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Is Reflective Scales overpowered?
Stash
✭✭
This is an opinion poll. The title says it all.
Edited by Stash on November 20, 2014 10:26PM Is Reflective Scales overpowered? 133 votes
Yes
62%
83 votes
No
37%
50 votes
2
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TheLaw✭✭✭✭YesIt's pretty obvious that it is. If a spell reflects ALL projectiles then it should have a limit to how many it can reflect....-= Shahrzad the Great |Sorc| =-6
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Suntzu1414✭✭✭Yesreflective scales.
reflect everything...not just what it should.
Kill Well
STDC - NB VR15 - Khajit - DW / S+B / Bow
DC - NB VR 15 - Wood Elf - S+B / Resto
DC - TP VR 15 - Brenton - Resto / Dual Wield
DC - SC VR 12 - High Elf - Desto / Dual Wield
EP - TP VR 5 - Nord - 2hd / 2hd
EP - DK 20 - Imperial - S+B / Desto / Bow2 -
Orchish✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoI play melee (lol i know right?) in a range dominated cyrodiil with lethal arrows in my face and crystal fragments up my arse i would say for a class with no range abilities of it's own i would say not.
6 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Noits necessary in order to play melee, but i do agree they should not reflect light/heavy attacks at least.Edited by tplink3r1 on November 21, 2014 2:21AMVR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer4 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭YesIt should reflect spells and only spells, not bow attacks, light or heavy attacks, and for a shorter duration.Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!6
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lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesAs long as there is an ultimate that you can reflect with a skill that doesn't cost ultimate, it is op.6 -
david.haypreub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesClearly OP. Compare the sword and board skill Defensive Posture: it only reflects one spell, and it has to be a spell projectile rather than a physical projectile like an arrow. Scales on the other hand reflects ALL projectiles of all types... it can be literally dozens of them. Kind of insane really.
I think they either need to change Scales either to reflect only one type of projectile (spell or physical), OR to change Scales to reflect only the next projectile. But having it reflect not just one but all projectiles of all types is just really overkill.
Templars are 'just slower... by design'
Yes, Gina actually said that (at least regarding Rushed Ceremony) right here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p24
VR 16 Templar (retired until Templars get fixed)
VR 16 Sorcerer
38 Nightblade
24 DK10 -
guybrushtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭YesI play melee (lol i know right?) in a range dominated cyrodiil with lethal arrows in my face and crystal fragments up my arse i would say for a class with no range abilities of it's own i would say not.
Conveniently, the best ranged abilities aren't class skills anyway, so that really isn't an excuse for DKs to get insane defenses against ranged.4 -
Morvul✭✭✭✭✭Yesit's a similar problem to the pre-nerf Sorcerer bolt escape:
Scales is fine when used from time to time. it is a problem when it is constantly active...8 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭YesEclipse doesn't reflect physical attacks (but can reflect melee spells), affects only one target (can't flappybird and laugh at an unlimited number of enemy archers/mages), can be broken and doesn't work if the target has CC immunity. Compare with flappybird. Balance???
On the other hand, against DKs who don't use Immovable Eclipse can be quite hilarious when they charge in with flappybird and die from all the amplified Snipes counter-reflected back to them.3 -
Thechemicals✭✭✭✭✭NoSeems the issue is brought up again now that snipe is popular. Dragon scales is fine.Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h
Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant6 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YesIt should have a limit. Maybe the first 4 projectiles but not everything for a set duration that they DK can literally just spam every 4 seconds. They are invulnerable as long as they keep their distance and can sustain magicka. If my nightblade could do that I would never die. I would just use my magicka for reflective scales and spam lethal arrow. It's not just OP it's practically impossible not to execute correctly.:trollin:2 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭YesAnd it most certainly should not nullify Ultimates, i.e. Meteor and Overload.5
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Loneshard✭✭✭YesThey should reflect only magical or physical Projectiles, not both!
This is totally illogical..
The other abilities in the game, reflect or absorb only magical or physical projectiles, just DK's do both!
And they should maybe be nerfed like bolt escape,
with the Magicka cost..
Edited by Loneshard on November 23, 2014 7:50AM2 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoI play all the classes, reflective shield has it's equivalants, and can be bypassed, I remember a list of abilities that bypass Reflective shield on these forums, it was fairly sunstantive.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule2 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭YesAlexDougherty wrote: »I play all the classes, reflective shield has it's equivalants, and can be bypassed, I remember a list of abilities that bypass Reflective shield on these forums, it was fairly sunstantive.
Do tell me what these equivalents are.
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AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoThatHappyCat wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »I play all the classes, reflective shield has it's equivalants, and can be bypassed, I remember a list of abilities that bypass Reflective shield on these forums, it was fairly sunstantive.
Do tell me what these equivalents are.
Ok just reread the skills maybe Reflective scales isn't quite as balanced as I thought.
Templar's Eclipse is single target spells, so Reflective scales will be better.
Sorc's Conjured Ward requires summons, and merely shares the damage.
And Nightblade doesn't have one at all.
Damn, I misremembered, sorry.
Reflective scales still has vulberabilities, but it does look like it is uniquely overdone.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule4 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThatHappyCat wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »I play all the classes, reflective shield has it's equivalants, and can be bypassed, I remember a list of abilities that bypass Reflective shield on these forums, it was fairly sunstantive.
Do tell me what these equivalents are.
Ha ha, I know, there is none. Scales can reflect an infinite amount of projectiles, over 4 seconds.
Closest you get is Defensive Posture, that reflects or absorbs one single spell projectile.
Templar's Eclipse is a single target debuff...not even in the same category.
That argument, about how every class can "reflect" died around the same time as patch 1.5.2 launched.
Issue (or envy) with Scales is obviously up and running again due to the broken Snipe spam in PvP. Scales is a necessity for close range combat or front-line fighting at the moment. Other classes are screwed. But gimping Scales, to make Snipe monkey spam even more easy-mode, is a horrible solution.2 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭YesEclipse has one major weakness Reflective Scales doesn't have: it can be broken and does nothing on enemies with CC immunity. In fact this weakness makes Eclipse practically useless in PvP.
I don't think Conjured Ward does what you think it does, Alex. It's just a damage shield in the same vein as Sun Shield, Annulment and Obsidian Shield. It doesn't "share" damage with anything and doesn't require summons either.
There is nothing like Reflective Scales available to any other class. The closest is Defensive Posture and that only works for a single spell projectile per cast.Edited by ThatHappyCat on November 23, 2014 3:29PM1 -
Auber✭✭NoOf course not. The skill has an extremely conspicuous animation of dragon wings wrapping around the player. Unless you're blind or stupid, you should know better than to kill yourself on them.5 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭YesOf course not. The skill has an extremely conspicuous animation of dragon wings wrapping around the player. Unless you're blind or stupid, you should know better than to kill yourself on them.
Instead of reflect, think of Reflective Scales as granting immunity instead. Grants immunity to all spell and physical projectiles (and a few non-projectiles) for 4 seconds.
You seem to think people consider Scales OP because they kill themselves on it. No, people think Scales is OP because it makes the DK invulnerable to most ranged attacks (that matter)
Edited by ThatHappyCat on November 23, 2014 5:26PM4 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Noi myself just get out a melee weapon and charge them, so no. i dont think its OP.
still, i understand why people think its OP. one player reflecting the attacks of an entire group is a bit......... crazy.
if it is ever changed, it should only reflect spells. thats what i think1 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭Yesi myself just get out a melee weapon and charge them, so no. i dont think its OP.
still, i understand why people think its OP. one player reflecting the attacks of an entire group is a bit......... crazy.
if it is ever changed, it should only reflect spells. thats what i think
To use a melee weapon effectively you need to be playing a stamina build. Not all classes have effective melee options for magicka builds.
(Well actually apart from Sorcerer all do.)
Edited by ThatHappyCat on November 23, 2014 5:29PM2 -
Auber✭✭NoThatHappyCat wrote: »Of course not. The skill has an extremely conspicuous animation of dragon wings wrapping around the player. Unless you're blind or stupid, you should know better than to kill yourself on them.
Instead of reflect, think of Reflective Scales as granting immunity instead. Grants immunity to all spell and physical projectiles (and a few non-projectiles) for 4 seconds.
You seem to think people consider Scales OP because they kill themselves on it. No, people think Scales is OP because it makes the DK invulnerable to most ranged attacks (that matter)
No, what I'm saying is that it's easy to tell when it's up. Just play defensively until he stops casting it or his magicka runs out from spamming it.3 -
ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭YesThatHappyCat wrote: »Of course not. The skill has an extremely conspicuous animation of dragon wings wrapping around the player. Unless you're blind or stupid, you should know better than to kill yourself on them.
Instead of reflect, think of Reflective Scales as granting immunity instead. Grants immunity to all spell and physical projectiles (and a few non-projectiles) for 4 seconds.
You seem to think people consider Scales OP because they kill themselves on it. No, people think Scales is OP because it makes the DK invulnerable to most ranged attacks (that matter)
No, what I'm saying is that it's easy to tell when it's up. Just play defensively until he stops casting it or his magicka runs out from spamming it.
Doesn't change the fact that this skill allows DKs to close in on an indefinite number of ranged attackers with little risk to themselves (unless they don't use Immovable and a Templar casts Eclipse on them, heh). Combined with the DK's arsenal of AoE CCs and damage spells, you can never afford to ignore even a lone enemy DK in your ranks.
Remember, Cyrodiil isn't about 1v1s.2 -
NoUntil I don't have 20 snipes coming at me all at once scales needs to stay the same. There would be no defense against snipe with out scales. And mages fury doesn't get reflectedEdited by Gogog Bloodthroat on November 23, 2014 7:04PMI,Gogog, the Bloodthroat. Hail Gzoroth!5
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ThatHappyCat✭✭✭✭✭YesGogog Bloodthroat wrote: »Until I don't have 20 snipes coming at me all at once scales needs to stay the same. There would be no defense against snipe with out scales. And mages fury doesn't get reflected
That would sound more convincing if flappybird wasn't available to 1/4 classes. As a Templar I don't seem to have as much problem with Snipe as flappybird supporters seem to have... I wonder why.
Maybe because I don't rambo into large groups of enemies? Because that's generally the only situation when you'd be sniped by a dozen people at once, by breaking from your ranks and making yourself an obvious target. Essentially you're saying that without flappybird you can no longer rambo. I fail to see how that is a problem.
Mage's Fury is an execute, its damage is otherwise pitiful. If you're getting killed by Mage's Fury alone then you have issues.
Edited by ThatHappyCat on November 23, 2014 7:18PM5 -
Sacadon✭✭✭✭✭YesMy response was restricted to scales only, NOT whether they are offset/balanced by other DK abilities. DKs go down just like the other classes if you have learned how. So hope the DKs keep them.Edited by Sacadon on November 23, 2014 8:03PM1 -
Dyride✭✭✭✭✭NoMy main pvp is on a Sorc, so I have been put on my but more than once by my own C-Frag. I don't think it is OP, maybe some slight nerf as far as spammability but I wouldn't trust ZOS with that responsibility. I would much rather have the Snipe spam culled.
I still don't have too much trouble against DKs but they can wreck you if you don't have at least a few skills to compensate (Curse, Fury, Resto/Destro channel hvy attack).V Є H Є M Є И C Є
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BEZDNA✭✭✭✭NoReflective Scales is the ONLY thing which saves Cyrodiil from becoming TOTALLY Achersland! I would rather change reflect from 1s/1h to reflect bow attacks too!5