

I have a VR14 and a VR2. I don't care about the 30 cp.

I think I understand why ZOS is doing it this way, because they don't want people who farmed xp in Craglorn anomalies, etc. before they were nerfed to have a huge advantage over others. I think that's good for ESO.

Skill and knowing how to play your class should give an advantage more than some accrued cp.

Why so much rage over the 30 cp points?

Can someone explain in a reasonable manner why it's such a big deal?

Because some of us did Caldwell's Silver & Gold instead of just killing Spellfiends in Craglorn. So we don't have any additional content to gain CP.

This is a genuine question.....

Do the quests in Craglorn and PVE quests in Cyrodiil not count towards CP points?.........

Also the nature of MMO's is to change and evolve over time, certainly for me my VR14, my first character is basically just my crafter now and my other characters are the ones I am actively working on......

But I suppose the people that got all 8 of their characters to cap already may have more issues with the Champion system.....

Personally, I refuse to stress about 'possible' changes preferring to deal with them when and if they happen.....

This is meant to be an a game and therefore enjoyable after all

Pallmor

Samadhi wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Well, speaking for myself, I can only say this:

I just unsubbed. I did it because I have a VR2 toon who has already wasted 1.5 zones of quests in Cadwell's Silver. And until the Champion System is fully implemented, I can't do anymore PvE quests except dailies (since I won't be getting CP for it). And since PvE is my thing, I have nothing to do anymore except farm and grind (which bore me to tears). Thus I have no reason to spend $15/month.
...

So, before the Champion System was announced in this manner, what were your original plans for your character after you hit level cap and ran out of quests?
Were you just going to roll up an alt afterwards, or give in and farm and grind at that point?

As someone who hates Craglorn and who has already completed all the Cadwell's Gold and Silver zones; gotten all the skyshards in game; completed all the delves; and, maxed out almost every skill morph in game, can state that there isn't anything left to do afterward for a solo player in the existing game except farm and grind anyway.
Those of us who enjoy PvP have an option afterward, but you have expressly stated that PvE is your thing and the PvE here really does run out.

Suspect my main will get some Champion Points out of leveling the Justice System skills, but that is about it.

Still have zero objections to receiving the same amount of Champion Points as a v1 with one month of playtime under his or her belt.


Suppose a lot of my concerns are mitigated by the knowledge that even if my only recourse of action after maxing out the Justice System is to play an alt, that alt will constantly be adding Champion Points to my main and will still have access to all the content my main has already completed. Account-wide Champion Point earning makes a pretty significant difference. My main, and all of my other Veteran characters, do not even have to actually have any content left in order to keep progressing anyway.

Actually, as slow as I play, I was expecting for there to be more PvE content by the time that became an issue. I've been playing since early May and I'm only about halfway through VR2. So I'm pretty content with taking my time and smelling all the roses.

But the problem now is that every quest turned in feels like I'm going backward instead of forward. I can hit VR3, VR4, etc. but there is still the looming specter of the Champion System on the horizon. And, let's face it, it's looking more and more like a defacto reset with every patch. So every quest I turn in now is a quest that I'll never be getting any CP for. And I'm not even sure if I should be bothering to even craft new armor when I hit a new VR level, since that could all end up reset down to VR1 too, when they finally yank the Vet system entirely in 1.7 or 1.8.

I should be playing the game right now. Instead I'm posting here. It feels like a more productive use of my time.

Samadhi

Pallmor wrote: »

... So every quest I turn in now is a quest that I'll never be getting any CP for. And I'm not even sure if I should be bothering to even craft new armor when I hit a new VR level, since that could all end up reset down to VR1 too, when they finally yank the Vet system entirely in 1.7 or 1.8.

I should be playing the game right now. Instead I'm posting here. It feels like a more productive use of my time.

Ah. Thank you for clarifying.
Think that bolded/italicized explains the issue most clearly to me.

Personally play just for the enjoyment of the game, so concerns over 'lost' Champion Points have no bearing on me. Hold no vested interest in trying to outperform other players in terms of generating additional stats; as such, my only interest is whether the game can continue hold my attention and the transition to Champion Points makes no difference to that for me. Have already completed the exisiting content and reached my part of the issue long before they made this announcement.

More interested in content than in tweaking stat points (though that is something I can enjoy), and the Champion System is geared towards the latter as opposed to the former.

EQBallzz

Samadhi wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

... So every quest I turn in now is a quest that I'll never be getting any CP for. And I'm not even sure if I should be bothering to even craft new armor when I hit a new VR level, since that could all end up reset down to VR1 too, when they finally yank the Vet system entirely in 1.7 or 1.8.

I should be playing the game right now. Instead I'm posting here. It feels like a more productive use of my time.

Ah. Thank you for clarifying.
Think that bolded/italicized explains the issue most clearly to me.

Personally play just for the enjoyment of the game, so concerns over 'lost' Champion Points have no bearing on me. Hold no vested interest in trying to outperform other players in terms of generating additional stats; as such, my only interest is whether the game can continue hold my attention and the transition to Champion Points makes no difference to that for me. Have already completed the exisiting content and reached my part of the issue long before they made this announcement.

More interested in content than in tweaking stat points (though that is something I can enjoy), and the Champion System is geared towards the latter as opposed to the former.

If you are only interested in the quest experience and lore that is perfectly valid and none of these changes will make much difference to you but let's be real here. Most people play MMOs (and RPGs in general) for the character progression. Advancing skills and gear and levels which allows you to take on harder and harder content (or other players). Progress is usually slow and takes time so having hundreds of hours of playtime reversed for no good reason and no clear way to get it back is why people are so upset.

DeLindsay

Blud wrote: »

Why are people upset about the 30 CP thing?

This is easy to answer. People want something to complain about, this just happens to be the FOTM problem. There's also (in no particular order)

• Inventory space
• Lack of Global AH
• Sorc love (or lack thereof)
• Templar love (or lack thereof)
• Nerf DK's!!
• Fix NB's!!
• Fix Cyro Lag!!
• Nerf Block casting
• Nerf grinding (less of this lately)
• Fix the game bugs (less of this lately)

I think that about covers the major threads that pop up every 30 minutes on this Forum. The C3P0 debacle of 2014 has just been the hot button since Friday.

Samadhi

EQBallzz wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

... So every quest I turn in now is a quest that I'll never be getting any CP for. And I'm not even sure if I should be bothering to even craft new armor when I hit a new VR level, since that could all end up reset down to VR1 too, when they finally yank the Vet system entirely in 1.7 or 1.8.

I should be playing the game right now. Instead I'm posting here. It feels like a more productive use of my time.

Ah. Thank you for clarifying.
Think that bolded/italicized explains the issue most clearly to me.

Personally play just for the enjoyment of the game, so concerns over 'lost' Champion Points have no bearing on me. Hold no vested interest in trying to outperform other players in terms of generating additional stats; as such, my only interest is whether the game can continue hold my attention and the transition to Champion Points makes no difference to that for me. Have already completed the exisiting content and reached my part of the issue long before they made this announcement.

More interested in content than in tweaking stat points (though that is something I can enjoy), and the Champion System is geared towards the latter as opposed to the former.

If you are only interested in the quest experience and lore that is perfectly valid and none of these changes will make much difference to you but let's be real here. Most people play MMOs (and RPGs in general) for the character progression. Advancing skills and gear and levels which allows you to take on harder and harder content (or other players). Progress is usually slow and takes time so having hundreds of hours of playtime reversed for no good reason and no clear way to get it back is why people are so upset.

My main interest is PvP, but in PvE all I care about is content being interesting enough to get me high enough level to PvP.
If everyone in PvP starts with 30 Champion Points, my content will be at the same difficulty as any of them; it will be an equal playing field out the gate instead of me having even more power over players who are on less.

My only concern is whether or not PvP will actually level Champion Points at a rate comparable to PvE.

My main character alone is nearing 2000 hours of playtime, plus the playtime of all my alts on top of that.
Personally do not feel like anything is being reversed for me.
If anything, would feel more cheated by receiving more Champion Points because it would simply mean that the progression aspect of the Champion system (for what little it interests me as new content) would be compromised by having it already 'completed' as soon as it launched.

Will make no objections if ZOS decides to change their mind and give me hundreds more Champion Points than 90% of the playerbase; however, also have no objections to receiving only 30 at the advent of a completely new system.

Sharee

DeLindsay wrote: »

Blud wrote: »

Why are people upset about the 30 CP thing?

This is easy to answer. People want something to complain about, this just happens to be the FOTM problem. There's also (in no particular order)

• Inventory space
• Lack of Global AH
• Sorc love (or lack thereof)
• Templar love (or lack thereof)
• Nerf DK's!!
• Fix NB's!!
• Fix Cyro Lag!!
• Nerf Block casting
• Nerf grinding (less of this lately)
• Fix the game bugs (less of this lately)

I think that about covers the major threads that pop up every 30 minutes on this Forum. The C3P0 debacle of 2014 has just been the hot button since Friday.

Don't forget 'why is the game subscription-based?!'

... but then, that was before the release so i'm not sure it counts

PBpsy

If they thought that giving a small but substantial bonus to the long time and active players would heavily imbalance the game it already means that the system is heavily unbalanced by its nature. If 1cp per VR level you had on all characters was to much (max 112) and imbalanced the system too much at the start it already means that the imbalance in the system will be visible in a couple of days after the launch. We will find a way to get CP fast and we will use it and that is indeed guaranteed.

Yam_of_the_Center

I am so full of don't care I ate three pancakes.

Lionxoft

In my opinion, it's because they want to keep it a controlled environment on launch. If players are earning champion points faster than expected then they will want to cut down the accrual rate however if they award a player that has 8 vr14's more points than one person with one vr1 and they cut down that rate it will leave an enormous discrepancy.

This is a preemptive measure for the good of the game. I like it.

WraithAzraiel

Get a job for $1 an hour. Work 40 hours a week. Come payday, realize you're only getting paid as much as the part-time workers (half of 40 for those of you who can't math) because corporate wants to be "fair".

Now I know someone's going to be all "hur hur this is a game, not work hur hur" but seriously, don't nitpick the analogy just because you don't agree with it.

Fact of the matter is, you invested time with the assumption and understanding you would get something that made the expenditure of that time worthwhile. Now you're getting something because it's equal to the lowest common denominator.

That is Vonnegut-level communism. Read Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut, you'll understand my meaning.

Hope this answers your question as to why some people are so miffed about the blanket 30 champion points for EVER'BODY!

LegacyDM

Because I actually played the game as it was meant to be played and didn't exploit Craglorn bosses, along with the masses, and lvl from vr 1 - 12 in a matter of hours. It's total *** that those people that exploited the bosses now get to go back and complete cadwells for all the extra xp, leaving us suckers who completed cadwells, once again in the dust, with an insanely large head start and unfair advantage.

And it clearly was the exploitation of an unintended game mechanic because no one was meant to lvl vr 1-12 in hours. Therefore, this is ZOS way of correcting their f-up for allowing players to continue abusing this.

WraithAzraiel

DeLindsay wrote: »

Blud wrote: »

Why are people upset about the 30 CP thing?

This is easy to answer. People want something to complain about, this just happens to be the FOTM problem. There's also (in no particular order)

• Inventory space
• Lack of Global AH
• Sorc love (or lack thereof)
• Templar love (or lack thereof)
• Nerf DK's!!
• Fix NB's!!
• Fix Cyro Lag!!
• Nerf Block casting
• Nerf grinding (less of this lately)
• Fix the game bugs (less of this lately)

I think that about covers the major threads that pop up every 30 minutes on this Forum. The C3P0 debacle of 2014 has just been the hot button since Friday.

There will never be a global AH. The core friggin foundation of the guild system prevents it. The existence of guild traders prevents it. GET THE HELL OVER IT.

God forbid you actually have to do a little virtual leg work to find the best price.

But other than that, EXCELLENT post!

EQBallzz

Lionxoft wrote: »

In my opinion, it's because they want to keep it a controlled environment on launch. If players are earning champion points faster than expected then they will want to cut down the accrual rate however if they award a player that has 8 vr14's more points than one person with one vr1 and they cut down that rate it will leave an enormous discrepancy.

This is a preemptive measure for the good of the game. I like it.

That makes no sense. The discrepancy is whatever they say it is. From what they are doing they are making a discrepancy of 30 CP between someone who starts with a V1 and someone who is 49 at the start.

Wouldn't there be a much smaller discrepancy if they just awarded points based on completed vet levels? 5 CP per vet level would keep the discrepancy between players varied depending on your progress in the game. A level 49 player would only be 5 CP behind a V1 player. A V1 player would only be 20 CP behind a V5 player and so on.

Yes, there will be a bigger discrepancy between a V14 and a V1 but that will happen anyway within months if not weeks after starting the system. However, that V1 still has all the silver/gold content to catch up so nothing is lost.

Blud

nevermind

Forestd16b14_ESO

The no life gankers are butt hurt that every one is being treated the same and the game doesn't revolve around them any more

Palindrome

So im confused.
it seems people complain "this not fair. Other people still have quests to do because thwy grind"
if you are all out of quests (not possible multiple dungeon daily s, crag daily, cyro daily) do you not still have the option to grind on mobs, farm dungeons, go and pvp?

Not to mention whatever new over solo and group content is released with 1.6

I really dont see the problem

EQBallzz

Palindrome wrote: »

So im confused.
it seems people complain "this not fair. Other people still have quests to do because thwy grind"
if you are all out of quests (not possible multiple dungeon daily s, crag daily, cyro daily) do you not still have the option to grind on mobs, farm dungeons, go and pvp?

Not to mention whatever new over solo and group content is released with 1.6

I really dont see the problem

The largest pool of quest XP resides in the main story quest from cadwell's silver/gold. It's a huge amount of XP. The XP you get from dailies or dungeons is puny in comparison and limited because they are daily quests. Some people don't like to grind or PvP. Some of us have completed all of silver/gold already (multiple times) and now get no credit from it while others who have yet to complete it will get the benefit of all that XP towards the Champ system. That's the problem.

ers101284b14_ESO

EQBallzz wrote: »

Palindrome wrote: »

So im confused.
it seems people complain "this not fair. Other people still have quests to do because thwy grind"
if you are all out of quests (not possible multiple dungeon daily s, crag daily, cyro daily) do you not still have the option to grind on mobs, farm dungeons, go and pvp?

Not to mention whatever new over solo and group content is released with 1.6

I really dont see the problem

The largest pool of quest XP resides in the main story quest from cadwell's silver/gold. It's a huge amount of XP. The XP you get from dailies or dungeons is puny in comparison and limited because they are daily quests. Some people don't like to grind or PvP. Some of us have completed all of silver/gold already (multiple times) and now get no credit from it while others who have yet to complete it will get the benefit of all that XP towards the Champ system. That's the problem.

I was watching the live stream again and Maria made it sound like the higher vet rank players will in fact be able to earn CP faster. Apparently the higher the vet rank the more XP will be earned. So silver and gold will no longer be giving as much XP to go towards CP.

Leeric

EQBallzz wrote: »

Palindrome wrote: »

So im confused.
it seems people complain "this not fair. Other people still have quests to do because thwy grind"
if you are all out of quests (not possible multiple dungeon daily s, crag daily, cyro daily) do you not still have the option to grind on mobs, farm dungeons, go and pvp?

Not to mention whatever new over solo and group content is released with 1.6

I really dont see the problem

The largest pool of quest XP resides in the main story quest from cadwell's silver/gold. It's a huge amount of XP. The XP you get from dailies or dungeons is puny in comparison and limited because they are daily quests. Some people don't like to grind or PvP. Some of us have completed all of silver/gold already (multiple times) and now get no credit from it while others who have yet to complete it will get the benefit of all that XP towards the Champ system. That's the problem.

Very well said. It is definitely a problem. Prioritizing new players, repeatedly over the one who've paid since launch usually isn't the best way to ensure success of an MMO. I hope their is a cap, but it should be reasonable.

If ZOS has been tracking this xp, they could simply use a formula to make less significance of the grinding spots that existed, by diminishing the returns of just that specific XP. If ZOS wasn't smart enough to implement that in the beginning and they have no idea what xp came from where....well then....its their own fault and they shouldn't make players, (the ones who are paying their bills) suffer for it. Im not sure how much xp is needed for 30 champion points, but I wouldn't be thrilled if I got less points for doing something even though I've been playing longer, seems backwards.

Wolfshead

@Samadhi‌
It is not ZoS fault that people rush to VR14 for at the end of day it is person that play game that is where fault is laying not at ZoS basically ZoS gave us game and it is up to us how we use it.

Cap is mostlike that most of people have say early it is way stop those how have grinder from day 1 to get max point from start for if honest look at from moment what do you think would happy if play A that have grinder from month get max point of CP???

He would mostlike just put out those point and then he would mostlike just stop play game and then the champion system have lost all it intention i sure would not care of keep playing game if i could max out champion system on day 1 of it is release think about it.

No company want to lose there custom on first week after a the release something new take blizzard why do you think the did not release any raid content the 1st month of WoD really simple if the would have done all those people that hit lvl 100 the 2 first week would have stop play WoD expansion right about now same go for ZoS if the would alow use get max CP from start those how have been VR 14 for month would stop play game for the CP is account bound which mean all there alt would have same point so what is point of play the game then???