Is Reflective Scales overpowered?

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yes

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

Until I don't have 20 snipes coming at me all at once scales needs to stay the same. There would be no defense against snipe with out scales. And mages fury doesn't get reflected

Welcome to how all three classes other than DKs feel. It sure sucks to be anyone other than a DK.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Yes

Can someone of the people who voted that it is not op pls explain to me why a skill that I can keep up untill infinity should be able to reflect one of the most expensive ultimates?

tplink3r1

No

it seens people want PvP to become ranged only.

ThatHappyCat

Yes

tplink3r1 wrote: »

it seens people want PvP to become ranged only.

It continues to astound me how DKs seem to think they're the only class in Cyrodiil.

Gogog Bloodthroat

No

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

Until I don't have 20 snipes coming at me all at once scales needs to stay the same. There would be no defense against snipe with out scales. And mages fury doesn't get reflected

That would sound more convincing if flappybird wasn't available to 1/4 classes. As a Templar I don't seem to have as much problem with Snipe as flappybird supporters seem to have... I wonder why.

Maybe because I don't rambo into large groups of enemies? Because that's generally the only situation when you'd be sniped by a dozen people at once, by breaking from your ranks and making yourself an obvious target. Essentially you're saying that without flappybird you can no longer rambo. I fail to see how that is a problem.

Mage's Fury is an execute, its damage is otherwise pitiful. If you're getting killed by Mage's Fury alone then you have issues.

Templars have more heals and blazing shield to defend against range attacks. Which templars spam the *** out blazing shield just as much as dks do scales. Blazing shields also blocks all damage just doesn't reflect it. NB have invisibility if they start getting sniped,sorcs can bolt away,what do dks have without scales if they start getting sniped and can't reach the archer? and what if not all players wanna hide behind a big group as the only way to survive the endless people who just spam snipe in cyrodiil? and Even being in a group most of the time it's dks at the front of those groups reflecting back everything.

Still_Mind

Yes

My first main is a Magicka DK, and I'd say it's pretty OP. Before, the "reflect EVERYTHING bug was balanced out by another bug, when Scales expended mana\stamina costs of the reflected skill.

Reflect *SHOULD* get fixed to work as advertised. Ergo, Reflect only spells.


However, looking at the greater picture, it's pretty much the only solid deterrent against bow abuse in Cyro, so I'm kind of on the fence here... Either make it work like Sorc teleport (slows mana regen\costs more as you spam it), and document the "reflect everything" paradigm, or fix it to work as advertised.

michaelb14a_ESO2

Yes

Still_Mind wrote: »

However, looking at the greater picture, it's pretty much the only solid deterrent against bow abuse in Cyro

Omg. People, please use logic. This DK only skill DOES NOTHING... ZERO..ZIP to "solidly deter bow abuse is Cyro". DK's are not the only class in the game, Jesus. Yes, if the skill was availiable to ALL classes, then that statement might be true.

In fact, it can be argued that the skill is actually so unbalanced that it makes "bow abuse" even worse for other classes, who when the OP flap flap spam goes up are the ones who get targeted instead.

Qolt

Yes

I think DK should take one of this role:
1) Tank with Reflective Scales and self-healing for protecting other group-members.
2) Good dd with fire DoT, fire attack skills and talons.

But now they play 2 of this roles.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Yes

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

Until I don't have 20 snipes coming at me all at once scales needs to stay the same. There would be no defense against snipe with out scales. And mages fury doesn't get reflected

That would sound more convincing if flappybird wasn't available to 1/4 classes. As a Templar I don't seem to have as much problem with Snipe as flappybird supporters seem to have... I wonder why.

Maybe because I don't rambo into large groups of enemies? Because that's generally the only situation when you'd be sniped by a dozen people at once, by breaking from your ranks and making yourself an obvious target. Essentially you're saying that without flappybird you can no longer rambo. I fail to see how that is a problem.

Mage's Fury is an execute, its damage is otherwise pitiful. If you're getting killed by Mage's Fury alone then you have issues.

Templars have more heals and blazing shield to defend against range attacks. Which templars spam the *** out blazing shield just as much as dks do scales. Blazing shields also blocks all damage just doesn't reflect it. NB have invisibility if they start getting sniped,sorcs can bolt away,what do dks have without scales if they start getting sniped and can't reach the archer? and what if not all players wanna hide behind a big group as the only way to survive the endless people who just spam snipe in cyrodiil? and Even being in a group most of the time it's dks at the front of those groups reflecting back everything.

1. Blazing shield only holds for ~800 damage, and even that only if you actually have decent health. Damage on shields is not mitigated by armor or blocking, although it will drain stamina, so those points aren't "worth" as much as health points. This is *dramatically* different from reflecting everything from everybody around you for a set duration. If templars want to endure multiple people who aren't completely gimped firing at them, they will have to spam it much more often, and they also won't be actually doing anything to them in that time, whereas the DK both reflects and is free to attack or heal while scales is up.
2. NBs can cloak out and run, theoretically if the skill doesn't bug out. Even if it works, cloaking doesn't kill anybody, whereas DKs can marrily swing away at their enemies while being immune to their attacks.
3. Sorcs can run away too, but it leaves them even more drained and doesn't actually hurt anyone.

And most of all, those "endless people spamming snipe" kill everybody else too. If you have "endless people spamming snipe" at you alone, you should have to either run or die, because that's what everybody else does in that situation. DKs should not be the only ones who can just wade in and not have to fear anything, not unless the other classes all get similar tools that allow them to do the same.

Gogog Bloodthroat

No

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

Until I don't have 20 snipes coming at me all at once scales needs to stay the same. There would be no defense against snipe with out scales. And mages fury doesn't get reflected

That would sound more convincing if flappybird wasn't available to 1/4 classes. As a Templar I don't seem to have as much problem with Snipe as flappybird supporters seem to have... I wonder why.

Maybe because I don't rambo into large groups of enemies? Because that's generally the only situation when you'd be sniped by a dozen people at once, by breaking from your ranks and making yourself an obvious target. Essentially you're saying that without flappybird you can no longer rambo. I fail to see how that is a problem.

Mage's Fury is an execute, its damage is otherwise pitiful. If you're getting killed by Mage's Fury alone then you have issues.

Templars have more heals and blazing shield to defend against range attacks. Which templars spam the *** out blazing shield just as much as dks do scales. Blazing shields also blocks all damage just doesn't reflect it. NB have invisibility if they start getting sniped,sorcs can bolt away,what do dks have without scales if they start getting sniped and can't reach the archer? and what if not all players wanna hide behind a big group as the only way to survive the endless people who just spam snipe in cyrodiil? and Even being in a group most of the time it's dks at the front of those groups reflecting back everything.

1. Blazing shield only holds for ~800 damage, and even that only if you actually have decent health. Damage on shields is not mitigated by armor or blocking, although it will drain stamina, so those points aren't "worth" as much as health points. This is *dramatically* different from reflecting everything from everybody around you for a set duration. If templars want to endure multiple people who aren't completely gimped firing at them, they will have to spam it much more often, and they also won't be actually doing anything to them in that time, whereas the DK both reflects and is free to attack or heal while scales is up.
2. NBs can cloak out and run, theoretically if the skill doesn't bug out. Even if it works, cloaking doesn't kill anybody, whereas DKs can marrily swing away at their enemies while being immune to their attacks.
3. Sorcs can run away too, but it leaves them even more drained and doesn't actually hurt anyone.

And most of all, those "endless people spamming snipe" kill everybody else too. If you have "endless people spamming snipe" at you alone, you should have to either run or die, because that's what everybody else does in that situation. DKs should not be the only ones who can just wade in and not have to fear anything, not unless the other classes all get similar tools that allow them to do the same.

What's the point of picking a specific class out of the 4 if every class has the same type of abilitys? If the other classes get a scales type move why not give dks ability to bolt away?or go invisible? Than no one can complain about not having a move another class has cause they didn't wanna pick that class.

Pyatra

Yes

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

Until I don't have 20 snipes coming at me all at once scales needs to stay the same. There would be no defense against snipe with out scales. And mages fury doesn't get reflected

That would sound more convincing if flappybird wasn't available to 1/4 classes. As a Templar I don't seem to have as much problem with Snipe as flappybird supporters seem to have... I wonder why.

Maybe because I don't rambo into large groups of enemies? Because that's generally the only situation when you'd be sniped by a dozen people at once, by breaking from your ranks and making yourself an obvious target. Essentially you're saying that without flappybird you can no longer rambo. I fail to see how that is a problem.

Mage's Fury is an execute, its damage is otherwise pitiful. If you're getting killed by Mage's Fury alone then you have issues.

Templars have more heals and blazing shield to defend against range attacks. Which templars spam the *** out blazing shield just as much as dks do scales. Blazing shields also blocks all damage just doesn't reflect it. NB have invisibility if they start getting sniped,sorcs can bolt away,what do dks have without scales if they start getting sniped and can't reach the archer? and what if not all players wanna hide behind a big group as the only way to survive the endless people who just spam snipe in cyrodiil? and Even being in a group most of the time it's dks at the front of those groups reflecting back everything.

1. Blazing shield only holds for ~800 damage, and even that only if you actually have decent health. Damage on shields is not mitigated by armor or blocking, although it will drain stamina, so those points aren't "worth" as much as health points. This is *dramatically* different from reflecting everything from everybody around you for a set duration. If templars want to endure multiple people who aren't completely gimped firing at them, they will have to spam it much more often, and they also won't be actually doing anything to them in that time, whereas the DK both reflects and is free to attack or heal while scales is up.
2. NBs can cloak out and run, theoretically if the skill doesn't bug out. Even if it works, cloaking doesn't kill anybody, whereas DKs can marrily swing away at their enemies while being immune to their attacks.
3. Sorcs can run away too, but it leaves them even more drained and doesn't actually hurt anyone.

And most of all, those "endless people spamming snipe" kill everybody else too. If you have "endless people spamming snipe" at you alone, you should have to either run or die, because that's what everybody else does in that situation. DKs should not be the only ones who can just wade in and not have to fear anything, not unless the other classes all get similar tools that allow them to do the same.

What's the point of picking a specific class out of the 4 if every class has the same type of abilitys? If the other classes get a scales type move why not give dks ability to bolt away?or go invisible? Than no one can complain about not having a move another class has cause they didn't wanna pick that class.

Actually a potion can make any class invisible.

Edit: Poor word choice.

Thechemicals

No

I could understand your complaints if the class was called squishyknight and wasnt inspired by some of the Dragon born elements. Sorry but nothing with "Dragon" in its title is going to lay down and die for you.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Yes

I didn't see a "kind of", so I put yes, however my real answer is only kind of a yes. I think it just should reflect damage only and not status effects as well.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yes

I think it should reflect physical and not spell projectiles.

If DKs want to be immune to everything ranged, let them also pop up Harness Magicka or Defensive Posture. There's no reason a single spell should reflect nearly everything: it should come at a greater cost.

LegendaryMage

Scales needs a penalty just like streak has. So does blazing shield (templar) and fear (NB). If you don't agree, I don't care. I'll still kill you anyway.

Bipolo

No

Make Defensive Posture reflect/absorb all projectiles, at least then every class has access to a "lesser" version of Reflective Scale. There is already a significant ranged overdose in Cyrodiil, geez...

david.haypreub18_ESO

Yes

Bipolo wrote: »

Make Defensive Posture reflect/absorb all projectiles, at least then every class has access to a "lesser" version of Reflective Scale. There is already a significant ranged overdose in Cyrodiil, geez...

I'd actually be fine with that too... the only problem is, Defensive Posture only reflects ONE projectile, rather than the literally dozens that Scales can reflect. So you'd have to change that part too.

Tonturri

Yes

I could understand your complaints if the class was called squishyknight and wasnt inspired by some of the Dragon born elements. Sorry but nothing with "Dragon" in its title is going to lay down and die for you.

So your entire argument is based on...the name of the class? Huh?

I'd actually be fine with that too... the only problem is, Defensive Posture only reflects ONE projectile, rather than the literally dozens that Scales can reflect. So you'd have to change that part too.

And then, I think, Cyrodiil would be saturated with shield users. Imo, it'd be better to change Reflective Scales to either 1) reflect only a certain number of spells or 2) Reflect up to a certain amount of projectile damage before breaking. That'd make it a little easier to balance. Then there's the problem of 1 being similar to or just being a better version of the 1h/shield line though, and 2 turning it into something near a templar thinger.

Perhaps a 40-60 magicka cost per reflection.

Gogog Bloodthroat

No

Pyatra wrote: »

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

Until I don't have 20 snipes coming at me all at once scales needs to stay the same. There would be no defense against snipe with out scales. And mages fury doesn't get reflected

That would sound more convincing if flappybird wasn't available to 1/4 classes. As a Templar I don't seem to have as much problem with Snipe as flappybird supporters seem to have... I wonder why.

Maybe because I don't rambo into large groups of enemies? Because that's generally the only situation when you'd be sniped by a dozen people at once, by breaking from your ranks and making yourself an obvious target. Essentially you're saying that without flappybird you can no longer rambo. I fail to see how that is a problem.

Mage's Fury is an execute, its damage is otherwise pitiful. If you're getting killed by Mage's Fury alone then you have issues.

Templars have more heals and blazing shield to defend against range attacks. Which templars spam the *** out blazing shield just as much as dks do scales. Blazing shields also blocks all damage just doesn't reflect it. NB have invisibility if they start getting sniped,sorcs can bolt away,what do dks have without scales if they start getting sniped and can't reach the archer? and what if not all players wanna hide behind a big group as the only way to survive the endless people who just spam snipe in cyrodiil? and Even being in a group most of the time it's dks at the front of those groups reflecting back everything.

1. Blazing shield only holds for ~800 damage, and even that only if you actually have decent health. Damage on shields is not mitigated by armor or blocking, although it will drain stamina, so those points aren't "worth" as much as health points. This is *dramatically* different from reflecting everything from everybody around you for a set duration. If templars want to endure multiple people who aren't completely gimped firing at them, they will have to spam it much more often, and they also won't be actually doing anything to them in that time, whereas the DK both reflects and is free to attack or heal while scales is up.
2. NBs can cloak out and run, theoretically if the skill doesn't bug out. Even if it works, cloaking doesn't kill anybody, whereas DKs can marrily swing away at their enemies while being immune to their attacks.
3. Sorcs can run away too, but it leaves them even more drained and doesn't actually hurt anyone.

And most of all, those "endless people spamming snipe" kill everybody else too. If you have "endless people spamming snipe" at you alone, you should have to either run or die, because that's what everybody else does in that situation. DKs should not be the only ones who can just wade in and not have to fear anything, not unless the other classes all get similar tools that allow them to do the same.

What's the point of picking a specific class out of the 4 if every class has the same type of abilitys? If the other classes get a scales type move why not give dks ability to bolt away?or go invisible? Than no one can complain about not having a move another class has cause they didn't wanna pick that class.

Actually a potion can make any class invisible.

Edit: Poor word choice.

I know that, but it's not as effective as having a skill to do it. I've seen NBs kill people without ever leaving stealth from timing that ability right. I do agree with the suggestion to change defense posture to reflect more than one give players who didn't wanna be a dragon knight some kind of reflect ability but reflect is one of dks major strengths so there shouldn't be a move in weapon tree than any class can use that will out perform a dks class ability. or make reflective scales like mage light where it stays on you and you have a chance to reflect projectiles instead of a 4sec guarantee

Still_Mind

Yes

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Bipolo wrote: »

Make Defensive Posture reflect/absorb all projectiles, at least then every class has access to a "lesser" version of Reflective Scale. There is already a significant ranged overdose in Cyrodiil, geez...

I'd actually be fine with that too... the only problem is, Defensive Posture only reflects ONE projectile, rather than the literally dozens that Scales can reflect. So you'd have to change that part too.

I believe that the whole reflecting business needs to be looked at. Spells listed as projectiles, physical projectiles counting as "spells" - although ZOE seems to be cool with that, after all, they did make Silver Bolts reflectable, and I do not believe that they'll limit Scales to spells only.

Defensive posture active definitely needs to be improved to be more in line with Scales. Duration-based, instead of just one projectile, more stuff it can reflect, etc.

Grim13

Yes

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Gogog Bloodthroat wrote: »

Until I don't have 20 snipes coming at me all at once scales needs to stay the same. There would be no defense against snipe with out scales. And mages fury doesn't get reflected

That would sound more convincing if flappybird wasn't available to 1/4 classes. As a Templar I don't seem to have as much problem with Snipe as flappybird supporters seem to have... I wonder why.

Maybe because I don't rambo into large groups of enemies? Because that's generally the only situation when you'd be sniped by a dozen people at once, by breaking from your ranks and making yourself an obvious target. Essentially you're saying that without flappybird you can no longer rambo. I fail to see how that is a problem.

Mage's Fury is an execute, its damage is otherwise pitiful. If you're getting killed by Mage's Fury alone then you have issues.

NB have invisibility if they start getting sniped

See... that's demonstrably untrue.

Every NB knows, hell, 3/4s of Cyrodiil know, that any "charged" or charging attacks break Cloak... if someone starts to snipe a NB and they use Cloak, it breaks it and hits anyway.

CapuchinSeven

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

it seens people want PvP to become ranged only.

It continues to astound me how DKs seem to think they're the only class in Cyrodiil.

Ha, yes. I was thinking the same thing.

Stannum

It's OP in combination with DK-class which has good melee-range defence, and good melee range attack skills.
It would be ok for week at melee range classes.

Thechemicals

No

As a DK anytime i encounter any class but a DK, the first thing that crosses my mind is "easy kill".

okraus

Yes

Basically the skill or the skill mechanic is not over powered but there have to be some limits.
First of all it should not be possible to chain-cast it. There should be a cooldown or something similar.
And secondly there should be a limit to the numbers of spells it can reflect. It is just ridiculous that 20 ppl can fire their stuff on one DK and everything gets reflected.

Gorthax

Yes

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I play all the classes, reflective shield has it's equivalants, and can be bypassed, I remember a list of abilities that bypass Reflective shield on these forums, it was fairly sunstantive.

not when you are a sorc and your damaging spells are PROJECTILES (staff user) and crushing shock (a BEAM --> NOT projectile) gets reflected! Or did you mean AoE? Because AoE are the most laughable skills in pvp

Thechemicals

No

Gorthax wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I play all the classes, reflective shield has it's equivalants, and can be bypassed, I remember a list of abilities that bypass Reflective shield on these forums, it was fairly sunstantive.

not when you are a sorc and your damaging spells are PROJECTILES (staff user) and crushing shock (a BEAM --> NOT projectile) gets reflected! Or did you mean AoE? Because AoE are the most laughable skills in pvp

Mage fury and curse and streak

ThatHappyCat

Yes

Gorthax wrote: »

Because AoE are the most laughable skills in pvp

Bat Swarm, Standard, Impulse, Negate, Unstable Wall...

Joy_Division

No

Welcome new forum member

You might want to make use of the "search" feature at the top right of the page as many topics have been already commented on quite frequently.

Cody

No

Gorthax wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I play all the classes, reflective shield has it's equivalants, and can be bypassed, I remember a list of abilities that bypass Reflective shield on these forums, it was fairly sunstantive.

not when you are a sorc and your damaging spells are PROJECTILES (staff user) and crushing shock (a BEAM --> NOT projectile) gets reflected! Or did you mean AoE? Because AoE are the most laughable skills in pvp

AOEs the most laughable skills in the game?


you do realize one of the reasons most of the population is a vampire, is because of the batswarm ultimate? which is an AOE.

batswarm is pretty deadly for a laughable skill...

so is banner..... and negate... Viel of blades.....

i could go on