1.5 Dungeon Difficulty ?

Rumba1 · November 2014

I'm a little confused about what everyone is calling vet dungeons.
Do you mean the allegedly 4 person delves, one to each province?

These have seemed to me to be scaled with their position in the faction territory as well as the player level.

So for instance, just this afternoon one other player and I ran through Crows Wood just outside Devons Watch. He had come back to pick up boss credits and is VR12, I'm VR6. He was the leader of the group, and frankly the two of us had no trouble at all. I attribute that to the placement of the delve right at the start of the EP storyline.

So I'm left scratching my head over the difficulty being reported, I'm not all that hot a player. So are these like Craiglorn dungeons you're talking about?

Averya_Teira · November 2014

Rumba1 wrote: »

I'm a little confused about what everyone is calling vet dungeons.
Do you mean the allegedly 4 person delves, one to each province?

These have seemed to me to be scaled with their position in the faction territory as well as the player level.

So for instance, just this afternoon one other player and I ran through Crows Wood just outside Devons Watch. He had come back to pick up boss credits and is VR12, I'm VR6. He was the leader of the group, and frankly the two of us had no trouble at all. I attribute that to the placement of the delve right at the start of the EP storyline.

So I'm left scratching my head over the difficulty being reported, I'm not all that hot a player. So are these like Craiglorn dungeons you're talking about?

We're talking about Veteran dungeons... like Vet Spindleclutch, banished cells, etc.

I don't understand what you don't understand lol, what you are talking about are public dungeons, they ARE NOT scaled.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO · November 2014

To all the people babbling about vet dungeons being too hard... go do normals. Normals are still easy there a solution. Now please be off with you and allow players like me to have at least SOME challenging content.

Jbmcely · November 2014

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

To all the people babbling about vet dungeons being too hard... go do normals. Normals are still easy there a solution. Now please be off with you and allow players like me to have at least SOME challenging content.

/Signed

Though the Vet dungeons are still not that hard imo, and can be done with just 3 players who know what they are doing...

Natjur · November 2014

The new vet dungeons are doable BUT some parts require the right class mix to get by.

For example, V14 Spindleclutch, the third boss Praxin Douare, if you don't have Null Magic (sorc) and Solar Prision (templar) its almost impossible.

That fight is about holding down block the whole time and having the right class mix. Why did they change it so you HAVE to have one of each class to finish a dungeon?

I have completed all the vet dungeons since patch 1.5 and some are about right and some are a little over the top in some areas. Still do-able with the right class mix, but I think needs to be tuned to make it 'fair'.

Just one or two bosses in about three different instances need to be 'tuned'. Praxin Douare in V14 Spindleclutch is a good example. The rest of the instance after is easy, but that one boss needs the perfect combo or you will wipe.

Over all, the scaling is a good thing, but I just hope the dev's are reviewing each instance and 'tune' the odd boss that does not scale well.

Vet dungeons should not be tuned to full trials armor set players, at the moment the first two trials are easier then the odd vet dungeon boss

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 · November 2014

Im one of those who always advocate for hard and challenging dungeons.

With that said,I think the scaled vet dungeons are too hard.You spend most of your limited game time just running 1 or 2 dungeons.They are taking to long because they are to hard now.

DisgracefulMind · November 2014

I don't want them to nerf this scaling. For the first time in a LONG time in ESO I'm enjoying PvE again. My guild members and I have been getting our dailies done with multiple toons and are having a blast. I'm normally a major PvP player, but all I've done lately is spend my time in PvE, and it's been so fun. I love the challenge. I'm finally trying out being a DK with DPS specs, and I'm just really enjoying ESO again. Vet Darkshade was immensely entertaining at Vr12, and the only deaths that happened in my group were at the final boss after we got kind of separated from each other while doing the death challenge (and those were both at the very end of the fight). It really just takes coordination and teamwork, try hopping on a TS and don't give up when you wipe a few times. It feels great when you finally beat the dungeons. We had a rough time in Vr12 Spindle at the boss that sends waves of ghosts at you, but after working out a good system, we beat it with ease. I'm excited to do more. It's about time we had some challenging content other than trials and such.

apostate9 · November 2014

It certainly does seem a bit extreme now. I can say it took the wind out of my sails when trying the great new pledges, only to find dungeons I was competent at before crushed my soul at "my" level.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · November 2014

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I don't want them to nerf this scaling. For the first time in a LONG time in ESO I'm enjoying PvE again. My guild members and I have been getting our dailies done with multiple toons and are having a blast. I'm normally a major PvP player, but all I've done lately is spend my time in PvE, and it's been so fun. I love the challenge. I'm finally trying out being a DK with DPS specs, and I'm just really enjoying ESO again. Vet Darkshade was immensely entertaining at Vr12, and the only deaths that happened in my group were at the final boss after we got kind of separated from each other while doing the death challenge (and those were both at the very end of the fight). It really just takes coordination and teamwork, try hopping on a TS and don't give up when you wipe a few times. It feels great when you finally beat the dungeons. We had a rough time in Vr12 Spindle at the boss that sends waves of ghosts at you, but after working out a good system, we beat it with ease. I'm excited to do more. It's about time we had some challenging content other than trials and such.

100% this.

eserras7b16_ESO · November 2014

Stonesthrow wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Look, I don't know anything about you and I definetly don't have anything against you, but dungeons are suposed to be hard and phergaps you powerleveled in Craglorn and didn't get to know your class and/or you didn't really care about reading what the skills do. I find the dungeons easy, once you get tactics of course. Would like them harder.

Have you run with all VR14s in Darkshade Vet today, or yesterday? Or are you speaking in general terms about all of them in some lofty smug way?

The issue some of us are having is not that we don't like a challenge.

For something that will be a "daily", for things that were vet dungeons that could be done on "hard mode" last week if you knew the fights and your class are now much more difficult, especially for people without full trial/arena gear… which is what these dungeons were made for in the first place.

Harder is fine, stupidly hard for no other good reason than a dial turned too far to the right is not.

Think, then speak in a superior tone… comes across better.

You want them harder… right.

Yes I did Darkshade, yes I got my golden key out of it, no I had not DK's with me, no it didn't last more than 1.30h, yes I had a lot of fun. Difficulty is Ok. And NO the content was not made for people without gear, and the Arena gear makes no difference since crafted one is as good as the arena one.

VR12 Dungeons are real *** now if you go into a Dungeon unprepared you beat the floor, if you don't know the tactics you wipe. You need coordination.

On the other hand if you know the tactics it's not much of a problem, you might wipe 4-6 times still in the whole run but it goes okay. And there's friends wich do Dungeons still in less than 20minutes, but then again, you need to be really good for some challenges (others are really easy).

VR12 Dungeon gear is as good as Arena/Crafted gear so it's ment to be VR12-14 content (ENDGAME content).

People with less experience can go Group Dungeons instead of Veteran Dungeons and do fine. Loot is a little bit lower, but that's what you get for stuff that's easier. Oh, and they've got 15 Group Dungeons..? It's not like casual players don't have content.

But if you're a casual player in a game and try to go endgame content you die. HERE in WOW or SWTOR or LOTRO or...

eserras7b16_ESO · November 2014

Natjur wrote: »

We did four of the new undaunted dailys.
The 'normal' dungeons where hard (with pug groups, a few wipes but completed)
The Vet dungeons, did those with guild member with full trial gear and they were HARD.

I like hard fun runs, but vet dungeons where never 'tuned' for Full trial gear players before but do appear that way now. I think they need to be tweaked a little.

I though the gear progression was Normal mobs\quests > Dungeons > Vet mobs\quests > Vet Dungeons > Trials\Arena > Hardmode Trials\Arena

At the moment, I find Hardmode Arena EASIER then some Vet Dungeons.

Problem is:

Before --> Let's go a Dungeon? Okay! (After 15minutes) Nice! We're so pro! We do it really fast now!

After--> Holy ***! (After 5 wipes) This is overtuned! Zenimax i'm so good but I can't do it! Nerf!

Phergaps you didn't really know most of the tactics since you could just burn the content down with DPS. And please, Hardmode Arena EASIER than Veteran Dungeons? There's 2 possible explanations in this statement:

1 - You talk without even entering the Arena.
2 - You did arena SO MANY TIMES you got used to it this means, it is easier for you because you did it plenty of times, know the tactics perfectly, not only you, but your whole group. In that case don't worry, some wipes in Vet Dungeons and you'lll be swiping through it.

eserras7b16_ESO · November 2014

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

You don't get it. Its not about the challenge. I can Solo 3 of the four upper-craglorn group delves. SOLO. I took a group through as lead, I was VR4, the other 3 vr14. We couldn't beat it. I got angry, switched to my VR14 AoE monster build.... still failed. 4 VR14 Trial vets couldn't talk down a VR4 scaled dungeon.

I can't Solo Craglorn Delves but I can get Golden keys. (VR12)
Mate, this means that you're really good playing solo, but that you need to refine your group coordination and/or group build.
Then again, I get Golden Keys phergaps because I practically only do 4man Group Content so I'm used to it

sput4ueb17_ESO · November 2014

These days Dailies have100% their meaning .... You will need a hole day to finish it ...:)
some tweaking might needed

Tankqull · November 2014

hellkrasher wrote: »

Imposible? WOW, WOW, WOW, men... is that hard for you? Even pugs are doing the dungeons... how is imposible for guilds? Wow...

thats sth i have to ask myself as i´m unsure wtf people are doing, just did all grp dungeons with a 3 man group(temp, sorc,nb, no tank) we were trying to find sth for lvlng skills and had no real problem, we wiped to a few bosses as no one of us could remember their mechanics it was chalanging but by far not impossible...

r.jan_emailb16_ESO · November 2014

Figuring out mechanics that were never needed before is actually fun. We tried City of Ash yesterday for the second time, and finally managed to get past the Ash Titan. Feels like a real acomplishment now. I like that.

Armitas · November 2014

These dungeons were not just scaled, some of them were broken. For example Imiril and the last boss of banished cells cannot be blocked. All their attacks go through block, and the last boss is unreflectable and unblockable. I also wonder if boss time tables are broken as well.

I think if they fix the parts they broke it might be a lot better without any rescaling.

Koensol · November 2014

Tbh, I don't think they are impossible. I'm a vr8 templar healer and have healed VR Banished Cells just fine. It was challenging and people died, but we managed as long as all were doing their job and staying out of AoE/breaking free of stuns.

Woolenthreads · November 2014

I would like it if the leveled critters merely obeyed some of the stated "rules" of their "existence" or skill-lines. I don't like the fact that some at-level, non-Boss, Daedra and Undead are immune to most of the effects of Silver Bolts makes some of them close to unbeatable because they're "too powerful" for the perk to get your character a break, from the beating being given to them, in order to recover.

Gilvoth · November 2014

Averya_Teira wrote: »

I am the only one (I know I'm not as guild members have said the same thing) that find the new buffed VR dungeons to be... impossible ? Everyone getting 1 shotted by VR4 mobs at VR8+ is not my definition of fun.

i agree, the bosses are way too hard and way too hard hitting, one shotting all of us in the group repeatedly is getting realy sick of it.
i have 3400 hp so i know for a fact its not a problem on my end cause me and the entire group fall dead repeatedly to almost all the end bosses of every single undaunted quest.
getting realy sick of it.
how is that supose to be considered "fun" ??

Magdalina · November 2014

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

I am the only one (I know I'm not as guild members have said the same thing) that find the new buffed VR dungeons to be... impossible ? Everyone getting 1 shotted by VR4 mobs at VR8+ is not my definition of fun.

i agree, the bosses are way too hard and way too hard hitting, one shotting all of us in the group repeatedly is getting realy sick of it.
i have 3400 hp so i know for a fact its not a problem on my end cause me and the entire group fall dead repeatedly to almost all the end bosses of every single undaunted quest.
getting realy sick of it.
how is that supose to be considered "fun" ??

While I do think they need tweaking...would you specify the bosses? Most final bosses are actually pretty easy, I personally had most trouble with Imril and Praxin(both of whom are NOT final bosses). Perhaps you didn't follow their mechanics?

Jbmcely · November 2014

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

I am the only one (I know I'm not as guild members have said the same thing) that find the new buffed VR dungeons to be... impossible ? Everyone getting 1 shotted by VR4 mobs at VR8+ is not my definition of fun.

i agree, the bosses are way too hard and way too hard hitting, one shotting all of us in the group repeatedly is getting realy sick of it.
i have 3400 hp so i know for a fact its not a problem on my end cause me and the entire group fall dead repeatedly to almost all the end bosses of every single undaunted quest.
getting realy sick of it.
how is that supose to be considered "fun" ??

Please let me know which boss you are talking about one shotting you and your entire group? We have yet to encounter such a boss that can one shot someone with 3400 hp. Unless it is a mechanic that is suppose to be interrupted, blocked or dodged and your group is failing to do so...

Kesstryl · November 2014

Maybe ZOS should do what other games do and have a normal mode and a challenging mode. I can understand hardcore players wanting a challenge. But the rest of us don't want to be throwing our monitors out the window because what's challenging for you is impossible for us. Seriously, I predict a lot of rage quitting because this game will no longer be fun but impossible for those who play casually. Two modes for two play styles, not one scaling difficult mode.

Minnesinger · November 2014

Kesstryl wrote: »

Maybe ZOS should do what other games do and have a normal mode and a challenging mode.

Hmm if normal and vet modes aren´t answer to your request I don´t know what you mean.

All normal mode dungeons have been pretty easy. I can understand why veteran mode is required for the golden key. To get better loot you need to be challenged.

I have done most of the pledges. And believe me I am random player with limited time to play. The Undaunted quests have been for the best of such players who haven´t played through all content hundred times.

mazrimtaimxpreub18_ESO · November 2014

Vet Dungeons need to stay hard. In my honest opinion they could be a little harder. My friends and I are now running the dungeons again for the first time in a long time as they finally offer a little challenge. We would hate to see that challenge disappear.

The whole reason to have "Normal" and "Veteran" options in my opinion is to offer challenge to those who want it and an easier alternative for people who don't. Nerfing the Veteran dungeons kind of defeats the point of having them.

Please don't decrease the difficulty of the Veteran Content.

Gilvoth · November 2014

Jbmcely wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

I am the only one (I know I'm not as guild members have said the same thing) that find the new buffed VR dungeons to be... impossible ? Everyone getting 1 shotted by VR4 mobs at VR8+ is not my definition of fun.

i agree, the bosses are way too hard and way too hard hitting, one shotting all of us in the group repeatedly is getting realy sick of it.
i have 3400 hp so i know for a fact its not a problem on my end cause me and the entire group fall dead repeatedly to almost all the end bosses of every single undaunted quest.
getting realy sick of it.
how is that supose to be considered "fun" ??

Please let me know which boss you are talking about one shotting you and your entire group? We have yet to encounter such a boss that can one shot someone with 3400 hp. Unless it is a mechanic that is suppose to be interrupted, blocked or dodged and your group is failing to do so...

the bosses in the veteren dungeons of the dailly undaunted pledges

blue.indigo5b14_ESO · November 2014

Averya_Teira wrote: »

I am the only one (I know I'm not as guild members have said the same thing) that find the new buffed VR dungeons to be... impossible ? Everyone getting 1 shotted by VR4 mobs at VR8+ is not my definition of fun.

Simple point: we did VR Wayrest Sewers one day this week--it was decently challenging with a few deaths but we succeeded; then the Undaunted VR Wayrest the next, and couldn't get past the third boss. Ditto on Banished Cells and today, Spindleclutch--both of which we have successfully finished numerous times with pretty much the same group--the VR dungeons have always been a challenge, but doable until now. (We're a close-knit guild, so we run with the same team repeatedly.)

The boss's tags say they are VR2 but they actually seem to be scaling to the highest level in our group, which was VR 13 today (group makeup: VR2, VR5, VR6, VR13). Not fun at all, and I don't think it's quite what the devs had in mind. I'm hoping they'll address this issue sometime soon.

Jbmcely · November 2014

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Jbmcely wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

I am the only one (I know I'm not as guild members have said the same thing) that find the new buffed VR dungeons to be... impossible ? Everyone getting 1 shotted by VR4 mobs at VR8+ is not my definition of fun.

i agree, the bosses are way too hard and way too hard hitting, one shotting all of us in the group repeatedly is getting realy sick of it.
i have 3400 hp so i know for a fact its not a problem on my end cause me and the entire group fall dead repeatedly to almost all the end bosses of every single undaunted quest.
getting realy sick of it.
how is that supose to be considered "fun" ??

Please let me know which boss you are talking about one shotting you and your entire group? We have yet to encounter such a boss that can one shot someone with 3400 hp. Unless it is a mechanic that is suppose to be interrupted, blocked or dodged and your group is failing to do so...

the bosses in the veteren dungeons of the dailly undaunted pledges

Which boss? I have done them all and have yet to encounter this...

Koensol · November 2014

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Jbmcely wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

I am the only one (I know I'm not as guild members have said the same thing) that find the new buffed VR dungeons to be... impossible ? Everyone getting 1 shotted by VR4 mobs at VR8+ is not my definition of fun.

i agree, the bosses are way too hard and way too hard hitting, one shotting all of us in the group repeatedly is getting realy sick of it.
i have 3400 hp so i know for a fact its not a problem on my end cause me and the entire group fall dead repeatedly to almost all the end bosses of every single undaunted quest.
getting realy sick of it.
how is that supose to be considered "fun" ??

Please let me know which boss you are talking about one shotting you and your entire group? We have yet to encounter such a boss that can one shot someone with 3400 hp. Unless it is a mechanic that is suppose to be interrupted, blocked or dodged and your group is failing to do so...

the bosses in the veteren dungeons of the dailly undaunted pledges

Im sorry dude but if you're constantly getting one shotted by VR bosses, then you are not paying attention to their mechanics, AoE or are not blocking amy power attacks. No boss instantly hits you for an unblockable/undodgable amount of 3.4k+.

mazrimtaimxpreub18_ESO · November 2014

Dungeons definitely not too hard. Here is a vid of Vet Banished Cells post 1.5 being cleared with a 3 man team of VR14s and it takes them about 26 minutes. It is simply a matter of mechanics and teamwork.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2dPQ2bJNvk

JLB · November 2014

All I know is I didn't have so much fun since the revamped Dungeons difficulty and daily Pledges. Done them all since day 1 with pug groups by the way, except maybe a couple, so it's totally doable.
Finding out the right mechanics (by all 4 group members) is the key to success, simple as that.
Imo ZOS has done it right with 1.5 Dungeons: difficutly, loot and Undaunted passives.