Some Suggestions for Improving Vampires

MornaBaine

This post is the current culmination of everything I have learned from my previous posts and polls regarding vampirism. All of those previous threads will now be ignored by me.

I am among those who believe that vampires and werewolves were last minute additions to this game. I believe this because of the unfinished way they were implemented and the way they break with the lore, not only of the way vampires worked in previous TES titles but against the very lore demonstrated in THIS game. I will explain my reasoning on this matter in the latter half of my post. For now, I would like to discuss potential improvements and the various ways they might be implemented.

1. The timing of the Stages is completely off. If a player chooses to remain in the least monstrous and least obvious stage, Stage 1, they are forced to feed 12 times a day since Stage 1 only lasts a half an hour of a 6 hour game day. This "feeding schedule" is completely unrealistic and can only be accomplished by actively questing in areas with large numbers of NPCs that vampires can actually feed on. If you are grouped for a dungeon or other group activity such as PvP it can be nearly impossible to feed as your entire group has to wait for you to sneak up on a suitable NPC and not aggro it so you can feed on them before engaging the NPCs in combat. Only Nightblades can currently feed while in combat as they can go invisible in order to sneak up on an NPC that has already been aggroed. As the pros and cons of each stage can have a definite impact on gameplay it is important that players have some control over the Stage their vampire is in at all times. This becomes even more true with the implementation of the justice system where Paul Sage assures us that other NPCs "will notice" vampires in Stage 4 and will not like it, suggesting that they will aggro on Stage 4 vampires in cities and towns. There have been several suggestions to improve this situation.

A. Change the Stage timer to 6 hours for each of the initial 3 stages in order to more accurately reflect how the stage timing worked in the previous TES titles where your vampire only had to feed ONCE PER DAY in order to maintain Stage 1 . Each day that went by without feeding also lasted an entire day/night cycle. So it actually took 3 whole days before your vampire was "starving" and city guards would attack them on sight. This is probably the most realistic and lore-friendly solution. Those who prefer to maintain their vampires IN Stage 4 will still be able to do so in the same manner they always have, by not feeding at all.

B. Lengthen the Stage 1, 2 and 3 timers to 2 hours each. This way it still takes at least 1 full game day to become a "starving" vampire at Stage 4 and gives players a more reasonable time frame to maintain the Stage of their choice than the current system does.

Several other suggestions have been made as to preferred lengths of time for each of the first 3 stages, with the very least "acceptable" amount of time for Stage 1 being a full hour. The main thrust of all of these suggestions is that, as it currently stands, Stage 1 is far too short. In that amount of time you can barely find an NPC to feed on and then enter a town and get to the merchants before you are in Stage 2 already. If you are in a city and busy crafting with your vampires even if you start at Stage 1 you can end up in Stage 3 and even 4 before you even know what happened. Roleplaying inside a city....HOURS can and do go by without a good opportunity to break away and leave town to go feed. Again, this does not prevent access to the latter Stages but merely gives players better control over what Stage their vampire is in. ANY system that enables this will be welcome.

**UPDATE TO ADD MORE INFO 11/20/14**
The actual Stage Timers (and their supposed effects, there is some argument as to whether or not they really work this way), for those who do not know, are as follows:
Stage 1 Vampirisim 30 minutes -You take 50% more damage from fire attacks. -Feeding reduces you vampirisim stage, sneak up behind an enemy humanoid to feed on them.

Stage 2 Vampirisim 60 minutes -Your health regenerates 25% slower. -You take 50% more damage from fire attacks. -Your Vampirisim abilities cost 20% less health to cast. -Feeding reduces you vampirisim stage, sneak up behind an enemy humanoid to feed on them.

Stage 3 Vampirisim 90 minutes -Your health regenerates 50% slower. -You take 50% more damage from fire attacks. -Your Vampirisim abilities cost 40% less health to cast. -Feeding reduces you vampirisim stage, sneak up behind an enemy humanoid to feed on them.

Stage 4 Vampirisim no timer -Your health regenerates 75% slower. -You take 50% more damage from fire attacks. -Your Vampirisim abilities cost 60% less health to cast. -Feeding reduces you vampirisim stage, sneak up behind an enemy humanoid to feed on them.
Source: reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1zm3eo/life_in_eso_as_a_vampire_feedinghunger_mechanics/http://

If anything, the time for Stage 3 should be reversed with the time for Stage 1. It just makes more sense that a vampire that has just fed will look and feel more "normal" and that as the time between feedings lengthens they will degenerate more quickly. This might actually be the very easiest thing for ZOS to do.
EDIT 12/31/14 TO ADD: This would also please PvPers who have already expressed concern about how long it will take for their vampires to return to Stage 4 before returning to Cyrodiil.

2. Please give us some way to hide vampirism completely and return our vampires to the appearance they had BEFORE becoming a vampire. This is consistent with the lore of ESO for several reasons I will detail below. Here I will simply detail various lore-friendly suggested methods for its implementation. However, it is important to note that this should not be a "freebie." It either needs to be the result of a quest reward, an additional Skill that one has to put points into or in some other manner expend effort to acquire. It is also important to note that no matter how this is implemented, it needs to "break" at Stage 4. In other words, while using it, the Stages actually continue to progress as usual. At Stage 4 either the effect vanishes, revealing the Stage 4 appearance (the preferred outcome) or, even if the VISUAL effect does not disappear, NPCs can STILL tell there is something terribly wrong with your vampire and will react accordingly once the justice system for this is in place. No one wants this to be an "I don't have to deal with Stages" item! Nor is it meant to confer a permanent Stage 1. Those who do not want these options can simply skip the quest if there is one. Just please don't make it tie to an Achievement.

A. A costume/disguise that you can acquire from either an NPC quest giver (and that you must complete the quest for in order to be able to keep) or that you can purchase (for a fairly large amount of gold, meaning you'll still have to "work" in order to be able to acquire it) from an NPC vampire merchant. This is probably the LEAST appealing suggestion as it would preclude using any other costume or disguise while using it.

B. A slottable item (like, for example, Finvir's Trinket) that you can acquire from either an NPC quest giver (and that you must complete the quest for in order to be able to keep) or that you can purchase (for a fairly large amount of gold, meaning you'll still have to "work" in order to be able to acquire it) from an NPC vampire merchant.

C. A potion that lasts a minimum of 2 hours and a maximum of 6 hours that you can acquire from either an NPC quest giver (and that you must complete the quest for in order to be able to keep) or that you can purchase (for a fairly large amount of gold, meaning you'll still have to "work" in order to be able to acquire it) from an NPC vampire merchant. In the case of being able to acquire the potion from an NPC quest giver, once the quest is completed you would then be able to return to that NPC at any time to acquire more of the potion.

D. A potion that lasts a minimum of 2 hours and a maximum of 6 hours that you can acquire via the Alchemy Skill.

E. A new vampire Active Skill.

F. A new vampire Passive Skill.

Ideally, in the case of new vampire Skills, you would still need to complete a quest to unlock access to these skills. Either could be implemented as part of the upcoming Spellcrafting system.

3. Bring back the ability to "charm" an NPC and feed off them WITHOUT aggroing them, as it is in Skyrim/Dawnguard. Since feeding does no damage this is reasonable and in accordance with previous TES lore. Once the justice system is in and guards will aggro and bounties will be incurred and characters CAN attack townie NPCs it stands to reason that vampires will be able to feed on them as well. Those who DO NOT WANT TO KILL THEIR PREY, and thus incur a bounty or be attacked by guards, need an option to feed that does not aggro. It would be fine for this to only be available to neutral NPCs and not hostile ones.

4. Change the feeding animation. Frankly, it's terrible. When feeding from stealth, the vampire should jump on the back of the NPC and bite the neck. Keep the current screaming, that's great. When feeding from a charmed victim the vampire should approach the NPC from the front and then either bite the neck or the victim can offer their wrist that the vampire then grabs and feeds from. If a sound effect to go with the animation is necessary a soft gasp from the victim would be fine. Bonus if the victim gives a bit of a drunken stagger afterwards.

5. While no one wants to change the looks of Stages 2, 3 and 4 there is some controversy over the look of Stage 1. The incredibly bright white skin and glowing red eyes still make vampires look far too "obvious" when compared to previous Stage 1 player vampires in the stand alone TES games and also goes against the lore established by ESO. Some people also don't like it that they lose the look of the facial makeup they selected at character creation. Many simply want a vampire that looks SUBTLY different from mortals but can generally "pass" as mortal at first glance. Some would actually like to change the appearance of Stage 1 (and therefore do away with the current look of Stage 1) while others feel a new Stage should be added and that this new, more subtle, look should become Stage 1, the current Stage 1 should become Stage 2 and so on down the line resulting in 5 Stages instead of the current 4. The easiest way to achieve this new look might simply be to implement it as an additional look to the "disguise" detailed above so that there are TWO different choices (and ideally, we would have access to BOTH). However this might be implemented, there are basically 4 potential sets of ways for it to look.
A. Skin paleness is dialed back so it doesn't glow the way it does now. Skin is STILL paler than "normal." Ditto for khajiit fur. Makeup is returned to the way it looked at character creation. Ditto tattoos. Eyes remain red.

B. Skin paleness is dialed back so it doesn't glow the way it does now. Skin is STILL paler than "normal." Ditto for khajiit fur. Makeup is returned to the way it looked at character creation. Ditto tattoos. Eyes return to original color selected at character creation but still glow SLIGHTLY.

C. Look is completely mortal EXCEPT that eyes glow red as they currently do in Stage

D. Current Stage 1 skin paleness is left as is but makeup, eye color and tattoos are returned to normal. (For purely aesthetic reasons this one is my personal favorite.)

6. Some people do not care for the way that the vampirism that was designed for ESO lets vampires walk in the sun without penalty. And it is pretty lore breaking when compared to the other ES games and since I am addressing vampirism from the "lore" as presented in the previous games as well I'll mention this also. While it may be "too late" to change it now there are some ways in which a more consistent with previous games mechanic could be implemented. Vampires COULD take damage in sunlight though this should be slow and it should be some times before the vampire collapses and dies. If possible, they should take only half of the regular damage if they remain in shadow but, again, I'm not at all sure that is something that could be done. However, they should take NO damage when indoors or in a dungeon or other underground location. Further, a potion could be made available that gives vampires sunlight immunity for an hour, just like a food buff. This would at least mean vampires don't get to walk about in the sun without consequence and would make them a little more challenging to play. While this would mean "retconning" the ESO lore and I am therefore neutral to slightly opposed to the idea, there are those who feel that since it would be a better mechanic than the one selected and more consistent with previous TES lore, it should be done. I include it here in the interests of completion of the various ideas people have come up with to improve the player experience of vampires.

7. Vampire only emotes. This is just fluff but is the sort of fun thing that adds to immersion.
/lungehiss The vampire lunges forward and hisses.

/mist The vampire becomes a column of mist. Animation can be maintained while WALKING only.

/barefangs Vampire snarls, baring their fangs, which are visible in the animation.

And now, the reasons why...

It is apparent that vampires are MEANT to be able to pass as normal humans in ESO and that the vast majority of them do so. I have 2 reasons for believing this. The first, is Count Ravenwatch.

This is Verandis Ravenwatch when you first meet him. Note that he looks completely mortal.




And this is Verandis Ravenwatch AFTER you find out that he is a vampire and has been one all along.




He TELLS you that he "hides" his condition at the insistence of his good friend High King Emeric. Now, there are those who say that this is because he was turned into a vampire directly by Molag Bal and therefore INNATELY has the ability to do this whereas player vampires, having contracted their vampirism via bloodfiends, do not. In other words, player vampires are a lesser order of vampire and therefore will never have this ability. Now, there are 2 reasons to disagree with this assumption. Because that's exactly what it is, an assumption. Verandis never says he was made a vampire by Molag Bal. He never says how he was made a vampire at all. He DOES refer to Molag Bal as his "master." That may suggest that MB DID turn him BUT it is also easily read as the designation ANYONE who serves Molag Bal would give the Prince of Schemes and may very well NOT indicate that it means MB is his "Maker." IF Molag Bal had turned him directly that would indicate that Ravenwatch is a "Son of Coldharbor" BUT there are no "Sons" of Coldharbor in ES lore, only "Daughters of Coldharbor." Even though Lord Harkon in Dawnguard claims to have been made a vampire directly by Molag Bal in Dawnguard his story is in direct contradiction to all previous lore on the subject. So while it is POSSIBLE Verandis was made a vampire directly by Molag Bal it is unlikely, nor is it ever stated outright.

We, as players, do not KNOW how Ravenwatch became a vampire or of what bloodline he may be. What we DO know is that he is a very powerful sorcerer and he demonstrates this throughout your association with him during the questline he appears in. So when he says he "hides" his condition at the insistence of King Emeric it is not at all unbelievable that what he means is that he uses some form of sorcery to do so and that it is NOT, in fact, an innate ability conferred by his particular form of vampirism. Plus, the very fact that he says he "hides" it indicates that it is NOT a normal and innate part of his particular form of vampirism to be able to look mortal but rather is something that must be effected by other means. In other words, he wouldn't have to "hide" it if his normal state was to look mortal.

Indeed, AS a vampire, his appearance is exactly like that of a Stage 2 player vampire, further indicating that he IS, in fact, a vampire of the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria variety, the type of vampirism that player characters contract. Long story short; If Verandis can do it there is nothing keeping ZoS from implementing a lore-friendly way for player characters to do it.

My second example in support of my contention is Lamae Bal herself. Throughout the vampire quest she looks completely mortal. Again, naysayers will say that she IS a Daughter of Coldharbor (and she IS, no argument there) and that therefore she will be possessed of powers and abilities that will not be available to player vampires. They may even further contend that since one starts their transformation into a vampire via an attack by bloodfiends they are not "really" even children of her line and are therefore of an "inferior" strain that gets hungry super fast and looks obviously monstrous much of the time. But I call shenanigans on this argument. Rahaja, the initial questgiver in the tomb refers to "the history of our kin" with the "our" including you, the player vampire.

At the beginning of the quest Lamae Bal herself says the following, "Children, this is your kin. Life still flows within its blood. Tear it out, drain it, so that it may join us."

When the vampires there are finished drinking your blood she says, "Now you are one of us."

There is every indication that you ARE one of her "children" and in no way different than if she had in fact started the process herself. She certainly never says otherwise and there is no reason to believe otherwise.

**UPDATING TO ADD NEW INFORMATION 11/20/14**
I re-ran the vampire quest today and they have changed Lamae's appearance to that of a Stage 2 vampire. HOWEVER, HER ENDING QUEST DIALOGUE REMAINS THE SAME, CLEARLY INDICATING THAT VAMPIRES HAVE THE ABILITY TO HIDE AMONG MORTALS.

But the final kicker is at the end of the quest. When you speak to her again she says, "Your kin live among the mortals. They may be wearing rags or crowns. They may hide within or rise above the masses. Find them. They await." You can see the video where she says this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRQepUQ0OTU at 1:40.

If THAT does not indicate that vampires SHOULD and were INTENDED to be able to pass as mortals, I don't know what does. Because, obviously, vampires DO live unnoticed among mortals and the ONLY way they can do this is if they do NOT look like insane monsters more akin to zombies than vampires and as if they are about to eat the face off everyone they encounter.

**UPDATING TO ADD ANOTHER EXAMPLE 11/20/14**
What may be the most clear cut example of the fact that vampires are SUPPOSED to be able to look COMPLETELY MORTAL is the case of Heloise Menoit, a healer you meet in Rivenspire in the 20's level range. She has been scratched or bitten BY BLOODFIENDS. Over the course of the questline she is preoccupied with "hunger" and gives several indicators that she is becoming either a vampire or a bloodfiend herself. Ultimately she attacks and kills members of a family you and she are trying to help. She has clearly already become a vampire when you find her with the dead bodies BUT SHE STILL LOOKS COMPLETELY MORTAL. Only AFTER, you the player, are SUPPOSED to discover that she is a vampire does she LOOK like one. Up to that point, even AFTER she has clearly transformed into a vampire and started killing, she still looks utterly mortal.

For confirmation see video of the quest in question here:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5SMkrjoi_PE#t=311

Now, obviously, this is a plot device and, frankly, a really poor one. It's being done so that when various vampires are "revealed" it's a surprise. But the problem here is that, again and again, we are shown that vampires CAN AND DO HIDE among mortals...and they do it by LOOKING MORTAL. Clearly, Stage 1 really should have a completely mortal appearance as, as Heloise PROVES, even lowly vampires like those turned by bloodfiends and NOT just special snowflakes like Verandis, can do this (look mortal) as a NATURAL part of their condition. It is therefore LORE that they can. To keep this ability from players is not only just petty but it's utterly illogical.

Now, as far as mechanics go, you DO pass as mortal among the NPCs in the game. NONE of them, including other vampires for that matter, KNOW that you are a vampire. Every single one of them is completely oblivious to this fact despite the fact that your appearance, most of the time, is the stuff of nightmares. Now my understanding is that the justice system IS going to change this, for Stage 4 vampires. My HOPE is that, at Stage 3, NPCs will also start making the usual cracks about not liking the hunger in your eyes we got from Skyrim. But since it seems that in Stages 1 and 2 they will still be clueless, it stands to reason that those appearances should at least be passably mortal. And one way or another, vampires SHOULD be able to pass for mortal and the appearance should match up with what we experience with the mechanics associated with each Stage.

Lastly, there seems to be a belief that it is somehow "important" that vampires be easily visible in PvP and that therefore the blindingly white skin is a must. However, several different armor types already allow a vampire to completely cover their appearance. Since this is true in PvP there's really no reason why other methods, such as the above mentioned "disguise," cannot be used as well. There also already exist ways to circumvent the ability to "hide" vampirism in PvP such as a particularly popular and questionable add-on that identifies not just vampires but werewolves as well. In addition there will soon be an actual SKILL that will let you see who the vampires are. With this in mind, the truth is that there's no actual way TO hide vampirism in PvP so there's no reason to disallow an appearance disguise if the player wishes to use one. It has no effect on PvP one way or the other. So let's put the, "You have to be ugly because PvP reasons" argument to rest here as well. It holds no water.

Powers that be at ZoS, I hope you will examine this proposal and realize that implementing it will result in better, more lore-friendly, and certainly more enjoyable vampires. Doing so will take nothing away from those players who enjoy the current system and will add far more interesting dynamics to this heretofore rather poorly implemented skill line. Thank you for your time.

AlexDougherty

Nothing in there that screams unfair or wrong, I'm dubious about letting Vampires charm NPCs, but as long as they don't kill, and they are secluded, and it doesn't work on PCs, ok.

But seriously, you need to shorten the length, it's like five or six times the length on the my screen, and that's just the text, not the pictures. I get that this is important to you, and you want to phrase everything right, but this skyscraper of text is off putting

Audigy

Every day is a new day with Morna

Powers that be at ZoS, I hope you will examine this proposal and realize that implementing it will result in better, more lore-friendly, and certainly more enjoyable vampires. Doing so will take nothing away from those players who enjoy the current system and will add far more interesting dynamics to this heretofore rather poorly implemented skill line. Thank you for your time.

Sadly this is not the case. As soon you change something in the game, people will be affected.

I am not a Vampire in or outside of the game, still I would be a bit annoyed if the Vampire sees changes which would turn "my" Vampire into something else than it currently is.

You need to understand people who are actually enjoying their current Vampires. They do this because of how they are now and every change you demand would impact them. That said, changes will happen they always do in MMOs so maybe ZO will change werewolf's and vampires in future we don't know this yet.

I am not saying all your changes are bad or good, we all know you don't like "monstrous" Vampires but if you lower the amount of feed for instance then this is a major game changing thing.

This isn't only about PVE but also PVP. A Vampire is a very strong char and it must be balanced by having big disadvantages just like RPGs offer. You are already not affected by the sunlight, something I see as a big no go but ok I guess.

I like that you want to address this and you get my support there, sadly I cant really give you that same support about hiding your Vampirism or the general amount of negative response that an infected body receives.


Since I am a kind person and see desperation in your threads, I would advice to bring this up at the next ESO live or just send a support mail with your text. However, if you once again attack and insult those not agreeing with you, that support will be gone as fast as it came

MornaBaine

Audigy wrote: »

Every day is a new day with Morna

Powers that be at ZoS, I hope you will examine this proposal and realize that implementing it will result in better, more lore-friendly, and certainly more enjoyable vampires. Doing so will take nothing away from those players who enjoy the current system and will add far more interesting dynamics to this heretofore rather poorly implemented skill line. Thank you for your time.

Sadly this is not the case. As soon you change something in the game, people will be affected.

I am not a Vampire in or outside of the game, still I would be a bit annoyed if the Vampire sees changes which would turn "my" Vampire into something else than it currently is.

You need to understand people who are actually enjoying their current Vampires. They do this because of how they are now and every change you demand would impact them. That said, changes will happen they always do in MMOs so maybe ZO will change werewolf's and vampires in future we don't know this yet.

I am not saying all your changes are bad or good, we all know you don't like "monstrous" Vampires but if you lower the amount of feed for instance then this is a major game changing thing.

This isn't only about PVE but also PVP. A Vampire is a very strong char and it must be balanced by having big disadvantages just like RPGs offer. You are already not affected by the sunlight, something I see as a big no go but ok I guess.

I like that you want to address this and you get my support there, sadly I cant really give you that same support about hiding your Vampirism or the general amount of negative response that an infected body receives.


Since I am a kind person and see desperation in your threads, I would advice to bring this up at the next ESO live or just send a support mail with your text. However, if you once again attack and insult those not agreeing with you, that support will be gone as fast as it came

If you did manage to read my post in its entirety you will have noticed that my proposals do not, in fact, take anything away from those who enjoy vampires as they currently stand. Nothing I propose effects combat mechanics nor does anything I have proposed remove any of the Stages and their associated looks. As I've said before, if someone LIKES their monstrous vampire, they can keep them. Oh and as for vampires in PvP and your concern that changing the feeding schedule will cause vampires to be less disadvantaged than they are? Have you ever seen a vampire in Cyrodil that WASN'T in Stage 4? I've seen exactly TWO, myself and my husband. And many a PvPer is quite vocal about preferring the advantages of Stage 4 and have already begun to protest against the idea that being aggroed by NPC guards will "force" them to feed and leave Stage 4 in order to "conduct business." That being the case, I'd say the whole Stage mechanic is already not working as intended.

MornaBaine

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Nothing in there that screams unfair or wrong, I'm dubious about letting Vampires charm NPCs, but as long as they don't kill, and they are secluded, and it doesn't work on PCs, ok.

But seriously, you need to shorten the length, it's like five or six times the length on the my screen, and that's just the text, not the pictures. I get that this is important to you, and you want to phrase everything right, but this skyscraper of text is off putting

As to the length, while posted on the forums for those interested to peruse, this was not written for the short attention span crowd. It was written for ZoS. The people who choose NOT to read it because of its length are not the people I am interested in at any rate.

As to your concern about charming NPCs, I do understand that. If a guard should see you snacking on some hapless mesmerized NPC in an alley, they should certainly attack. A vampire should have the responsibility of choosing their victim with care or suffer the consequences. And as the current ability to feed does NO damage to an NPC I would expect that to remain the case. To kill an NPC one has charmed, you would need to THEN initiate combat. And then, of course, it's game on.

AlexDougherty

MornaBaine wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Nothing in there that screams unfair or wrong, I'm dubious about letting Vampires charm NPCs, but as long as they don't kill, and they are secluded, and it doesn't work on PCs, ok.

But seriously, you need to shorten the length, it's like five or six times the length on the my screen, and that's just the text, not the pictures. I get that this is important to you, and you want to phrase everything right, but this skyscraper of text is off putting

As to the length, while posted on the forums for those interested to peruse, this was not written for the short attention span crowd. It was written for ZoS. The people who choose NOT to read it because of its length are not the people I am interested in at any rate.

As to your concern about charming NPCs, I do understand that. If a guard should see you snacking on some hapless mesmerized NPC in an alley, they should certainly attack. A vampire should have the responsibility of choosing their victim with care or suffer the consequences. And as the current ability to feed does NO damage to an NPC I would expect that to remain the case. To kill an NPC one has charmed, you would need to THEN initiate combat. And then, of course, it's game on.

OK, then I have no objection to that then. So long as it forces you to play carefully, it fits with the previous vamp styles .

Gyudan

These suggestions seem nice and all but some of them will probably take a lot of valuable development time to implement and I'd rather see ZoS focus on more pressing fixes and new content for everyone.
That being said, increasing the duration of stages 1-2-3 would be a step in the right direction.

MornaBaine

Gyudan wrote: »

These suggestions seem nice and all but some of them will probably take a lot of valuable development time to implement and I'd rather see ZoS focus on more pressing fixes and new content for everyone.
That being said, increasing the duration of stages 1-2-3 would be a step in the right direction.

As with all of my suggestions, there's no "Do this NAOW or I iz gunna unsub!" implied. I, too, want the game to be good in all aspects. Nor is this proposal an all or nothing one. Changing the Stage timers would be a HUGE step forward and one I'd be glad to see them do first before considering addressing the others.

MornaBaine

AlexDougherty wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Nothing in there that screams unfair or wrong, I'm dubious about letting Vampires charm NPCs, but as long as they don't kill, and they are secluded, and it doesn't work on PCs, ok.

But seriously, you need to shorten the length, it's like five or six times the length on the my screen, and that's just the text, not the pictures. I get that this is important to you, and you want to phrase everything right, but this skyscraper of text is off putting

As to the length, while posted on the forums for those interested to peruse, this was not written for the short attention span crowd. It was written for ZoS. The people who choose NOT to read it because of its length are not the people I am interested in at any rate.

As to your concern about charming NPCs, I do understand that. If a guard should see you snacking on some hapless mesmerized NPC in an alley, they should certainly attack. A vampire should have the responsibility of choosing their victim with care or suffer the consequences. And as the current ability to feed does NO damage to an NPC I would expect that to remain the case. To kill an NPC one has charmed, you would need to THEN initiate combat. And then, of course, it's game on.

OK, then I have no objection to that then. So long as it forces you to play carefully, it fits with the previous vamp styles .

Like many people, I'd like to see vampires become MORE challenging to play, not less. This doesn't mean I want them made weaker in combat but they should face additional mechanics challenges that are tied to them merely being a vampire in the first place. Now that said, it may seem that the current Stage timers do exactly that. But the problem is that the current feeding requirements simply aren't realistic and with the coming justice system they will be completely unfeasible when it is so easy to slip into Stage 4 so quickly.

aneova_ESO

If you want to be invisible like the nightblades, make the invisibility potion, it actually lasts longer then the skill. Nirnroot, Blue Enteloma make the 3 second, I forgot the other mushroom that gives it the 4 seconds.

wafcatb14_ESO

Make them KOS to city and outpost guards if in stage 4 Vamp .

BBSooner

1.) Agree, it should be more in tune with the stages decay of previous titles, regardless of the day/night cycle of ESO.

I'm not seeing a 2, so for the current 3: disagree. We should not be able to hide vampirism, hopefully if this is eventually changed it comes far down the line.

Current 4: charm. Charming NPCs, could be interesting and fun.

Feeding animation: I tend to agree, I'd like it change to a gap closer similar to the nightblade gap closer. And changed from a blood funnel to a bite. Adds some risk to the vampire biting in combat by not having the ability to do it at range.

Change stage 1 looks. Disagree that it should be changed.

Walking around in the sun: I'm fine with it mechanically, though I'd probably not be truly happy with it without having "cover ratings" given to all clothing and requiring the player meet a certain rating without taking sunlight penalties. Sans that, putting sunlight immunity as part of the effects from our bloodline is acceptable to me.

Vampire EMOTES: I'd like more emotes in game just in general.

Whisper292

Thoughts:

Morna, you know I've always agreed with your thoughts on vampire appearance, feeding times, and guards being able to attack vamps on sight, so I'll skip them. Also, I know nothing about PVP, so I'm skipping that as well.

Feeding animation: I totally agree with you on this. The current animation is horrible, and I would think there would be some way to show the bite instead of that awful blood thing.

Charming victims: Definitely, in hiding. If they get caught, they pay the consequences, but this ability would open up a lot of possibilities for the vamp. Also, I think it should be an active skill, like a spell, and the victim should have some sort of save chance.

As for being sensitive to sunlight, I think in Skyrim the vampire didn't actually take damage but their attributes were reduced with each stage. For instance, in Stage One, their health was reduced by 20% if they were outside during the day (no drop if they're inside). In Stage Two, it was 40%. I don't know if these are the actual numbers; I'm just using them as examples. A system like this would prevent vampires from dying in the sunlight but still make them more vulnerable to attack.

If they made vamps more sensitive to sunlight, I would hope they would change the hours in the day. Four hours of daylight and two of night drives me up the wall to begin with, and as a vamp sensitive to sunlight, I would have to cry "unfair." If vamps are more sensitive to the sun, the hours of the day should be evened out--three of daylight, three of night. Actually, even if they don't make vamps sensitive to sunlight, this needs to change.

This brings up another point that has nothing to do with vampires: ESO needs a clock. I know there are add-ons, but over time they become inaccurate. They just need to tell us what time it is, and with that, they could determine when a vampire is vulnerable and when he or she is not.

Verandis: Are you sure he doesn't say he was turned by Molag Bal? He says he's still in touch with his Maker, and then he comes in and says he made a deal with him. I know you have played this quest more recently than I have, and that you were paying close attention so you could use it as examples, so I'll trust your judgment on this. I may just be remembering it differently. In either case, I believe it is supposed to be assumed that Molly is his Maker.

The Skyrim wikis have quotes and complete dialogs from all the quests and characters. I hope that in time they ESO wikis will too.

As for Verandis being a Son of Coldharbour, lore never actually states that there are no Sons of Coldharbour, does it? It's conceivable that this could be a thing.

Vampire emotes? Definitely. Just more emotes in general would make me happy, but yes.

MornaBaine

BBSooner wrote: »

1.) Agree, it should be more in tune with the stages decay of previous titles, regardless of the day/night cycle of ESO.

I'm not seeing a 2, so for the current 3: disagree. We should not be able to hide vampirism, hopefully if this is eventually changed it comes far down the line.

Current 4: charm. Charming NPCs, could be interesting and fun.

Feeding animation: I tend to agree, I'd like it change to a gap closer similar to the nightblade gap closer. And changed from a blood funnel to a bite. Adds some risk to the vampire biting in combat by not having the ability to do it at range.

Change stage 1 looks. Disagree that it should be changed.

Walking around in the sun: I'm fine with it mechanically, though I'd probably not be truly happy with it without having "cover ratings" given to all clothing and requiring the player meet a certain rating without taking sunlight penalties. Sans that, putting sunlight immunity as part of the effects from our bloodline is acceptable to me.

Vampire EMOTES: I'd like more emotes in game just in general.

Thank you for spotting the numbering error. When I pasted this in from my original document it took out my spaces between paragraphs so when I went to put them back in it started messing with the numbering. I THOUGHT I had it straightened out but obviously not! LOL Anyway, that's been fixed now so you may wish to amend your own post to reflect the corrected numbering as well.

I'm still unclear as to why you are so adamant against anyone being able to hide their vampirism when it would be completely optional and you would be under no obligation to hide yours.

Changing Stage 1 looks, I'm kinda wishy-washy about it myself. While there are looks I would prefer I DO like the Stage 1 looks purely as a matter of aesthetics even while feeling that it is still far too obvious. BUT if they bring in a way for us to hide vampirism then I would have zero objection to leaving Stage 1 appearance as is.

MornaBaine

Whisper292 wrote: »

Thoughts:

Morna, you know I've always agreed with your thoughts on vampire appearance, feeding times, and guards being able to attack vamps on sight, so I'll skip them. Also, I know nothing about PVP, so I'm skipping that as well.

Feeding animation: I totally agree with you on this. The current animation is horrible, and I would think there would be some way to show the bite instead of that awful blood thing.

Charming victims: Definitely, in hiding. If they get caught, they pay the consequences, but this ability would open up a lot of possibilities for the vamp. Also, I think it should be an active skill, like a spell, and the victim should have some sort of save chance.

As for being sensitive to sunlight, I think in Skyrim the vampire didn't actually take damage but their attributes were reduced with each stage. For instance, in Stage One, their health was reduced by 20% if they were outside during the day (no drop if they're inside). In Stage Two, it was 40%. I don't know if these are the actual numbers; I'm just using them as examples. A system like this would prevent vampires from dying in the sunlight but still make them more vulnerable to attack.

If they made vamps more sensitive to sunlight, I would hope they would change the hours in the day. Four hours of daylight and two of night drives me up the wall to begin with, and as a vamp sensitive to sunlight, I would have to cry "unfair." If vamps are more sensitive to the sun, the hours of the day should be evened out--three of daylight, three of night. Actually, even if they don't make vamps sensitive to sunlight, this needs to change.

I think you are right about how "sun damage" was done in Skyrim. As to changing the day/night cycle, YES, I reallllllly wantthat to happen! Unfortunately, I don't think it will. When I did a poll regarding it I was surprised to find that a clear majority preferred that there be more daylight hours than darkness hours. I confess that I am still completely baffled by this! LOL

Whisper292 wrote: »

This brings up another point that has nothing to do with vampires: ESO needs a clock. I know there are add-ons, but over time they become inaccurate. They just need to tell us what time it is, and with that, they could determine when a vampire is vulnerable and when he or she is not.

Oh my stars, you have NO IDEA how badly I want a clock for this game!!!!

Whisper292 wrote: »

Verandis: Are you sure he doesn't say he was turned by Molag Bal? He says he's still in touch with his Maker, and then he comes in and says he made a deal with him. I know you have played this quest more recently than I have, and that you were paying close attention so you could use it as examples, so I'll trust your judgment on this. I may just be remembering it differently. In either case, I believe it is supposed to be assumed that Molly is his Maker.

My personal belief is that he probably was made by Molly. But it is merely implied and, that being the case, it can certainly be argues that Ravenwatch's vampiric origins remain mysterious and open to interpretation. The fact that he looks just like any other Stage 1 player vampire is what leads me to believe that he does, in fact, have Noxiphilic Sanguivoria. That implies a connection to Lamae...which would certainly be interesting. And might ALSO explain why Verandis is working against Molag Bal's interests while simultaneously making deals with him and hanging out in Coldharbor with him and putting a powerful magickal artifact in "safekeeping" there. Verandis is one giant boatlaod of contradictions...which is part of why I love him so! LOL

Whisper292 wrote: »

The Skyrim wikis have quotes and complete dialogs from all the quests and characters. I hope that in time they ESO wikis will too.

As for Verandis being a Son of Coldharbour, lore never actually states that there are no Sons of Coldharbour, does it? It's conceivable that this could be a thing.

Vampire emotes? Definitely. Just more emotes in general would make me happy, but yes.

When you pause to consider how one ends up BEING a Daughter of Coldharbor... let's just say any discussion of becoming a Son of Coldharbor is likely to get censored. Thus far, there has NEVER been any mention of Sons of Coldharbor. Doesn't mean they can't exist, just that no evidence supporting their existence is there.

As to emotes... I think there should be a batswarm emote! LOL

indigoblades

NICE POST !!!!! I concur with all your points and I will list my biggest problems with vamps.

1) The stages are WAY to short in time (5x too short).
2) Appearance at low stages is too hideous ... Stage 1 should look completely human. Stage 2 should look like stage 1 does now. If those two stages last hours i would be fine with vamps. Stage 3 could be unchanged or look like stage 2. If 4th stage is not changed that is fine with me, also.

1 & 2 are my biggest gripes. The player community's perception vamps are OP bugs me but there is little i can do but educate people on that.

3) The feeding animation doesnt bother me. I guess it could be improved but its not a problem to me. Its like the vampires in the strain which is interesting since i assume both dev. there vamp theme independently. Bloodrayne had a great rear attack feeding attack animation tho.

4) No sun damage doesn't bother me because in previous tes games a minor enchantment would completely offset it. If it is super lore breaking to some maybe a -2% HR in sunlight and a 4% MR increase at night. The night time benefit could be larger because nights are so short. Maybe smaller numbers like -1% HR at night and 2% MR in daylight. Either way it should get a plus during nighttime and be larger since nights are short. To be consistant with older TES titles these effects should be small to negligible, because they had no effect on me in either skyrim or oblivion.

I never was a fan of the TES vamps have somethings stronger when starved & somethings weaker when fully feed. If i made ESO, I would have gone with traditional vamp lore such that vampire is his strongest just after feeding and the longer they wait to feed the weaker they are. I would of said thats how this strain of vampirism works and new strains evolved in later era's more like the traditional TES vampire, whom has traits which are stronger when they are starved.... anyway its too late to change that.

indigoblades

Whisper292 wrote: »

This brings up another point that has nothing to do with vampires: ESO needs a clock. I know there are add-ons, but over time they become inaccurate. They just need to tell us what time it is, and with that, they could determine when a vampire is vulnerable and when he or she is not.

YES YES we want a clock !! Wykkyd clocks seems sinc'd to my computer time, which is sync'd by the internet .... but we should not need an add-on to know the time. At a min we should at least have a slash command like /real_time. for a clock. If u are talking game time not 100% sure i agree, since no one had watches back then.... but a sundial in major citys would be nice.

AlexDougherty

indigoblades wrote: »

Whisper292 wrote: »

This brings up another point that has nothing to do with vampires: ESO needs a clock. I know there are add-ons, but over time they become inaccurate. They just need to tell us what time it is, and with that, they could determine when a vampire is vulnerable and when he or she is not.

YES YES we want a clock !! Wykkyd clocks seems sinc'd to my computer time, which is sync'd by the internet .... but we should not need an add-on to know the time. At a min we should at least have a slash command like /real_time. for a clock. If u are talking game time not 100% sure i agree, since no one had watches back then.... but a sundial in major citys would be nice.

Open your map, the current time is displayed there, I use it to keep track of time when I am going somewhere.

Although a display clock option wouldn't hurt either.

MornaBaine

indigoblades wrote: »

Whisper292 wrote: »

This brings up another point that has nothing to do with vampires: ESO needs a clock. I know there are add-ons, but over time they become inaccurate. They just need to tell us what time it is, and with that, they could determine when a vampire is vulnerable and when he or she is not.

YES YES we want a clock !! Wykkyd clocks seems sinc'd to my computer time, which is sync'd by the internet .... but we should not need an add-on to know the time. At a min we should at least have a slash command like /real_time. for a clock. If u are talking game time not 100% sure i agree, since no one had watches back then.... but a sundial in major citys would be nice.

Yeah, we're talking about a game time clock. Even if we just had something that changed and said Morning, Afternoon, Evening, Night I would be super happy.

MornaBaine

indigoblades wrote: »

NICE POST !!!!! I concur with all your points and I will list my biggest problems with vamps.

1) The stages are WAY to short in time (5x too short).
2) Appearance at low stages is too hideous ... Stage 1 should look completely human. Stage 2 should look like stage 1 does now. If those two stages last hours i would be fine with vamps. Stage 3 could be unchanged or look like stage 2. If 4th stage is not changed that is fine with me, also.

1 & 2 are my biggest gripes. The player community's perception vamps are OP bugs me but there is little i can do but educate people on that.

3) The feeding animation doesnt bother me. I guess it could be improved but its not a problem to me. Its like the vampires in the strain which is interesting since i assume both dev. there vamp theme independently. Bloodrayne had a great rear attack feeding attack animation tho.

4) No sun damage doesn't bother me because in previous tes games a minor enchantment would completely offset it. If it is super lore breaking to some maybe a -2% HR in sunlight and a 4% MR increase at night. The night time benefit could be larger because nights are so short. Maybe smaller numbers like -1% HR at night and 2% MR in daylight. Either way it should get a plus during nighttime and be larger since nights are short. To be consistant with older TES titles these effects should be small to negligible, because they had no effect on me in either skyrim or oblivion.

I never was a fan of the TES vamps have somethings stronger when starved & somethings weaker when fully feed. If i made ESO, I would have gone with traditional vamp lore such that vampire is his strongest just after feeding and the longer they wait to feed the weaker they are. I would of said thats how this strain of vampirism works and new strains evolved in later era's more like the traditional TES vampire, whom has traits which are stronger when they are starved.... anyway its too late to change that.

Yeah I don't get the whole TES vampires-get-stronger-in-some-ways-when-they-are-starving schtick either. Totally nonsensical. Not sure what "genius" came up with that. But apparently we're stuck with it.

Whisper292

MornaBaine wrote: »

When you pause to consider how one ends up BEING a Daughter of Coldharbor... let's just say any discussion of becoming a Son of Coldharbor is likely to get censored. Thus far, there has NEVER been any mention of Sons of Coldharbor. Doesn't mean they can't exist, just that no evidence supporting their existence is there.

As to emotes... I think there should be a batswarm emote! LOL

Oh, dear God, I didn't even think of that. Okay, thinking about Verandis and a certain RPing hubby who was supposedly turned by Molly, we'll just leave this little conversation as it is...

indigoblades wrote: »

YES YES we want a clock !! Wykkyd clocks seems sinc'd to my computer time, which is sync'd by the internet .... but we should not need an add-on to know the time. At a min we should at least have a slash command like /real_time. for a clock. If u are talking game time not 100% sure i agree, since no one had watches back then.... but a sundial in major citys would be nice.

I do understand that no one had watches back then, but really, what is "back then"? We're not talking about Medieval Earth but a fantasy realm where, although there are rules, there is creative license as well. That being said, it just occurred to me that maybe you thought I was talking about clocks on the wall or something like that. I was talking specifically about a clock in the UI, not out in the game itself. I agree that that would break immersion.

I've gotten pretty good at figuring out the time by where the sun and shadows are, but a clock would be useful, especially for chars like vampires, who have some abilities that are more powerful at night. When does night start? At 7:00 pm? When is 7:00 pm? It's hard to go with light and dark because frankly, in canyons and lower places it stays dark longer than when you're out in the open or uphill.

As usual, I fall back to referring to Skyrim. Game time was clearly displayed, I think on the map, and it would be very helpful if we knew the correct in-game time in ESO.

phreatophile

Very, very Nice!
1.) Stage Timer: I have personally detailed how I would like to see the stages work in other threads. I'll be a boor and quote myself again:

phreatophile wrote: »

If I could design it:
Stage 1 lasts 2 hours. Appearance is mortal. Fire debuff 25%. Regens normal.

Stage 2 lasts 3 hours. Appearance deteriorates. Fire debuff 35%. All regens buff/debuff by 20% in darkness/daylight.

Stage 3 lasts 4 hours. Appearance further deteriorates. Fire debuff 45%. All regens buff/debuff by 30% in darkness/daylight. 'Straightlaced' questgivers/merchants shun you.

Stage 4 lasts. Appearance is fully undead. Fire debuff 55%. All regens buff/debuff by 40% in darkness / daylight. Everybody who isn't undead themselves, won't trade with you. Fighter's Guild and Guards attack you on sight.

Remove cost reduction of vampire abilities entirely or at least from Swarm Ult.

The whole thing takes 9 hours (1.5 ingame days) which makes sense for feeding.

2.) Hiding Vampirism: Morna, thank you pointing out the dialogue with Lamae, this ought to kill the argument, it won't, but it should. When you add the weight of all the other "special snowflakes" out there, hidden vampires become the norm rather than the exception storywise (yes I know there are all sorts of cave/ruin vamps out there, they don't look that off either). My take: stage 1(and only stage 1) vampires should be indistinguishable from regular mortals outside of extraordinary means (fighters guild abilities, anybody remember Januss Hassildor "he can't hide his nature from the mages guild") This could be expanded timewise or to Stage 2 with the use of a passive. I would really hate to see the use of some equipable macguffin.

3.) Charm/Vampiric Seduction: Lore friendly and needed when the justice system goes live. You cast it on your meal, they don't agro while you feed, as long as no one witnesses the act, you go on about your business. If they do witness feeding, some will immediately attack you and the guards will join in once alerted, some will run away screaming and alert the guards as they encounter them who will then attack. Should be usable in combat as a short term CC that is broken by damage of any kind.

4.) The Feeding animation: I'm surprised this hasn't been a bigger complaint for people. It looks like my character is performing some deviant act drinking from a garden hose. I want my character to bend right in and drink from the arterial flow.

5.) Stage 1: (see #1 and #2)

6.) Sunlight: (see above) This being an MMO, I can see why we don't take damage from sunlight. I think they could have had us take damage over time with a little smoke that was less than our regen was likely to be at the level of the intro quest and left our regen alone and had the same result as we do now, and it would shut up the "Vampires should burn to ash in the light crowd". If they would normalize the day/night cycle I would be all for meaningfull daylight penalties, as you can see from the quote above.

7.) Emotes: Yes please! I picture my character blades out and slightly back pointed down at an angle close to a capitol A, eyes and fangs flashing in the dim light, blood streaming off her chin, letting out a feral hiss when disturbed.

I hope this thread will encourage more reasonable discussion than some of the others. If for no other reason than the folks who wish to do no more than Troll will not read that impressive wall of text and their posts will be the obvious idiocy that we know and love and have almost no relevance to what the OP actually said.

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

Very, very Nice!
1.) Stage Timer: I have personally detailed how I would like to see the stages work in other threads. I'll be a boor and quote myself again:

phreatophile wrote: »

If I could design it:
Stage 1 lasts 2 hours. Appearance is mortal. Fire debuff 25%. Regens normal.

Stage 2 lasts 3 hours. Appearance deteriorates. Fire debuff 35%. All regens buff/debuff by 20% in darkness/daylight.

Stage 3 lasts 4 hours. Appearance further deteriorates. Fire debuff 45%. All regens buff/debuff by 30% in darkness/daylight. 'Straightlaced' questgivers/merchants shun you.

Stage 4 lasts. Appearance is fully undead. Fire debuff 55%. All regens buff/debuff by 40% in darkness / daylight. Everybody who isn't undead themselves, won't trade with you. Fighter's Guild and Guards attack you on sight.

Remove cost reduction of vampire abilities entirely or at least from Swarm Ult.

The whole thing takes 9 hours (1.5 ingame days) which makes sense for feeding.

2.) Hiding Vampirism: Morna, thank you pointing out the dialogue with Lamae, this ought to kill the argument, it won't, but it should. When you add the weight of all the other "special snowflakes" out there, hidden vampires become the norm rather than the exception storywise (yes I know there are all sorts of cave/ruin vamps out there, they don't look that off either). My take: stage 1(and only stage 1) vampires should be indistinguishable from regular mortals outside of extraordinary means (fighters guild abilities, anybody remember Januss Hassildor "he can't hide his nature from the mages guild") This could be expanded timewise or to Stage 2 with the use of a passive. I would really hate to see the use of some equipable macguffin.

3.) Charm/Vampiric Seduction: Lore friendly and needed when the justice system goes live. You cast it on your meal, they don't agro while you feed, as long as no one witnesses the act, you go on about your business. If they do witness feeding, some will immediately attack you and the guards will join in once alerted, some will run away screaming and alert the guards as they encounter them who will then attack. Should be usable in combat as a short term CC that is broken by damage of any kind.

4.) The Feeding animation: I'm surprised this hasn't been a bigger complaint for people. It looks like my character is performing some deviant act drinking from a garden hose. I want my character to bend right in and drink from the arterial flow.

5.) Stage 1: (see #1 and #2)

6.) Sunlight: (see above) This being an MMO, I can see why we don't take damage from sunlight. I think they could have had us take damage over time with a little smoke that was less than our regen was likely to be at the level of the intro quest and left our regen alone and had the same result as we do now, and it would shut up the "Vampires should burn to ash in the light crowd". If they would normalize the day/night cycle I would be all for meaningfull daylight penalties, as you can see from the quote above.

7.) Emotes: Yes please! I picture my character blades out and slightly back pointed down at an angle close to a capitol A, eyes and fangs flashing in the dim light, blood streaming off her chin, letting out a feral hiss when disturbed.

I hope this thread will encourage more reasonable discussion than some of the others. If for no other reason than the folks who wish to do no more than Troll will not read that impressive wall of text and their posts will be the obvious idiocy that we know and love and have almost no relevance to what the OP actually said.

Glad you enjoyed it and thank you for posting your idea on the Stages because I really like it and I'm glad it's now part of this thread. I do think my epic wall of text has perhaps fatally crited some of my more ardent stalkers...which is a good thing.

MornaBaine

So once again it's nothing but bad news for vampires in the patch notes. Hey ZoS, implementing some of this so we have some GOOD news for a change might be nice. Just sayin'.

astro74

My suggestion is:
We already have a bank and a guild bank so why not implement a blood bank aswell. That way vamps could simply go there to still their hunger?

MornaBaine

astro74 wrote: »

My suggestion is:
We already have a bank and a guild bank so why not implement a blood bank aswell. That way vamps could simply go there to still their hunger?

LOL True Blood for everyone! I have to admit it would be kind of cool if vamps could order a blood based drink while in taverns. That would certainly help out the RP crowd. Except of course for ones like me who hardly ever RP with my vampire in taverns. Still, it would be helpful to be able to buy drinks from the barkeep for vampires... so long as they were fairly expensive.

phreatophile

MornaBaine wrote: »

So once again it's nothing but bad news for vampires in the patch notes. Hey ZoS, implementing some of this so we have some GOOD news for a change might be nice. Just sayin'.

While irritating in principle, the Nerf to Devouring Swarm's healing doesn't really amount to very much. Not any kind of scientific test, but I can still stand in the middle of a bunch of VR mobs while it's up without fear. It doesn't really do enough damage to kill most things in VR though.

I may level up a werewolf now that they've gotten some love.

phreatophile

MornaBaine wrote: »

astro74 wrote: »

My suggestion is:
We already have a bank and a guild bank so why not implement a blood bank aswell. That way vamps could simply go there to still their hunger?

LOL True Blood for everyone! I have to admit it would be kind of cool if vamps could order a blood based drink while in taverns. That would certainly help out the RP crowd. Except of course for ones like me who hardly ever RP with my vampire in taverns. Still, it would be helpful to be able to buy drinks from the barkeep for vampires... so long as they were fairly expensive.

LOL. Might be a bridge too far for me. Vampires out of the coffin is probably THE problem with ESO. Not that it was serious. Once thieves dens are implemented I could see this happening there.

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

astro74 wrote: »

My suggestion is:
We already have a bank and a guild bank so why not implement a blood bank aswell. That way vamps could simply go there to still their hunger?

LOL True Blood for everyone! I have to admit it would be kind of cool if vamps could order a blood based drink while in taverns. That would certainly help out the RP crowd. Except of course for ones like me who hardly ever RP with my vampire in taverns. Still, it would be helpful to be able to buy drinks from the barkeep for vampires... so long as they were fairly expensive.

LOL. Might be a bridge too far for me. Vampires out of the coffin is probably THE problem with ESO. Not that it was serious. Once thieves dens are implemented I could see this happening there.

Oh I reallllly hate seeing vamps "out of the coffin" in this game as well. It's a large part of why I have made the suggestions I have. I WANT them to be secretive and sneaky dammit! LOL But since even King Emeric is secretly friendly with vampires I think it'd be kinda cool if you could go to the drink seller at a tavern and give them a code word and then they'd hook you up with "the good stuff." LOL But yeah, I'd also like to see a really creepy vamp merchant off in a cave away from civilized areas... just because it would be cool!

I'd also love to see a way to buy skooma and, when you take it, your character hallucinates. Anything from, "Ohhhh! Look at all the pretty colors!" to "OMG spiders EVERYWHERE! AUUUUUGHHHHHH!" heehee

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

So once again it's nothing but bad news for vampires in the patch notes. Hey ZoS, implementing some of this so we have some GOOD news for a change might be nice. Just sayin'.

While irritating in principle, the Nerf to Devouring Swarm's healing doesn't really amount to very much. Not any kind of scientific test, but I can still stand in the middle of a bunch of VR mobs while it's up without fear. It doesn't really do enough damage to kill most things in VR though.

I may level up a werewolf now that they've gotten some love.

Yeah I'm looking forward to trying out a werewolf now too. And while I'm not TOO upset about the latest beating with the nerf bat my poor vampire has taken, I would just really like to get some POSITIVE changes/additions to vampires for a change. The continual round of downgrades, no matter how small or well intentioned, just gets kind of depressing after awhile.

Kypho

Only improvement they need, is this:
They should die at daytime.

Vamps are OP as they are, dont screw it up more.