The point is there are hundreds of builds that can stand up to LA/DK/RS Spammers. SORCS even.

They just aren't crit crushing shock sorcs.

I never once said L2P, I don't think I have EVER said L2P in the manner you are suggesting.

My point, the only point I have ever tried to make is that there are viable alternatives presented to you that will allow you to completely own a DK using reflective scales, they just are not the particular way you would like to play the sorc.

Preemptively, yes there have been statements made about 'play as you want', but that is not this topic, this topic is 'broken' reflective scales.

yodased wrote: »

The point is there are hundreds of builds that can stand up to LA/DK/RS Spammers. SORCS even.

They just aren't crit crushing shock sorcs.

I never once said L2P, I don't think I have EVER said L2P in the manner you are suggesting.

My point, the only point I have ever tried to make is that there are viable alternatives presented to you that will allow you to completely own a DK using reflective scales, they just are not the particular way you would like to play the sorc.

Preemptively, yes there have been statements made about 'play as you want', but that is not this topic, this topic is 'broken' reflective scales.

show me one build that works at range, or without Shield and sword.

Include Videos

So you want me to show you a build that specifically breaks the one thing that reflective scales does?

To beat them you use what they are weak against, to beat you they use what you are weak against.

The skill reflects ranged attacks, how can I possibly show a ranged build that defeats a purposefully built anti-range build?

You realize that anti-aircraft guns suck against c4 right? They will destroy an F-14 really quick though.

They are SPECIFICALLY built for one thing, and that one thing is to defeat the build you choose to play, maybe that sucks for you, but that doesn't mean its broken is all I'm saying.

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Someone help me understand why players do not have enough skill so they quote me and rant on a thread of how reflect needs to be nerfed to the ground instead of taking the time to practice and make a build strong enough to "beat" reflect.

Sometimes I wonder why people even bother to post stuff without reading beforehand.
Also, you keep speaking of "skill", rather amusing I must admit, in this context.

Some of you people only saw "reflective scales" the title of the thread, and went to work with your comments.

yodased wrote: »

Lets just change the tooltip to 'ranged' attacks and move on. You expect me to believe that this entire issue is stemming from word choice? Come on, its obvious that the build being played is not able to kill the build they want to kill.

Should I go on and explain what ranged attacks are? And which skills count as such? You'll be surprised I bet.
I want to see you all defending Reflective Scales when it turns into a perma-immunity from ALL ranged attacks, for minimal cost, without spamming restrictions - and not only for a rather vague group of "projectile attacks" as it is now the case.


But again, that is NOT my point. I'm fine with how the ability works as of now. There ARE counters to it. I'm not desperately trying to force a specific built to work.
I've got a VR dragonknight myself, utilizing that cookie cutter build everyone in their right mind tends to run, simply because its effective. I've killed multiple higher VR people alone, been there, done that all.
I also have a VR sorcerer. Cookie cutter build again (trust me, I've tried all kinds of different things. None is more effective against DKs). S/S, curse, streak, executioner. Killed DKs, got killed, been there, done that. Not my point again.

We all know build diversity is an overall problem right now, this has nothing to do with my interpretion of this topic.

My point is simply, as you put it (and might not believe) consistency.
Not only with reflective scales. With every ability. In time, I know.

I see that this will take time, I'm not shouting out for nerfs or changes or whatever. Clarification, and with a little bit of luck even a "we plan to do this and that in the future".

I really don't like all this negative L2P attitude, if you all would be so kind to stop that, and participate in a proper discussion with valid arguments and counters.
It would make all this way more entertaining, fun, and meaningful.

yodased wrote: »

I'll just have to take you guys on your word that you care this much about semantics and "transparency" of world mechanics then.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but honestly its hard to believe that people care this much about inferred vs verified information.

Well, to me and I'm sure many others aswell, understanding a game and it's mechanics, the "why"s and "how"s is part of enjoying and playing a game.

You can play a game without knowing all of its rules nowadays, I see many people doing that, even successfully some might say - but for me, that simply does not feel right.

Well I can only speak for myself, but yes, a clarification that crushing shock is indeed correctly classified as a projectile (now, ignoring the fact that this term is not appropriate as I've tried to explain earlier, which can and did lead to confusion) would be satisfying.

Again, I'm not speaking of balancing skills. We all know there are skills (or builds, weapons, armorsets, you see where I'm going there) that are by far more effective, or offer more synergy to one another, and thus are used more than others - which obviously is bad for diversion. This is not part of this topic in my eyes.
To achieve true diversion is very hard (if not unachievable), and will take time.

well its 1 skill that lasts for 4 seconds and you have every opportunity to negate this skill just like everyone else.

They use wings, you close and stun. They go melee, you retreat and range. They use wings you close and stun. They go melee you retreat and range.

The fact that people want to be able to range an unrangeable is odd.

The skill negates ranged attacks, don't use them.

edit:

"...but....but...but, I WANNA RANGE THEM"

tough cookies? I am not seeing the issue I guess, this is my main problem I think. I don't get why you don't just adapt around it and do what others do to kill them.

If you are dead set on playing only one way, then don't engage those who can completely negate that style of playing.

If you want to adapt and change your playstyle based on your opponent, then you will win.

If the skill is working as intended, I don't see any problem with it (aside from the fact that DK's are the most powerful class).

However... what we do need is an OFFICIAL list with all the spells that Reflective Scales reflect, because at the moment too many people do not know what they can/can't use against reflective scales.

yodased wrote: »

you negate RS with 1h+S or 2h. You refuse to do this, so you personally don't negate RS.

Well yeah you can charge in and try to beat the DK with a melee weapon, but there is also a good chance they will just switch to Sword&Board (if they aren't already using it) and beat the crap out of you because they are just n°1 at turtle defense power spam.

If I see a DK using Reflective Scales I launch my two little friends Dark Shades and then begin an attack with the NB ability Swallow Soul and Mages Guild ability Degeneration. In addition I will launch a continual barrage of Razor Catropts. None of those attacks are reflected since they are not projectiles. Of course I am not one on one. I wait in the shadows and assist other players who are going one on one. My attacks widdle him down quite easily. Many a DK has been taken down that way. It's all about figuring out what works against what. As a NB the Marcus of Queens Berry rules do not apply its back stab combat as much as possible.

Not a DK, and reflective works just fine the way it is.

Leave it be, bow user now signing off

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

The issue for me is that Reflective Scale reflects all ranged attacks (projectiles) when it really shouldn't. It just shouldn't. Not without any restriction. What you are left with are DKs that simply spam the spell. Sorcerers were perceived to do this with Bolt Escape and the nerf bat came flying in without a second thought. There is no balance with the spell and no DK is willing to admit it.

DKs excel at close range more so than any other class. They have the defense and damage at close range that no other class can match. The old tactic used to be Fiery Grip where they would pull you in and pummel you. Nobody does that anymore since they figured out that all they have to do is stand there and let you kill yourself with your own spells and arrows.

Please explain to me where the balance is? Yeah there are work-arounds for this and I certainly kill plenty of them, but we are talking about a class with no real weaknesses. I notice these people that defend Reflective Scale are the same ones who are calling for nerfs on Lethal Arrow and crying that they get one-shotted from it. Basically they want to walk around like indestructible PvP gods and cry if anyone challenges that role.

Quoted for Truth

I would like to add that the "DKs cant do ranged" arguement is also complete bunk.

I have been encountering tons of Bow using DKs who offhand a shield.. there is literally nothing you can do against them. with any build you will be in their quick kill range and have no way to counter attack.