Update 6 - the last nail in the coffin for sorcerer DPS/Healer in PVE

GreyBrow · November 2014

Gyudan wrote: »

In fact, the question is: what is the primary role of each class, and how can a player leverage this primary role to get the best of his character

Hmmmmm. I think a 3rd grader could answer this question, is such a pity that the developers seem unable (or unwilling) to answer it.

Sorcerer = sorcerer = sorcerer = sorcerer. Sorcs do magic and not much else. The "Sorc" Archetype is the glass cannon with huge DPS. Pretty horrible that most sorcs I know are being pushed into stamina builds because they're more viable pretending to be a nightblade than actual nightblades.

Nightblade = blade = blade = blade. come on, its in the name!

dragonknight = dragon + knight = hmmm. dragons kill stuff, knights use swords ....duh?

templar = religious knight = healer with a sword.

Am I really the only one who has an ounce of common sense?

Gyudan · November 2014

GreyBrow wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

In fact, the question is: what is the primary role of each class, and how can a player leverage this primary role to get the best of his character

I didn't write that.

DezIsDead wrote: »

They have catered to whoever complained the most. But at this point I'm willing to scream and cry in the forums to not have to reroll a third VR toon to be competitive in PvP and endgame.

That was one of the goals of this thread. Hopefully it will be taken into account for update 6.

eserras7b16_ESO · November 2014

Lol MATE

BEFORE complaining: [snip] wait to see what they say it's obvious they'll do more than this, they'll try so it is balanced, there's a long way to Update 6 give it few weeks.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

GreyBrow · November 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

I knew this would be coming when they caved into the whiners and nerfed BE.

I actually thought it was cool that Sorcs and NBs didn't have a self heal while Temps and DKs did. Sorcs weren't supposed to stand and fight, they were supposed to run (the same way NBs can with Dark Cloak.)

Now they have no class based self-heal and no way to escape.

The overall balance "strategy" (quotations because I doubt they have one) is baffling.

It seems that they just respond to whatever is being complained about at the time on the forums.

I've been QQing the state of the sorc since june/july, and have been met with criticism and trolling at every opportunity... So I just rolled a DK and now I pull 1500-2k DPS single target.

I'm so glad people are starting to see reason. The sorc isn't just underpowered, it's borderline non-functional. Only 3-4 of its class abilities are actually worth using... and not just because of the numbers attached to the skills. You can buff the numbers of all those abilities to 10000000 and I will still hate every single one of them, because the way they function is so horrible. The mechanics of those skills makes them not viable.

My experience went something like this:

"Daedric summoning master? Yeah that sounds cool like the other elder scrolls games."

Bound armor/clannfear/twilight/magelight

"Hmm... I really enjoy playing the game with 65% of my max magicka and only 2/10 skills available."

"Okay, this is horrible. What else can I do? Oh, crushing shock seems like it's doing well."

"Hmm, well at least I broke the 1k DPS mark"

*DK Friend links DPS*

"So you're telling me that the archetype I want to play is so horrendously executed that I had to switch to something else at VR1 to complete content, and even though I did that, I'm still half as good as that guy? Screw that"

*Rolls DK, hit vr14, put on the same gear as my sorc, and hit 1.6k single target DPS the first time I walk into AA*

If you can't beat em, join em

DezIsDead · November 2014

GreyBrow wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

I knew this would be coming when they caved into the whiners and nerfed BE.

I actually thought it was cool that Sorcs and NBs didn't have a self heal while Temps and DKs did. Sorcs weren't supposed to stand and fight, they were supposed to run (the same way NBs can with Dark Cloak.)

Now they have no class based self-heal and no way to escape.

The overall balance "strategy" (quotations because I doubt they have one) is baffling.

It seems that they just respond to whatever is being complained about at the time on the forums.

I've been QQing the state of the sorc since june/july, and have been met with criticism and trolling at every opportunity... So I just rolled a DK and now I pull 1500-2k DPS single target.

I'm so glad people are starting to see reason. The sorc isn't just underpowered, it's borderline non-functional. Only 3-4 of its class abilities are actually worth using... and not just because of the numbers attached to the skills. You can buff the numbers of all those abilities to 10000000 and I will still hate every single one of them, because the way they function is so horrible. The mechanics of those skills makes them not viable.

My experience went something like this:

"Daedric summoning master? Yeah that sounds cool like the other elder scrolls games."

Bound armor/clannfear/twilight/magelight

"Hmm... I really enjoy playing the game with 65% of my max magicka and only 2/10 skills available."

"Okay, this is horrible. What else can I do? Oh, crushing shock seems like it's doing well."

"Hmm, well at least I broke the 1k DPS mark"

*DK Friend links DPS*

"So you're telling me that the archetype I want to play is so horrendously executed that I had to switch to something else at VR1 to complete content, and even though I did that, I'm still half as good as that guy? Screw that"

*Rolls DK, hit vr14, put on the same gear as my sorc, and hit 1.6k single target DPS the first time I walk into AA*

If you can't beat em, join em

I will not join them! Lol I already grinded enough of the VR ranks I don't want to do anymore dumb *** caldwells silver and gold since they broke mob grinding in crag. I want to compete with the toon I put days of game time into. I'm not attacking you btw lol just saying I already tried that strategy when I bailed on my NB. Not doing it all over again, I would rather unsub and wait a year for another game I won't name on here to launch.

Vahrokh · November 2014

seanvwolf wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Also why us sorcs who actually rolled the archetypal class meant to be "cloth and staff", do it worse than other classes using cloth and staff and we keep getting nerfed because of those classes keep being overpowered so the more you nerf them, the more we go low?

Elder Scrolls archetypal class for Sorcerer uses heavy armor. Check your lore.

Actually, you should flip your remark to Zenimax: ESO heavy armor is complete and useless garbage for a sorc so we have to use light armor anyway. So much for their own lore.

Aeratus · November 2014

GreyBrow wrote: »

"Hmm, well at least I broke the 1k DPS mark"

*DK Friend links DPS*

"So you're telling me that the archetype I want to play is so horrendously executed that I had to switch to something else at VR1 to complete content, and even though I did that, I'm still half as good as that guy? Screw that"

*Rolls DK, hit vr14, put on the same gear as my sorc, and hit 1.6k single target DPS the first time I walk into AA*

If you can't beat em, join em

lol clearly exaggerating. I hope ZOS sees through this QQ.

Don't tell me this crap about DKs getting 2k dps. Show me a 2k parse on on any final boss of AA, HR, or any main boss in vet DSA or SO.

1.6k single target on storm atro? Sorc can get that too, and if you don't know how, the problem isn't with sorc.

Erock25 · November 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

GreyBrow wrote: »

"Hmm, well at least I broke the 1k DPS mark"

*DK Friend links DPS*

"So you're telling me that the archetype I want to play is so horrendously executed that I had to switch to something else at VR1 to complete content, and even though I did that, I'm still half as good as that guy? Screw that"

*Rolls DK, hit vr14, put on the same gear as my sorc, and hit 1.6k single target DPS the first time I walk into AA*

If you can't beat em, join em

lol clearly exaggerating. I hope ZOS sees through this QQ.

Don't tell me this crap about DKs getting 2k dps. Show me a 2k parse on on any final boss of AA, HR, or any main boss in vet DSA or SO.

1.6k single target on storm atro? Sorc can get that too, and if you don't know how, the problem isn't with sorc.

Well I think the point is DK can get 2k on storm atro while I personally haven't heard of any Sorc topping 1.6k. Are you really trying to argue that DK isn't top dog when it comes to DPS? I would think you agree that DK and NB are at the top and Sorc is 3rd so I'm not sure what the point of your post was.

Vahrokh · November 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

lol clearly exaggerating. I hope ZOS sees through this QQ.

Don't tell me this crap about DKs getting 2k dps. Show me a 2k parse on on any final boss of AA, HR, or any main boss in vet DSA or SO.

1.6k single target on storm atro? Sorc can get that too, and if you don't know how, the problem isn't with sorc.

Actually Greybrow seem to know how this game works, whereas neither you nor ZOS seem to, at all.

Here's the average raiding sorc story:

- Guild new to trials: they (used to) bring in up to 4 sorcs. Why? Because they have a low DPS ceiling but reach it quicker than other classes reach theirs.
Low ultimate generation also requires sorcs to perform "rotations" with negates.
- As the guild progresses up, the sorcs become 3, then 2 and finally 1. Why? Because they are just a monster dead weight, the less you bring the quicker the runs. Whereas templars improve their healing at last (yeah, little consolation but it's better than a kick in the face), sorcs just lose terrain vs everyone else and that's it.

My guilds story:
- Began with 6 sorcs competing for 4 or so spots. We learned VERY FAST that sorcs were just an hindrance. Get 4 sorcs to AA and you barely kill the third boss. It shall be already casting his "raid kill explosion" when (if) she dies.
- With 2 sorcs, it may die before it even summons the third adds wave, that is in THE DPS check encounter, sorcs hinder the raid so much that it loses a good 30 seconds over a fight that might last like 3 minutes. Sounds little? It's not. By replacing a fully gold geared sorc with a mediocre NB / DK you have "peace of mind" about utterly destroying the 3rd boss and thus easily kill the last.
- The other 4 sorcs? Of course they quit the game. Getting discarded for a NB / DK alt who can outDPS you with one arm is not taken well by many.
- And the next to go is me. The other sorc is "off heal spec" so he can regenerate a very quick negate again and again so I am getting pointless to bring in as we speak. I am not willing to effectively nerf my guild progress because of my selfish desire to participate.

Game's not only made by vamp streak spamming PvP sorcs. It's also made by a ton of PvE guys who feel and ARE utterly useless by the day.

Aeratus · November 2014

Sure, DK and NB pulls higher than sorc in terms of dps, but your story just doesn't make any sense.

You're saying that an AA group with 4 sorcs can barely even get past the 3rd AA boss? lol the 3rd boss only requires an average of 500 dps to beat. I get 950-1k dps on the 3rd AA boss on my sorc in groups without war horn. This is enough to blow through the 3rd boss before the second explosion even occurs. So maybe the problem with your sorcs is that they weren't any good.

Vahrokh · November 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Sure, DK and NB pulls higher than sorc in terms of dps, but your story just doesn't make any sense.

You're saying that an AA group with 4 sorcs can barely even get past the 3rd AA boss? lol the 3rd boss only requires an average of 500 dps to beat. I get 950-1k dps on the 3rd AA boss on my sorc in groups without war horn. This is enough to blow through the 3rd boss before the second explosion even occurs. So maybe the problem with your sorcs is that they weren't any good.

Of course, out of 6 sorcs they were ALL played by bad players whereas if you pick 6 random NBs and DKs they are played by superior IQ and skill guys who just blow through content.

And of course this is server wide, every raiding guild phase out their sorcs in droves because they are ALL bad, whereas the replacement DKs and NBs are geniuses at work.

Murmeltier · November 2014

Wow, i see too many irritating Themes here. At the End it is frustrating that we should talk over 1.6 and the eventually Changes for all Classes, not only for Sorcerers, but ok the OP wants to see it more to the Sorcerers.

Only an easy Example. I read here often, do your Math/a decent Sorcer try to max out his Weapondamage and needs Surge and with 1.6 he cant use it, so he cant max out anything?! Help me out please.

Example -

Sorcerer uses following Things for max out his Staffdamage -

Before 1.6 -

Weapondamage on -
Sets
Jewels
Surge

(This works only on Weaponskills)

They try to reach a Range between Softcap/Hardcap.

After the (we dont know 100% excactly) 1.6 -

Spelldamage on -
Sets
Jewels
Magicka instead of Surge

(This works on Staffskills/Classskills, not 100% sure)

and now help me, but i mean IF (maybe i dont understand this right) max Magicka counts on a Staff, it would give more Spelldamage than Surge helps before on Weapondamage, or not?

And if not, you can put all your Stats in Spelldamage and reach the same Cap before but for sure then Surge isnt as good as before, right. But than you have defineteley more Spelldamage than before and thats good for the Classskills, how bad they ever are.

Or do you have maxed out Spell AND Weapondamage before 1.6, i dont know?

What is wrong with this, it is a pure Advantage and we talk over ONE (sure a nice one) Spell. Maybe the Sorcerer needs Support but this changes are very good for all and not bad for the Sorcerers because Surge wont fit in.

I am not an Expert in Numbers but what is wrong with that, please explain this to me

.

Aeratus · November 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Sure, DK and NB pulls higher than sorc in terms of dps, but your story just doesn't make any sense.

You're saying that an AA group with 4 sorcs can barely even get past the 3rd AA boss? lol the 3rd boss only requires an average of 500 dps to beat. I get 950-1k dps on the 3rd AA boss on my sorc in groups without war horn. This is enough to blow through the 3rd boss before the second explosion even occurs. So maybe the problem with your sorcs is that they weren't any good.

Of course, out of 6 sorcs they were ALL played by bad players whereas if you pick 6 random NBs and DKs they are played by superior IQ and skill guys who just blow through content.

And of course this is server wide, every raiding guild phase out their sorcs in droves because they are ALL bad, whereas the replacement DKs and NBs are geniuses at work.

Wouldn't surprise me if they (or some other characters in your trials group) weren't well played. I've seen some pretty bad stuff out there. I've been seen both sorcs and dks fail to pull 500-600 dps.

In any case, in the end it's all down to hard numbers. I've given you my numbers, and it is plainly clear that 950 dps sorc on 3rd AA boss can easily get on the weekly leader boards without any problem.

My NB does more dps than my sorc, but saying that sorc isn't viable is just plainly incorrect.

AlexDougherty · November 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Sure, DK and NB pulls higher than sorc in terms of dps, but your story just doesn't make any sense.

You're saying that an AA group with 4 sorcs can barely even get past the 3rd AA boss? lol the 3rd boss only requires an average of 500 dps to beat. I get 950-1k dps on the 3rd AA boss on my sorc in groups without war horn. This is enough to blow through the 3rd boss before the second explosion even occurs. So maybe the problem with your sorcs is that they weren't any good.

Of course, out of 6 sorcs they were ALL played by bad players whereas if you pick 6 random NBs and DKs they are played by superior IQ and skill guys who just blow through content.

And of course this is server wide, every raiding guild phase out their sorcs in droves because they are ALL bad, whereas the replacement DKs and NBs are geniuses at work.

I wonder what this says about me, I'm playing all the classes, although not at VR12 yet. Does this mean I'm both terrible and amazing, or just amazingly terrible?

:

AelyinESO · November 2014

it's time to @Zenimax give more love to Sorcerers and Vampires.

Gyudan · November 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Sure, DK and NB pulls higher than sorc in terms of dps, but your story just doesn't make any sense.

You're saying that an AA group with 4 sorcs can barely even get past the 3rd AA boss? lol the 3rd boss only requires an average of 500 dps to beat. I get 950-1k dps on the 3rd AA boss on my sorc in groups without war horn. This is enough to blow through the 3rd boss before the second explosion even occurs. So maybe the problem with your sorcs is that they weren't any good.

Of course, out of 6 sorcs they were ALL played by bad players whereas if you pick 6 random NBs and DKs they are played by superior IQ and skill guys who just blow through content.

And of course this is server wide, every raiding guild phase out their sorcs in droves because they are ALL bad, whereas the replacement DKs and NBs are geniuses at work.

I wonder what this says about me, I'm playing all the classes, although not at VR12 yet. Does this mean I'm both terrible and amazing, or just amazingly terrible? :

[SARCASM][/SARCASM]

It's amazing how terrible you are!

apostate9 · November 2014

Uber_Lord wrote: »

So a sneaky stamina NB wears medium armor. Sneak attack damage is nerfed now. Ambush and concealed weapon will no longer crit from weapon damage. Maybe all NB class skills should use stamina then? I don't even know.
The best solution would be to remove classes alltogether.
This one hopes spellcrafting will replace classes and allow us to play like in Skyrim and previous TES games.

You mena all the previous TES games that had classes? Until Skyrim dumbed it down?

Demira · November 2014

GreyBrow wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

I knew this would be coming when they caved into the whiners and nerfed BE.

I actually thought it was cool that Sorcs and NBs didn't have a self heal while Temps and DKs did. Sorcs weren't supposed to stand and fight, they were supposed to run (the same way NBs can with Dark Cloak.)

Now they have no class based self-heal and no way to escape.

The overall balance "strategy" (quotations because I doubt they have one) is baffling.

It seems that they just respond to whatever is being complained about at the time on the forums.

I've been QQing the state of the sorc since june/july, and have been met with criticism and trolling at every opportunity... So I just rolled a DK and now I pull 1500-2k DPS single target.

I'm so glad people are starting to see reason. The sorc isn't just underpowered, it's borderline non-functional. Only 3-4 of its class abilities are actually worth using... and not just because of the numbers attached to the skills. You can buff the numbers of all those abilities to 10000000 and I will still hate every single one of them, because the way they function is so horrible. The mechanics of those skills makes them not viable.

My experience went something like this:

"Daedric summoning master? Yeah that sounds cool like the other elder scrolls games."

Bound armor/clannfear/twilight/magelight

"Hmm... I really enjoy playing the game with 65% of my max magicka and only 2/10 skills available."

"Okay, this is horrible. What else can I do? Oh, crushing shock seems like it's doing well."

"Hmm, well at least I broke the 1k DPS mark"

*DK Friend links DPS*

"So you're telling me that the archetype I want to play is so horrendously executed that I had to switch to something else at VR1 to complete content, and even though I did that, I'm still half as good as that guy? Screw that"

*Rolls DK, hit vr14, put on the same gear as my sorc, and hit 1.6k single target DPS the first time I walk into AA*

If you can't beat em, join em

My friend, I have been screaming since beta about the Sorcerer class...I truly can relate!

Nightreaver · November 2014

stewie_801 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

I'll restate this again because it's been buried by previous posts. Spell damage scales more than weapon damage. If you increase weapon damage by 10, you will see yourself doing 10 more damage. If you increase spell damage by 10, your spells will be doing at least 20 more damage. So if Destro scaled off of spell damage, 130 spell damage might actually be stronger than the current 200 weapon damage.

@Nightreaver you should probably read this again with that. Just because the spell damage soft cap is lower doesn't mean they are a 1-1 ratio on how they affect your damage. 135 could be equal to 205. So depending on how they adjust everything crit surge and the other morph , you could still have the same numbers for crushing shock and impulse.

Yeah, that was posted while I was replying to a response posted shortly before it so I didn't see that one until after I posted. So now with a better understanding I will concede that his could potentially result in an increase rather than a decrease and thank you both for enlightening me.

Aeratus wrote: »

My NB does more dps than my sorc, but saying that sorc isn't viable is just plainly incorrect.

In 15 years of playing MMOs, one of the few things that have remained constant across all games is the definition of DPS balance between classes.

Viable = DPS done by different class that is less than the DPS of your class.
Viable (lesser) DPS should always be accepted by all other classes.
Someone with lesser DPS than your own is a clear indication that the player needs to L2P.

OP = DPS done by a different class that is greater than the DPS of your class.
OP (greater) DPS should never be allowed by any other class.
Someone with greater DPS than your own is a clear indication that he is using OP skills.

Someone whose DPS is lower than someone else's will never think of their own as "viable".
The only people who want DPS to be equal are the ones whose DPS is less than equal.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · November 2014

Maybe critical surge will be good for sorca who like to use melee weapons and the skills for them.... like they can now.

My only question, to @ZOS_JoeBlackburn‌, will you add more abilities to the weapon lines or change various class spells to cost stamina instead of magicka. Because skills such as lava whip, ambush, etc, would be better off costing stam and going by stam rules.

Rune_Relic · November 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Maybe critical surge will be good for sorca who like to use melee weapons and the skills for them.... like they can now.

My only question, to @ZOS_JoeBlackburn‌, will you add more abilities to the weapon lines or change various class spells to cost stamina instead of magicka. Because skills such as lava whip, ambush, etc, would be better off costing stam and going by stam rules.

I think it really depends on them classifying the classes.
DK = Health / Fighter guild
NB = Stamina / Assassin guild
Sorc = Magicka / Mage guild

If this is not the aim goal of the classes and they are supposed to be generic..
..then the only option is to have 1x magicka tree + 1x stamina tree + 1x health tree for all the classes.

ericprydz82ub17_ESO · November 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

lol clearly exaggerating. I hope ZOS sees through this QQ.

Don't tell me this crap about DKs getting 2k dps. Show me a 2k parse on on any final boss of AA, HR, or any main boss in vet DSA or SO.

1.6k single target on storm atro? Sorc can get that too, and if you don't know how, the problem isn't with sorc.

Actually Greybrow seem to know how this game works, whereas neither you nor ZOS seem to, at all.

Here's the average raiding sorc story:

- Guild new to trials: they (used to) bring in up to 4 sorcs. Why? Because they have a low DPS ceiling but reach it quicker than other classes reach theirs.
Low ultimate generation also requires sorcs to perform "rotations" with negates.
- As the guild progresses up, the sorcs become 3, then 2 and finally 1. Why? Because they are just a monster dead weight, the less you bring the quicker the runs. Whereas templars improve their healing at last (yeah, little consolation but it's better than a kick in the face), sorcs just lose terrain vs everyone else and that's it.

My guilds story:
- Began with 6 sorcs competing for 4 or so spots. We learned VERY FAST that sorcs were just an hindrance. Get 4 sorcs to AA and you barely kill the third boss. It shall be already casting his "raid kill explosion" when (if) she dies.
- With 2 sorcs, it may die before it even summons the third adds wave, that is in THE DPS check encounter, sorcs hinder the raid so much that it loses a good 30 seconds over a fight that might last like 3 minutes. Sounds little? It's not. By replacing a fully gold geared sorc with a mediocre NB / DK you have "peace of mind" about utterly destroying the 3rd boss and thus easily kill the last.
- The other 4 sorcs? Of course they quit the game. Getting discarded for a NB / DK alt who can outDPS you with one arm is not taken well by many.
- And the next to go is me. The other sorc is "off heal spec" so he can regenerate a very quick negate again and again so I am getting pointless to bring in as we speak. I am not willing to effectively nerf my guild progress because of my selfish desire to participate.

Game's not only made by vamp streak spamming PvP sorcs. It's also made by a ton of PvE guys who feel and ARE utterly useless by the day.

Just looking at the top AA time on NA server and I am seeing 5, yes 5, sorcs on the top leaderboard time. Not only is it the best time but it is the best time by a mile: 8m41s750ms compared to the next best time which is 9m12s140ms.

Sorcs can pull amazing single target just so you know. Everyone is looking at total damage and not effective damage and that is what is wrong with about 90% of this thread.

The new gear from CoA and many of the new 2pc sets work exceptionally well for sorcs also and I am 100% sure sorcs will get enough love in 1.6 to keep them very competitive in the end game.

Gyudan · November 2014

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just looking at the top AA time on NA server and I am seeing 5, yes 5, sorcs on the top leaderboard time. Not only is it the best time but it is the best time by a mile: 8m41s750ms compared to the next best time which is 9m12s140ms.

Current best EU for AA (8m11s) and Hel Ra (7m57s)
- 6 nightblades
- 4 dragonknights
- 2 sorcerers
- 0 templars

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs can pull amazing single target just so you know. Everyone is looking at total damage and not effective damage and that is what is wrong with about 90% of this thread.

Please feel free to enlighten us. Post a video of yourself as a sorcerer in trials/arena doing more DPS than the best DKs or Nightblades. Share your knowledge!

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

The new gear from CoA and many of the new 2pc sets work exceptionally well for sorcs also and I am 100% sure sorcs will get enough love in 1.6 to keep them very competitive in the end game.

I don't think that the new sets particularly benefit sorcerers. For example, the 2 pieces set from City of Ash (the only one that can be acquired in full VR14 at the moment) only procs on damage over time effects.
Guess what sorcerers don't have among their list of abilities? Yep, damage over time ...

Samadhi · November 2014

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

[...
Just looking at the top AA time on NA server and I am seeing 5, yes 5, sorcs on the top leaderboard time. Not only is it the best time but it is the best time by a mile: 8m41s750ms compared to the next best time which is 9m12s140ms.
...

5 Sorcerers
3 Dragonknights
3 Templars
1 Nightblade

Interesting team composition at top rank.

xaade · November 2014

So, it looks like staves will increase spell damage, right?

If this all is true, then they need to introduce some stat diversity into class skills.
Absolutely no reason for all class to be based on spell damage, spell crit, and more, when you have nothing buffing that when you wear a sword.

I don't want to level staff just so my class skills scale.

Tanis-Stormbinder · November 2014

It would be nice if the Sorcerers class get's a spammable spell of their own (one that scales on spell damage) and critical surge be made to buff spell damage. The spell could be place in the destruction staff tree but only accessible if your a sorcerer. It's disheartening to see a DK or NB pick out a stave and be able to use the same spell a sorcerer uses as his main damage output.

ericprydz82ub17_ESO · November 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

[...
Just looking at the top AA time on NA server and I am seeing 5, yes 5, sorcs on the top leaderboard time. Not only is it the best time but it is the best time by a mile: 8m41s750ms compared to the next best time which is 9m12s140ms.
...

5 Sorcerers
3 Dragonknights
3 Templars
1 Nightblade

Interesting team composition at top rank.

Besides the horse jump we weren't able to mount again after that at all because we were all stuck in combat. Kinda why our time wasn't better but we were only going for top weekly leaderboard.

Vahrokh · November 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Sure, DK and NB pulls higher than sorc in terms of dps, but your story just doesn't make any sense.

You're saying that an AA group with 4 sorcs can barely even get past the 3rd AA boss? lol the 3rd boss only requires an average of 500 dps to beat. I get 950-1k dps on the 3rd AA boss on my sorc in groups without war horn. This is enough to blow through the 3rd boss before the second explosion even occurs. So maybe the problem with your sorcs is that they weren't any good.

In any case, in the end it's all down to hard numbers. I've given you my numbers, and it is plainly clear that 950 dps sorc on 3rd AA boss can easily get on the weekly leader boards without any problem.

My NB does more dps than my sorc, but saying that sorc isn't viable is just plainly incorrect.

The difference being, sorcs have to play like a champion and spend a gazillion in pots to get to 950 DPS (with full gold gear then they'll pull above that but not a lot) whereas a PUG DK does 1k with no potion at all. Once a trial is on farm status people stop spending a capital to repeat the same instance again and again and this ends up showing sorcs dropping to plebs level while DKs and NBs don't flinch.

Vahrokh · November 2014

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

It would be nice if the Sorcerers class get's a spammable spell of their own (one that scales on spell damage) and critical surge be made to buff spell damage. The spell could be place in the destruction staff tree but only accessible if your a sorcerer. It's disheartening to see a DK or NB pick out a stave and be able to use the same spell a sorcerer uses as his main damage output.

All it takes is a 3 points sorc class only, passive ability that "fills the DPS gap" when using a staff. That would immediately promote sorcs as "best staff user" whereas other classes would not lose the staff option but would not be so massively superior as sorcs' own signature weapon and spells.

I mean: it's already bad for a DPS class to be irrimediably inferior to others.
It's just an unfair slap in the face to see those others classes achieve such superiority by using your own abilities, weapons and gear.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · November 2014

Rune_Relic wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Maybe critical surge will be good for sorca who like to use melee weapons and the skills for them.... like they can now.

My only question, to @ZOS_JoeBlackburn‌, will you add more abilities to the weapon lines or change various class spells to cost stamina instead of magicka. Because skills such as lava whip, ambush, etc, would be better off costing stam and going by stam rules.

I think it really depends on them classifying the classes.
DK = Health / Fighter guild
NB = Stamina / Assassin guild
Sorc = Magicka / Mage guild

If this is not the aim goal of the classes and they are supposed to be generic..
..then the only option is to have 1x magicka tree + 1x stamina tree + 1x health tree for all the classes.

Sooo... make dk skills cost health :? If you are thinking that then know if the game star ocean: till the end of time. They thought making health a common attack resource was a good idea too but that game ended up being so bad because of it. Its a bad idea, period. Health is for taking hits ant the occasional conversion skill to attack resources, thats it.