Some Suggestions for Improving Vampires

MornaBaine

Kypho wrote: »

Only improvement they need, is this:
They should die at daytime.

Vamps are OP as they are, dont screw it up more.

Ah, another person who appears to have not actually read the OP. Please do before bothering to comment again.

phreatophile

Kypho wrote: »

Only improvement they need, is this:
They should die at daytime.

Vamps are OP as they are, dont screw it up more.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Ah, another person who appears to have not actually read the OP. Please do before bothering to comment again.

phreatophile wrote: »

I hope this thread will encourage more reasonable discussion than some of the others. If for no other reason than the folks who wish to do no more than Troll will not read that impressive wall of text and their posts will be the obvious idiocy that we know and love and have almost no relevance to what the OP actually said.

I'm a prophet!
Who knew?

Kypho... If you bothered to read the OP, we aren't asking to be more powerful, just more interesting. In a number of situations we are asking to be less powerful and/or more inconvenienced.

Speaking for myself (possibly others)...
I want gimped regens in daylight/increased in the dark (by stage)
I want questgivers/merchants to start refusing me at stage 3
I want guards to attack me at stage 4 (own faction guards in Cyrodil too, IMHO)
I want to do away with the cost reduction on all Vamp abilities, especially the Ult.

Do try to keep up...

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

Only improvement they need, is this:
They should die at daytime.

Vamps are OP as they are, dont screw it up more.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Ah, another person who appears to have not actually read the OP. Please do before bothering to comment again.

phreatophile wrote: »

I hope this thread will encourage more reasonable discussion than some of the others. If for no other reason than the folks who wish to do no more than Troll will not read that impressive wall of text and their posts will be the obvious idiocy that we know and love and have almost no relevance to what the OP actually said.

I'm a prophet!
Who knew?

Kypho... If you bothered to read the OP, we aren't asking to be more powerful, just more interesting. In a number of situations we are asking to be less powerful and/or more inconvenienced.

Speaking for myself (possibly others)...
I want gimped regens in daylight/increased in the dark (by stage)
I want questgivers/merchants to start refusing me at stage 3
I want guards to attack me at stage 4 (own faction guards in Cyrodil too, IMHO)
I want to do away with the cost reduction on all Vamp abilities, especially the Ult.

Do try to keep up...

LOL I luv you. Have my undead children.

phreatophile

MornaBaine wrote: »

LOL I luv you. Have my undead children.

LOL! Just saw the other new thread. That setup would be a lot of fun.

And Edit: not your thread Morna.

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

LOL I luv you. Have my undead children.

LOL! Just saw the other new thread. That setup would be a lot of fun.

And Edit: not your thread Morna.

There are some pretty cool ideas regarding vampire abilities being knocked around right now. I hope some of them actually get some traction!

phreatophile

I think the quantum leap forward that werewolves recieved this time around may have opened the floodgates. The OP in the thread I was refering to certainly thinks that. It's been a mostly constructive conversation, which is pretty amazing.

Something I'll keep hammering away at when dumber responses pop up:

"Not more powerfull, more interesting"

ShadowHvo

By lore, Sons of Coldharbour is not a thing (yet), and we know it happens whenever a person has been defiled by Mapist B, and as far as the time itself have shown us, Mapist B is only interested in women.

That's not saying that Mapist B could never create one, I guess he could if he wanted to. We've just not seen it as of yet. But for now, all we have in lore is Daughters of Coldharbour.

Besides that, the male counterpart can be granted just the same amount of power throughout hard work and sacrifices. Just ala Harkon did. What Verandis did to earn his favor, I have no ideá about, but I bet it could be something ala the same. While Harkon is certainly no Son of Coldharbour, he is still as powerful, if not more than the Daughters of Coldharbour, at least when we look at him and his beloved daughter and wife.

Point is, by lore the only way to become a daughter of coldharbour is literally to get ravaged by Molag Bal, which we know for certain Harkon did not, and so far we've only seen women having their way with him (Unwillingly of course.)

As for Verandis, I highly doubt he is even close to noxiphilic sanguivoria. I simply believe that the devs didn't want to use more resources on creating multiple different vampiric bloodlines, so they just made a single one to use for them all to spare resources for other things.

While I strongly agree with many of your points, I still strongly disagree with the way you constantly put every single vampiric strain under the same roof, and demanding them to be the same.

I shall quote our small chat from my profile, which I'm certain you have yet to read:

ShadowHvo wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I'm no longer bumping those threads so I'll just answer you here privately regarding your unhappiness with my assertion that the way vampires work in ESO is lore breaking. 1. It doesn't matter that the lore that is being broken is "in the future" on the overall ES timeline. What matters is that those PREVIOUS games established the lore. 2. In those games a PLAYER VAMPIRE was not a freakish zombie-looking thing unless you A) managed to design them to be hideous at character creation or you allowed them to progress to the latter stages which took MUCH longer than in ESO and at which point they could no longer "pass" as mortal and were attacked.

THAT is what I mean by "lore breaking." I hope you understand now.

It's not a correct usage of "lore-breaking" however. We know with vampirism that there is several hundreds different strains, so having NS come in and change a few things here and there is no different from what Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim themselves did to the vampiric lore. All had their unique way of representing vampirism, simply because there is so many vampiric bloodlines that the developers can do whatever they now desire.

As said beforehand, I don't mind you're trying to get a cosmetic item to change the looks of the vampire to their normal mortal self. Hell I'm all in for that! But what I do mind is when you go in and claim that it's lore-breaking, because it doesn't fit your mindset of a TES vampire.

The vampires in ESO is not lore-breaking the slightest, it's a new bloodline addition to the excisting vampire lore. There is nothing lore-breaking or even lore-bending about how it works or functions, it's just that specific bloodline, and no other.

If they went in and said that all vampires were like that, then it would be lore-breaking, but that is not the case at all.

I myself believe it's all simply for balancing issues with the entire game since they don't want vampires or werewolves to be overpowered, because in that case everyone would be it. It's just poor design of mechanics in the end on the devs side if you ask me.

But at still, because they choose to create an entirely new bloodline (Which we know is very possible) instead of bringing in the exciting established bloodlines doesn't mean the new one is lore-breaking, it's just different, just like the previous established bloodlines are different to one another in their own ways.

Hell, you know I support a [snip] of the stuff you write, even the stuff which is highly passive aggresive. But for the love of all our kindred damnit, stop claiming something is lore-breaking JUST because it doesn't match your mindset of how vampires in TESO should be.

While Zenimax kinda screws themselves with the things Lamae says under the vampire quest, she is still right however: Despite the pale skin and glowing red eyes, vampires are still unnoticed by everyone. (Even other vampires which is awful....) While this is probably due to how the game is set up, I would still say that -IF- players did -NOT- know how a vampire looked like ingame, they would simply believe it was a mere Dunmer running around.

The problem is that WE as players KNOWS that is the specific look of how vampires looks ingame, which is why we automatically spot them all the time. BUT if we did not know, we wouldn't beware at all (Until of course they reach stage 3 -4, then it becomes more obvious)

The way that vampires can now be spotted by Evil Hunter is honestly fine, it's simple as it is: Vampires have always had one major weakness, and that's Detect Life OR Detect Undead. Because there has thus far, not been a single way for a vampire to avoid getting noticed/detected by these very spells. Which is why it's easy to explain that Evil Hunter simply grants the user Detect Undead.

People usually say that pictures says a thousand word, so I shall let the pictures do the talking.







The fun fact of the day: The only one of THESE vampires, who can NOT walk openly in the streets without getting detected as a vampire, is the lowest one to the left.

Hell, look at the pictures compared from Skyrim! The Woman was beautiful before, but at STAGE 1! She turned into horrors which not even ESO's character creation can make by itself, even funnier, in Skyrim they got more darker in their skintone, and not white as the other games. (It seems to depend a little from race to race, but the two chars showcased are Dunmer and Imperial.)

I guess Skyrim is a lore-breaker too then, if we have to go with the ideology of "If it changed from one game to another it's lore-breaking."

TL:DR
Just because it's different doesn't make it lore-breaking, espically because we know there is 100+ different bloodlines / strains we have even yet to hear about. So the developers can do whatever the hell they damn right please. It's an addition to the lore, nothing more and nothing less.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

MornaBaine

When -I- say "lore breaking" what I mean is a departure from the lore that has already been established in the previous games. Maybe I just don't see what you are seeing or maybe it's because I don't play Dunmer. But to me, the previous games did not have Stage 1 RADICALLY altering your character nor did I see player vampires who could walk unscathed in the sun. Nor did they descend to the monstrous-looking stages anywhere NEAR as quickly as they do in this game. Sure, other vampires that can do crazy things have been DESCRIBED in the lore...but they haven't been PLAYABLE. To have a PLAYABLE vampire so wildly depart from what we have known in the previous games is what -I- find to be 'lore breaking." However, since this seems to be your only point of contention with my suggestions, I suppose we can simply agree to disagree on this particular point.

naatokb14_ESO

First, I agree with so many of the things Morna has said in the OP that I'll just state I agree with the entire OP.

Looks:
I go out of my way to keep my vampire characters either hooded or out of direct lighting of any kind in order to better hide the Stage1 appearance we've been given.
Doing so makes it so my vamp doesn't stand out like a sore thumb, but it certainly does not HIDE the eyes. It merely makes them more difficult to see from a distance.

We should be able to HIDE vampirism. I had to LOL at Paul's answer to Morna's question on the Live Stream about hiding vampire appearance. So they have no plans to address THEIR OWN NPC CODED conversation from Lamae who states that vampires hide within the general population, because rote key-push PvPers wholly addicted to the WoW model of MMO gaming need to be able to tell when they're facing a vampire in Cyrodiil? ROFLMAO!!!

They already HAVE that capability through add-ons! And apparently they now have that capability through the Fighter's Guild skill.

If it were possible from a game mechanic point of view, I'd spend my time trying to find Paul's main and INFECT him with vampirism for even attempting to brush aside the 'vampire disguise' question how he did.

MornaBaine

naatokb14_ESO wrote: »

We should be able to HIDE vampirism. I had to LOL at Paul's answer to Morna's question on the Live Stream about hiding vampire appearance. So they have no plans to address THEIR OWN NPC CODED conversation from Lamae who states that vampires hide within the general population, because rote key-push PvPers wholly addicted to the WoW model of MMO gaming need to be able to tell when they're facing a vampire in Cyrodiil? ROFLMAO!!!

:

My greatest fear is that what they will actually do is go back and just change what she says. If that happens, I'm done here.

phreatophile

@ZOS_PaulSage‌ seemed taken aback by the question. Don't really think Vampires or Werewolves have ever been on his radar. The shoddy implementation from day one is evidence enough of this. If they could have gotten away with it, I don't think either would be in ESO at all.

Now, between the sad joke they made of werewolves (jury is still out on 1.5) and the mess they made of their PVP with silly ultimate generation making Sorc and DK crazy overpowered if they're vampires they are buffing this nerfing that when the whole concept needs an overhaul. They will probably rearange deck chairs on the Titanic for many more months too.

Imagine if they had implemented Weres and Vamps properly, it's easy to see how this could have been done, but they took the "this is an MMO" route to laziness.

Could have been so much better.
Daylight penalties/damage (fewer FoTM player vamps, inconvenience is like...well, sunlight to a vampire for many)

The ability to contract from any vampire/werewolf npc (avoid the CF in lvl 40 zones that we had at launch, with jerks killing spawns and selling bites at high prices)

The ability to pass it on to other players incidentaly in combat. (sml thing, but makes it a hazard to engage, mostly lore)

Shun at stage 3. (fewer FoTM player vamps)

Kill on sight at stage 4. (fewer FoTM player vamps)

Not letting poorly thought out synergies make god characters.(fewer FoTM player vamps)

These ought to have been there at release, and would have meant far fewer problems for ZOS if they were.

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

@ZOS_PaulSage‌ seemed taken aback by the question. Don't really think Vampires or Werewolves have ever been on his radar. The shoddy implementation from day one is evidence enough of this. If they could have gotten away with it, I don't think either would be in ESO at all.

Now, between the sad joke they made of werewolves (jury is still out on 1.5) and the mess they made of their PVP with silly ultimate generation making Sorc and DK crazy overpowered if they're vampires they are buffing this nerfing that when the whole concept needs an overhaul. They will probably rearange deck chairs on the Titanic for many more months too.

Imagine if they had implemented Weres and Vamps properly, it's easy to see how this could have been done, but they took the "this is an MMO" route to laziness.

Could have been so much better.
Daylight penalties/damage (fewer FoTM player vamps, inconvenience is like...well, sunlight to a vampire for many)

The ability to contract from any vampire/werewolf npc (avoid the CF in lvl 40 zones that we had at launch, with jerks killing spawns and selling bites at high prices)

The ability to pass it on to other players incidentaly in combat. (sml thing, but makes it a hazard to engage, mostly lore)

Shun at stage 3. (fewer FoTM player vamps)

Kill on sight at stage 4. (fewer FoTM player vamps)

Not letting poorly thought out synergies make god characters.(fewer FoTM player vamps)

These ought to have been there at release, and would have meant far fewer problems for ZOS if they were.

Could not possibly agree more! And yeah it really did seem like Sage was completely clueless that anyone might be less than thrilled with vampires as they are. LOL I have to wonder if he has any idea even now.

phreatophile

To be unaware the people are unhappy with Vampires. Why that would be the most tin-eared, tone deaf, head in the sand...whatever.

I thought of another Vampire emote that would be a lot of fun. /coffinlie and /coffinstand. Big props if we can use it to stand/lie in the stone sarcophagi in a lot of the ruins or if it has it's own sarcophagus like that /sit emote with it's own throne.

WraithAzraiel

I just want to look normal(by that I mean I want my character to look as he did at creation, sure screw with his eye color, that won't bother me) at stage 1. I'm not difficult.


They better give Vampires and werewolves some love when they finally unveil housing.

Valen_Byte

Can I get some cliff notes for this?

MornaBaine

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Can I get some cliff notes for this?

Nope.

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

To be unaware the people are unhappy with Vampires. Why that would be the most tin-eared, tone deaf, head in the sand...whatever.

I thought of another Vampire emote that would be a lot of fun. /coffinlie and /coffinstand. Big props if we can use it to stand/lie in the stone sarcophagi in a lot of the ruins or if it has it's own sarcophagus like that /sit emote with it's own throne.

THAT would be fantastic! LOL Possibly even better... if we could hang upside down like bats like in The Lost Boys. Hmmmm... showing my age there, aren't I? LOL

Whisper292

MornaBaine wrote: »

THAT would be fantastic! LOL Possibly even better... if we could hang upside down like bats like in The Lost Boys. Hmmmm... showing my age there, aren't I? LOL

This might be okay, except their toenails were . . . ew. And if they were hanging by their toenails and woke up and just flew out of the lair, when did they put their boots on? They were not fighting those guys barefoot. Just sayin'.

phreatophile

Whisper292 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

THAT would be fantastic! LOL Possibly even better... if we could hang upside down like bats like in The Lost Boys. Hmmmm... showing my age there, aren't I? LOL

This might be okay, except their toenails were . . . ew. And if they were hanging by their toenails and woke up and just flew out of the lair, when did they put their boots on? They were not fighting those guys barefoot. Just sayin'.

Willing suspension of disbelief. Sometimes it's just more fun. The average action movie would be mostly reloading if they were going for accuracy.

I'd love to be able to hang from the roof of a cave or crypt like that, but it would be entirely too tempting to hang up high where no one looks and ambush people in Cyrodil delves.

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

Whisper292 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

THAT would be fantastic! LOL Possibly even better... if we could hang upside down like bats like in The Lost Boys. Hmmmm... showing my age there, aren't I? LOL

This might be okay, except their toenails were . . . ew. And if they were hanging by their toenails and woke up and just flew out of the lair, when did they put their boots on? They were not fighting those guys barefoot. Just sayin'.

Willing suspension of disbelief. Sometimes it's just more fun. The average action movie would be mostly reloading if they were going for accuracy.

I'd love to be able to hang from the roof of a cave or crypt like that, but it would be entirely too tempting to hang up high where no one looks and ambush people in Cyrodil delves.

Plus if you're wearing a skirt... could be awkward! LOL

phreatophile

MornaBaine wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Whisper292 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

THAT would be fantastic! LOL Possibly even better... if we could hang upside down like bats like in The Lost Boys. Hmmmm... showing my age there, aren't I? LOL

This might be okay, except their toenails were . . . ew. And if they were hanging by their toenails and woke up and just flew out of the lair, when did they put their boots on? They were not fighting those guys barefoot. Just sayin'.

Willing suspension of disbelief. Sometimes it's just more fun. The average action movie would be mostly reloading if they were going for accuracy.

I'd love to be able to hang from the roof of a cave or crypt like that, but it would be entirely too tempting to hang up high where no one looks and ambush people in Cyrodil delves.

Plus if you're wearing a skirt... could be awkward! LOL

My poor poor keyboard! It hates coffee spray.

WraithAzraiel

MornaBaine wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Whisper292 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

THAT would be fantastic! LOL Possibly even better... if we could hang upside down like bats like in The Lost Boys. Hmmmm... showing my age there, aren't I? LOL

This might be okay, except their toenails were . . . ew. And if they were hanging by their toenails and woke up and just flew out of the lair, when did they put their boots on? They were not fighting those guys barefoot. Just sayin'.

Willing suspension of disbelief. Sometimes it's just more fun. The average action movie would be mostly reloading if they were going for accuracy.

I'd love to be able to hang from the roof of a cave or crypt like that, but it would be entirely too tempting to hang up high where no one looks and ambush people in Cyrodil delves.

Plus if you're wearing a skirt... could be awkward! LOL

Or awesome..... unattractive medieval tightie-whities FOR EVERYOOOOONE

phreatophile

Scratch that, no unattractive medieval tightie-whities. That's a cause for celebration too, if...

poodlemasterb16_ESO

"It's dead Jim"

Hamfast

MornaBaine wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: "Can I get some cliff notes for this?"

Nope.

I wanted to point out that this IS the cliff notes

clayandaudrey_ESO

Could we have a passive that boosts vp errr xp err vp whatever back to pre 1.5 levels? That would be cool for vamps.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Hamfast wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: "Can I get some cliff notes for this?"

Nope.

I wanted to point out that this IS the cliff notes

qft

MornaBaine

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

"It's dead Jim"

Nope. It's undead. Ergo, eternal.

phreatophile

That reminds me we really do need and undead horse or a non-combat bat form for travel, or we should be able to feed on the live horse in a pinch.

Vizier

Totally support section one regarding the time between phases and feeding schedule. The current system is prohibitive and immersion breaking. It's one of the reasons I don't like playing a vampire.

With the ability of fighters guild members to identify vampires via a passive skill I could care less how you look. If there is an optional non XP generating quest line that would cater to your desire to be an unblemished vampire I wouldn't object.

Way too Effing attached to this idea though. Good grief. Think about your readers a little more and less of yourself. Nobody wants to read that wall of text.

Vamps should be exiled from the fighters and mages guilds though with their own passive to identify vampires.