Templars: Trading "Blinding Light" for "Radiant Destruction"

tinythinker · December 2014

What do you think of the trade? And does it indicate the kind of change you were hoping to see for the class after the long wait for a class review?

Apparently Blinding Light was considered OP and too many NPCs were made immune to it, so it is being replaced with an ability called Radiant Destruction, which sounds a bit like a cross between the Sorcerer ability Mage's Fury and the Two Handed ability Reverse Slash as it can be used to "melt" low health targets.

Speaking (more broadly?) about the changes for the class, Eric Wrobel said: "A Templar can actually deal DPS now. Yay Templars! You're moment in the sun has come."

squshy7 · December 2014

Well at first I was depressed, as blinding flashes has long been a hidden gem of a skill that not many templars use...but when they said that temps are basically getting an execute...

I think the trade-off is worth it

david.haypreub18_ESO · December 2014

Same here.

Though it never ceases to amaze me what ZOS considers overpowered. They considered the Templar charge so overpowered they introduced a global cooldown to it... this was months ago, when Talons and Scales were so overpowered everyone recognized it but them. And they decide to nerf the Templar charge rather than Scales. It really does boggle the mind how much they love their Dragonknights.

Mettaricana · December 2014

i like it

derpsticks · December 2014

I'd be ok with it if it weren't another channeled ability. I'll wait to see the morphs but I don't have my hopes up. This does replace the entire skill right? Not just the one morph?

Speaking of the morphs, will we have to level this skill all over again or will it come with the xp we gained previously.

tinythinker · December 2014

squshy7 wrote: »

Well at first I was depressed, as blinding flashes has long been a hidden gem of a skill that not many templars use...but when they said that temps are basically getting an execute...

I think the trade-off is worth it

Yes I do like to use Blinding in my PvE combat rotation. I like the damage reduction schemes for Templar, not sure I will care much about a single target execute but I will wait to see how it performs and what its morphs have to offer.

derpsticks wrote: »

I'd be ok with it if it weren't another channeled ability. I'll wait to see the morphs but I don't have my hopes up. This does replace the entire skill right? Not just the one morph?

Speaking of the morphs, will we have to level this skill all over again or will it come with the xp we gained previously.

Yes, Blinding Light is going away completely. And I feel pretty safe in saying that while you will get your skill point(s) back, you will have to re-level the new ability and whichever of its morphs you decide to go with.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · December 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Same here.

Though it never ceases to amaze me what ZOS considers overpowered. They considered the Templar charge so overpowered they introduced a global cooldown to it... this was months ago, when Talons and Scales were so overpowered everyone recognized it but them. And they decide to nerf the Templar charge rather than Scales. It really does boggle the mind how much they love their Dragonknights.

Truer words have never been spoken. Templars got the first nerfs in the game before the meta even had time to solidify.

Restoring spirit got nerfed and templars have had magicka issues since then if you are not sporting warlock + seducer.

In a game with no cooldowns, ZOS is finally considering "reducing" the GCD on an ability that shouldn't have had a cooldown in the first place.

Meanwhile the Reflective scales nerf will still let DKs reflect 4 projectiles per 4 seconds when they have to refresh it anyway.

Can we get someone on the DEV team that doesn't play a DK?

tinythinker · December 2014

@Yolokin_Swagonborn‌ did you forget the infamous magicka cost increase/added cooldown for Puncturing Strikes and all the outrage by/jeering of Templar players that erupted on the forums? Good times.

squshy7 · December 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Same here.

Though it never ceases to amaze me what ZOS considers overpowered. They considered the Templar charge so overpowered they introduced a global cooldown to it... this was months ago, when Talons and Scales were so overpowered everyone recognized it but them. And they decide to nerf the Templar charge rather than Scales. It really does boggle the mind how much they love their Dragonknights.

Sorry, but, blinding flashes *is* overpowered. I use it extensively in DSA/vet-DSA...and it's ridiculous. 3 flashes, every 2 seconds, that applies a 7 second debuff everytime it hits...and the miss chance is 50%. That's exactly why they made bosses immune to it. Which is also *exactly* why our finicky player-base doesn't use it.

I suppose that yes, they could have lowered the miss chance in order to balance. But look at this way: magicka-based templars as a DPS have secretly cried for an execute for a looong time. And the jabs morph certainly doesn't cut it. So rather than rebalancing the skill, that no one really uses anyway, why not use that opportunity to kill 2 birds with one stone?

That's why I'm ok with this change, even though I'll shed a tear for my beloved blinding 1v1 build

derpsticks · December 2014

@david.haypreub18_ESO

The templar exploding charge can proc burning light on everyone around the target. It is amazing in combination with a high crit rate, cost reduction, light armor, high spell power, and certain other spells and set bonuses. We are talking massive aoe damage, mucho ultimate, and great combos galore. Then they gave it the .5s momentary amnesia self debuff on hit.

tinythinker · December 2014

derpsticks wrote: »

@david.haypreub18_ESO

The templar exploding charge can proc burning light on everyone around the target. It is amazing in combination with a high crit rate, cost reduction, light armor, high spell power, and certain other spells and set bonuses. We are talking massive aoe damage, mucho ultimate, and great combos galore. Then they gave it the .5s momentary amnesia self debuff on hit.

Only until 1.6 hits live. But still a solid ability.

derpsticks · December 2014

It is unfortunate that my additional healing, heavy/light armor, puncturing sweeps, blazing spear, blazing shield, into empowering sweep pve aoe/survivability build is now useless given empowering sweeps is on a 24 second cooldown.

There used to be that chance, where earning just enough ultimate to cast empowering would save your ass. Now I will know up to 24s ahead of time if I am doomed. One mistake could cost me, whereas before I could afford an early mistake.

tplink3r1 · December 2014

squshy7 wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Same here.

Though it never ceases to amaze me what ZOS considers overpowered. They considered the Templar charge so overpowered they introduced a global cooldown to it... this was months ago, when Talons and Scales were so overpowered everyone recognized it but them. And they decide to nerf the Templar charge rather than Scales. It really does boggle the mind how much they love their Dragonknights.

Sorry, but, blinding flashes *is* overpowered. I use it extensively in DSA/vet-DSA...and it's ridiculous. 3 flashes, every 2 seconds, that applies a 7 second debuff everytime it hits...and the miss chance is 50%. That's exactly why they made bosses immune to it. Which is also *exactly* why our finicky player-base doesn't use it.

I suppose that yes, they could have lowered the miss chance in order to balance. But look at this way: magicka-based templars as a DPS have secretly cried for an execute for a looong time. And the jabs morph certainly doesn't cut it. So rather than rebalancing the skill, that no one really uses anyway, why not use that opportunity to kill 2 birds with one stone?

That's why I'm ok with this change, even though I'll shed a tear for my beloved blinding 1v1 build

the debuff is applied for 2 seconds, not 7.

Hypertionb14_ESO · December 2014

Blinding flashes was a niche skill that was only useful vs packs of trash mobs..

however, in that Niche role it far surpassed any alternative anything could provide... save Ember Explosion from DW.

it was the skill that made Templar tanks one of the best vs trash packs.

all this said...

it is nice that Templars are getting a class execute.....

but i would have rather had them replace a different skill with such...

tinythinker · December 2014

derpsticks wrote: »

It is unfortunate that my additional healing, heavy/light armor, puncturing sweeps, blazing spear, blazing shield, into empowering sweep pve aoe/survivability build is now useless given empowering sweeps is on a 24 second cooldown.

There used to be that chance, where earning just enough ultimate to cast empowering would save your ass. Now I will know up to 24s ahead of time if I am doomed. One mistake could cost me, whereas before I could afford an early mistake.

I have a build similar to that which works with either 5 light/2 heavy for magicka sustainability or 2 light/5 heavy for increased durability. I think I missed the 24s cooldown? Or is that a calculation based on the new ult gen system to be installed in 1.6?

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

I always liked Blinding Flashes in theory, but could never justify using it instead of Blazing Shield; and using it with Blazing Shield seems like a huge magicka drain. Would've preferred they made it more viable and replaced Backlash instead (never liked that skill), but whatever.

Xexpo · December 2014

get out Flashes
hello Soul Assault-ecute !

Based on how he spoke of going over skills, I would wager there is going to be much more going on with Templar abilities overall than just this one change.
So we probably shouldn't expend too much energy dissecting these things without the whole picture.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

kaer426 wrote: »

get out Flashes
hello Soul Assault-ecute !

Based on how he spoke of going over skills, I would wager there is going to be much more going on with Templar abilities overall than just this one change.
So we probably shouldn't expend too much energy dissecting these things without the whole picture.

Someone who gets it!

Seriously, the amount of moaning on these forums based on breadcrumbs is staggering.

Not saying there's any in this thread mind you, just in general *cough*Sorcerers*cough*.

tinythinker · December 2014

kaer426 wrote: »

get out Flashes
hello Soul Assault-ecute !

Based on how he spoke of going over skills, I would wager there is going to be much more going on with Templar abilities overall than just this one change.
So we probably shouldn't expend too much energy dissecting these things without the whole picture.

Part of this thread so far seems to be dissecting other changes or concerns not related to Radiant Destruction, but to your comment, that's why I had gone back and added the Wrobel quote, to emphasize that this is just one example of what might be a larger theme or set of similar changes.

Still, it's worth asking, since this is the first sign of the long-awaited Templar overhaul, if this sounds like the direction people were hoping that ZOS would go with. I've been writing for a while that while better DPS would be great I do hope that the buffs/debuffs/counters aren't sacrificed to get it. I am not going to pass judgment, though, based on the replacement of one under-used ability. I am on the fence for Radiant Destruction until I can see the details on the PTS. But considering that few people were using Blazing Light, it is probably a good trade.

derpsticks · December 2014

Rumor has it that backlash can be applied by two or more templars without any problems.

NordJitsu · December 2014

I think it's awesome.

An execute was exactly what DPS templar was missing.

Khivas_Carrick · December 2014

I can only imagine what else was changed for templars if an entire skill has been recreated.

timidobserver · December 2014

I am okay with the trade. They need to get rid of eclipse as well since all bosses are immune to that too and it can be CC broken.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

I am okay with the trade. They need to get rid of eclipse as well since all bosses are immune to that too and it can be CC broken.

If DKs can have Reflective Scales work on everything I don't see why Eclipse shouldn't, with changes of course. In any case Eclipse, despite its severe limitations, has some use in PvP; so I wouldn't want to see it gone. Give it the Bolt Escape treatment and remove the draconic limitations and it will be fine.

Evarwyn · December 2014

Personally, I hate it when I get a skill for tanking, that's supposed to increase my survivability in a fight...and then every boss I fight is immune to that ability. SWTOR is notorious for this!

I'm glad ZOS is getting rid of this ability. It's useless outside of a trash mob encounter, which...if you really need that kind of ability for a trash mob encounter, you're not surviving the boss fight anyway because you've got bigger problems!

I don't know about the replacement. Seems like a decent DPS skill choice. We'll have to wait and see how it plays when the PTS comes out.

Overall, I like the fact they're thinking outside the box (as usual) and trying to do something.

Leon119 · December 2014

its a welcome change as it will be more useful and definitely more used than flashes, however i have my doubts since they said its a channel skill. channeling at low % on enemies could leave you open to enrage mechanics

eserras7b16_ESO · December 2014

Blinding flashes is not the skill to be changed.

There are plenty of useless skills in the Templar skill line. Why removing one wich was actually usefull?
Purpose of Zenimax in theory is: Make useless skills usefull in some situations. Well, they're just changing a usefull skill into another usefull one. I guess nobody in the developer team is playing a templar. Atleast not right!

Leon119 · December 2014

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Blinding flashes is not the skill to be changed.

There are plenty of useless skills in the Templar skill line. Why removing one wich was actually usefull?
Purpose of Zenimax in theory is: Make useless skills usefull in some situations. Well, they're just changing a usefull skill into another usefull one. I guess nobody in the developer team is playing a templar. Atleast not right!

blinding flashes is the skill to be changed considering that it doesnt affect half of the enemies and the ones that are affected dont really need that skill.
name one situation where that skill is a must for survival.
ill take a dps increase any day

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

Leon119 wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Blinding flashes is not the skill to be changed.

There are plenty of useless skills in the Templar skill line. Why removing one wich was actually usefull?
Purpose of Zenimax in theory is: Make useless skills usefull in some situations. Well, they're just changing a usefull skill into another usefull one. I guess nobody in the developer team is playing a templar. Atleast not right!

blinding flashes is the skill to be changed considering that it doesnt affect half of the enemies and the ones that are affected dont really need that skill.
name one situation where that skill is a must for survival.
ill take a dps increase any day

It's pretty strong in PvP. If that's your argument Eclipse is probably a better candidate for replacement, as it's barely useful on the mobs it does affect for its magicka cost.

manny254 · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Blinding flashes is not the skill to be changed.

There are plenty of useless skills in the Templar skill line. Why removing one wich was actually usefull?
Purpose of Zenimax in theory is: Make useless skills usefull in some situations. Well, they're just changing a usefull skill into another usefull one. I guess nobody in the developer team is playing a templar. Atleast not right!

blinding flashes is the skill to be changed considering that it doesnt affect half of the enemies and the ones that are affected dont really need that skill.
name one situation where that skill is a must for survival.
ill take a dps increase any day

It's pretty strong in PvP. If that's your argument Eclipse is probably a better candidate for replacement, as it's barely useful on the mobs it does affect for its magicka cost.

This is exactly how I feel. Removing flashes eliminates my solo pvp build of dominating melee, and using sun shield instead of 1h and shield.

tinythinker · December 2014

Eclipse without a CC break and an extended range would be fine. Eclipse with an added 1 or 2 second unbreakable disorient after breaking free of the main effect would be fine. Little changes can go a long way for most of the underperforming Templar abilities.