Welcome to TESO have a nice an beautifull day 8)

xMovingTarget · December 2014

EQBallzz wrote: »

For all those who keep saying there will be a conversion or compensation in phase 4 or some other such fantasy...read this from the German forum (credit to @xMovingTarget for finding this):

source: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/143786/erklaerungen-zum-championsystem#latest

Their plans seem fairly clear now. I guess I was right to cancel my subscription. Hopefully, they change course before this goes live. Here is the German convo run through a translator (sorry if it's not a perfect translation..I don't speak German):

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is in contrast to earlier statements made that there will be more points champion and that this number would be based to a certain upper limit on the account far earned experience. The plan has changed in the meantime and we apologize for the confusion.

Leijona wrote: »
And we can probably assume that there are no plans to credit the account wide experience earned at a later date on the points champion , correct?

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is not planned. As initially written , says that has occurred in the design process reducing the maximum possible points champion and increasing their importance to the originally planned generous distribution of start- Champion points for existing players .
But we want to make sure that players who have already completed most of the content , are not disadvantaged in earnings of other points champion.

I quote you so Nobody over reads this

No compensation boys and girls. Never Ever! All the XP down the drain! All our time and effort invested in our chars doesnt mean anything to Zenimax.

It the people that like to pick flowers they want in this game. Not us supporting em for 8 month nonstop by paying our sub fees, advertise their game on Youtube, Advertise it on twitch etc. No, we dont matter.

Its all about the Players who like to look at the sunset, pick nice flowers! Who cares about anything else. How dare we even to try to play this like a proper MMO. How can we even just remotely think to progress a character is the way to go in a MMO game. So naive we are to believe what they tell us.

I think we are mentally challenged. Playing to endgame, doing all the quests, finishing all the achievements. Why are we so useless guys. We should have have picked nice yellow flowers instead..

Disclaimer : sarcasm go!

Ysne58 · December 2014

The people who have been here all along and don't have a vet level also make a good point. They get nothing. I don't know whether that is fair or not. But it is an interesting point.

BBSooner · December 2014

xMovingTarget wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

For all those who keep saying there will be a conversion or compensation in phase 4 or some other such fantasy...read this from the German forum (credit to @xMovingTarget for finding this):

source: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/143786/erklaerungen-zum-championsystem#latest

Their plans seem fairly clear now. I guess I was right to cancel my subscription. Hopefully, they change course before this goes live. Here is the German convo run through a translator (sorry if it's not a perfect translation..I don't speak German):

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is in contrast to earlier statements made that there will be more points champion and that this number would be based to a certain upper limit on the account far earned experience. The plan has changed in the meantime and we apologize for the confusion.

Leijona wrote: »
And we can probably assume that there are no plans to credit the account wide experience earned at a later date on the points champion , correct?

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is not planned. As initially written , says that has occurred in the design process reducing the maximum possible points champion and increasing their importance to the originally planned generous distribution of start- Champion points for existing players .
But we want to make sure that players who have already completed most of the content , are not disadvantaged in earnings of other points champion.

I quote you so Nobody over reads this No compensation boys and girls. Never Ever! All the XP down the drain! All our time and effort invested in our chars doesnt mean anything to Zenimax.

It the people that like to pick flowers they want in this game. Not us supporting em for 8 month nonstop by paying our sub fees, advertise their game on Youtube, Advertise it on twitch etc. No, we dont matter.

Its all about the Players who like to look at the sunset, pick nice flowers! Who cares about anything else. How dare we even to try to play this like a proper MMO. How can we even just remotely think to progress a character is the way to go in a MMO game. So naive we are to believe what they tell us.

I think we are mentally challenged. Playing to endgame, doing all the quests, finishing all the achievements. Why are we so useless guys. We should have have picked nice yellow flowers instead..

Disclaimer : sarcasm go!

The sky is definitely falling, watch out for those acorns Mr. Little.

Dazin93 · December 2014

yodased wrote: »

Some people on these forums must have amazing lives. They get so upset about such little things that there really must have no relevant experience to compare to.

This is a video game. Beyond that this is a game specifically designed to be constantly changing.

You knew this signing up.

Putting your self worth on how many champion points you have in ESO is not healthy nor rational

Strong with logic this one is not.

Thanks Dr. Phil, yoda, zen master or whatever, but I haven't seen a post yet where a person stated that champion points are tied to their self worth; that is an inference you are making with nothing to support it.

If people didn't care, they wouldn't post, they would simply leave. If the game gets to that point, then it truly will be dead.

I do have an amazing life though and I appreciate you mentioning it. I have the best and expect nothing but the best; if you choose to live your life differently so be it

Etharian · December 2014

Kraen wrote: »

OP, you are of course right. But asking for understanding on forums is like asking for understanding in cage full of apes.

You will probably get messages like "QQ moar" and "drama queen", even tho your arguments are completely valid.

Dont be discouraged by that, I believe you have support of majority of players, because majority of us are actually negatively affected by Champion System changes.

No you guys are a minority... A small percentage of you come onto the forums everyday like trolls.

Glad i hit V1 and get 30 CP, we all even now.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

bedlom · December 2014

Except the people who are VR14 are the ones that have given them the most money and usually politicians tend to listen to the people that finance their campaigns, especially in countries like the US. [/quote]

I ain't even close to getting to end game, and I am willing to bet that I have spent a lot more money on the game and merchandise than you.

yodased · December 2014

Dazin93 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Some people on these forums must have amazing lives. They get so upset about such little things that there really must have no relevant experience to compare to.

This is a video game. Beyond that this is a game specifically designed to be constantly changing.

You knew this signing up.

Putting your self worth on how many champion points you have in ESO is not healthy nor rational

Strong with logic this one is not.

Thanks Dr. Phil, yoda, zen master or whatever, but I haven't seen a post yet where a person stated that champion points are tied to their self worth; that is an inference you are making with nothing to support it.

If people didn't care, they wouldn't post, they would simply leave. If the game gets to that point, then it truly will be dead.

I do have an amazing life though and I appreciate you mentioning it. I have the best and expect nothing but the best; if you choose to live your life differently so be it

Everyone crying and threatening to quit or saying that their "hard work" put into a video game needs "compensation".

Its all 1s and 0s in a virtual world that doesn't matter.

Why do you take this so serious?

Ohioastro · December 2014

Kraen wrote: »

Ohioastro wrote: »

My VR11 character has a massive pile of skill points and has skilled almost everything up. This represents a real advantage over a VR1 character, and it isn't removed in any way, shape, or form by a game transition.

Say what? You can actually level up every skill in one hour of Rkundzelft grind. To be competitive in the best ranks of endgame PvE, you need around 50 - 80 Skill Points only.

If you think that skill points and leveled skills means advantage, you dont know the game. At all.

If you think that having the ability to use multiple weapon lines, guild lines, multiple armor lines, and multiple ultimate skills yields no advantage...

Well, I don't know what to say. Except that you're either too angry to think clearly or someone who doesn't write clearly.

Kraen · December 2014

Ohioastro wrote: »

If you think that having the ability to use multiple weapon lines, guild lines, multiple armor lines, and multiple ultimate skills yields no advantage...

Well, I don't know what to say. Except that you're either too angry to think clearly or someone who doesn't write clearly.

Using multiple weapon lines, guild lines, and multiple armors is of course useless in terms of power. This game is simple math. You have few strong skills, and armors that match with those few strong skills. You dont need anything else.

In terms of power, you need 8 - 12 skills, depending on your class, to have the best possible results in PvE. You also need one type of armor. Thats all.

Not a single thing you mentioned doesnt give you any real advantage, unless you think its an advantage to have many - but totally useless - options.

Ohioastro · December 2014

That's flatly ignorant. If I've leveled up abilities that are useful in a specific situation then I have tools available that someone else does not. If I have leveled up healing skills I can join a group that needs a healer.

There is more to the game than a narrow definiton of damage per second.

Dazin93 · December 2014

yodased wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Some people on these forums must have amazing lives. They get so upset about such little things that there really must have no relevant experience to compare to.

This is a video game. Beyond that this is a game specifically designed to be constantly changing.

You knew this signing up.

Putting your self worth on how many champion points you have in ESO is not healthy nor rational

Strong with logic this one is not.

Thanks Dr. Phil, yoda, zen master or whatever, but I haven't seen a post yet where a person stated that champion points are tied to their self worth; that is an inference you are making with nothing to support it.

If people didn't care, they wouldn't post, they would simply leave. If the game gets to that point, then it truly will be dead.

I do have an amazing life though and I appreciate you mentioning it. I have the best and expect nothing but the best; if you choose to live your life differently so be it

Everyone crying and threatening to quit or saying that their "hard work" put into a video game needs "compensation".

Its all 1s and 0s in a virtual world that doesn't matter.

Why do you take this so serious?

Sadly, I probably don't take the game as serious as you, as I have never put time into developing an addon. I do expect a person or company to stand by their word however, and I do think that integrity is a serious thing indeed.

morvegil · December 2014

The problem is that with MMOs, you have
1. Power Gamers.
2. Everyone else.

Make it to easy, the power gamers ***, make it to hard...tons of people leave.

yodased · December 2014

Not sure why that is sad to you.

My developing addons/websites has nothing to do with the 'seriousness' I take with the game.

I wasn't specifically singling you out by the way, I was using the ubiquitous 'you'.

In this context I mean the weight to which one puts the amount of champion points their character gets or the amount of skill points they have or the gear they wear.

This is what I mean by self-worth. If you feel you deserve something more than anyone else within this particular situation you are placing your self-worth into it lol.

That's not an inference, its the way it is.

Evandus · December 2014

Too many threads on this subject to accurately follow. For those complaining because people are complaining that should mean something...

I have an overall negative impression of the handling of the champion point system in what I've read so far. To be fair to those of differing opinion, here is why:

What I don't get here is why a system would be put into place that actually favors grinding above all else. If you institute a flat rate of points to all characters, who benefits the most from this? The answer is the grinders. Because they have nearly every quest in the game to go back and do. Like my Nightblade for example. After reading this news initially, I ignored all quests and just killed mobs. He went from level 16 to 41 in a few hours. When I have time tonight, I'll move him to V1 using the same method. Then he has everything from Stormhaven on up, including the main story quests available for additional xp.

Yet my main, who has done every PVE quest in this game has no options (not a pvp'er and rarely gets into trials due to being a DK tank) except undaunted dailies. That's ridiculous...

And it seems to me that as soon as the server goes live with 1.6, the whole 30CP for everyone goes out the window in mere hours. People who grind characters will find places in the game to do it. And they'll share that information with others who are interested. In a matter of a few days there will be folks with an abundance of time to play this game maxed out on CP. More casual folks like myself will feel the hurt of non awarded xp much more. Just as in the introduction of the Undaunted Dailies. My characters that were maxxed in the line and had lots of xp to spare got shafted. And are still doing dailies trying catch up with others who got maxxed in a day or two having never run the content previously.

This implementation takes time away from the concept of actually running content you want to. And it forces some of us who don't care for Cadwell's to run that content even though we don't enjoy it. Also, I believe the immersionists are in for a major hit as well. There will likely be many groups of V14's mowing through content like locusts trying to make up for xp that was promised to be tracked, but ultimately rescinded. In a way it encourages people to not run content actually. Because if you don't, then you have the option of being able to max skill lines quickly in a matter of hours really when it's fixed.

/dismay #omgwtgbbq!

pppontus · December 2014

I don't think anyone cares about their self-worth as much as they care about competetive PVE in this case. My 4 VR14s now start out with 30CP, your VR1 now start out with 30CP. Next month, I will have run Sanctum Ophidia maybe 10-12 times (about 1,5 hours each time), you will have quested the same amount of time. Who do you think will have x amount of CP?

You will have 60CP now, and I will have maaaaybeeee 31. If I'm lucky.

You can bash that all you want but I will bet you.. eh .. my VR14 Ring of the Healer that this is 100% what is going to happen.

So they are basically saying to all raiders, we don't give a *** about the time you spent towards becoming competetive. Go out and grind for at least half a year more .. or get out.

^How many youtube videos, streamers, i.e. FREE MARKETERS do you think ESO will have after this?

Rethink.

Shunravi · December 2014

Evandus wrote: »

Yet my main, who has done every PVE quest in this game has no options (not a pvp'er and rarely gets into trials due to being a DK tank)

... WUT.....

yodased · December 2014

You don't know that though. You are assuming that.

It's possible that finishing SO now gives you 100k xp because they said that a champion point is about an HOUR OF GAMEPLAY.

There are SO MANY variables that NOONE on these forums knows its absolutely ridiculous the amount of emotion being put forward already on something that doesn't even exist yet.

Evandus · December 2014

Shunravi wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

Yet my main, who has done every PVE quest in this game has no options (not a pvp'er and rarely gets into trials due to being a DK tank)

... WUT.....

This isn't unusual considering that most groups only want 1 tank in a group of 12. In a guild setting, heck even in pugs, that leaves many people competing for one spot in a group. Which, in some groups I've seen, isn't even a necessary slot to fill.

Tyr · December 2014

Apokh wrote: »

Can you ppl (especially the OP) please link the source for Statement that
the progression from VR1-14 is completely lost and will not be converted to CP?

What I read is, that if you have AT LEAST one VR Char you get INITIAL 30CP. Where is the statement, that you won´t EVER get your progress converted? Need this info pls.

Thanks in advance...

KaiShroeber responded today stating this.
Here is the link:http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1438505#Comment_1438505

Tyr · December 2014

xaraan wrote: »

Apokh wrote: »

Can you ppl (especially the OP) please link the source for Statement that
the progression from VR1-14 is completely lost and will not be converted to CP?

What I read is, that if you have AT LEAST one VR Char you get INITIAL 30CP. Where is the statement, that you won´t EVER get your progress converted? Need this info pls.

Thanks in advance...

Actually, this is the main question we want answered. Everyone arguing against us keeps saying this, but not ZoS. In fact, they have seen us ask this hundreds of times and even Gina did a big huge post yesterday about CP and guess what - not one hint of actually answering this. Not even a vague comment about something being done and details not being final yet so no info yet. I think that's the bigger problem at this point - the lack of a response.

KAi said there are no plans to get progress converted:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1438505#Comment_1438505

pppontus · December 2014

yodased wrote: »

You don't know that though. You are assuming that.

It's possible that finishing SO now gives you 100k xp because they said that a champion point is about an HOUR OF GAMEPLAY.

There are SO MANY variables that NOONE on these forums knows its absolutely ridiculous the amount of emotion being put forward already on something that doesn't even exist yet.

Well, I have talked about this a million times. XP from Trials can by design never be balanced unless they go for XP per time spent (which I would even be fine with, I don't care about having the most of anything.. I only want to stay competetive) because of the simple reason that they are hard. Some people finish SO in 40 minutes, we take 1,5 hours.. and others will not complete it in months to come. So either the first group gets gazillions of XP, or the last group don't get any XP whatsoever.. you understand my point?

ZOS says "you can continue to do what you like and you will gain XP", they are lying.. just like they lied about tracking XP. It should be apparent to everyone by now, they lie.

Shunravi · December 2014

Evandus wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

Yet my main, who has done every PVE quest in this game has no options (not a pvp'er and rarely gets into trials due to being a DK tank)

... WUT.....

This isn't unusual considering that most groups only want 1 tank in a group of 12. In a guild setting, heck even in pugs, that leaves many people competing for one spot in a group. Which, in some groups I've seen, isn't even a necessary slot to fill.

Yea, I know, but it seemed like you were saying it was because of being a DK tank, not a tank in general.

yodased · December 2014

lied about tracking xp?

http://oghmainfinium.com/test/?account=yodased

thats not a lie.

AND, yes I completely get your point. When this system comes out and its as everyone worries and they feel that they were lied to and what have you, I will support you 100% in your anger/outrage.

I have just been amazed by the hating of something that doesn't even exist yet.

Tyr · December 2014

AlnilamE wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

So, even though other players have already earned millions of xp completing content they cannot redo for more points, they should be on 'even ground' to someone that has not?

What if there was no Champion System? You have 4 VR14, who I assume have all finished Gold/Silver and everything else there is to do in the game. Now what?

BUT, I would be perfectly happy to all start the same if ZoS gives me an extra character slot for each v14 I already have. Then at least I'll be starting at the same point as other players and we'll all have the same amount of characters with silver/gold quests to do still.

Interesting point. I wonder how many CP an alt can earn from doing the Gold/Silver quests (and supposedly Coldharbour and Cyrodiil, since my V1 is still finishing the Rift quests). Because if it takes getting two characters through Gold/Silver to get the max CP for your account (as an example), then it would be an issue only for people who have 6 V14 who have done all of Gold/Silver.

I wonder how many people are in that situation?

I remember originally they said it would take about an hour to earn a CP. I don't know if that is still true considering there is only 1/4 of the CP they originally set out to make. I'm trying to estimate how long it takes me to finish a zone, but it's hard because I usually get side-tracked by stuff that doesn't give XP.

It's now an hour of enlightened time, so 4x longer if you're unenlightened.
So 30 CP is the equivalent of 120 hours of the previous target.

So if you've played more than 120 hours, they are wiping all that experience effectively.

They have also stated in the past that people are spending ~20 hours per VR rank so you'll probably be able to get 30 CP by the time you hit vr7.

The laughable stupidity comes in when you realize that the average VR14 char would have gotten maybe the equivalent of 100CP in the new scale so the idea of an outrageous seperation of player is just BS.

They could have taken the top 1% of players XP and done a 10 to 1 scale and made the CP cap ~300 out the the max 3600 and had zero problems with balance.

Kraen · December 2014

Ohioastro wrote: »

That's flatly ignorant. If I've leveled up abilities that are useful in a specific situation then I have tools available that someone else does not. If I have leveled up healing skills I can join a group that needs a healer.

There is more to the game than a narrow definiton of damage per second.

That is - sadly - not ignorant, sir, but complete truth. I am raiding endgame content with not so bad results, and I am sorry to break it to you, but your understanding to the "power" of a character is completely wrong.

If having toons of situational skills or ability to do some limited healing means power for you, then you really do not understand what kind of power are we talking here about.

Dazin93 · December 2014

ZOS_KaiChober also stated the following in response to angry customer comments regarding zero plans to compensate players with CS points for any experience gained after VR1:

(Disclaimer: this entailed use of an online translator and may have small errors)

While we understand and sympathize with the displeasure expressed here (it makes new and older players the exactly the same in CS points), we did not lie or take you for a ride.

In the development of a game things constantly change. Tests and feedback often point another direction than planned. As long as we give you early insights of the development of existing and new systems of the game - which we plan more of - changes will continue to come. Sometimes such changes are drastic like now. At no time they are however thoughtlessly made.\nCommunication with you is important to us.

An older player is able to collect just as fast points of champion, as someone, which begins just with the Quests in Cadwells silver. We want to guarantee that long-term players do not feel disadvantaged.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/143786/erklaerungen-zum-championsystem/p2

Unless something changes, there will be no champion point compensation for any experience gained after VR1 based on ZoS' current stance.

BBSooner · December 2014

Dazin93 wrote: »

ZOS_KaiChober also stated the following in response to angry customer comments regarding zero plans to compensate players with CS points for any experience gained after VR1:

(Disclaimer: this entailed use of an online translator and may have small errors)

While we understand and sympathize with the displeasure expressed here (it makes new and older players the exactly the same in CS points), we did not lie or take you for a ride.

In the development of a game things constantly change. Tests and feedback often point another direction than planned. As long as we give you early insights of the development of existing and new systems of the game - which we plan more of - changes will continue to come. Sometimes such changes are drastic like now. At no time they are however thoughtlessly made.\nCommunication with you is important to us.

An older player is able to collect just as fast points of champion, as someone, which begins just with the Quests in Cadwells silver. We want to guarantee that long-term players do not feel disadvantaged.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/143786/erklaerungen-zum-championsystem/p2
Unless something changes, there will be no champion point compensation for any experience gained after VR1 based on ZoS' current stance.

Good response and explanation by @ZOS_KaiSchober‌ .

Tandor · December 2014

"Welcome to TESO, the only game that penalises people who play the most."

/yawn

Otherwise expressed as:-

Wot, no QQ poll?

xMovingTarget · December 2014

Tandor wrote: »

"Welcome to TESO, the only game that penalises people who play the most."

/yawn

Otherwise expressed as:-

Wot, no QQ poll?

Still doesnt denies the fact that he is right.

HeX7 · December 2014

While it can be seen as "crying" or "whining" the OP has a valid argument and has simply pointed out that we were told by ZOS to continue progressing our characters and that our experience (even after VR14) was being recorded and would be converted. The fact of the matter is it wasn't and that statement was never true.

Many people chose to keep advancing their VR14 characters based on that statement and had they known that there would be zero compensation for their actions and time beyond VR14 they (as any sane person would) would have held off on completing all of the content.