Account wide CS points are a mistake

badmojo · December 2014

I can't help but feel like the champion system points being account wide is a huge mistake.

It enables players to progress their character without requiring them to play on that character.

I can't really put my finger on why this isn't a good thing, but I just feel like it's bad. It doesn't jive with the role playing, character progression theme of the game. Dyes are entirely cosmetic, so it only bothers me slightly that they are shared account wide, but the champion points... just no, please NO!

/rant

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

Go Go Gadget Flame Jacket

Its going to make it easier to level alts and not have to grind tons and tons of CS points on every character every time. Want a PVE character great get to level 50 and be viable. Want a PVP character? Great get to level 50 and be viable. Want a healer? Get to level 50 and be Viable. No more want a different character? Great get to level 50 then grind 200 hours to be viable.

Robocles · December 2014

Maybe that their whole idea that they don't want a big gap is screwed form the beginning by allowing the grinders who made multiple vr12-14 toons have so many points?

I don't know... just maybe.

david.haypreub18_ESO · December 2014

I like the proposed change. I really don't want to have to grind another alt to VR14... in fact, I simply will not do that, despite the fact that I love the game. So I welcome the idea that CS points are shared across accounts.

badmojo · December 2014

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Go Go Gadget Flame Jacket

Its going to make it easier to level alts and not have to grind tons and tons of CS points on every character every time. Want a PVE character great get to level 50 and be viable. Want a PVP character? Great get to level 50 and be viable. Want a healer? Get to level 50 and be Viable. No more want a different character? Great get to level 50 then grind 200 hours to be viable.

Except it seems like the opposite is going to happen. Players will stack the CS points from all 8 characters onto their main and destroy everyone who doesn't do that in PVP.

No?

Robocles · December 2014

You won't have access to CS points until 50 anyway. But, yeah.

badmojo · December 2014

The way I look at it, this is basically like making veteran ranks shared account wide.

Hit vr14 on your main? Level an alt and put the earned veteran ranks towards your main. Overcharge his rank to vr30 or whatever.

You all want to compete in pvp with characters like this? I don't want to be forced into a choice between having 8 viable characters, or one awesome character. That's not playing the game how I want.

Robocles · December 2014

Yeah... we'll see how it works out. The idea of being able to level all sorts of skills because I ground 3 vr14s when all of the boss exploits seems nice... unless I didn't. This idea reeks of consoles and supercharged playthroughs.

Drasn · December 2014

Robocles wrote: »

You won't have access to CS points until 50 anyway. But, yeah.

Wrong. A character can't earn CS points until 50, they can use them at level 1.

NotSo · December 2014

A ton of points for one player might make him seem like a vr14 versus a vr1, if that's what you mean by some people having more points. Shouldn't be an issue.

Gidorick · December 2014

badmojo wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Go Go Gadget Flame Jacket

Its going to make it easier to level alts and not have to grind tons and tons of CS points on every character every time. Want a PVE character great get to level 50 and be viable. Want a PVP character? Great get to level 50 and be viable. Want a healer? Get to level 50 and be Viable. No more want a different character? Great get to level 50 then grind 200 hours to be viable.

Except it seems like the opposite is going to happen. Players will stack the CS points from all 8 characters onto their main and destroy everyone who doesn't do that in PVP.

No?

This is what I worry about. people who DON'T have 8 alts maxed out to pool their CS points will be at a disadvantage.

Robocles · December 2014

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

You won't have access to CS points until 50 anyway. But, yeah.

Wrong. A character can't earn CS points until 50, they can use them at level 1.

Thanks for the friendly help. /sarcasm

jluceyub17_ESO · December 2014

@badmojo‌ you wont be able to pool CS points in the way you're suggesting.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1420778#Comment_1420778

Each character will have its own pool of CS points to spend, and those pools will always have the same amount in them as a CS point earned by one toon is credited to the CS pool of all your characters. There's no reward for having multiple CS point earning toons.

Drasn · December 2014

Robocles wrote: »

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

You won't have access to CS points until 50 anyway. But, yeah.

Wrong. A character can't earn CS points until 50, they can use them at level 1.

Ok... well, you can't earn them until after 50. And they haven't confirmed where you will be able to spend them, yet. But thanks for the friendly correction, based on no information.

It has been confirmed. See below.

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

While characters under level 50 cannot earn champion points, they will be able to spend champion points that are earned by your level 50 characters.

As an example, say you have a level 50 character who has earned 20 champion points to date. When you make a brand new level one character, you will automatically have 20 champion points to spend on that character if you'd like. And your level 15 character who you've had since launch will have had access to each champion point as your level 50 character unlocked them.

Basically each of your characters will have their own pool of points that can be spent independently but are earned collectively by your level-50 characters. When your level 50 character earns another champion point, the pool of points will increase by 1 for each of your other characters.

We hope this helps to clarify things a bit!

The thread that the information is located in is here.

bosmern_ESO · December 2014

With all characters sharing Champion points, it adds like 20k+ (if i remember correctly) hours of game time to the game, and you want that for every character? No thanks.

Maybe if all the points stayed static and heavily influenced combat then it should be for each character, but they aren't. Its small things that stack up over time, If your spending tons of time playing the game to earn those points they should be able to use them.

Robocles · December 2014

Well... it looks like he can sort of pool them... if he has multiple VR toons, they will all contribute to his CS pool... usable by all toons. So much for non vet pvp campaigns. Like I said, reeks of a second console playthrough, but with other people around. What fun.

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

badmojo wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Go Go Gadget Flame Jacket

Its going to make it easier to level alts and not have to grind tons and tons of CS points on every character every time. Want a PVE character great get to level 50 and be viable. Want a PVP character? Great get to level 50 and be viable. Want a healer? Get to level 50 and be Viable. No more want a different character? Great get to level 50 then grind 200 hours to be viable.

Except it seems like the opposite is going to happen. Players will stack the CS points from all 8 characters onto their main and destroy everyone who doesn't do that in PVP.

No?

No because you can only earn X amount of points per season. And the points are all into one pool. The points will or should take X amount of XP to get. So say its 1,000,000 XP per point. There will be 0 difference of whether you get that point playing your main or your alt. Now if 100 points can be gained per season then that's all you get. So it doesn't matter if you grind 100,000,000 XP on your main or 12,500,000 XP on each of 8 characters. Either way your still going to only have 100 points to use. And if you grind 100,000,000 XP on each character then your going to have 100 points to spend and just wasted a lot of time grinding extra XP for nothing.

Edit: What the guy below me quoted in fewer words also.

badmojo · December 2014

jluceyub17_ESO wrote: »

@badmojo‌ you wont be able to pool CS points in the way you're suggesting.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1420778#Comment_1420778

Each character will have its own pool of CS points to spend, and those pools will always have the same amount in them as a CS point earned by one toon is credited to the CS pool of all your characters. There's no reward for having multiple CS point earning toons.

Well, that's good.

I guess it's just desire for immersion, I don't really want my low level alt to be a champion. I know there's the option to not use the points on the low level alt. But, the game is built this way, and pvp.

Non-veteran campaigns will be interesting after this change.

Elsonso · December 2014

The whole game is centered around the One, the @Player, and the idea that you only have one character and alts are merely reflections of that character in all the ways that are important. The term "vestige" is not just a catchy name for your character, it part of the core game design.

That Champion Points are usable across all characters is hardly surprising. I would be surprised if they were not.

badmojo · December 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

The whole game is centered around the One, the @Player, and the idea that you only have one character and alts are merely reflections of that character in all the ways that are important. The term "vestige" is not just a catchy name for your character, it part of the core game design.

That Champion Points are usable across all characters is hardly surprising. I would be surprised if they were not.

Insightful stuff right there. I don't want it to be that way, but it is.

Thanks for the reply.

reften · December 2014

If someone with two vr14 characters has more champ points than my one vr14 character...than it's an auto cancel. I refuse to replay content more than once to level

badmojo · December 2014

oren74 wrote: »

If someone with two vr14 characters has more champ points than my one vr14 character...than it's an auto cancel. I refuse to replay content more than once to level

I think the opposite would be true in that case. If a player spent 100 hours playing between two characters and got them both to v14, another player who spent 100 hours on only one character will have spent less time on content under level 50, therefore they'll have more champion points.

Basically, Alts = bad for champion points.

Robocles · December 2014

So the grinders who exploited to vr14 on multiple toons will have a ton more points than anyone form what I read in that thread. Of course, parts of it don't seem consistent, but that's the gist. I don't see where they talk about a limit per season, at least not anything that is readily achievable. But, then again, I'm not going to go watch/listen to all of their bs to glean what they actually mean. Maybe they can just post it in plain english, like Tristan did.

reften · December 2014

badmojo wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

If someone with two vr14 characters has more champ points than my one vr14 character...than it's an auto cancel. I refuse to replay content more than once to level

I think the opposite would be true in that case. If a player spent 100 hours playing between two characters and got them both to v14, another player who spent 100 hours on only one character will have spent less time on content under level 50, therefore they'll have more champion points.

Basically, Alts = bad for champion points.

I hope you're right. Maxed all crafts. 10k achievement pts. Love the game. Love pvp. But don't want to level alts to level my main.

jluceyub17_ESO · December 2014

@Robocles‌ They didn't begin tracking XP for Champion point purposes until 1.5.2, see patch notes, and most XP exploits had been removed with the exception of the boss grinds in Upper Craglorn (which were peanuts compared to some of the earlier exploits).

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · December 2014

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

You won't have access to CS points until 50 anyway. But, yeah.

Wrong. A character can't earn CS points until 50, they can use them at level 1.

Yup, this is correct, we were told by a ZOS rep in a previous thread.

Esha76 · December 2014

When announced, Paul Sage stated that having multiple 50+ characters will not give one player an advantage over another player with just one character. As stated, it's the @Name's account 50+ characters contribute to the CS progression.

@ZOS_TristanK‌ clarified:

"Basically each of your characters will have their own pool of points that can be spent independently but are earned collectively by your level-50 characters. "

All your 50+ characters earn Champ points (for each character you have) at the same rate/XP bar for the account. No one is getting any unfair advantage, or able to stack any points, so the system should work perfectly fine.

Right now, they have also been keeping track of XP players gaining beyond VR14. But I believe I read there will a Champ point cap upon going live. So, if someone is grinding XP endlessly beyond VR14 thinking they are going to get 1000s of CS points, or push a ridiculous amount of VR alts like me, they will be sorely disappointed.

RSram · December 2014

The CS system is just another complexity that we don't need. After reading all the posts on the CS I still don't see the point of it. Why not just have each character own their own champion points? What problem is the CS supposed to solve in the first place?

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

RSram wrote: »

The CS system is just another complexity that we don't need. After reading all the posts on the CS I still don't see the point of it. Why not just have each character own their own champion points? What problem is the CS supposed to solve in the first place?

Taking away vet ranks so you can choose to do silver and gold for the story and or skyshards or to completely bypass it and go straight to endgame. Easier to level up alts. allow for progression after 50 without having to gain more levels.

Some people don't want to do all 3 factions every time they level an alt. I know I don't get why they don't want to either
/sarcasm

Gidorick · December 2014

RSram wrote: »

The CS system is just another complexity that we don't need. After reading all the posts on the CS I still don't see the point of it. Why not just have each character own their own champion points? What problem is the CS supposed to solve in the first place?

It's supposed to keep people who just furiously consume content playing the game for a little bit longer. Systems like these are intended to keep players IN the game by giving them more to chase.

Welka · December 2014

My understanding was that the benefit of the CS were account wide too. So if you spend a point towards a 1% armor bonus, then all your chars get the armor bonus?