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Reflective Scales Will you ever fix it?

Gorthax
Gorthax
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Seriously, how does it still reflect non projectile spells? @ZOS_AJ‌ @ZOS_PaulSage‌ Will it ever work properly, or will it always shut down a good good chunk of spells/skills?
  • TehMagnus
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    Yeah, there are some fire/electricity balls that can't be reflected in PVE, please fix this.

    For the rest, I think it's working as intended, aka reflecting projectiles :).
    Edited by TehMagnus on November 12, 2014 4:21PM
  • cazlonb16_ESO
    cazlonb16_ESO
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    Basically everything being classified a projectile is the one problem that needs to be fixed to make DKs balanced in PvP.
  • Gorthax
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    crushing shock is not a projectile.....explain that magnus, sometimes my pet (when it will actually work and do damage) will get reflected when he explodes lol but nothing comes back on me and the DK takes no damage. There are far more examples out there.
  • apostate9
    apostate9
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    Mods,

    Please close this thread.

    Thx.
  • Pyatra
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    I don't like the fact that it reflects light/heavy attacks from staffs. If it scaled off Spell Power I would concede on that one but as it scales off Weapon Damage I feel a little iffy on that.
  • apostate9
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    Light and heavy attacks from staff are....projectiles.
    Right?
  • Gorthax
    Gorthax
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    Why apostate, dont want reflective scales getting hit? There are skills that are NOT projectiles being reflected. How is that not in need of fixing? light and heavy attacks from PROJECTILE elements I agree with. Lightning doesnt get reflected because it is NOT a projectile weapon attack. Certain spells being reflected STILL is what I am taking about especially ones that are NOT projectiles. So why close the thread?
  • Xeniph
    Xeniph
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    You do realize that the skill is working as intended?

    Tooltip reads:

    Reflects ALL projectiles for 4.0 seconds.


    Now while I agree it needs something done, you must be getting it confused with Defensive Posture and it's morphs, which only reflect spell projectiles.

    I run Defensive Posture on my NB when I run a ranged magicka build. Quite funny to see Funnel health or Crippling Grasp bounce back and forth, finally landing on the DK with +30% damage. lol

    Ps. I do agree that they need to revert to the former definition of "Projectile" pre-1.5. But they modified it to fix Silver Bolts, which added a lot more skills than I think were intended.
    Edited by Xeniph on November 12, 2014 6:51PM
    Here since Beta.

    Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.
  • Gorthax
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    no no no, crushing shock is NOT a projectile.....volatile familiar, NOT a projectile (though that one is random and does not always get reflected)
  • Maulkin
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    Gorthax wrote: »
    no no no, crushing shock is NOT a projectile.....volatile familiar, NOT a projectile (though that one is random and does not always get reflected)

    Crushing shock is currently a projectile in the game. It might not look like one but it is one.

    If I get this right your complain is not about scales, but about making more abilities to be non-projectiles especially if they don't appear to be projectiles?
    EU | PC | AD
  • Gorthax
    Gorthax
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    Yes. Do not nerf anything! But fix everything else.
  • prototypefb
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    this spell is too OP and should be changed to either use 75-90% users magicka or reflect 1 projectile per second top
  • Orchish
    Orchish
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    Are you sure it's reflecting crushing shock? Certainly doesn't seem like it does for me.
  • Gorthax
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    yes, i went one on one with multiple DK's and when they use RS and I use CS, it says reflected three times. No damage to him, no damage to me. I am not the only one in my guild seeing this either. I even tested it out on my buddies DK in a different faction.
  • Gorthax
    Gorthax
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    this spell is too OP and should be changed to either use 75-90% users magicka or reflect 1 projectile per second top

    I dont think that would help lol higher cost + high spell cost reduction would eventually balance it back out to what it is now

  • SRIBES
    SRIBES
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    Great, another reflect thread. To clear things up
    •Anything that flies through the air is a projectile. If it does not fly through the air, it is not a projectile.
    •Also I believe only one of the tri attacks from crushing shock is reflected but I could be wrong, I know it used to be this way.
    This is the DKs defense spell, every class has it and every class needs it.
    DK= Reflect and Cinder
    Templar= blazing shield, blinding flashes
    NB= shadow image, sap essence
    Sorc= Streak, negate
    It's all about using the right spec and playing well. The people I see most whine about reflect are sorcs which only have one projectile ability and if they play smart they shouldn't have a problem with DK. Templar has 2 projectiles back can use theor single target reflect which will reflect it back at DK and NB has cripple and funnel health which they also have to use wisely. People whining about the skill on the thread need to l2P.
  • Gorthax
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    AsweetRoll wrote: »
    Great, another reflect thread. To clear things up
    •Anything that flies through the air is a projectile. If it does not fly through the air, it is not a projectile.
    •Also I believe only one of the tri attacks from crushing shock is reflected but I could be wrong, I know it used to be this way.
    This is the DKs defense spell, every class has it and every class needs it.
    DK= Reflect and Cinder
    Templar= blazing shield, blinding flashes
    NB= shadow image, sap essence
    Sorc= Streak, negate
    It's all about using the right spec and playing well. The people I see most whine about reflect are sorcs which only have one projectile ability and if they play smart they shouldn't have a problem with DK. Templar has 2 projectiles back can use theor single target reflect which will reflect it back at DK and NB has cripple and funnel health which they also have to use wisely. People whining about the skill on the thread need to l2P.

    again, another person NOT getting it....crushing shock is NOT a freaking projectile.......yet it STILL reflects all three... how do I know?! Because it says reflectedx3 when it gets reflected. Yes sorcs have streak, but that got f-ed over because people were complaining.


    People complaining about a skill that shuts down spells and skills it SHOULDNT automatically get ridiculed lol I hope HOPE they do to GDB and RS exactly like they did to BE. You spam it you pay more magicka. Would be awesome to see that :D the tears would be amazing. Maybe then not everyone would be playing a DK S&B in pvp lol



    Edited by Gorthax on November 12, 2014 9:29PM
  • dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO
    dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO
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    AsweetRoll wrote: »
    Great, another reflect thread. To clear things up
    •Anything that flies through the air is a projectile. If it does not fly through the air, it is not a projectile.
    •Also I believe only one of the tri attacks from crushing shock is reflected but I could be wrong, I know it used to be this way.
    This is the DKs defense spell, every class has it and every class needs it.
    DK= Reflect and Cinder
    Templar= blazing shield, blinding flashes
    NB= shadow image, sap essence
    Sorc= Streak, negate
    It's all about using the right spec and playing well. The people I see most whine about reflect are sorcs which only have one projectile ability and if they play smart they shouldn't have a problem with DK. Templar has 2 projectiles back can use theor single target reflect which will reflect it back at DK and NB has cripple and funnel health which they also have to use wisely. People whining about the skill on the thread need to l2P.

    For the most part I agree, sorcs also have hardeded ward which is strong with high health.
    But to say nobody should complain about certain skill, even when it appears to not be working as stated, that's just trolling.
    So nobody should have complained that silver bolts was getting 100% procs at one point? Nobody should mention that some skills are uncapped aoe when everything has a cap and that's not balanced?
    Saying Boohoo Nerf reflect cost I don't want to make any adjustments to fight them is silly, but if its reflecting non projectile, and its a fact that it has(eg mages fury explosion), people should be talking about it.
  • Gorthax
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    See I am not saying nerf it. I do NOT want a nerf. I want things to not be reflected that shouldnt be reflected. That one skill can shut down a sorc. Sorry to say it but it does. Unless you are melee sorc. I am not. Yes sorcs have curse....woooo......break out stops it. mages fury? Sure, if you want to spam it.

    DoT? Laughable, anyone can move out of the way OR stand in it and heal through it. Crushing shock? Nope its reflected. Destructive reach? Nope reflected (this one I agree with as it IS a projectile). Pets? dont even get me started.

    This literally leaves sorcs with no way to get around one move all because the skill is broke. Sure I could use bolt escape to deal a few hundred damage to him. It usually works. But, well, magicka goes bye bye very quickly trying to damage him with that. Yea I get it, it is a who can last longer game. Drain their stamina then BE the hell out of em. sooooo much fun lol (sarcasm).

    For a long time the only answer to things from ZoS is nerf nerf nerf. I want properly working skills and buffs. That is all. If everyone keeps doing cookie cutter and not making a fuss over stuff like this then ZoS will never be held accountable.

    Even now the only other way to get around RS was volatile familiar. Guess what....BROKE! He doesnt do any damage lol I made a post on that already. So go ahead, tell me I am begging for nerfs. Tell me I need to L2P. The truth is I am not begging for nerfs and I do not need to L2P. I want to hold ZoS accountable for NOT fixing broke a55 stuff in their game and only making it worse. I love eso!! I want it to thrive! It will NOT thrive in its current condition at this rate.
  • Leeric
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    Gorthax wrote: »
    Seriously, how does it still reflect non projectile spells? @ZOS_AJ‌ @ZOS_PaulSage‌ Will it ever work properly, or will it always shut down a good good chunk of spells/skills?

    That would nerf DKs and we can't have that...
  • Gorthax
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    lol exactly :P DK's dont want to be fixed. They want to stay gods all day long. PVP is nothing but DK's (vast majority of players)...its sad when you go to take a keep and see 30+ DK's all running out flapping their wings, wipe your "raid" party, then run back in the keep. Wonder if ZoS is even looking at their stats for pvp....
  • Sharee
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    AsweetRoll wrote: »
    Great, another reflect thread. To clear things up
    •Anything that flies through the air is a projectile. If it does not fly through the air, it is not a projectile.

    Restoration staff heavy attack burrows it's way to the target under the ground, i guess?

  • Gorthax
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    It must do something of that sort :D
  • Leeric
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    Sharee wrote: »
    AsweetRoll wrote: »
    Great, another reflect thread. To clear things up
    •Anything that flies through the air is a projectile. If it does not fly through the air, it is not a projectile.

    Restoration staff heavy attack burrows it's way to the target under the ground, i guess?

    I don't think he understands what ZOS classifies as a projectile in game and what a projectile is in common terms can mean 2 different things.
  • TehMagnus
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    I think it's working as intended and as @Attorneyatlawl‌ clearly put it, you should L2P your class.

    Many others are killing DKs everyday and aren't QQing about it. If your build relies on skills that can be reflected then change it.
  • TequilaFire
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    "A projectile is any object that once projected or dropped continues in motion by its own inertia and is influenced only by the downward force of gravity. By definition, a projectile has a single force that acts upon it - the force of gravity."

    Quote source is www.physicsclassroom.com.

    Now the only debate is magical energy an "object" and is it affected by gravity?

  • Gorthax
    Gorthax
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    Not sorcs, and if it is a sorc then someone else did all the damage OR the DK they are facing was not using a cookie cutter. I can destroy non cookie cutter dks all day. Why does everyone resort to L2P lol I dont need to learn to play. I am simply asking for them to fix the broken a55 ***. NOT NERF! FIX!

    Read my previous post about sorc skills. I clearly know how to play a sorc as it is just a resource game when fighting a DK. My point is is that ONE skill shuts down an entire class......because it is broke. Sorcs lack the skills and abilities to fight a DK. DoT is laughable and easily out healed. Even when trying to apply all three. Those three are, in case you dont know, wall of elemenets, lightning splash, and lightning form.

    Even with all three applied it is impossible to do real damage. the ones that ARE killing DK cookie cutters as a sorc are more than likely using melee builds. I do NOT want to play a melee build thank you. Crushing shock was the ONLY skill that was at a sorcs disposal that would be effective against a DK flappy bird. That and the sorcs exploding pet. But guess what, that doesnt do damage anymore. Do you see the issue?? Or is this still a L2P thing.....because I am telling you I do not need to L2P.

    So how bout adding to the discussion instead of copping out and being the cookie cutter response huh
  • Gorthax
    Gorthax
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    "A projectile is any object that once projected or dropped continues in motion by its own inertia and is influenced only by the downward force of gravity. By definition, a projectile has a single force that acts upon it - the force of gravity."

    Quote source is www.physicsclassroom.com.

    Now the only debate is magical energy an "object" and is it affected by gravity?

    L2P, games do not follow the rules of physics! *end sarcasm*
  • Ironfyre
    Ironfyre
    AsweetRoll wrote: »
    Great, another reflect thread. To clear things up
    •Anything that flies through the air is a projectile. If it does not fly through the air, it is not a projectile.

    This is not how projectiles are defined. One would have to define "fly" as something where the main force acting is, in our case, gravity, which in some cases applies, in most however, not. Im not even going to mention the fact that you said fly through the "air".

    Take a bird for example, as long as its not flapping its wings, its acting as a projectile because its following a projectile motion. As soon as it does flap its wings, its no longer a projectile by definition. In both cases the bird is flying.
    Now, you could argue that rockets are considered projectiles even though they are self propelled, and I would have to say that is only the case if they follow a projectile motion, and then we could probably argue about many other things.


    Anyway I'm drifting off: beams of light, just like magic beams or rays as one would assume, do not follow a projectile motion(* ).
    As there is no definition in the description of a skill wether and how its affected by gravity or not, or if it follows a projectile motion, so the only way we can assume wether a skill is a projectile or not is through its animation.
    In our cases:

    Crystal Fragment: magically formed crystals, which (most likely) are going to have a specific mass, thus affected by gravity -> projectile. Can be reflected? Yes, working as intended. Now you could argue that one morph follows a projectile motion while the other doesn't, but we'll let the DKs have that one, shall we?

    Force Shock (and its morphs): magical beam of light or energy (the effects are fire, lightning and frost damage, which itself makes little sense in real world physics). The animation can show it bending in all directions, meaning it is not affected by gravity nor does it follow a projectile motion -> not a projectile. Should not be reflected.




    (* ) Now mind you, in fact gravity, or better, gravitational mass, DOES affect light in a certain way, according to Einsteins special relativity. You can read up on detail about that, overly simplified though: gravity bending space, light still moves straight -> looks bent.
    Now, I doubt this fact changes the definition of projectiles in our case though, because if we go that much into detail we could see that the definition of a projectile itself is flawed and not perfectly viable to define skills (especially if a undefined component such as magic comes into play).



    TLDR: Force shock should not be reflected, because of science.
    The laws of physics do not have to apply to magic - this is why the correct definition of wether something is a projectile or not, in the end, is up to the game designers - like everything else.

    TLDR_TLDR: They gon' do whatevs they feel like works for them anways. Meanwhile, here's a picture of a goat. A goat is not a projectile.

    Domestic_goat_kid_in_capeweed.jpg

    Well, most of the time that is.



    Edited by Ironfyre on November 13, 2014 4:13PM
    EU|DC - Custodian, Sorcerer | A'shen Ironfyre, Dragonknight
  • Gorthax
    Gorthax
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    Ironfyre wrote: »
    AsweetRoll wrote: »
    Great, another reflect thread. To clear things up
    •Anything that flies through the air is a projectile. If it does not fly through the air, it is not a projectile.

    This is not how projectiles are defined. One would have to define "fly" as something where the main force acting is, in our case, gravity, which in some cases applies, in most however, not. Im not even going to mention the fact that you said fly through the "air".

    Take a bird for example, as long as its not flapping its wings, its acting as a projectile because its following a projectile motion. As soon as it does flap its wings, its no longer a projectile by definition. In both cases the bird is flying.
    Now, you could argue that rockets are considered projectiles even though they are self propelled, and I would have to say that is only the case if they follow a projectile motion, and then we could probably argue about many other things.


    Anyway I'm drifting off: beams of light, just like magic beams or rays as one would assume, do not follow a projectile motion(* ).
    As there is no definition in the description of a skill wether and how its affected by gravity or not, or if it follows a projectile motion, so the only way we can assume wether a skill is a projectile or not is through its animation.
    In our cases:

    Crystal Fragment: magically formed crystals, which (most likely) are going to have a specific mass, thus affected by gravity -> projectile. Can be reflected? Yes, working as intended. Now you could argue that one morph follows a projectile motion while the other doesn't, but we'll let the DKs have that one, shall we?

    Force Shock (and its morphs): magical beam of light or energy (the effects are fire, lightning and frost damage, which itself makes little sense in real world physics). The animation can show it bending in all directions, meaning it is not affected by gravity nor does it follow a projectile motion -> not a projectile. Should not be reflected.




    (* ) Now mind you, in fact gravity, or better, gravitational mass, DOES affect light in a certain way, according to Einsteins special relativity. You can read up on detail about that, overly simplified though: gravity bending space, light still moves straight -> looks bent.
    Now, I doubt this fact changes the definition of projectiles in our case though, because if we go that much into detail we could see that the definition of a projectile itself is flawed and not perfectly viable to define skills (especially if a undefined component such as magic comes into play).



    TLDR: Force shock should not be reflected, because of science.
    The laws of physics do not have to apply to magic - this is why the correct definition of wether something is a projectile or not, in the end, is up to the game designers - like everything else.

    TLDR_TLDR: They gon' do whatevs they feel like works for them anways. Meanwhile, here's a picture of a goat. A goat is not a projectile.

    Domestic_goat_kid_in_capeweed.jpg

    Well, most of the time that is.



    you are my new favorite person on these forums :D someone who finally gets I am not calling for a nerf, but a relook at their design philosophy for what is declared projectile.....

    I never once claimed crystal frags should not be reflected, but rather everything else was under powered for sorcs and the ONE skill they had using a destro was being reflected though it is ONLY light and not a projectile. Some DK's need to learn it is ok for skills to be fixed :P
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