Templars: Trading "Blinding Light" for "Radiant Destruction"

Frenkthevile · December 2014

I would have enjoyed more some kind of TAUNT effect for blinding flashes.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

I'm perfectly happy that the magic, ranged DPS line for Templars is getting a magic, ranged execute skill, really. Look forward to what other changes are in store to make the Solar Mage viable.

tplink3r1 · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Blinding flashes is not the skill to be changed.

There are plenty of useless skills in the Templar skill line. Why removing one wich was actually usefull?
Purpose of Zenimax in theory is: Make useless skills usefull in some situations. Well, they're just changing a usefull skill into another usefull one. I guess nobody in the developer team is playing a templar. Atleast not right!

blinding flashes is the skill to be changed considering that it doesnt affect half of the enemies and the ones that are affected dont really need that skill.
name one situation where that skill is a must for survival.
ill take a dps increase any day

It's pretty strong in PvP. If that's your argument Eclipse is probably a better candidate for replacement, as it's barely useful on the mobs it does affect for its magicka cost.

strong in PvP? WHO THE **** ATTACKS YOU FROM 5 METERS? 80% are casters and the other 20% are going to attack you from 6~8 meters.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

tplink3r1 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Blinding flashes is not the skill to be changed.

There are plenty of useless skills in the Templar skill line. Why removing one wich was actually usefull?
Purpose of Zenimax in theory is: Make useless skills usefull in some situations. Well, they're just changing a usefull skill into another usefull one. I guess nobody in the developer team is playing a templar. Atleast not right!

blinding flashes is the skill to be changed considering that it doesnt affect half of the enemies and the ones that are affected dont really need that skill.
name one situation where that skill is a must for survival.
ill take a dps increase any day

It's pretty strong in PvP. If that's your argument Eclipse is probably a better candidate for replacement, as it's barely useful on the mobs it does affect for its magicka cost.

strong in PvP? WHO THE **** ATTACKS YOU FROM 5 METERS? 80% are casters and the other 20% are going to attack you from 6~8 meters.

You don't need to be in range when they attack, the debuff works even if they move out of range after you've placed it on them. Just cast Blinding Flashes and use a gap-closer on your target to debuff, even if they create some distance the blind remains.

Soris · December 2014

Did everyone miss the "channelling" part of this new execute or did I get it wrong? If it will be really a channelled spell like jabs, then it will be yet another awful designed skill for templars

Khivas_Carrick · December 2014

Debatable on that. It'll depend on how much damage it does and how long the cast is

tinythinker · December 2014

faernaa wrote: »

Did everyone miss the "channelling" part of this new execute or did I get it wrong? If it will be really a channelled spell like jabs, then it will be yet another awful designed skill for templars

No it was mentioned, which is why some of us are on the fence about it.

Muizer · December 2014

tinythinker wrote: »

Yes, Blinding Light is going away completely. And I feel pretty safe in saying that while you will get your skill point(s) back, you will have to re-level the new ability and whichever of its morphs you decide to go with.

If it's a new ability, I fear you may be right. If it's just the morph, they can keep the level of the base ability (meaning you can pick a new morph immediately if you choose that base ability again). Levels for the morph itself? I lost all of that last time they reset abilities. Not sure that has much impact on anything though.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

faernaa wrote: »

Did everyone miss the "channelling" part of this new execute or did I get it wrong? If it will be really a channelled spell like jabs, then it will be yet another awful designed skill for templars

Puncturing Strikes doesn't really work because it's a melee channel (although you can make it work with Immovable, Shields, etc.). A ranged channel isn't that bad. Think Soul Assault.

booksmcread · December 2014

faernaa wrote: »

Did everyone miss the "channelling" part of this new execute or did I get it wrong? If it will be really a channelled spell like jabs, then it will be yet another awful designed skill for templars

Yeah, I agree. We have enough skills already that have inductions, channels, or extremely slow traveling projectiles. I would be more enthused with an instant-cast dps execute ability.

Soris · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

Did everyone miss the "channelling" part of this new execute or did I get it wrong? If it will be really a channelled spell like jabs, then it will be yet another awful designed skill for templars

Puncturing Strikes doesn't really work because it's a melee channel (although you can make it work with Immovable, Shields, etc.). A ranged channel isn't that bad. Think Soul Assault.

Certainly a ranged execute is brilliant idea. However channelled or hard cast spells in a fast paced combat game where you need to actively block and dodge, is not so tolerable. Considering every other skills can be done by block casting, dodge casting or animation cancelling with light attacks and such.

Why always a templar has to use immovable every time before casting a damn spell while other classes just smash buttons randomly? I dont get it

david.haypreub18_ESO · December 2014

How about they make a single DK spell channeled? They're the only class that doesn't have one.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

I'm reserving judgement until I actually see the spell in action (which is my policy for everything 1.6). I don't see anything inherently wrong with a channel however as long as it has pros to outweigh the cons (high damage anyone??? *drools*).

tplink3r1 · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Blinding flashes is not the skill to be changed.

There are plenty of useless skills in the Templar skill line. Why removing one wich was actually usefull?
Purpose of Zenimax in theory is: Make useless skills usefull in some situations. Well, they're just changing a usefull skill into another usefull one. I guess nobody in the developer team is playing a templar. Atleast not right!

blinding flashes is the skill to be changed considering that it doesnt affect half of the enemies and the ones that are affected dont really need that skill.
name one situation where that skill is a must for survival.
ill take a dps increase any day

It's pretty strong in PvP. If that's your argument Eclipse is probably a better candidate for replacement, as it's barely useful on the mobs it does affect for its magicka cost.

strong in PvP? WHO THE **** ATTACKS YOU FROM 5 METERS? 80% are casters and the other 20% are going to attack you from 6~8 meters.

You don't need to be in range when they attack, the debuff works even if they move out of range after you've placed it on them. Just cast Blinding Flashes and use a gap-closer on your target to debuff, even if they create some distance the blind remains.

For 2 seconds.
worst PvP ability in the game.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I always liked Blinding Flashes in theory, but could never justify using it instead of Blazing Shield; and using it with Blazing Shield seems like a huge magicka drain. Would've preferred they made it more viable and replaced Backlash instead (never liked that skill), but whatever.

Exactly this. Blinding Flashes wasn't bad, but I'd much rather let enemies explode damage back on themselves and keep Blazing them down to death. Furthermore, it makes me a little sad that an ability clearly meant for tanking/crowd control is getting dumped. This wouldn't bother me so badly, if Rune Focus had a morph which could travel with you. We'll see though, it might be fun. As someone who plays the Templar as a tank though, it does make me a little sad. Much agreed on backlash.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

tplink3r1 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Blinding flashes is not the skill to be changed.

There are plenty of useless skills in the Templar skill line. Why removing one wich was actually usefull?
Purpose of Zenimax in theory is: Make useless skills usefull in some situations. Well, they're just changing a usefull skill into another usefull one. I guess nobody in the developer team is playing a templar. Atleast not right!

blinding flashes is the skill to be changed considering that it doesnt affect half of the enemies and the ones that are affected dont really need that skill.
name one situation where that skill is a must for survival.
ill take a dps increase any day

It's pretty strong in PvP. If that's your argument Eclipse is probably a better candidate for replacement, as it's barely useful on the mobs it does affect for its magicka cost.

strong in PvP? WHO THE **** ATTACKS YOU FROM 5 METERS? 80% are casters and the other 20% are going to attack you from 6~8 meters.

You don't need to be in range when they attack, the debuff works even if they move out of range after you've placed it on them. Just cast Blinding Flashes and use a gap-closer on your target to debuff, even if they create some distance the blind remains.

For 2 seconds.
worst PvP ability in the game.

2 seconds is how often it reapplies the debuff, the actual debuff lasts 4 seconds.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2014

I'd like to also add, with Blinding Flashes now apparently officially gone, Templars literally have no crowd control.

Before people get upset and try to include Binding Javelin or Blazing Spears, I'll simply ask what part of a single target control involves a crowd? Also, most classes have something equivalent, as well as an aoe cc.

What I'd really like to see them do is make the Spellcrafting system, and somehow dovetail that into our class abilities as well. (I would love to have a greater choice in how I morph my class abilities).

tplink3r1 · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Blinding flashes is not the skill to be changed.

There are plenty of useless skills in the Templar skill line. Why removing one wich was actually usefull?
Purpose of Zenimax in theory is: Make useless skills usefull in some situations. Well, they're just changing a usefull skill into another usefull one. I guess nobody in the developer team is playing a templar. Atleast not right!

blinding flashes is the skill to be changed considering that it doesnt affect half of the enemies and the ones that are affected dont really need that skill.
name one situation where that skill is a must for survival.
ill take a dps increase any day

It's pretty strong in PvP. If that's your argument Eclipse is probably a better candidate for replacement, as it's barely useful on the mobs it does affect for its magicka cost.

strong in PvP? WHO THE **** ATTACKS YOU FROM 5 METERS? 80% are casters and the other 20% are going to attack you from 6~8 meters.

You don't need to be in range when they attack, the debuff works even if they move out of range after you've placed it on them. Just cast Blinding Flashes and use a gap-closer on your target to debuff, even if they create some distance the blind remains.

For 2 seconds.
worst PvP ability in the game.

2 seconds is how often it reapplies the debuff, the actual debuff lasts 4 seconds.

test it by yourself to see how wrong you are.
the debuff ends right after the first pulse, wich is 2 seconds after the cast.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

I'm perfectly happy that the magic, ranged DPS line for Templars is getting a magic, ranged execute skill, really. Look forward to what other changes are in store to make the Solar Mage viable.

Agreed. I love the look and feel of my celestial mage (solar mage, whatever you want to call it), but I was having to use a bunch of destruction staff and mage's guild abilities to make up for the shortcomings in dawn's wrath damage.

Hopefully this ranged execute ends up being worthwhile.

timidobserver · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I am okay with the trade. They need to get rid of eclipse as well since all bosses are immune to that too and it can be CC broken.

If DKs can have Reflective Scales work on everything I don't see why Eclipse shouldn't, with changes of course. In any case Eclipse, despite its severe limitations, has some use in PvP; so I wouldn't want to see it gone. Give it the Bolt Escape treatment and remove the draconic limitations and it will be fine.

Sure, I'd be open for it to work against everything, but I am also open to just deleting it and replacing it. Either way works for me since the skill is even more useless than blinding light ATM.

Khivas_Carrick · December 2014

My thing is this: what else are they replacing? What else is being reworked? I can't make any criticism and tell people what's what along with everything and everyone else because all we're getting are minor teases at best.

I need to see what is coming damn it, and until I can, the best we got is to sit here with our thumbs up our bums

tinythinker · December 2014

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

My thing is this: what else are they replacing? What else is being reworked? I can't make any criticism and tell people what's what along with everything and everyone else because all we're getting are minor teases at best.

I need to see what is coming damn it, and until I can, the best we got is to sit here with our thumbs up our bums

They didn't mention replacing anything else, just that Templars would have higher damage totals.

david.haypreub18_ESO · December 2014

I'm glad Templars are getting an execute, but:

--Making something channeled usually cripples its usefulness. Why is it that Dragonknights are the only class that has absolutely no channeled class skills?

--As another poster noted in a different thread, removing Blinding Flashes means Templars have no AoE CC (Spears and Javelin only hit one target). Is it worth giving up our only AoE CC to have a channeled execute?

Shinra · December 2014

I really like blinding flashes and REALLY don't want to see it gone from a templars arsenal. But well, I already don't use it anymore and rather keep up radiant aura, since that one helps against bosses as well.

But an execute? long range, channeled? So it's basically another dark flare, right?

So I guess, as long as the enemy has lot's of health, you use dark flare rotation, and once he gets low enough, you change to that new skill?
I can totally see how this will make playing a templar more interesting.

/sarcasm off

nope I am not impressed by the new skill. Still have some hope left for the morphs though.

tinythinker · December 2014

Shinra wrote: »

I really like blinding flashes and REALLY don't want to see it gone from a templars arsenal. But well, I already don't use it anymore and rather keep up radiant aura, since that one helps against bosses as well.

But an execute? long range, channeled? So it's basically another dark flare, right?

So I guess, as long as the enemy has lot's of health, you use dark flare rotation, and once he gets low enough, you change to that new skill?
I can totally see how this will make playing a templar more interesting.

Yeah not much to go on yet. Maybe another ability has been modified for CC?

The reception may depend on whether Radiant Destruction looks more like this (based on being near current magicka soft cap and using the current numerical system for simplicity):

Channeled Time: 2.2 seconds
Target: Enemy
Range: 38 meters
Cost: 320 Magicka

Conjure a fiery stream of magic to devastate your foe for 325 Fire Damage, with damage increasing based on target's health loss, to a maximum of 300%.

-or-

Channeled Time: 3.1 seconds
Target: Enemy
Range: 28 meters
Cost: 360 Magicka

Conjure a fiery stream of magic to devastate your foe for 250 Fire Damage, with damage increasing based on target's health loss, to a maximum of 200%.

(How's that for baseless speculation :disagree:)

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

I'm glad Templars are getting an execute, but:

--Making something channeled usually cripples its usefulness. Why is it that Dragonknights are the only class that has absolutely no channeled class skills?

--As another poster noted in a different thread, removing Blinding Flashes means Templars have no AoE CC (Spears and Javelin only hit one target). Is it worth giving up our only AoE CC to have a channeled execute?

You may have been referring to a post I made, but yes, this bothers me too. Additionally, you have a completely WORTHLESS skill called Backlash/PowerofTheLight/PurifyingLight just begging to be changed. Its got a long buildup, that supposedly will have a payoff in improving DPS. Instead what it does is completely nerf your dps. Its a worthless skill that would have been great for that part of the skill line. Yes I'm sad to see Blinding Flashes go, even if it needed help: It was .2seconds away from getting another 'pop' of the ability if you had both passives slotted, thereby making the passives pointless on that ability. The real irony here is that DK's have something similar called Cinder Storm... and it has always been better as far as I'm concerned.

All Complaints aside though, I do think they are genuinely trying to improve and fix things, and while I find some of their choices uncomfortable at times (particularly as a guy who wants to be a heavy armor knight class character) I think their heart is in the right place.

In terms of DPS, I think the big problem with Templars is all their attack moves are painfully slow and clunky with huge chargeup times. Even if they were instant cast, frankly most Templar attack powers are pretty crappy, made moreso by the fact Templar has THE WEAKEST magicka regen of any class. Personally, I'd be comfortable with the weaker magicka regen, if they in turn gave us a more noticeable buff in the form of Balanced Warrior. I'd LOVE if the Templar class as the Knight/Healer class got a +weapon damage buff with a little more oomph behind it than 4%. It also makes me sad that with Illuminated passive not working properly (and I don't know why people keep saying it works, because I've tested it recently) our spell resistance is weaker (200 vs. 250) than the DK (and the DK also gets all kinds of armor buffs), battle roar, etc. Even with this execute added, Templar just feels really slapshod. I've pointed this out before in other threads, but my big hope is that Spellcrafting will FORCE balance on us all. Once everyone can have access to Restoration school, I think we can end the BS that Templar has to be the one trick healing pony... and then maybe they can balance us back to having powers that actually hit hard and don't take forever to load. That's my hope anyway... to be honest I don't like classes having 'unique' skills that no one else can learn to begin with. That's what all those other fantasy games do, and not what The Elder Scrolls has done historically.

I have to say I'm not entirely comfortable with the changes being done to Nightblade either, considering Haste was a great way for my NB to recover stamina (as a bow user) and keep firing for sustained dps. Even with the attack weaving, I still found Haste very useful, and now the NB Weapon User is taking a nasty hit as far as I see it. I'm not sure how NB's getting 1 more execute is all that great (as cool as spectral bow sounds).

Khivas_Carrick · December 2014

Long story short:

Nobody knows if anything else is gonna happen because we don't have the full story. Even I doubt that @ZoS would be that stupid as to change just one skill without checking anything else.

A channel is a channel, not a cast, so it might actually be better than dark flare.

Templars need CC

Dragonknights need a cast/channeled skill.

Let's all sit and wait and see how this goes, because we cannot predict the future.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2014

Frenkthevile wrote: »

I would have enjoyed more some kind of TAUNT effect for blinding flashes.

You know, a 'reverse fear' would actually be awesome, and it would work well with this skill. What an awesome idea, and I totally missed this post the first time around. I agree, I would have liked this as well. Too many other abilities were gimped out that were prime candidates for an execute.

AssaultLemming · December 2014

I really liked blinding flashes for mitigating damage from packs of trash mobs, soloing craglorn, or various vet dungeon encounters with lots of adds. I never cared that it didn't affect boss mobs because that's not where I use it.

What they should have done was increase the damage cap on backlash and add a damage modifier for when it explodes on low health targets. That would have made a lot more sense.

manny254 · December 2014

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Long story short:

Nobody knows if anything else is gonna happen because we don't have the full story. Even I doubt that @ZoS would be that stupid as to change just one skill without checking anything else.

A channel is a channel, not a cast, so it might actually be better than dark flare.

Templars need CC

Dragonknights need a cast/channeled skill.

Let's all sit and wait and see how this goes, because we cannot predict the future.

I don't think that dk's need a cast/channel skill. They are the only class that has skills that are all essentially limited to melee. Their skills with the greatest range are a pull and a gap closing ult.