Some Suggestions for Improving Vampires

MornaBaine · November 2014

Evandus wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

This is how she has looked the 2 times I have seen her while running this quest and this is how she has looked the 2 times my husband has run this quest:

That is a pretty far cry from THIS:

So I really want to know...HAS there been a change?

As I said. Her appearance has changed. I believe this is largely due to your referencing her in a manner akin to a Cyrodiilic Vamp. Congratulations...

To suggest I'm not paying attention is a rather immature argument. Those screenshots are from a new character I did the vamp quest with while level 7.

Please construct better counterarguments. My screenshots, and previous disagreements with your 'pretty' vampires in TES speak for themselves.

Yes, yes they do. Just not in the way you think.

MornaBaine · November 2014

Well I was actually curious enough to re-run this quest and yes, they've made Lamae look like a Stage 2 vampire just as they did with Verandis and every single other NPC vampire...once you know they are vampires. What has obviously happened is that the NPC vampires LOOK like vampires at the point you, the player, are supposed to discover they are vampires. So now, since you know right away that Lamae is a vampire, she looks like one right off the bat. But because discovering that Verandis and Heloise are vampires is supposed to come as a surprise AFTER you have already interacted with them, they look NORMAL... until the big reveal. It's a pretty cheesy plot device really. But the fact remains that even low level "nobody" vampires CAN AND DO look like MORTALS. Heloise was scratched by bloodfiends and she even kills and still looks NORMAL until YOU find out that she's a vampire. Most importantly, the quest dialogue with Lamae at the end of the quest remains completely the same. She tells you that YOUR kin mingle among the mortals and may be wearing rags or crowns. OBVIOUSLY this means they are HIDDEN. And the only way they CAN remain hidden among mortals is by having the ability to look NORMAL. Ergo, PLAYER vampires are NOT working as intended. ZoS needs to fix that. End of story.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

There are only 4 things I'd love to see happen with Vampires, the rest I could care less about.

1) Add the singe sound Skyrim has when you are a Vampire and step out into Daylight.

2) Add NPC interaction similar to other ES games, at least to the point that they mention you look sick, or should get out more, or w/e. Obviously ZoS isn't going to add the full realism where the entire town guards were hostile, but NPC's should at least acknowledge you look "off".

3) Finally fix 'Unnatural Resistance' for good. And I mean actually fix it not just say you fixed it. I've been stuck at 8 Health Regen since I contracted Vampirism back at level 17. Regardless of whether I have 0/1/2 points into that passive or stage 1/2/3/4 it never changes. It never changes with character level either. And if I add a set with +Health Regen it doesn't give me the appropriate reduced amount. Without the passive at Stage 4 you should have -75% Health regen. With 2/2 you should have -35% Health Regen. It starts at -75% and stays there and set bonuses get hit with -75% even with 2/2.

4) Give us a (required daily) charm spell that we can choose to perform that alters our looks so we don't appear to be a Vampire. Basically for those who hate the look of a Vampire but want the RP value of it they could perform a daily ritual, something that takes maybe 10min or less, that places a charm on the player to make them appear normal for 24 hours.

I don't understand 3. I go from about 20 odd at stage 4 to over 50 at stage 1. Now I make the numbers how I want them and because I like stage 4 I have made sure my Health Regen is pretty good.

I really don't understand the hate for the Vampire look. You are a monster, I glory in it. I wander into a dungeon and I am a worse monster than what's in there, I enjoy that.

MornaBaine · November 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

There are only 4 things I'd love to see happen with Vampires, the rest I could care less about.

1) Add the singe sound Skyrim has when you are a Vampire and step out into Daylight.

2) Add NPC interaction similar to other ES games, at least to the point that they mention you look sick, or should get out more, or w/e. Obviously ZoS isn't going to add the full realism where the entire town guards were hostile, but NPC's should at least acknowledge you look "off".

3) Finally fix 'Unnatural Resistance' for good. And I mean actually fix it not just say you fixed it. I've been stuck at 8 Health Regen since I contracted Vampirism back at level 17. Regardless of whether I have 0/1/2 points into that passive or stage 1/2/3/4 it never changes. It never changes with character level either. And if I add a set with +Health Regen it doesn't give me the appropriate reduced amount. Without the passive at Stage 4 you should have -75% Health regen. With 2/2 you should have -35% Health Regen. It starts at -75% and stays there and set bonuses get hit with -75% even with 2/2.

4) Give us a (required daily) charm spell that we can choose to perform that alters our looks so we don't appear to be a Vampire. Basically for those who hate the look of a Vampire but want the RP value of it they could perform a daily ritual, something that takes maybe 10min or less, that places a charm on the player to make them appear normal for 24 hours.

I don't understand 3. I go from about 20 odd at stage 4 to over 50 at stage 1. Now I make the numbers how I want them and because I like stage 4 I have made sure my Health Regen is pretty good.

I really don't understand the hate for the Vampire look. You are a monster, I glory in it. I wander into a dungeon and I am a worse monster than what's in there, I enjoy that.

Note my weary sigh. It's NOT a hatred of the latter Stage looks. Are they MY personal favorite? No. But I ABSOLUTELY do NOT want them to go away or be removed. As a roleplayer they serve some fantastic story telling purposes. What I WANT is for player vampires to conform with the LORE as it is presented WITHIN THE GAME ITSELF. Vampires are MEANT to be able to HIDE AMONG MORTALS. This is outright STATED by Lamae Bal (reference original post) and it is shown as being a FACT by AT LEAST TWO NPC vampires you encounter in the game. (See next post for update to Original Post)

chipputer · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

What has obviously happened is that the NPC vampires LOOK like vampires at the point you, the player, are supposed to discover they are vampires. So now, since you know right away that Lamae is a vampire, she looks like one right off the bat. But because discovering that Verandis and Heloise are vampires is supposed to come as a surprise AFTER you have already interacted with them, they look NORMAL... until the big reveal. It's a pretty cheesy plot device really.

Glad it took you this long to figure this simple plot device out, that pretty much every other person got right away.

But the fact remains that even low level "nobody" vampires CAN AND DO look like MORTALS.

No. No that fact doesn't remain. You just said it was a cheesy plot device. The only case where it's not explained away easily is Verandis, and, even then, it's safe to assume that he's been around far longer than our, comparably, infant vampire characters and has picked up tricks or, as theorized, is directly descended from Molag Bal.

The reason any of them even look similar to the player characters upon discovery is simply due to saving resources. Why design two or three different vampire looks when they can just use the same one, get the same point across, and move on with everyone's life and time?

MornaBaine · November 2014

I have updated the original post to add the information about Lamae Bal's changed appearance from normal mortal to Stage 2 vampire.

I have also added the following up date to the original post:

**UPDATING TO ADD ANOTHER EXAMPLE 11/20/14**
What may be the most clear cut example of the fact that vampires are SUPPOSED to be able to look COMPLETELY MORTAL is the case of Heloise Menoit, a healer you meet in Rivenspire in the 20's level range. She has been scratched or bitten BY BLOODFIENDS. Over the course of the questline she is preoccupied with "hunger" and gives several indicators that she is becoming either a vampire or a bloodfiend herself. Ultimately she attacks and kills members of a family you and she are trying to help. She has clearly already become a vampire when you find her with the dead bodies BUT SHE STILL LOOKS COMPLETELY MORTAL. Only AFTER, you the player, are SUPPOSED to discover that she is a vampire does she LOOK like one. Up to that point, even AFTER she has clearly transformed into a vampire and started killing, she still looks utterly mortal.
See video of the quest in question here for confirmation:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5SMkrjoi_PE#t=311

Now, obviously, this is a plot device and, frankly, a really poor one. It's being done so that when various vampires are "revealed" it's a surprise. But the problem here is that, again and again, we are shown that vampires CAN AND DO HIDE among mortals...and they do it by LOOKING MORTAL. Clearly, Stage 1 really should have a completely mortal appearance as, as Heloise PROVES, even lowly vampires like those turned by bloodfiends and NOT just special snowflakes like Verandis, can do this (look mortal) as a NATURAL part of their condition. It is therefore LORE that they can. To keep this ability from players is not only just petty but it's utterly illogical.

Nebthet78 · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Well I was actually curious enough to re-run this quest and yes, they've made Lamae look like a Stage 2 vampire just as they did with Verandis and every single other NPC vampire...once you know they are vampires. What has obviously happened is that the NPC vampires LOOK like vampires at the point you, the player, are supposed to discover they are vampires. So now, since you know right away that Lamae is a vampire, she looks like one right off the bat. But because discovering that Verandis and Heloise are vampires is supposed to come as a surprise AFTER you have already interacted with them, they look NORMAL... until the big reveal. It's a pretty cheesy plot device really. But the fact remains that even low level "nobody" vampires CAN AND DO look like MORTALS. Heloise was scratched by bloodfiends and she even kills and still looks NORMAL until YOU find out that she's a vampire. Most importantly, the quest dialogue with Lamae at the end of the quest remains completely the same. She tells you that YOUR kin mingle among the mortals and may be wearing rags or crowns. OBVIOUSLY this means they are HIDDEN. And the only way they CAN remain hidden among mortals is by having the ability to look NORMAL. Ergo, PLAYER vampires are NOT working as intended. ZoS needs to fix that. End of story.

Well now that they have shown how easily and quickly they can make a change like this in the background without actually telling any one, they have NO EXCUSE as to why they cannot do something for those of us who wish to hide our appearance when the Justice System comes out or for RP reasons. Be it a spell or a costume.

MornaBaine · November 2014

chipputer wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

What has obviously happened is that the NPC vampires LOOK like vampires at the point you, the player, are supposed to discover they are vampires. So now, since you know right away that Lamae is a vampire, she looks like one right off the bat. But because discovering that Verandis and Heloise are vampires is supposed to come as a surprise AFTER you have already interacted with them, they look NORMAL... until the big reveal. It's a pretty cheesy plot device really.

Glad it took you this long to figure this simple plot device out, that pretty much every other person got right away.

But the fact remains that even low level "nobody" vampires CAN AND DO look like MORTALS.

No. No that fact doesn't remain. You just said it was a cheesy plot device. The only case where it's not explained away easily is Verandis, and, even then, it's safe to assume that he's been around far longer than our, comparably, infant vampire characters and has picked up tricks or, as theorized, is directly descended from Molag Bal.

The reason any of them even look similar to the player characters upon discovery is simply due to saving resources. Why design two or three different vampire looks when they can just use the same one, get the same point across, and move on with everyone's life and time?

You are, once again, completely wrong. See my post update. have a nice day.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

There are only 4 things I'd love to see happen with Vampires, the rest I could care less about.

1) Add the singe sound Skyrim has when you are a Vampire and step out into Daylight.

2) Add NPC interaction similar to other ES games, at least to the point that they mention you look sick, or should get out more, or w/e. Obviously ZoS isn't going to add the full realism where the entire town guards were hostile, but NPC's should at least acknowledge you look "off".

3) Finally fix 'Unnatural Resistance' for good. And I mean actually fix it not just say you fixed it. I've been stuck at 8 Health Regen since I contracted Vampirism back at level 17. Regardless of whether I have 0/1/2 points into that passive or stage 1/2/3/4 it never changes. It never changes with character level either. And if I add a set with +Health Regen it doesn't give me the appropriate reduced amount. Without the passive at Stage 4 you should have -75% Health regen. With 2/2 you should have -35% Health Regen. It starts at -75% and stays there and set bonuses get hit with -75% even with 2/2.

4) Give us a (required daily) charm spell that we can choose to perform that alters our looks so we don't appear to be a Vampire. Basically for those who hate the look of a Vampire but want the RP value of it they could perform a daily ritual, something that takes maybe 10min or less, that places a charm on the player to make them appear normal for 24 hours.

I don't understand 3. I go from about 20 odd at stage 4 to over 50 at stage 1. Now I make the numbers how I want them and because I like stage 4 I have made sure my Health Regen is pretty good.

I really don't understand the hate for the Vampire look. You are a monster, I glory in it. I wander into a dungeon and I am a worse monster than what's in there, I enjoy that.

Note my weary sigh. It's NOT a hatred of the latter Stage looks. Are they MY personal favorite? No. But I ABSOLUTELY do NOT want them to go away or be removed. As a roleplayer they serve some fantastic story telling purposes. What I WANT is for player vampires to conform with the LORE as it is presented WITHIN THE GAME ITSELF. Vampires are MEANT to be able to HIDE AMONG MORTALS. This is outright STATED by Lamae Bal (reference original post) and it is shown as being a FACT by AT LEAST TWO NPC vampires you encounter in the game. (See next post for update to Original Post)

Yeah we know all about that. In excruciating detail. I was more interested in the poor health regen.

MornaBaine · November 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

There are only 4 things I'd love to see happen with Vampires, the rest I could care less about.

1) Add the singe sound Skyrim has when you are a Vampire and step out into Daylight.

2) Add NPC interaction similar to other ES games, at least to the point that they mention you look sick, or should get out more, or w/e. Obviously ZoS isn't going to add the full realism where the entire town guards were hostile, but NPC's should at least acknowledge you look "off".

3) Finally fix 'Unnatural Resistance' for good. And I mean actually fix it not just say you fixed it. I've been stuck at 8 Health Regen since I contracted Vampirism back at level 17. Regardless of whether I have 0/1/2 points into that passive or stage 1/2/3/4 it never changes. It never changes with character level either. And if I add a set with +Health Regen it doesn't give me the appropriate reduced amount. Without the passive at Stage 4 you should have -75% Health regen. With 2/2 you should have -35% Health Regen. It starts at -75% and stays there and set bonuses get hit with -75% even with 2/2.

4) Give us a (required daily) charm spell that we can choose to perform that alters our looks so we don't appear to be a Vampire. Basically for those who hate the look of a Vampire but want the RP value of it they could perform a daily ritual, something that takes maybe 10min or less, that places a charm on the player to make them appear normal for 24 hours.

I don't understand 3. I go from about 20 odd at stage 4 to over 50 at stage 1. Now I make the numbers how I want them and because I like stage 4 I have made sure my Health Regen is pretty good.

I really don't understand the hate for the Vampire look. You are a monster, I glory in it. I wander into a dungeon and I am a worse monster than what's in there, I enjoy that.

Note my weary sigh. It's NOT a hatred of the latter Stage looks. Are they MY personal favorite? No. But I ABSOLUTELY do NOT want them to go away or be removed. As a roleplayer they serve some fantastic story telling purposes. What I WANT is for player vampires to conform with the LORE as it is presented WITHIN THE GAME ITSELF. Vampires are MEANT to be able to HIDE AMONG MORTALS. This is outright STATED by Lamae Bal (reference original post) and it is shown as being a FACT by AT LEAST TWO NPC vampires you encounter in the game. (See next post for update to Original Post)

Yeah we know all about that. In excruciating detail. I was more interested in the poor health regen.

Then you would have done better to confine yourself to that topic instead of being unable to resist taking a swipe at me. I am more than happy to see the problematical mechanics of vampires discussed here.

MornaBaine · November 2014

I have also added the following update. Yes the original post is EVEN LONGER now! *cue evil vampire laughter here*

**UPDATE TO ADD MORE INFO 11/20/14**
The actual Stage Timers (and their supposed effects, there is some argument as to whether or not they really work this way), for those who do not know, are as follows:
Stage 1 Vampirisim 30 minutes -You take 50% more damage from fire attacks. -Feeding reduces you vampirisim stage, sneak up behind an enemy humanoid to feed on them.

Stage 2 Vampirisim 60 minutes -Your health regenerates 25% slower. -You take 50% more damage from fire attacks. -Your Vampirisim abilities cost 20% less health to cast. -Feeding reduces you vampirisim stage, sneak up behind an enemy humanoid to feed on them.

Stage 3 Vampirisim 90 minutes -Your health regenerates 50% slower. -You take 50% more damage from fire attacks. -Your Vampirisim abilities cost 40% less health to cast. -Feeding reduces you vampirisim stage, sneak up behind an enemy humanoid to feed on them.

Stage 4 Vampirisim no timer -Your health regenerates 75% slower. -You take 50% more damage from fire attacks. -Your Vampirisim abilities cost 60% less health to cast. -Feeding reduces you vampirisim stage, sneak up behind an enemy humanoid to feed on them.
Source: reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1zm3eo/life_in_eso_as_a_vampire_feedinghunger_mechanics/http://

If anything, the time for Stage 3 should be reversed with the time for Stage 1. It just makes more sense that a vampire that has just fed will look and feel more "normal" and that as the time between feedings lengthens they will degenerate more quickly. This might actually be the very easiest thing for ZOS to do.

phreatophile · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's NOT a hatred of the latter Stage looks. Are they MY personal favorite? No. But I ABSOLUTELY do NOT want them to go away or be removed. As a roleplayer they serve some fantastic story telling purposes. What I WANT is for player vampires to conform with the LORE as it is presented WITHIN THE GAME ITSELF. Vampires are MEANT to be able to HIDE AMONG MORTALS. This is outright STATED by Lamae Bal (reference original post) and it is shown as being a FACT by AT LEAST TWO NPC vampires you encounter in the game. (See next post for update to Original Post)

then

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Did you know that several of us have taken to saying "HI Morna" to those wanting pretty vamps? You are becoming a meme.

A meme perhaps, LOL

But not one that can be justified by what she has written. Lots more being asked for here, though I suspect those fixated on the "pretty vampires" took the TL:DR approach, or the straw man approach. What do the ugly vampire advocates think about longer a stage timer, or daylight penalties, or having vampires and werewolves kicked from the Fighter's Guild, or NPC reactions from fear and disgust to 'kill on sight' for guards at stage 4?

Even if we leave the clumsy plot device out of it, logicaly, Vampires that couldn't hide among mortals would have to hide away from them, or they wouldn't last very long.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

There are only 4 things I'd love to see happen with Vampires, the rest I could care less about.

1) Add the singe sound Skyrim has when you are a Vampire and step out into Daylight.

2) Add NPC interaction similar to other ES games, at least to the point that they mention you look sick, or should get out more, or w/e. Obviously ZoS isn't going to add the full realism where the entire town guards were hostile, but NPC's should at least acknowledge you look "off".

3) Finally fix 'Unnatural Resistance' for good. And I mean actually fix it not just say you fixed it. I've been stuck at 8 Health Regen since I contracted Vampirism back at level 17. Regardless of whether I have 0/1/2 points into that passive or stage 1/2/3/4 it never changes. It never changes with character level either. And if I add a set with +Health Regen it doesn't give me the appropriate reduced amount. Without the passive at Stage 4 you should have -75% Health regen. With 2/2 you should have -35% Health Regen. It starts at -75% and stays there and set bonuses get hit with -75% even with 2/2.

4) Give us a (required daily) charm spell that we can choose to perform that alters our looks so we don't appear to be a Vampire. Basically for those who hate the look of a Vampire but want the RP value of it they could perform a daily ritual, something that takes maybe 10min or less, that places a charm on the player to make them appear normal for 24 hours.

I don't understand 3. I go from about 20 odd at stage 4 to over 50 at stage 1. Now I make the numbers how I want them and because I like stage 4 I have made sure my Health Regen is pretty good.

I really don't understand the hate for the Vampire look. You are a monster, I glory in it. I wander into a dungeon and I am a worse monster than what's in there, I enjoy that.

Note my weary sigh. It's NOT a hatred of the latter Stage looks. Are they MY personal favorite? No. But I ABSOLUTELY do NOT want them to go away or be removed. As a roleplayer they serve some fantastic story telling purposes. What I WANT is for player vampires to conform with the LORE as it is presented WITHIN THE GAME ITSELF. Vampires are MEANT to be able to HIDE AMONG MORTALS. This is outright STATED by Lamae Bal (reference original post) and it is shown as being a FACT by AT LEAST TWO NPC vampires you encounter in the game. (See next post for update to Original Post)

Yeah we know all about that. In excruciating detail. I was more interested in the poor health regen.

Then you would have done better to confine yourself to that topic instead of being unable to resist taking a swipe at me. I am more than happy to see the problematical mechanics of vampires discussed here.

Did you know that several of us have taken to saying "HI Morna" to those wanting pretty vamps? You are becoming a meme.

That says an awful lot more about you than me. Especially the childish need to twist my words into something they are not in order to have something to strike at me with. Frankly, I'm flattered. After all, we are judged by our enemies far more than by our friends.

I was not the first and I'm sad I'm an enemy. I thought we just disagreed.

MornaBaine · November 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

There are only 4 things I'd love to see happen with Vampires, the rest I could care less about.

1) Add the singe sound Skyrim has when you are a Vampire and step out into Daylight.

2) Add NPC interaction similar to other ES games, at least to the point that they mention you look sick, or should get out more, or w/e. Obviously ZoS isn't going to add the full realism where the entire town guards were hostile, but NPC's should at least acknowledge you look "off".

3) Finally fix 'Unnatural Resistance' for good. And I mean actually fix it not just say you fixed it. I've been stuck at 8 Health Regen since I contracted Vampirism back at level 17. Regardless of whether I have 0/1/2 points into that passive or stage 1/2/3/4 it never changes. It never changes with character level either. And if I add a set with +Health Regen it doesn't give me the appropriate reduced amount. Without the passive at Stage 4 you should have -75% Health regen. With 2/2 you should have -35% Health Regen. It starts at -75% and stays there and set bonuses get hit with -75% even with 2/2.

4) Give us a (required daily) charm spell that we can choose to perform that alters our looks so we don't appear to be a Vampire. Basically for those who hate the look of a Vampire but want the RP value of it they could perform a daily ritual, something that takes maybe 10min or less, that places a charm on the player to make them appear normal for 24 hours.

I don't understand 3. I go from about 20 odd at stage 4 to over 50 at stage 1. Now I make the numbers how I want them and because I like stage 4 I have made sure my Health Regen is pretty good.

I really don't understand the hate for the Vampire look. You are a monster, I glory in it. I wander into a dungeon and I am a worse monster than what's in there, I enjoy that.

Note my weary sigh. It's NOT a hatred of the latter Stage looks. Are they MY personal favorite? No. But I ABSOLUTELY do NOT want them to go away or be removed. As a roleplayer they serve some fantastic story telling purposes. What I WANT is for player vampires to conform with the LORE as it is presented WITHIN THE GAME ITSELF. Vampires are MEANT to be able to HIDE AMONG MORTALS. This is outright STATED by Lamae Bal (reference original post) and it is shown as being a FACT by AT LEAST TWO NPC vampires you encounter in the game. (See next post for update to Original Post)

Yeah we know all about that. In excruciating detail. I was more interested in the poor health regen.

Then you would have done better to confine yourself to that topic instead of being unable to resist taking a swipe at me. I am more than happy to see the problematical mechanics of vampires discussed here.

Did you know that several of us have taken to saying "HI Morna" to those wanting pretty vamps? You are becoming a meme.

That says an awful lot more about you than me. Especially the childish need to twist my words into something they are not in order to have something to strike at me with. Frankly, I'm flattered. After all, we are judged by our enemies far more than by our friends.

I was not the first and I'm sad I'm an enemy. I thought we just disagreed.

I thought so too. But you've been taking some pretty petty jabs of late, which I also found disappointing. You repeatedly ignore what I HAVE said in favor of what you want to think I said. I've explained over and over that while I'm not crazy about the ugly looks I find they serve an important purpose and I do not want to see them banished. Yet all you can repeat endlessly is, "Morna wants pretty vampires!" Cue the Twilight references. So yes, in my perception, you have simply declared yourself my enemy, acting on dislike of me personally rather than my arguments, which you tend not to address.

phreatophile · November 2014

que shameless self quote (and hopefully shameless redirect):

Regarding stages, If I could design it:
Stage 1 lasts 2 hours. Appearance is fully mortal(think Verandis Ravenwatch when you first meet him, he had a tan and normal eyes, or Heloise Menoit who is unrecognizable as a vampire when you meet her). Fire debuff 25%. All regens normal.

Stage 2 lasts 3 hours. Appearance deteriorates. Fire debuff 35%. All regens buff/debuff by 20% in darkness/daylight.

Stage 3 lasts 4 hours. Appearance further deteriorates. Fire debuff 45%. All regens buff/debuff by 30% in darkness/daylight. 'Straightlaced' questgivers/merchants shun you.

Stage 4 lasts. Appearance is fully undead. Fire debuff 55%. All regens buff/debuff by 40% in darkness / daylight. Everybody who isn't undead themselves, won't trade with you. Fighter's Guild and Guards attack you on sight.

Remove cost reduction of vampire abilities entirely or at least from Swarm Ult.

The whole thing takes 9 hours (1.5 ingame days) which makes sense for feeding.

This would make vampires far more interesting to play.
You want to look mortal and play mortal, eat somebody.

A vampire wouldn't be much of a threat in daylight, but a terror in the dark.

The effect that cost reduction had is better handled with higher regens (edit: could even go higher -/+ by daylight/dark to make up for cost reduction loss) since these are soft/hard capped and cost reduction is not. (harder to abuse)

There are real problems that come with stage 4, and real advantages in certain circumstances.

phreatophile · November 2014

That cheesy plot device makes the point for me, BTW.

If you don't already know you're dealing with a vampire, then you won't know purely by sight.

They are revealed by their actions (and cheesy plot devices). Player vampires carry a neon sign, no cheesy plot devices for us.

Nacario · November 2014

This is a really good thread OP, I hope this gets dev attention.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

There are only 4 things I'd love to see happen with Vampires, the rest I could care less about.

1) Add the singe sound Skyrim has when you are a Vampire and step out into Daylight.

2) Add NPC interaction similar to other ES games, at least to the point that they mention you look sick, or should get out more, or w/e. Obviously ZoS isn't going to add the full realism where the entire town guards were hostile, but NPC's should at least acknowledge you look "off".

3) Finally fix 'Unnatural Resistance' for good. And I mean actually fix it not just say you fixed it. I've been stuck at 8 Health Regen since I contracted Vampirism back at level 17. Regardless of whether I have 0/1/2 points into that passive or stage 1/2/3/4 it never changes. It never changes with character level either. And if I add a set with +Health Regen it doesn't give me the appropriate reduced amount. Without the passive at Stage 4 you should have -75% Health regen. With 2/2 you should have -35% Health Regen. It starts at -75% and stays there and set bonuses get hit with -75% even with 2/2.

4) Give us a (required daily) charm spell that we can choose to perform that alters our looks so we don't appear to be a Vampire. Basically for those who hate the look of a Vampire but want the RP value of it they could perform a daily ritual, something that takes maybe 10min or less, that places a charm on the player to make them appear normal for 24 hours.

I don't understand 3. I go from about 20 odd at stage 4 to over 50 at stage 1. Now I make the numbers how I want them and because I like stage 4 I have made sure my Health Regen is pretty good.

I really don't understand the hate for the Vampire look. You are a monster, I glory in it. I wander into a dungeon and I am a worse monster than what's in there, I enjoy that.

Note my weary sigh. It's NOT a hatred of the latter Stage looks. Are they MY personal favorite? No. But I ABSOLUTELY do NOT want them to go away or be removed. As a roleplayer they serve some fantastic story telling purposes. What I WANT is for player vampires to conform with the LORE as it is presented WITHIN THE GAME ITSELF. Vampires are MEANT to be able to HIDE AMONG MORTALS. This is outright STATED by Lamae Bal (reference original post) and it is shown as being a FACT by AT LEAST TWO NPC vampires you encounter in the game. (See next post for update to Original Post)

Yeah we know all about that. In excruciating detail. I was more interested in the poor health regen.

Then you would have done better to confine yourself to that topic instead of being unable to resist taking a swipe at me. I am more than happy to see the problematical mechanics of vampires discussed here.

Did you know that several of us have taken to saying "HI Morna" to those wanting pretty vamps? You are becoming a meme.

That says an awful lot more about you than me. Especially the childish need to twist my words into something they are not in order to have something to strike at me with. Frankly, I'm flattered. After all, we are judged by our enemies far more than by our friends.

I was not the first and I'm sad I'm an enemy. I thought we just disagreed.

I thought so too. But you've been taking some pretty petty jabs of late, which I also found disappointing. You repeatedly ignore what I HAVE said in favor of what you want to think I said. I've explained over and over that while I'm not crazy about the ugly looks I find they serve an important purpose and I do not want to see them banished. Yet all you can repeat endlessly is, "Morna wants pretty vampires!" Cue the Twilight references. So yes, in my perception, you have simply declared yourself my enemy, acting on dislike of me personally rather than my arguments, which you tend not to address.

OK enemies it is. You have demonstrated unnatural energy and dedication to the purpose of having your Vampire look normal, a Vampire characteristic I do admit. It has gotten to the point some people have made a bit of a joke out of it.

This is why I say you want pretty vamps. I remember you complaining your efforts in the character creator were undone by the effect Vampirism had on her.

It appears your efforts have backfired, if the Lamae Bal shots are accurate, they have doubled down on you.

All the rest of the various plans you have laid out are really to cover your need for a normal looking Vampire. Or so it seems to me. I would say 'get over it', but there appears to be little chance of that.

clayandaudrey_ESO · November 2014

Looks like Verandis has a new skin as well in game. Screen shot below.

SlayerSyrena · November 2014

I understand the OP's desire to have a 'normal' looking option (stage or disguise) to effectively hide a character's vampirism. Whether that vampire is 'pretty' or not is up to debate (it's basically up to what exactly you made in the character creator. I've seen some pretty hideous PC's, imo).

Also, I think it's cool that Lamae's look has been changed. She's been so busy getting the ritual lately, she hasn't had time to feed.

That doesn't change the fact that being able to look 'normal' as a vampire is completely lore friendly (*ahem* Count Ravenwatch).

Not sure why there is so much animosity toward this idea. Vampires have been portrayed as mysterious and able to hide their true nature all through various myths, books and movies. This is nothing new.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

SlayerSyrena wrote: »

Not sure why there is so much animosity toward this idea. Vampires have been portrayed as mysterious and able to hide their true nature all through various myths, books and movies. This is nothing new.

This matters not at all, it's not TES.

Lore is the whole ball game and that has been extensively argued in several threads. I lose interest, but it does seem there was no particular winner in those debates. They boiled down to there being different kinds of TES Vampires and Ravenwatch is not the same kind as you are.

SlayerSyrena · November 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Lore is the whole ball game and that has been extensively argued in several threads. I lose interest, but it does seem there was no particular winner in those debates. They boiled down to there being different kinds of TES Vampires and Ravenwatch is not the same kind as you are.

So, then, according to the current state of the game, it's lore-friendly that no NPC, vampire or not, can recognize a player character as a vampire, but every player character has this ability somehow.

Gotcha.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · November 2014

SlayerSyrena wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Lore is the whole ball game and that has been extensively argued in several threads. I lose interest, but it does seem there was no particular winner in those debates. They boiled down to there being different kinds of TES Vampires and Ravenwatch is not the same kind as you are.

So, then, according to the current state of the game, it's lore-friendly that no NPC, vampire or not, can recognize a player character as a vampire, but every player character has this ability somehow.

Gotcha.

It would be nice to be recognized, but they have decided to treat all chars the same. I'd guess it's the MMO part of the game.

They would have to write alternate quests and the dialogue involved, and that would add up to a pile of work not being done on the rest of the game, which sorta needs it.

Evandus · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

This is how she has looked the 2 times I have seen her while running this quest and this is how she has looked the 2 times my husband has run this quest:

That is a pretty far cry from THIS:

So I really want to know...HAS there been a change?

As I said. Her appearance has changed. I believe this is largely due to your referencing her in a manner akin to a Cyrodiilic Vamp. Congratulations...

To suggest I'm not paying attention is a rather immature argument. Those screenshots are from a new character I did the vamp quest with while level 7.

Please construct better counterarguments. My screenshots, and previous disagreements with your 'pretty' vampires in TES speak for themselves.

Yes, yes they do. Just not in the way you think.

Yet, the incomprehensible for you rings true. I, and others are correct

Evandus · November 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Well I was actually curious enough to re-run this quest and yes, they've made Lamae look like a Stage 2 vampire just as they did with Verandis and every single other NPC vampire...once you know they are vampires. What has obviously happened is that the NPC vampires LOOK like vampires at the point you, the player, are supposed to discover they are vampires. So now, since you know right away that Lamae is a vampire, she looks like one right off the bat. But because discovering that Verandis and Heloise are vampires is supposed to come as a surprise AFTER you have already interacted with them, they look NORMAL... until the big reveal. It's a pretty cheesy plot device really. But the fact remains that even low level "nobody" vampires CAN AND DO look like MORTALS. Heloise was scratched by bloodfiends and she even kills and still looks NORMAL until YOU find out that she's a vampire. Most importantly, the quest dialogue with Lamae at the end of the quest remains completely the same. She tells you that YOUR kin mingle among the mortals and may be wearing rags or crowns. OBVIOUSLY this means they are HIDDEN. And the only way they CAN remain hidden among mortals is by having the ability to look NORMAL. Ergo, PLAYER vampires are NOT working as intended. ZoS needs to fix that. End of story.

Again this is not in line with what I've experienced playing 6 characters through these questlines. Count Verandis is an oversight in the same manner Lamae was. I'm sure with repeated referencing him as an argument to allow players to hide their vampirism (something not able to be done for a player character in previous TES games), will result in the same type of appearance reset. The dialogue interprets to me that Verandis remains in stage 1 to deal with his peers at the request of King Emeric. Not that he completely masks his nature. The dialogue from the other nobles in Shornhelm are appropriate reactions to a stage one vampire (who does still look mortal, but sickly and is suspicious to others who are observant).

Also in that questline are the bloodfiends. Who appear to be in stage 3-4 and essentially mindless. Heloise and your other reference are exceptions. They posses the strength of will to resist being mindless or bestial only. I find it strange that people referencing Heloise before she actually becomes a bloodfiend. One only need reference either once they have transformed. It's a bizzare argument to bring to the table.

Anyway, I'm confident that changing the appearance of Verandis will be the next step in stopping these types of arguments. It's been stated that there are no plans to change or alter the appearance of player vampires. This leads me to believe that the visual changes are absolutely intended.

This game has been designed in such a way that the appearance changes are one of the negatives associated with NS. The changes are truly mild compared to other TES games as well (Mods withstanding).

Perhaps if the development team enables players to have the option to modify their appearances (beauty shop or some such), one can then address this. Reasonable modification to appearance while maintaining the lore of the vampiric visage could allow players more pleasing avatars without disrupting the rest of the game. Particularly PvP aspects where identifying a vampire or werewolf is necessary.

Stage timer revamp ideas are good stuff. Demanding pretty vamps and/or the ability to completely hide vampirism is not good for the game. Vampires already have numerous advantages over other skill lines, with little to no drawback.

bosmern_ESO · November 2014

Yeah, no.

phreatophile · November 2014

Evandus wrote: »

Particularly PvP aspects where identifying a vampire or werewolf is necessary

Why? Serious question? You identify a werewolf when it turns right? So werewolves are identifiable by their use of werewolf abilities, but vampires must be obvious at great distance unless they wear plate armor.

NS is clearly a dead end in vampire evolution. Something like "Their inability to blend in made them easy targets for an reinvigorated Fighter's Guild and the long suffering populace, leading them to be eventually supplanted by more highly evolved strains such as Cyrodillic"

Thechemicals · November 2014

Improving vampire.....no thanks.

If at all.....drain life animation is still messed up and clunky reaction when you click to use it.....its as if the skill is processing for a second before it starts, and you get stuck in the animation sometimes.

MornaBaine · November 2014

phreatophile wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

Particularly PvP aspects where identifying a vampire or werewolf is necessary

Why? Serious question? You identify a werewolf when it turns right? So werewolves are identifiable by their use of werewolf abilities, but vampires must be obvious at great distance unless they wear plate armor.

NS is clearly a dead end in vampire evolution. Something like "Their inability to blend in made them easy targets for an reinvigorated Fighter's Guild and the long suffering populace, leading them to be eventually supplanted by more highly evolved strains such as Cyrodillic"

I find it really interesting that over and over again I get the "It's important to be able to identify vampires in PvP." But yet every single time I have asked, "WHY?" I get crickets. No response. Including from Paul Sage himself to whom I specifically posed the question. And even if it somehow WERE important (which it isn't) there is a skill morph that let's you do it and AND a highly questionable add-on that lets you identify both vampires AND werewolves. So for vampires to constantly be visible via an appearance skin...it's just completely unnecessary. And everyone knows it, including those who keep making this argument.

Cherryblossom · November 2014

I'll honestly never understand the Vampire at Stage 4 must be attacked business!

Surely these are the Vamps that do not feed on others! It's the ones at Stage 1 that are the real danger!