BBSooner wrote: »

Kraen wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

To me, putting everyone on even ground - aka giving everyone the same amount of points - sounds pretty fair.

To you, its fair to reward someone who worked 500 hours with same amount of "stuff" as someone who worked 50 hours?

I mean, wtf?

By the way, "Deal with it" is of course a good approach in real life, however, not very good if you are dev and trying to keep players entertained by your very product.

The champion system is unreleased content. Nobody has worked towards it yet. A VR1 and a VR14 have worked equal amounts of hours in this system:

0

Oh wait - players were promised that they can start working towards it before it's released and they'd get awarded for it.
So in fact people have worked towards it already.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

The product will be entertaining regardless of whatever amount of champion points they decide to dole out. The people who treat this like a game, rather than a job, are the ones who will stick around and continue having fun. Luckily for those devs, that happens to be the majority, and I'm sure the rest of us would enjoy the Game quite a bit more if we didn't have the egocentric power gamers around always trying to push their own agenda.

I wish you were right. But at this point, I would dare to say that the game needs every player it can get. If you´ĺl exclude - as you call them - egocentric power gamers (aka the players very negatively affected my the Champion System changes). you will lose more than you may think.

Everyone should be rewarded according to amount of XP gained = the promises should be kept, or shouldnt be made at all.

DDuke wrote: »

Some people are just unable to achieve things (not motivated enough/not skilled enough, many reasons) and want everyone brought down to their level.

It is as if someone was an amateur footballer and demanded that everyone gets downgraded to your C league.
How ridiculous does that sound?

Red Herring, there are people with capped characters who are fine with the 30CP. Motivation is an irrelevant issue.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Ok, so a ZOS representative stated "pre champion system xp will be tracked, and you will be rewarded for it".

We're those more or less the reps exact words? Because, for all we know, that statement does not indicate that you would be awarded champion points. It could very well mean that you'll be given one gold piece for every level past v1 that you gained. It could mean that anyone over v1, or anyone at v14, will simply get a unique dye as their "reward".

This is the problem with gamers (and people in general) nowadays - they think they're entitled to the world based on obscure little things they hear, things that could be completely out of context.

False.

Here, have a quote.

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

While the 30 CP cap doesn't bother me, I can sort of understand where the massive amount of rage in the OP is coming from. Even if it is is as small is 1 champion level for each vet level up to a max of 10 additional champion levels, it might satisfy those that are so upset at getting nothing at all.

AlnilamE wrote: »

Oh, so you are going to be turned into a Level 50 when Update 6 hits?

I'm quite sure I'm still going to be V14 (not there yet, but at the rate I'm going it's a given).

I find it kind of funny that everybody is so concerned about the Champion Points that they are not paying any attention to the complete reworking of skills that's also coming.

You are still going to be V14 and you are going to have an easier time getting into a trial group than my V1 will, regardless of the fact that we'll have the same amount of Champion Points on day 1.

Have a quote as well, and please, get the facts together before posting something completely out of context.

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

xaraan wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Kraen wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

To me, putting everyone on even ground - aka giving everyone the same amount of points - sounds pretty fair.

To you, its fair to reward someone who worked 500 hours with same amount of "stuff" as someone who worked 50 hours?

I mean, wtf?

By the way, "Deal with it" is of course a good approach in real life, however, not very good if you are dev and trying to keep players entertained by your very product.

The champion system is unreleased content. Nobody has worked towards it yet. A VR1 and a VR14 have worked equal amounts of hours in this system:

0

uh... not exactly that simple

A vr1 still has all silver/gold content to do, a vr14 that didn't grind does not and therefore less ways to earn future points from questing

Which is a valid concern! Hopefully they decide balance the daily undaunted, crafting writs, pvp kills/quests, dungeon experience, landscape mob experience in this system to compensate for the lack of zone quests.

zaria wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Ugh, the tears. New content didn't reward you for experience gained before it was released. So? When the level cap increases I expect all of you people to be horrified and whining that experience gained at level cap didn't roll over and auto level you.

This, has nobody played WOW or other MMO?
You are not awarded for previous effort then level cap is increased or you get other stuff to build up.
Then the new expansion drops are in the same boat that someone who reached xp cap yesterday even if you reached cap 14 days after the previous expansion was released and has raided since then. And yes the nice raiding gear will be worse than questing gear in 3-4 levels.

Except this isn't an expansion. There is no level cap increase. There is no new content to level with. This is nothing like a WoW expansion unless you think it would be fair for Cataclysm to be released and only some of the people get access to the quests associated with it and others have to grind on mobs to level. Then it's an accurate analogy.

Kraen wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Oh, so you are going to be turned into a Level 50 when Update 6 hits?

I'm quite sure I'm still going to be V14 (not there yet, but at the rate I'm going it's a given).

I find it kind of funny that everybody is so concerned about the Champion Points that they are not paying any attention to the complete reworking of skills that's also coming.

You are still going to be V14 and you are going to have an easier time getting into a trial group than my V1 will, regardless of the fact that we'll have the same amount of Champion Points on day 1.

Have a quote as well, and please, get the facts together before posting something completely out of context.

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

Sorry, but you are the one who is saying someone will be "dragged down to somebody else's level". So yeah, facts.

Nice quote. Red goes very well with the colour scheme of the forums.

You forgot to bold the part where she said "we do not know what that cap is yet."

:-)

Sheesh.

The Titanic is sinking and you people are arguing about poor service by the waiters.

Whether you get your cookie champion points for your earned experience is off target and it has distracted everyone. People are missing the big picture.

As a game system, Champion System is on track to be an improvement over Veteran Ranks, no matter what they do with the CP. It should have been in the game on day one.

As a way to fix the game in preparation for Console launch, Zenimax has all but directly stated that it is missing the target. I will go one step further and say that some may even consider it a marginal failure. I will go one more step and say that they have realized that they are working on entirely the wrong thing.

Champion System is a whale that is blocking everything that needs to be done to actually fix the game. We now know it already delayed the class balance work that we suffered through for months. It has delayed the Justice System. It has delayed Imperial City. We still have to wait while they redo all of the itemization, monsters, and quests. To what end? To have the same core game they have today, just with a Champion System instead of Veteran Ranks. They have spent the last few months running in a big Champion System circle, blocking or impeding progress in other areas of the game.

You have to stop and remind yourself, what should they be doing do to actually move the game forward? What will make your friends start playing the game? I can tell you right now that it has nothing to do with how many CP you get for experience already earned.

They are working on the wrong thing. The forum is complaining about the wrong issue.

I want to add to Kraen's post before all the expected comments show up:

1. Yes, Zos has changed the amount of overall CP in the system. Reducing the overall points to 25% of what it was doesn't necessarily mean that the points we start with should all now be the same. Why not reduce them to 25% of what they first intended? There should be a difference between a v14 and v1 as the v1 has much more content to earn points with.

2. It was also dishonest of them to let that statement hang out there for players. Unless they decided the point change friday morning, which I doubt, they should have told people they changed it as soon as they made the call and let us know they were not tracking xp anymore and we would not see anything for earning further xp at vet level.

xaraan wrote: »

So, even though other players have already earned millions of xp completing content they cannot redo for more points, they should be on 'even ground' to someone that has not?

What if there was no Champion System? You have 4 VR14, who I assume have all finished Gold/Silver and everything else there is to do in the game. Now what?

BUT, I would be perfectly happy to all start the same if ZoS gives me an extra character slot for each v14 I already have. Then at least I'll be starting at the same point as other players and we'll all have the same amount of characters with silver/gold quests to do still.

Interesting point. I wonder how many CP an alt can earn from doing the Gold/Silver quests (and supposedly Coldharbour and Cyrodiil, since my V1 is still finishing the Rift quests). Because if it takes getting two characters through Gold/Silver to get the max CP for your account (as an example), then it would be an issue only for people who have 6 V14 who have done all of Gold/Silver.

I wonder how many people are in that situation?

I remember originally they said it would take about an hour to earn a CP. I don't know if that is still true considering there is only 1/4 of the CP they originally set out to make. I'm trying to estimate how long it takes me to finish a zone, but it's hard because I usually get side-tracked by stuff that doesn't give XP.

BBSooner wrote: »

Matem wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

You could all be starting with zero cp. When they raised the level cap to v14, they didn't automatically award two vet levels to v12's who were still grinding away.

Stop the whining already, it's getting on everyone's nerves.

They also didn't promise to track exp gains when they did that.
Do you get the point of all of this now?

-
I like how people defend ZOS when they themselves aren't screwed over by the changes (while a better person gets screwed). Just goes to show how many ignorant and selfish people are there nowadays.

I didn't realize they put their hand to a bible and double pinky promised that a system still being developed would be exactly as they thought it would be. This isn't even the only change to the Champion system from when we first saw it.

This is all about a group of players who want to start with a massive advantage over other players in a new system. They are spinning angry fantasies and not bothering to address anything about the stated reasons:

1) It's a transition and they aren't removing the VR ranks yet;
2) It complicates balancing if they start with big piles of VR ranks;

The first point is important: if they reset everyone to level 50, then there is a good reason to compensate VR14s who have *lost* something. This is radically different from showering them with extra benefits *before* the reset.

And the idea that people get unlimited experience from stuff done before a new system is released doesn't even pass the laugh test. There *has* to be a cap for numerous reasons, and ignorant political analogies have nothing to do with the logic of a *game*.

Chess champions don't get extra pieces because they "worked hard" and "put in a lot of hours". Sports teams don't get extra players on the field. Competitive games need a level playing ground; and this is extremely important for PvP. Now, in the case of PvE there is player advancement; but it turns out largely to be a treadmill, because automatic "I win" gear makes for a boring game.

Games that let a handful of players stack up massive advantages are games where no new people enter and they are games that wither and die.