MornaBaine wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

Shroud of the Avatar even has multiple different types of housing from Tree houses to Caves to Castles......they even have 3 tier Basements you can attach to your property. All furniture is movable and all that as you'd expect from the Daddy of MMO Housing (Richard Garriott and Ultima Online).
ESO will ONLY EVER have Instanced housing at best, the coding and mega-server wont allow anything else. This also means no vendors or shops on your plot to sell your wares.

Oh did I mention that SotA is only in Alpha testing phase and they have housing???!!!??

C'mon Zenimax....keep up...

So I went and took a look at this game. Looks pretty awesome EXCEPT I think the characters themselves are pretty poorly done. Way too cartoony and flat. They fix that though and I might not be able to resist. Awesome sandbox elements that need to be HERE!

Sindala wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

Shroud of the Avatar even has multiple different types of housing from Tree houses to Caves to Castles......they even have 3 tier Basements you can attach to your property. All furniture is movable and all that as you'd expect from the Daddy of MMO Housing (Richard Garriott and Ultima Online).
ESO will ONLY EVER have Instanced housing at best, the coding and mega-server wont allow anything else. This also means no vendors or shops on your plot to sell your wares.

Oh did I mention that SotA is only in Alpha testing phase and they have housing???!!!??

C'mon Zenimax....keep up...

So I went and took a look at this game. Looks pretty awesome EXCEPT I think the characters themselves are pretty poorly done. Way too cartoony and flat. They fix that though and I might not be able to resist. Awesome sandbox elements that need to be HERE!

Remember while judging that game that it's in Alpha testing. Way to early to add cosmetic bit like pretty char models, their just getting the basics working correctly at moment (yes the actual players are helping to build the game by testing Alpha builds) All the graphics adds will come in Beta test.

.......bit like this game should have done.......

HydroCanuck wrote: »

I think instanced housing is probably more likely. Systems where you can put houses where ever you want, like UO and Galaxies, has to be murder on the servers.

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »

kyrowski wrote: »

I like the idea of building on your own plot of land and creating your home from scratch but I've tried this in 2 different games - SWG and Mortal Online. In SWG you could build pretty much anywhere outside of an existing city and you ended up with swathes of ghost towns.

In Mortal Online the number of available plots were limited meaning newcomers found it hard to find a plot for their house.

The level of detail needed to craft in these games was incredible

If there could be a middle ground between the 2 I would love to have a builder skill set and gather for & build a house when I really don't want to quest

To avoid the ghost towns they have to make reasons for players to visit these player areas/cities. Players must have a need to visit their homes and structures. One simple way is to allow them to farm materials for crafting. Doesn't have to be an island full of every material available but enough to make it worth-while. Giving players bonuses upon entering their homes and such is good reason to visit. There are plenty of things the devs could do to avoid the ghost towns.

I agree but I feel like farming materials at your house could be a little too much. Buffs would be easy enough, as well as better storage I think would help draw people to their house but they still need to have limited storage so the bank is still necessary and they can't store everything in their house. Devs could easily think of something that's not OP that would invite people home

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »

kyrowski wrote: »

I like the idea of building on your own plot of land and creating your home from scratch but I've tried this in 2 different games - SWG and Mortal Online. In SWG you could build pretty much anywhere outside of an existing city and you ended up with swathes of ghost towns.

In Mortal Online the number of available plots were limited meaning newcomers found it hard to find a plot for their house.

The level of detail needed to craft in these games was incredible

If there could be a middle ground between the 2 I would love to have a builder skill set and gather for & build a house when I really don't want to quest

To avoid the ghost towns they have to make reasons for players to visit these player areas/cities. Players must have a need to visit their homes and structures. One simple way is to allow them to farm materials for crafting. Doesn't have to be an island full of every material available but enough to make it worth-while. Giving players bonuses upon entering their homes and such is good reason to visit. There are plenty of things the devs could do to avoid the ghost towns.

I agree but I feel like farming materials at your house could be a little too much. Buffs would be easy enough, as well as better storage I think would help draw people to their house but they still need to have limited storage so the bank is still necessary and they can't store everything in their house. Devs could easily think of something that's not OP that would invite people home

If players were to have their homes in the open world and not instanced, I at first thought of something along the lines of a weekly tax (very small amount, mind you) to a somehow-always-present-at-the-door-when-I-return NPC or mailbox in order to keep your home, otherwise it would be reclaimed by whatever government is in control there if payment was delayed for more than two weeks. But that, while it would seem like a basic enough mechanism in order to reduce the amount of ghost-towns in-game, seems like a punishment rather than a reward for actually attaining the home(s). That and it seems like it would effectively force players to come on every few weeks or they would loose their holding(s)....it would prove exceedingly infuriating if one was unable to pay the taxes ahead of time.

If there were small things like a passive 'homely feeling' bonus of some sort or even extra storage space would be enough to coerce players to visit, then I suppose that would lessen the blow. But one should be exceedingly careful on how things like mats and materials are handled in order to not detract from actual towns, as mentioned. Perhaps adding more passives like increased stamina and speed regeneration for both you and your mount, more inspiration gained from deconstruction or even the passive that is essentially the equivalent of having the training trait on all of your gear.

But material things like unique feeding materials for the mounts (that maybe should be able to be sold to others), a small garden for a few select alchemy reagents or cloth material would also suffice.

I like the idea of mount feeding materials, that wouldn't stop too much town travel, also it would provide a little extra incentive to visit your house and keep it up and running. I feel like player housing HAS to have at least a little bit of extra storage space, that's the main reason I want a house. I want multiple containers so I can organize my gear in special ways again. Maybe have a "house storage" number that you can't surpass, but as many containers as you want in the Given spots? All containers then would be taken into the "house storage" number, but each container would be able to hold it's own things.

Another thing that I feel HAS to happen, because I loved it in Skyrim, is mannequins/sword/shield mounts. I want to be able to display all of my cool gear I've gotten over the time I've leveled and maybe have a quick set of gear swapping. Like, if I'm feeling like a mage at the moment, I'll go in and get my most BA light armor set on and wield my staves... but if I'm feeling like a barbarian, I'll go in and find my strongest heavy armor and axe to chop the little baddies up in. It could be fun, and would help RPers have a place to store various costumes so they could be prepared for any scene

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

I also don't see why instanced housing would bother so many people. To me, it's a much better alternative to clogging up the landscape/cities with player housing. If it was like that, there is a very limited range of places for people to build houses and I could see it being very difficult being a new player and trying to find a place to put your house

eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »

I know a lot of yall have suggested guild cities and I admit I haven't read too far into those because player cities, let alone a single guild city, sounds pretty ambitious and a lot of work. So, I do not know if the idea found here within these paragraphs has been mentioned already and I apologize if it has.

But why not re-think the way mmorpg's handle town hubs, quest hubs, cities, villages, etc. Let's say everyone begins the game at lvl 1 and they are strung along to their first town/quest hub and the town has everything a low lvl player would need; merchants, vendors, crafting stations, mailboxes, banks, auctions houses, and whatever else comes with these initial towns.

Now let's say a bunch of players have ventured into the game's world and have leveled to say somewhere around midcap. What if the game allowed players to buy plots of land to build non-instanced housing from a selected area the game has designated. What if the game was designed so that these areas could 'level' up so-to-say. These player 'cities' could have tiers based on the amount of activity within them. Maybe if 10 people build homes here the area opens up merchants. 20 people build homes and crafting stations open up. 30 people build homes and other NPC homes are made along with mailboxes and bankers and auction houses open up, 40 homes and quest NPC givers open up. 50 people build homes and now...

Mmo's already have a pseudo linear quest structure in most cases to where you are handheld along city to city. Most of these scenarios involve NPC towns where none of the players live or where the players live but are cooped up in one inn with a door that leads to 100 player-made homes. Imagine going to a city where actual players are housed, farming on their lands. Who are planting dragonthorn seeds in their garden so they can harvest them for alchemy. Instead of NPC's doing this it's actual players populating the cities. And if the player is offline then their hirelings are attending to their homes.

MornaBaine wrote: »

eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »

I know a lot of yall have suggested guild cities and I admit I haven't read too far into those because player cities, let alone a single guild city, sounds pretty ambitious and a lot of work. So, I do not know if the idea found here within these paragraphs has been mentioned already and I apologize if it has.

But why not re-think the way mmorpg's handle town hubs, quest hubs, cities, villages, etc. Let's say everyone begins the game at lvl 1 and they are strung along to their first town/quest hub and the town has everything a low lvl player would need; merchants, vendors, crafting stations, mailboxes, banks, auctions houses, and whatever else comes with these initial towns.

Now let's say a bunch of players have ventured into the game's world and have leveled to say somewhere around midcap. What if the game allowed players to buy plots of land to build non-instanced housing from a selected area the game has designated. What if the game was designed so that these areas could 'level' up so-to-say. These player 'cities' could have tiers based on the amount of activity within them. Maybe if 10 people build homes here the area opens up merchants. 20 people build homes and crafting stations open up. 30 people build homes and other NPC homes are made along with mailboxes and bankers and auction houses open up, 40 homes and quest NPC givers open up. 50 people build homes and now...

Mmo's already have a pseudo linear quest structure in most cases to where you are handheld along city to city. Most of these scenarios involve NPC towns where none of the players live or where the players live but are cooped up in one inn with a door that leads to 100 player-made homes. Imagine going to a city where actual players are housed, farming on their lands. Who are planting dragonthorn seeds in their garden so they can harvest them for alchemy. Instead of NPC's doing this it's actual players populating the cities. And if the player is offline then their hirelings are attending to their homes.

I really like this idea. But I think it may have 2 things against it. First there's always the possibility it COULD turn into a ghost town. If the game population were much more robust than it is I could maybe see it happening. Secondly, there's only so much real estate in the game so then if the population DOES become more robust you run into the opposite problem, running out of land. This is why I kind of feel guild cities and player housing SHOULD be instanced.I know that means that only you and those you invite to group with you to go there are ever going to see it but that's enough for me.

Now a variation on your idea that MIGHT be doable is setting aside land that, while instanced, you can still see from each town at some point, like the way when you cross a bridge sometimes and thus leave one zone for another. So you see the little hamlet across the bridge and at the midpoint of the bridge you get a loading screen and then you are in the player town. Only instead of it being a GUILD city it is the homes of individual players who have chosen to purchase land in that particular area and build on it. Then the other options could come in depending on population as you've spoken of.

Of course a guild COULD buy up all the land in a certain area and thus you would then have de facto guild cities.

What do you think?

MornaBaine wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »

I know a lot of yall have suggested guild cities and I admit I haven't read too far into those because player cities, let alone a single guild city, sounds pretty ambitious and a lot of work. So, I do not know if the idea found here within these paragraphs has been mentioned already and I apologize if it has.

But why not re-think the way mmorpg's handle town hubs, quest hubs, cities, villages, etc. Let's say everyone begins the game at lvl 1 and they are strung along to their first town/quest hub and the town has everything a low lvl player would need; merchants, vendors, crafting stations, mailboxes, banks, auctions houses, and whatever else comes with these initial towns.

Now let's say a bunch of players have ventured into the game's world and have leveled to say somewhere around midcap. What if the game allowed players to buy plots of land to build non-instanced housing from a selected area the game has designated. What if the game was designed so that these areas could 'level' up so-to-say. These player 'cities' could have tiers based on the amount of activity within them. Maybe if 10 people build homes here the area opens up merchants. 20 people build homes and crafting stations open up. 30 people build homes and other NPC homes are made along with mailboxes and bankers and auction houses open up, 40 homes and quest NPC givers open up. 50 people build homes and now...

Mmo's already have a pseudo linear quest structure in most cases to where you are handheld along city to city. Most of these scenarios involve NPC towns where none of the players live or where the players live but are cooped up in one inn with a door that leads to 100 player-made homes. Imagine going to a city where actual players are housed, farming on their lands. Who are planting dragonthorn seeds in their garden so they can harvest them for alchemy. Instead of NPC's doing this it's actual players populating the cities. And if the player is offline then their hirelings are attending to their homes.

I really like this idea. But I think it may have 2 things against it. First there's always the possibility it COULD turn into a ghost town. If the game population were much more robust than it is I could maybe see it happening. Secondly, there's only so much real estate in the game so then if the population DOES become more robust you run into the opposite problem, running out of land. This is why I kind of feel guild cities and player housing SHOULD be instanced.I know that means that only you and those you invite to group with you to go there are ever going to see it but that's enough for me.

Now a variation on your idea that MIGHT be doable is setting aside land that, while instanced, you can still see from each town at some point, like the way when you cross a bridge sometimes and thus leave one zone for another. So you see the little hamlet across the bridge and at the midpoint of the bridge you get a loading screen and then you are in the player town. Only instead of it being a GUILD city it is the homes of individual players who have chosen to purchase land in that particular area and build on it. Then the other options could come in depending on population as you've spoken of.

Of course a guild COULD buy up all the land in a certain area and thus you would then have de facto guild cities.

What do you think?

I like both the ideas but I really don't like the idea that we may run out of land :-S All of the new players would be super excited to buy a house and then they get to the city and the game says "Sorry, early bird gets the worm." That wouldn't be... fair... as cliché as that is lol BUT Morna, I think your idea would be cool but how would the game decide to put you in a particular instance? There would theoretically just be a bunch of different instances of the same area that has, picking a random number, 50 player houses available. If a new player walked in, there are other instances with the same amount of houses available so how would they ever know what instance they're being put into?

Fair point. But it's doable. For instance, in Age of Conan guild cities for Stygia were "located" in the Purple Lotus Swamp. There was space for, I think, 5 guild cities so you shared a common harvesting and mobs area outside your city walls with other guilds (interesting in an open world PvP server, let me tell ya!). Now when you went to the caravan master to enter the Purple Lotus swamp you got an option menu pop up that let you choose either the regular world Purple Lotus swamp which was just another questing/harvesting area OR you could choose your guild city. Easy peasy.

HydroCanuck wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

eric22santiago_ESO wrote: »

I know a lot of yall have suggested guild cities and I admit I haven't read too far into those because player cities, let alone a single guild city, sounds pretty ambitious and a lot of work. So, I do not know if the idea found here within these paragraphs has been mentioned already and I apologize if it has.

But why not re-think the way mmorpg's handle town hubs, quest hubs, cities, villages, etc. Let's say everyone begins the game at lvl 1 and they are strung along to their first town/quest hub and the town has everything a low lvl player would need; merchants, vendors, crafting stations, mailboxes, banks, auctions houses, and whatever else comes with these initial towns.

Now let's say a bunch of players have ventured into the game's world and have leveled to say somewhere around midcap. What if the game allowed players to buy plots of land to build non-instanced housing from a selected area the game has designated. What if the game was designed so that these areas could 'level' up so-to-say. These player 'cities' could have tiers based on the amount of activity within them. Maybe if 10 people build homes here the area opens up merchants. 20 people build homes and crafting stations open up. 30 people build homes and other NPC homes are made along with mailboxes and bankers and auction houses open up, 40 homes and quest NPC givers open up. 50 people build homes and now...

Mmo's already have a pseudo linear quest structure in most cases to where you are handheld along city to city. Most of these scenarios involve NPC towns where none of the players live or where the players live but are cooped up in one inn with a door that leads to 100 player-made homes. Imagine going to a city where actual players are housed, farming on their lands. Who are planting dragonthorn seeds in their garden so they can harvest them for alchemy. Instead of NPC's doing this it's actual players populating the cities. And if the player is offline then their hirelings are attending to their homes.

I really like this idea. But I think it may have 2 things against it. First there's always the possibility it COULD turn into a ghost town. If the game population were much more robust than it is I could maybe see it happening. Secondly, there's only so much real estate in the game so then if the population DOES become more robust you run into the opposite problem, running out of land. This is why I kind of feel guild cities and player housing SHOULD be instanced.I know that means that only you and those you invite to group with you to go there are ever going to see it but that's enough for me.

Now a variation on your idea that MIGHT be doable is setting aside land that, while instanced, you can still see from each town at some point, like the way when you cross a bridge sometimes and thus leave one zone for another. So you see the little hamlet across the bridge and at the midpoint of the bridge you get a loading screen and then you are in the player town. Only instead of it being a GUILD city it is the homes of individual players who have chosen to purchase land in that particular area and build on it. Then the other options could come in depending on population as you've spoken of.

Of course a guild COULD buy up all the land in a certain area and thus you would then have de facto guild cities.

What do you think?

I like both the ideas but I really don't like the idea that we may run out of land :-S All of the new players would be super excited to buy a house and then they get to the city and the game says "Sorry, early bird gets the worm." That wouldn't be... fair... as cliché as that is lol BUT Morna, I think your idea would be cool but how would the game decide to put you in a particular instance? There would theoretically just be a bunch of different instances of the same area that has, picking a random number, 50 player houses available. If a new player walked in, there are other instances with the same amount of houses available so how would they ever know what instance they're being put into?

A player could be given a list of instances, and show how much housing is available in each one. That way, if you want to be neighbors with a friend, or Guild mates, they just have to tell you which housing instance they are in.

Sindala wrote: »

You can all say what you like and word it however you like but it's all the same.

We want ESO housing just like Skyrim housing was.

HydroCanuck wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

You can all say what you like and word it however you like but it's all the same.

We want ESO housing just like Skyrim housing was.

For the mechanics of building your house, yeah I can agree with that.

K. So go play Skyrim. Again, you can't build an MMO, the way you build a single player game. It's computer science, not rocket science.

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

HydroCanuck wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

You can all say what you like and word it however you like but it's all the same.

We want ESO housing just like Skyrim housing was.

For the mechanics of building your house, yeah I can agree with that.

K. So go play Skyrim. Again, you can't build an MMO, the way you build a single player game. It's computer science, not rocket science.

You're right. No, you can't make an MMO the way you built a single player game but you can add modules that strongly resemble those aspects from a single player game. Also computer science, not rocket science.

HydroCanuck wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

For Housing go look at Istaria, that game has non-instanced housing that you build yourself using a massive crafting system. Oh and it's 14 years old. Don't tell me They can't, the fact is they cant be bothered these days...

Yeah. UO has the same system. But UO looks like ***, graphically. Is that how you want ESO to look?