Player Housing vs Guild Cities
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diabeticDemon18✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »
K. So go play Skyrim. Again, you can't build an MMO, the way you build a single player game. It's computer science, not rocket science.
You're right. No, you can't make an MMO the way you built a single player game but you can add modules that strongly resemble those aspects from a single player game. Also computer science, not rocket science.
MMOs need to evolve. They need to move past the, "Go here, kill X, bring me Y" models they have relied upon so long. As graphics improve more and more people want to experience "living" in these amazing worlds. More and more players don't want to just slay monsters and get cool looking gear anymore. We want a more diverse and inclusive experience. We want to be able to level as crafters, entertainers, maybe even have the odd character who would be too cowardly to ever leave the city but makes a living crafting beautiful weapons or armor....or even things with which you can decorate your home. One of the most charming (and annoying, just like real life) things about Skyrim was the children! Yet we don't even HAVE children in this game! MMOs are too linerar and too focused on just one thing, combat. We LOVE the combat... but we want more. We want our heroes to come home and relax in front of their own hearth and hang their sword or battle axe above it. The woods in this game are full of deer and rabbit. Why aren't we hunting them? Why are we only gathering plants in the wild instead of cultivating them in our own gardens? When we go to a marketplace why aren't we buying clothing (not just armor), baskets, chickens, paintings, furniture, wall hangings and the like?
All this may sound like crazy pie-in-the-sky but it's all quite possible. And it would pull in a FAR more diverse player base...which means more subs, more money for ZOS. They really ought to think about it.
Agreed! I don't know if anyone else has played fable, but I really like the amount of content that is available in those games! In fable 3, you could:- Buy real estate, and live in/rent out those houses.
- Decorate your house in furniture and paintings you bought at stores
- Showcase trophies in your house that you picked up along the way
- Have children, as many as you want (as long as your wives/husbands lived in separate towns, you don't want to know what happens when they live together
) - You, weirdly enough, have an ***. I'm not saying let's do this, these are just all the realistic things about fable.
- You could get drunk. Your vision would be blurred and you would throw up randomly, also you couldn't walk in a straight line. (great fun to go fight monsters when drunk lol)
- You could get in trouble with the police and work to pay off your debt, either as a pie maker, lute player, or a blacksmith. (I know, justice system is coming)
- You could be a cross dresser and wear regular clothes. You could find clothes with no armor rating on them and act like a normal civilian.
- You could build friendships with people, or make them fear you if that's what you like, and that would effect how the game ended up.
- Co-Op, this isn't unheard of but it goes to show that the game can be multiplayer and still have all of these things in it.
I loved all of these aspects to this game because they were real. You had an option of what kind of hero you wanted to be. You could change the world around you. I understand that no, not all of these things would be possible with an MMO but I feel a great deal of them could be and it would be amazing! Such as getting drunk!! My friend and I once spent an hour playing Fable 3 where we just got drunk at a bar, got into a fight with the cops and tried to run away. It was the most fun I've ever had playing a game. Periodically he would have to stop and puke so I'd try to fight the guards while he puked, then we'd run away a little more. Then, after getting more drunk we dressed up as women and ran through the desert fighting monsters. I've never laughed so hard at a game before. That is what I want again
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Sindala✭✭✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »For Housing go look at Istaria, that game has non-instanced housing that you build yourself using a massive crafting system. Oh and it's 14 years old. Don't tell me They can't, the fact is they cant be bothered these days...
Yeah. UO has the same system. But UO looks like ***, graphically. Is that how you want ESO to look?
The point I was trying to make is that it CAN be done, it was done for many games years and years ago (also Istaria was one of the first 3d games nothing like UO) but over the years games companies have settled into a sloppy attitude towards those of us who like this sort of fluff.
The housing in SotA are non-instanced and looking awesome in early Alpha testing so why can a company that has been making this game for over 3 years still not have a clue about Housing??
Roleplayers, their I said it. We are the players that give games longevity not PvP'ers, yet we are constantly treated like the Elephant in the room these days.
How many of us still have active accounts on UO yet haven't logged in for over a year? We prop up the companies that should be thankful we exist, PvP'ers will jump ship just as soon as the next 'big game' is released but moan the whole time they are here.
Anyway i'm venting now......I just get so angry....lolBeing First is not the prize, it just mean's everyone can stab you in the back.2 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »For Housing go look at Istaria, that game has non-instanced housing that you build yourself using a massive crafting system. Oh and it's 14 years old. Don't tell me They can't, the fact is they cant be bothered these days...
Yeah. UO has the same system. But UO looks like ***, graphically. Is that how you want ESO to look?
The point I was trying to make is that it CAN be done, it was done for many games years and years ago (also Istaria was one of the first 3d games nothing like UO) but over the years games companies have settled into a sloppy attitude towards those of us who like this sort of fluff.
The housing in SotA are non-instanced and looking awesome in early Alpha testing so why can a company that has been making this game for over 3 years still not have a clue about Housing??
Roleplayers, their I said it. We are the players that give games longevity not PvP'ers, yet we are constantly treated like the Elephant in the room these days.
How many of us still have active accounts on UO yet haven't logged in for over a year? We prop up the companies that should be thankful we exist, PvP'ers will jump ship just as soon as the next 'big game' is released but moan the whole time they are here.
Anyway i'm venting now......I just get so angry....lol
Lol people have a way of getting into everyone's skin...
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HydroCanuck✭✭There is what, 700,000+ subscribers in ESO? So, you want 700,000 more houses added. And not just cookie cutter. You want to be able to build what ever kind of house you want, where ever you want. And then you want to fill it with a bunch of objects. So, let's say, 700,000 houses, of varying shapes and sizes, filled with 1000 objects each. So, that's 700,000,000 objects, you want to add to a game, where people already cry and complain about lag and log in troubles....K0 -
HydroCanuck✭✭diabeticDemon18 wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »
K. So go play Skyrim. Again, you can't build an MMO, the way you build a single player game. It's computer science, not rocket science.
You're right. No, you can't make an MMO the way you built a single player game but you can add modules that strongly resemble those aspects from a single player game. Also computer science, not rocket science.
MMOs need to evolve. They need to move past the, "Go here, kill X, bring me Y" models they have relied upon so long. As graphics improve more and more people want to experience "living" in these amazing worlds. More and more players don't want to just slay monsters and get cool looking gear anymore. We want a more diverse and inclusive experience. We want to be able to level as crafters, entertainers, maybe even have the odd character who would be too cowardly to ever leave the city but makes a living crafting beautiful weapons or armor....or even things with which you can decorate your home. One of the most charming (and annoying, just like real life) things about Skyrim was the children! Yet we don't even HAVE children in this game! MMOs are too linerar and too focused on just one thing, combat. We LOVE the combat... but we want more. We want our heroes to come home and relax in front of their own hearth and hang their sword or battle axe above it. The woods in this game are full of deer and rabbit. Why aren't we hunting them? Why are we only gathering plants in the wild instead of cultivating them in our own gardens? When we go to a marketplace why aren't we buying clothing (not just armor), baskets, chickens, paintings, furniture, wall hangings and the like?
All this may sound like crazy pie-in-the-sky but it's all quite possible. And it would pull in a FAR more diverse player base...which means more subs, more money for ZOS. They really ought to think about it.
Agreed! I don't know if anyone else has played fable, but I really like the amount of content that is available in those games! In fable 3, you could:- Buy real estate, and live in/rent out those houses.
- Decorate your house in furniture and paintings you bought at stores
- Showcase trophies in your house that you picked up along the way
- Have children, as many as you want (as long as your wives/husbands lived in separate towns, you don't want to know what happens when they live together )
- You, weirdly enough, have an ***. I'm not saying let's do this, these are just all the realistic things about fable.
- You could get drunk. Your vision would be blurred and you would throw up randomly, also you couldn't walk in a straight line. (great fun to go fight monsters when drunk lol)
- You could get in trouble with the police and work to pay off your debt, either as a pie maker, lute player, or a blacksmith. (I know, justice system is coming)
- You could be a cross dresser and wear regular clothes. You could find clothes with no armor rating on them and act like a normal civilian.
- You could build friendships with people, or make them fear you if that's what you like, and that would effect how the game ended up.
- Co-Op, this isn't unheard of but it goes to show that the game can be multiplayer and still have all of these things in it.
I loved all of these aspects to this game because they were real. You had an option of what kind of hero you wanted to be. You could change the world around you. I understand that no, not all of these things would be possible with an MMO but I feel a great deal of them could be and it would be amazing! Such as getting drunk!! My friend and I once spent an hour playing Fable 3 where we just got drunk at a bar, got into a fight with the cops and tried to run away. It was the most fun I've ever had playing a game. Periodically he would have to stop and puke so I'd try to fight the guards while he puked, then we'd run away a little more. Then, after getting more drunk we dressed up as women and ran through the desert fighting monsters. I've never laughed so hard at a game before. That is what I want again
Fable 3 is not an MMO. Massive being the key word here...0 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »There is what, 700,000+ subscribers in ESO? So, you want 700,000 more houses added. And not just cookie cutter. You want to be able to build what ever kind of house you want, where ever you want. And then you want to fill it with a bunch of objects. So, let's say, 700,000 houses, of varying shapes and sizes, filled with 1000 objects each. So, that's 700,000,000 objects, you want to add to a game, where people already cry and complain about lag and log in troubles....K
Trust me when I say, that it doesn't work like that. Just stop.3 -
HydroCanuck✭✭diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »There is what, 700,000+ subscribers in ESO? So, you want 700,000 more houses added. And not just cookie cutter. You want to be able to build what ever kind of house you want, where ever you want. And then you want to fill it with a bunch of objects. So, let's say, 700,000 houses, of varying shapes and sizes, filled with 1000 objects each. So, that's 700,000,000 objects, you want to add to a game, where people already cry and complain about lag and log in troubles....K
Trust me when I say, that it doesn't work like that. Just stop.
Yes it does. That's why on player run UO servers, you get prize tickets, for trashing your unwanted items.0 -
Sindala✭✭✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »There is what, 700,000+ subscribers in ESO? So, you want 700,000 more houses added. And not just cookie cutter. You want to be able to build what ever kind of house you want, where ever you want. And then you want to fill it with a bunch of objects. So, let's say, 700,000 houses, of varying shapes and sizes, filled with 1000 objects each. So, that's 700,000,000 objects, you want to add to a game, where people already cry and complain about lag and log in troubles....K
Trust me when I say, that it doesn't work like that. Just stop.
Yes it does. That's why on player run UO servers, you get prize tickets, for trashing your unwanted items.
Stop using UO as an example, we are nothing like UO anymore especially player run version run off a Spectrum in their mums basement.
The point you obviously wont accept is that there ARE ways to make housing happen.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:32PMBeing First is not the prize, it just mean's everyone can stab you in the back.1 -
HydroCanuck✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »There is what, 700,000+ subscribers in ESO? So, you want 700,000 more houses added. And not just cookie cutter. You want to be able to build what ever kind of house you want, where ever you want. And then you want to fill it with a bunch of objects. So, let's say, 700,000 houses, of varying shapes and sizes, filled with 1000 objects each. So, that's 700,000,000 objects, you want to add to a game, where people already cry and complain about lag and log in troubles....K
Trust me when I say, that it doesn't work like that. Just stop.
Yes it does. That's why on player run UO servers, you get prize tickets, for trashing your unwanted items.
Stop using UO as an example, we are nothing like UO anymore especially player run version run off a Spectrum in their mums basement.
The point you obviously wont accept is that there ARE ways to make housing happen.
[snip]
Yes, there is. Instanced housing. That's why every major MMO to implement it, has done it that way.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:33PM0 -
HydroCanuck✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »There is what, 700,000+ subscribers in ESO? So, you want 700,000 more houses added. And not just cookie cutter. You want to be able to build what ever kind of house you want, where ever you want. And then you want to fill it with a bunch of objects. So, let's say, 700,000 houses, of varying shapes and sizes, filled with 1000 objects each. So, that's 700,000,000 objects, you want to add to a game, where people already cry and complain about lag and log in troubles....K
Trust me when I say, that it doesn't work like that. Just stop.
Yes it does. That's why on player run UO servers, you get prize tickets, for trashing your unwanted items.
Stop using UO as an example, we are nothing like UO anymore especially player run version run off a Spectrum in their mums basement.
The point you obviously wont accept is that there ARE ways to make housing happen.
[snip]
Yeah. It's called instanced housing. Rift, WoW, SW:ToR, LotRO, ect. All are modern MMO's with player housing, and all are instanced. But I'm sure you know more than the programers of these very successful games.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:33PM0 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »There is what, 700,000+ subscribers in ESO? So, you want 700,000 more houses added. And not just cookie cutter. You want to be able to build what ever kind of house you want, where ever you want. And then you want to fill it with a bunch of objects. So, let's say, 700,000 houses, of varying shapes and sizes, filled with 1000 objects each. So, that's 700,000,000 objects, you want to add to a game, where people already cry and complain about lag and log in troubles....K
Trust me when I say, that it doesn't work like that. Just stop.
Yes it does. That's why on player run UO servers, you get prize tickets, for trashing your unwanted items.
Stop using UO as an example, we are nothing like UO anymore especially player run version run off a Spectrum in their mums basement.
The point you obviously wont accept is that there ARE ways to make housing happen.
[snip]
Agreed. And as to what he said. Not if done correctly. If it is instanced, and only created when a player is inside that instance, it would not cause a problem. There are TONS of instances in the game, this would create just as little, or even probably less for the lack of mobs and quests, server traffic as someone entering those instances. Plus, I highly doubt their servers couldn't handle a little extra load, if they're already planning on introducing more and more stuff in the game... jsing
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:33PM2 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭Moderator Note: Removed for
- Cursing and Profanity: Purposefully circumventing our forum profanity filter or otherwise cursing or using profanity is not permitted on our forums. Our forums have a profanity filter in place for the purpose of keeping profanity off our forums — please help us keep the ESO community constructive and profanity-free by respecting that filter.
Edited by ZOS_MichaelM on February 11, 2015 10:24AM1 -
Sindala✭✭✭✭✭We all know it's going to have to be Instanced in ESO wether we like it or not.
They can make it a whole lot better than others have though by incorporating other elements.
-Create Industrial skills for plots.
-You buy a Plot of land and then like Skyrim did, get the chance to build it. Not just buy it then it's there.
-Make it 'semi instanced' so others can join, perhaps have a Wooden Chest where Thieves Guild member can try to steal a generic item (for points) from and you get the chance to catch them and a little 1 on 1 PvP.
-Like Skyrim, have mobs occasionally attack the House and have to rebuild parts.
-They are introducing Rest XP so make it happen when you actually lie down IN a bed or sit ON a chair.
There is so much they can do, the question is will they set up or just go down the quick cash grab route.Being First is not the prize, it just mean's everyone can stab you in the back.2 -
helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS can simply copypaste the Cyrodiil campaigns code to make instanced home grounds. It is then instanced but we never run out of land. Home campaign for ... home! But maybe not exactly Cyrodiil itself, because i don't want alliance trains trample over my bugloss fields.On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone1 -
This is the last time I will mention this, non-instanced housing CAN be done. It's been done in major MMOs in the past, some as much as like 15 years old. IT CAN BE DONE.
Now, it's just extremely more feasible and resource effective to implement instanced housing. Even a pseudo version of non-instanced and instanced would be fine with me. Either way, housing and furniture and guild halls and guild cities would add so much more to the game if they used even just one of these ideas let alone all of them.1 -
MornaBaine wrote: »
I really like this idea. But I think it may have 2 things against it. First there's always the possibility it COULD turn into a ghost town. If the game population were much more robust than it is I could maybe see it happening. Secondly, there's only so much real estate in the game so then if the population DOES become more robust you run into the opposite problem, running out of land. This is why I kind of feel guild cities and player housing SHOULD be instanced.I know that means that only you and those you invite to group with you to go there are ever going to see it but that's enough for me.
Now a variation on your idea that MIGHT be doable is setting aside land that, while instanced, you can still see from each town at some point, like the way when you cross a bridge sometimes and thus leave one zone for another. So you see the little hamlet across the bridge and at the midpoint of the bridge you get a loading screen and then you are in the player town. Only instead of it being a GUILD city it is the homes of individual players who have chosen to purchase land in that particular area and build on it. Then the other options could come in depending on population as you've spoken of.
Of course a guild COULD buy up all the land in a certain area and thus you would then have de facto guild cities.
What do you think?
I think this would work quite well!! I wouldn't have any problems with this since you could still see something that resembles a town and such. I love MMOs that strive for immersion and if housing can be done with as little instancing as possible than I'm all in. This style of instancing keeps the 'instancing' to a minimal.
One thing to note though;
If the these 'towns' DO become ghost towns then all of the extra benefits could retract. This could be based on player activity not homes built. Quest giving NPCs (or any other resources given) are enabled at say 50 player homes. These 50 homes come with an upkeep and if not kept up then the benefits are retracted and the game saves on resources. The remaining players left in these ghost towns could possibly sell their homes in order to relocate to a more active town.1 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭Agreed, I think this would be the best way to implement housing that's instanced, but still looks immersive and not instanced 2
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HydroCanuck✭✭eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »This is the last time I will mention this, non-instanced housing CAN be done. It's been done in major MMOs in the past, some as much as like 15 years old. IT CAN BE DONE.
Now, it's just extremely more feasible and resource effective to implement instanced housing. Even a pseudo version of non-instanced and instanced would be fine with me. Either way, housing and furniture and guild halls and guild cities would add so much more to the game if they used even just one of these ideas let alone all of them.
I think your deffinition of "Major" may be a little off. I can think of 2. Starwars Galaxies, which had plenty of different planets, with lots of empty space, but that game is shut down.
Ultima Online, which, now a days, even with different shards, it is very hard to find a location to place even a small house, let alone a Guild Castle.
Other than that, any major MMO, since FF XI, has been instanced, one way or another. If not just for performance, than also space.
Non-Instanced housing, is not going to happen. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:35PM0 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »This is the last time I will mention this, non-instanced housing CAN be done. It's been done in major MMOs in the past, some as much as like 15 years old. IT CAN BE DONE.
Now, it's just extremely more feasible and resource effective to implement instanced housing. Even a pseudo version of non-instanced and instanced would be fine with me. Either way, housing and furniture and guild halls and guild cities would add so much more to the game if they used even just one of these ideas let alone all of them.
I think your deffinition of "Major" may be a little off. I can think of 2. Starwars Galaxies, which had plenty of different planets, with lots of empty space, but that game is shut down.
Ultima Online, which, now a days, even with different shards, it is very hard to find a location to place even a small house, let alone a Guild Castle.
Other than that, any major MMO, since FF XI, has been instanced, one way or another. If not just for performance, than also space.
Non-Instanced housing, is not going to happen. [snip]
Hey, hey, hey... kids, you need to play nice now! But, I don't think non-instanced housing is a fact of performance. It's a problem with space, Tamriel is large, but not large enough for 700,000+ players to build their own separate houses. The servers could handle it, other than if you are in Cyrodill. I just don't want the world to become filled with player housing and that stop newer players from having the same benefits as the older players. Everyone is equal in an MMO and needs to be treated as such
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:35PM1 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »This is the last time I will mention this, non-instanced housing CAN be done. It's been done in major MMOs in the past, some as much as like 15 years old. IT CAN BE DONE.
Now, it's just extremely more feasible and resource effective to implement instanced housing. Even a pseudo version of non-instanced and instanced would be fine with me. Either way, housing and furniture and guild halls and guild cities would add so much more to the game if they used even just one of these ideas let alone all of them.
I think your deffinition of "Major" may be a little off. I can think of 2. Starwars Galaxies, which had plenty of different planets, with lots of empty space, but that game is shut down.
Ultima Online, which, now a days, even with different shards, it is very hard to find a location to place even a small house, let alone a Guild Castle.
Other than that, any major MMO, since FF XI, has been instanced, one way or another. If not just for performance, than also space.
Non-Instanced housing, is not going to happen. [snip]
What about open housing only being available in certain zones/areas (Semi-open world placement). Places like the presumably civilized Summerset Isle or areas of Vvardenfell which have not been released yet. Or, if you don't want to trample on lore or otherwise reserve the spaces for tings like adventure zones, we could always put a random big island off the coast of the three alliances and try putting them in there.
But with the limited space, there would have to be ways for properties to be downgraded or otherwise seized/lost (this can be done by requiring player activity in the property, taxes, random events etc.).
We could also have instanced housing in the other zones as well, that way the open world housing could essentially be out-of-sight-out-of-mind for those who don't want to see it cluttering the landscape and possibly causing lag.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:40PM0 -
HydroCanuck✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »This is the last time I will mention this, non-instanced housing CAN be done. It's been done in major MMOs in the past, some as much as like 15 years old. IT CAN BE DONE.
Now, it's just extremely more feasible and resource effective to implement instanced housing. Even a pseudo version of non-instanced and instanced would be fine with me. Either way, housing and furniture and guild halls and guild cities would add so much more to the game if they used even just one of these ideas let alone all of them.
I think your deffinition of "Major" may be a little off. I can think of 2. Starwars Galaxies, which had plenty of different planets, with lots of empty space, but that game is shut down.
Ultima Online, which, now a days, even with different shards, it is very hard to find a location to place even a small house, let alone a Guild Castle.
Other than that, any major MMO, since FF XI, has been instanced, one way or another. If not just for performance, than also space.
Non-Instanced housing, is not going to happen. [snip]
What about open housing only being available in certain zones/areas (Semi-open world placement). Places like the presumably civilized Summerset Isle or areas of Vvardenfell which have not been released yet. Or, if you don't want to trample on lore or otherwise reserve the spaces for tings like adventure zones, we could always put a random big island off the coast of the three alliances and try putting them in there.
But with the limited space, there would have to be ways for properties to be downgraded or otherwise seized/lost (this can be done by requiring player activity in the property, taxes, random events etc.).
We could also have instanced housing in the other zones as well, that way the open world housing could essentially be out-of-sight-out-of-mind for those who don't want to see it cluttering the landscape and possibly causing lag.
I like this idea more so than just plopping a house down where ever you want. Have like Housing Islands, or something. There is usually some sort of upkeep system on housing. Upkeep runs out, and the house degrades.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:41PM0 -
HydroCanuck✭✭I guess ArcheAge also has certain area's of the world for subscribers to build custom houses as well. Haven't tried that one out yet though.0
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diabeticDemon18✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »This is the last time I will mention this, non-instanced housing CAN be done. It's been done in major MMOs in the past, some as much as like 15 years old. IT CAN BE DONE.
Now, it's just extremely more feasible and resource effective to implement instanced housing. Even a pseudo version of non-instanced and instanced would be fine with me. Either way, housing and furniture and guild halls and guild cities would add so much more to the game if they used even just one of these ideas let alone all of them.
I think your deffinition of "Major" may be a little off. I can think of 2. Starwars Galaxies, which had plenty of different planets, with lots of empty space, but that game is shut down.
Ultima Online, which, now a days, even with different shards, it is very hard to find a location to place even a small house, let alone a Guild Castle.
Other than that, any major MMO, since FF XI, has been instanced, one way or another. If not just for performance, than also space.
Non-Instanced housing, is not going to happen. [snip]
What about open housing only being available in certain zones/areas (Semi-open world placement). Places like the presumably civilized Summerset Isle or areas of Vvardenfell which have not been released yet. Or, if you don't want to trample on lore or otherwise reserve the spaces for tings like adventure zones, we could always put a random big island off the coast of the three alliances and try putting them in there.
But with the limited space, there would have to be ways for properties to be downgraded or otherwise seized/lost (this can be done by requiring player activity in the property, taxes, random events etc.).
We could also have instanced housing in the other zones as well, that way the open world housing could essentially be out-of-sight-out-of-mind for those who don't want to see it cluttering the landscape and possibly causing lag.
I like this idea more so than just plopping a house down where ever you want. Have like Housing Islands, or something. There is usually some sort of upkeep system on housing. Upkeep runs out, and the house degrades.
I like the idea more too as well, but I still feel like a town in the distance and then halfway across the bridge you hit a loading screen/menu that takes you into instanced housing would be ideal. Or as you said an island off the world that holds player housing but still be instanced. I don't want new players to be left out, that's what kills a game. Whenever the new players will quit because they can't get what everyone else has, even though they're paying the same subscription as everyone else
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:41PM1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For me it's important to be able to have housing in all the various zones. My Bretons live in Rivenspire, for instance. Others I have plans to base out of Bangkorai and Aliki'r. That's where I want their homes to be.
Now about instancing... Look at Northpoint. Unlike say Evermore in Bangkorai, it is instanced because of the quests in the area. So it's a walled city and you have to enter a gate. Which takes you to a brief loading screen and then you are in the city of Northpoint. The city exists on the map. You can ride or walk all around it on the outside. So it has a physical location in the world. But to get inside, it's instanced. Housing can also easily be handled with a similar premise. Sure, everyone in (for instance) Northpoint rides up to the same gate. But once inside they are in their own home, which they've built up as they desire and can afford.
Bringing visitors is easy too, you group and whoever is the group leader, everyone ports to their home when they enter the instance.
Or they could do it as Age of Conan did with guild cities, by adding a new land area that is actually part of the land in question...you enter it like you would any zone but you would select the "regular" (questing area) version OR your home (grouping still working as stated above) and a finite number of nice home plots are inside it so you'd actually have neighbors. Once it is full a new "neighborhood" instance would be created as soon as someone new wanted to place a home. In the event they do it this way, you should have the option to move by packing up all your items temporarily and getting back whatever you put into the structure in gold so you can choose a new location and build a new house.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
HydroCanuck✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »For me it's important to be able to have housing in all the various zones. My Bretons live in Rivenspire, for instance. Others I have plans to base out of Bangkorai and Aliki'r. That's where I want their homes to be.
Now about instancing... Look at Northpoint. Unlike say Evermore in Bangkorai, it is instanced because of the quests in the area. So it's a walled city and you have to enter a gate. Which takes you to a brief loading screen and then you are in the city of Northpoint. The city exists on the map. You can ride or walk all around it on the outside. So it has a physical location in the world. But to get inside, it's instanced. Housing can also easily be handled with a similar premise. Sure, everyone in (for instance) Northpoint rides up to the same gate. But once inside they are in their own home, which they've built up as they desire and can afford.
Bringing visitors is easy too, you group and whoever is the group leader, everyone ports to their home when they enter the instance.
Or they could do it as Age of Conan did with guild cities, by adding a new land area that is actually part of the land in question...you enter it like you would any zone but you would select the "regular" (questing area) version OR your home (grouping still working as stated above) and a finite number of nice home plots are inside it so you'd actually have neighbors. Once it is full a new "neighborhood" instance would be created as soon as someone new wanted to place a home. In the event they do it this way, you should have the option to move by packing up all your items temporarily and getting back whatever you put into the structure in gold so you can choose a new location and build a new house.
Lord of the Rings online, each major city, has a housing district. It's accessable by clicking on a big door. When you click on the big door, it's bring up a menu, and ask which "neighborhood" you want to visit, and how much housing is available in each neighborhood. Each neighborhood has 20 or 30 houses. If you know the address of your friends house, it's very easy to go fo a visit.1 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »For me it's important to be able to have housing in all the various zones. My Bretons live in Rivenspire, for instance. Others I have plans to base out of Bangkorai and Aliki'r. That's where I want their homes to be.
Now about instancing... Look at Northpoint. Unlike say Evermore in Bangkorai, it is instanced because of the quests in the area. So it's a walled city and you have to enter a gate. Which takes you to a brief loading screen and then you are in the city of Northpoint. The city exists on the map. You can ride or walk all around it on the outside. So it has a physical location in the world. But to get inside, it's instanced. Housing can also easily be handled with a similar premise. Sure, everyone in (for instance) Northpoint rides up to the same gate. But once inside they are in their own home, which they've built up as they desire and can afford.
Bringing visitors is easy too, you group and whoever is the group leader, everyone ports to their home when they enter the instance.
Or they could do it as Age of Conan did with guild cities, by adding a new land area that is actually part of the land in question...you enter it like you would any zone but you would select the "regular" (questing area) version OR your home (grouping still working as stated above) and a finite number of nice home plots are inside it so you'd actually have neighbors. Once it is full a new "neighborhood" instance would be created as soon as someone new wanted to place a home. In the event they do it this way, you should have the option to move by packing up all your items temporarily and getting back whatever you put into the structure in gold so you can choose a new location and build a new house.
Lord of the Rings online, each major city, has a housing district. It's accessable by clicking on a big door. When you click on the big door, it's bring up a menu, and ask which "neighborhood" you want to visit, and how much housing is available in each neighborhood. Each neighborhood has 20 or 30 houses. If you know the address of your friends house, it's very easy to go fo a visit.
I think that would be a very good way to do it as well1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »For me it's important to be able to have housing in all the various zones. My Bretons live in Rivenspire, for instance. Others I have plans to base out of Bangkorai and Aliki'r. That's where I want their homes to be.
Now about instancing... Look at Northpoint. Unlike say Evermore in Bangkorai, it is instanced because of the quests in the area. So it's a walled city and you have to enter a gate. Which takes you to a brief loading screen and then you are in the city of Northpoint. The city exists on the map. You can ride or walk all around it on the outside. So it has a physical location in the world. But to get inside, it's instanced. Housing can also easily be handled with a similar premise. Sure, everyone in (for instance) Northpoint rides up to the same gate. But once inside they are in their own home, which they've built up as they desire and can afford.
Bringing visitors is easy too, you group and whoever is the group leader, everyone ports to their home when they enter the instance.
Or they could do it as Age of Conan did with guild cities, by adding a new land area that is actually part of the land in question...you enter it like you would any zone but you would select the "regular" (questing area) version OR your home (grouping still working as stated above) and a finite number of nice home plots are inside it so you'd actually have neighbors. Once it is full a new "neighborhood" instance would be created as soon as someone new wanted to place a home. In the event they do it this way, you should have the option to move by packing up all your items temporarily and getting back whatever you put into the structure in gold so you can choose a new location and build a new house.
Lord of the Rings online, each major city, has a housing district. It's accessable by clicking on a big door. When you click on the big door, it's bring up a menu, and ask which "neighborhood" you want to visit, and how much housing is available in each neighborhood. Each neighborhood has 20 or 30 houses. If you know the address of your friends house, it's very easy to go fo a visit.
I think that would be a very good way to do it as well
Yes!PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
Sindala✭✭✭✭✭diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »This is the last time I will mention this, non-instanced housing CAN be done. It's been done in major MMOs in the past, some as much as like 15 years old. IT CAN BE DONE.
Now, it's just extremely more feasible and resource effective to implement instanced housing. Even a pseudo version of non-instanced and instanced would be fine with me. Either way, housing and furniture and guild halls and guild cities would add so much more to the game if they used even just one of these ideas let alone all of them.
I think your deffinition of "Major" may be a little off. I can think of 2. Starwars Galaxies, which had plenty of different planets, with lots of empty space, but that game is shut down.
Ultima Online, which, now a days, even with different shards, it is very hard to find a location to place even a small house, let alone a Guild Castle.
Other than that, any major MMO, since FF XI, has been instanced, one way or another. If not just for performance, than also space.
Non-Instanced housing, is not going to happen. [snip]
Hey, hey, hey... kids, you need to play nice now! But, I don't think non-instanced housing is a fact of performance. It's a problem with space, Tamriel is large, but not large enough for 700,000+ players to build their own separate houses. The servers could handle it, other than if you are in Cyrodill. I just don't want the world to become filled with player housing and that stop newer players from having the same benefits as the older players. Everyone is equal in an MMO and needs to be treated as such
hehe, can we drop the '700,000+' players bit....we all know there is nowhere near that number actually playing anymore or likely to ever again. More like 400k Max.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:36PMBeing First is not the prize, it just mean's everyone can stab you in the back.0 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »This is the last time I will mention this, non-instanced housing CAN be done. It's been done in major MMOs in the past, some as much as like 15 years old. IT CAN BE DONE.
Now, it's just extremely more feasible and resource effective to implement instanced housing. Even a pseudo version of non-instanced and instanced would be fine with me. Either way, housing and furniture and guild halls and guild cities would add so much more to the game if they used even just one of these ideas let alone all of them.
I think your deffinition of "Major" may be a little off. I can think of 2. Starwars Galaxies, which had plenty of different planets, with lots of empty space, but that game is shut down.
Ultima Online, which, now a days, even with different shards, it is very hard to find a location to place even a small house, let alone a Guild Castle.
Other than that, any major MMO, since FF XI, has been instanced, one way or another. If not just for performance, than also space.
Non-Instanced housing, is not going to happen. [snip]
Hey, hey, hey... kids, you need to play nice now! But, I don't think non-instanced housing is a fact of performance. It's a problem with space, Tamriel is large, but not large enough for 700,000+ players to build their own separate houses. The servers could handle it, other than if you are in Cyrodill. I just don't want the world to become filled with player housing and that stop newer players from having the same benefits as the older players. Everyone is equal in an MMO and needs to be treated as such
hehe, can we drop the '700,000+' players bit....we all know there is nowhere near that number actually playing anymore or likely to ever again. More like 400k Max.
I can always hope lol I want this game to get bigger and survive, I LOVE this game... I'm going to MARRY this game... you can't judge me for LOVE xD
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:37PM2 -
HydroCanuck✭✭diabeticDemon18 wrote: »diabeticDemon18 wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »This is the last time I will mention this, non-instanced housing CAN be done. It's been done in major MMOs in the past, some as much as like 15 years old. IT CAN BE DONE.
Now, it's just extremely more feasible and resource effective to implement instanced housing. Even a pseudo version of non-instanced and instanced would be fine with me. Either way, housing and furniture and guild halls and guild cities would add so much more to the game if they used even just one of these ideas let alone all of them.
I think your deffinition of "Major" may be a little off. I can think of 2. Starwars Galaxies, which had plenty of different planets, with lots of empty space, but that game is shut down.
Ultima Online, which, now a days, even with different shards, it is very hard to find a location to place even a small house, let alone a Guild Castle.
Other than that, any major MMO, since FF XI, has been instanced, one way or another. If not just for performance, than also space.
Non-Instanced housing, is not going to happen. [snip]
Hey, hey, hey... kids, you need to play nice now! But, I don't think non-instanced housing is a fact of performance. It's a problem with space, Tamriel is large, but not large enough for 700,000+ players to build their own separate houses. The servers could handle it, other than if you are in Cyrodill. I just don't want the world to become filled with player housing and that stop newer players from having the same benefits as the older players. Everyone is equal in an MMO and needs to be treated as such
hehe, can we drop the '700,000+' players bit....we all know there is nowhere near that number actually playing anymore or likely to ever again. More like 400k Max.
I can always hope lol I want this game to get bigger and survive, I LOVE this game... I'm going to MARRY this game... you can't judge me for LOVE xD
And there's more than one Mega Server, right? I imagine NA has one, Europe has one, Asia has one, and possibly Australia? Or do we all play on the same servers?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2025 4:38PM0