1.5 Dungeon Difficulty ?

Averya_Teira

I am the only one (I know I'm not as guild members have said the same thing) that find the new buffed VR dungeons to be... impossible ? Everyone getting 1 shotted by VR4 mobs at VR8+ is not my definition of fun.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Yeah, I've noticed that too, it's not fun at all anymore. two vr14 at 2.5-2.9k hp getting 1-2 shot by a vr4 boss isn't reasonable at all

DigitalHype

Yes. I'm also noticing that the VR elite/boss mobs, at the end of normal quest lines, are stronger now. Increased damage, and more resistance.

Gyudan

I hope this is true, can't wait to try!

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Gyudan wrote: »

I hope this is true, can't wait to try!

Trust me, you don't.

Valymer

Even the mini-bosses are insane now at VR12 scaling. I haven't done enough yet to decide whether it is too much buffing or not. I definitely like the lower dungeons having more challenge, but time will tell if the increase in difficulty is where it needs to be or not.

Syntse

I'm sure there will be people telling that they still can faceroll them any day and that they are still too easy.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

The scaling definitely needs nerfing, I tried the veteran darkshade caverns out with my group that I've done all the speed challenges and most death challenges with. We got to the second boss and it took us all 4 to barely be able to heal through his ground pounding and kill him, and the 4th boss is just stupid, the adds are as tough as mini bosses now, not just there but the whole dungeon is riddled with them.....

Dagoth_Rac

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

The scaling definitely needs nerfing, I tried the veteran darkshade caverns out with my group that I've done all the speed challenges and most death challenges with. We got to the second boss and it took us all 4 to barely be able to heal through his ground pounding and kill him, and the 4th boss is just stupid, the adds are as tough as mini bosses now, not just there but the whole dungeon is riddled with them.....

Out of curiosity, do you have a VR10 guildie or friend who could lead the group? Vet Darkshade was a VR10 dungeon by default, I think. Does it play just like it used to if set to VR10? Or is it way more difficult even at the same level it used to be?

Edit: What I am trying to get at is if the scaling from VR10 to VR12 is too steep, or if the scaling is fine but the base stats of the dungeon were made much more difficult.

Valymer

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

The scaling definitely needs nerfing, I tried the veteran darkshade caverns out with my group that I've done all the speed challenges and most death challenges with. We got to the second boss and it took us all 4 to barely be able to heal through his ground pounding and kill him, and the 4th boss is just stupid, the adds are as tough as mini bosses now, not just there but the whole dungeon is riddled with them.....

Haha yeah that netch is beast, we eventually gave up on it but got it to 40% a few times. I'm not even sure if it is working properly, because it was continuously spawning adds on us while it was in its vulnerable ground phase, and the large adds didn't despawn at all when he went down so there were like 3-5 of them up at all times.

I talked to people who have beaten it, so it isn't impossible. But damn...felt like I was in DSA there for a while

itsBishop

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

We got to the second boss and it took us all 4 to barely be able to heal through his ground pounding and kill him

Really? I just healed it solo no problem with a group that wasn't even pumping out that much dps (trying stamina builds, etc). Maybe it's time to revisit gear, enchants, etc?

s7732425ub17_ESO

The scaling is extremely, extremely strong. With a group of four VR14s, each boss in Darkshade took 5+ minutes of whacking to kill. We got to the last boss and could not make a dent in its health before we all died. Mob HP and damage was scaled extremely high. I've heard of many, many groups who could not even kill the very first boss of the dungeon.

It seems like the only way people are completing these dungeons is having a VR1 group leader (for VR1 scaling), and then VR14, VR14, and VR14. This really is not the intended mechanic and needs to be looked at.

s7732425ub17_ESO

Valymer wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

The scaling definitely needs nerfing, I tried the veteran darkshade caverns out with my group that I've done all the speed challenges and most death challenges with. We got to the second boss and it took us all 4 to barely be able to heal through his ground pounding and kill him, and the 4th boss is just stupid, the adds are as tough as mini bosses now, not just there but the whole dungeon is riddled with them.....

Haha yeah that netch is beast, we eventually gave up on it but got it to 40% a few times. I'm not even sure if it is working properly, because it was continuously spawning adds on us while it was in its vulnerable ground phase, and the large adds didn't despawn at all when he went down so there were like 3-5 of them up at all times.

I talked to people who have beaten it, so it isn't impossible. But damn...felt like I was in DSA there for a while

Adds don't despawn when the boss becomes vulnerable. You must kill them.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

The scaling definitely needs nerfing, I tried the veteran darkshade caverns out with my group that I've done all the speed challenges and most death challenges with. We got to the second boss and it took us all 4 to barely be able to heal through his ground pounding and kill him, and the 4th boss is just stupid, the adds are as tough as mini bosses now, not just there but the whole dungeon is riddled with them.....

Out of curiosity, do you have a VR10 guildie or friend who could lead the group? Vet Darkshade was a VR10 dungeon by default, I think. Does it play just like it used to if set to VR10? Or is it way more difficult even at the same level it used to be?

Edit: What I am trying to get at is if the scaling from VR10 to VR12 is too steep, or if the scaling is fine but the base stats of the dungeon were made much more difficult.

From what I've experienced, the vr4 version is harder than the prepatch dungeon.

itsBishop wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

We got to the second boss and it took us all 4 to barely be able to heal through his ground pounding and kill him

Really? I just healed it solo no problem with a group that wasn't even pumping out that much dps (trying stamina builds, etc). Maybe it's time to revisit gear, enchants, etc?

Well, we've done all the speed runs and all that with this gear we got atm, and we did it with no problem. Now we just hit a brick wall.

Valymer

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Adds don't despawn when the boss becomes vulnerable. You must kill them.

Ah ok, I wasn't sure. All the times I ran it at normal vet level we just plowed through that boss so I guess I never really paid much attention.

Is he also supposed to continue to summon adds while he is on the ground? Definitely don't remember that happening.

tengri

/z "Setting up any dungeon to VR1 mode, 5k per, /w".

Looks like my last VR1 will be making big bucks now by starting and setting up dungeon runs for all those VR14 suckers... VR14 my ***, all wussies that need to l2p, ha! I like it!

Oh, wait. Crap.
What about my own V14 chars now?????

itsBishop

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Well, we've done all the speed runs and all that with this gear we got atm, and we did it with no problem. Now we just hit a brick wall.

You didn't happen to forget to distribute your recently reset attribute points, did you? This could explain the additional difficulty, given that you might have been walking into combat with lowered stats all around.

zaria

Ok so group dungeons are now scaled to leader if leader is above dungeon level, if lower the default level is used.

Think we can forget the banished cell death challenge we did not managed yesterday

Solo quests are scaled to you.
How does public instanced work? No changes?

WraithAzraiel

Valymer wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

The scaling definitely needs nerfing, I tried the veteran darkshade caverns out with my group that I've done all the speed challenges and most death challenges with. We got to the second boss and it took us all 4 to barely be able to heal through his ground pounding and kill him, and the 4th boss is just stupid, the adds are as tough as mini bosses now, not just there but the whole dungeon is riddled with them.....

Haha yeah that netch is beast, we eventually gave up on it but got it to 40% a few times. I'm not even sure if it is working properly, because it was continuously spawning adds on us while it was in its vulnerable ground phase, and the large adds didn't despawn at all when he went down so there were like 3-5 of them up at all times.

I talked to people who have beaten it, so it isn't impossible. But damn...felt like I was in DSA there for a while

Same, we had no idea what the hell we were doing wrong and all the mobs in the dungeon were V5 cuz we gave our lowest DPS group lead. With a V10 Tank, V14 heals and myself as V14 DPS, we could NOT get past the jellyfish.

This needs some tweaking.

Hell we even did a normal mode V12 Spindleclutch with a full group of V14s and had not at least 1 other person pulled out a resto staff we would've been dying to trash mobs.

WTF ZOS?

Dagoth_Rac

Has anyone been to Craglorn? Are places like Spellscar, Rahzi's School of Warriors, etc., unaffected? Can my friends and I keep ourselves busy with group dailies in Craglorn while ZOS, hopefully, tweak the dungeons? Or was this some kind of across the board buff to enemies? I don't think Craglorn was supposed to scale, but it is possible they buffed all enemy strength and the scaling is sitting on top of that "new normal".

Syntse

Think they are going to row back and forth with this. People saying content is too hard, they tune it down, people say they faceroll everything and they tune it up, rinse and repeat.

I would guess those people that seek real challenge are now bit happier doing the vet dungeons.

Valymer

Syntse wrote: »

Think they are going to row back and forth with this. People saying content is too hard, they tune it down, people say they faceroll everything and they tune it up, rinse and repeat.

I would guess those people that seek real challenge are now bit happier doing the vet dungeons.

Well see, there is this thing called "balance." And it is true that it is something that has to be searched for--a happy medium is not easily found. But it can't be simplified down to being merely either "easy" or "hard", they have to tune things to where a well-geared, at-level (or even above-level) group has a reasonable chance to succeed. I'm not talking about PUGs here, I mean a solid group that knows the strengths and weaknesses of each member well and is using voice chat.

Everyone likes a challenge...up to a point. There is certainly a threshold where the rewards stop outweighing the risks.

Palidon

Yes they are harder. But to me that is not the problem. The problem is that ZOS has continually put out repeatable quests for veteran content. How many times does a player want to do the same Dungeon whether to get the slayer achievement or now the new daily Undaunted pledges which put you right back into the same dungeons again fighting the same mobs and bosses. How many times does a player want to do the same trials only to receive the same gear over and over again or Dragonstar Arena? Even in Craglorn you have dailies which are in a nutshell doing the same quests over and over again. Yes they added something new in update 5. City of Ash. A new trial. But in the long run how many times are players going to do that one over and over.

Where are the new adventure zones with NEW SOLO QUESTS AND CONTENT for veterans to tackle? Why does all veteran PvE stuff have to be group to accomplish anything? This game to me has become very repetitious‎ and is becoming quite boring. If you really think about it there is nothing new just the same ole grind over and over again.

Anyways I am looking at other MMO's. Especially the free ones. I can not see playing for repetitious content and ESO is full of it after level 50.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

Well true this makes running pledges very difficult. I had trouble with a full VR14 doing one of them

Aeratus

Love the new difficulty. Darkshade was fun but definitely not too difficult.

This actually makes the dungeons real dungeons. Before, the dungeons were just faceroll playgrounds. Previously, you could faceroll through Darkshade in under 10 mins which didn't seem right.

timidobserver

I am begging that the easy mode crew stop lobbying to nerf any and everything that is even slightly challenging.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

timidobserver wrote: »

I am begging that the easy mode crew stop lobbying to nerf any and everything that is even slightly challenging.

I am begging that the masochist and elitist crew stop lobbying to make any and everything that is even slightly fun a chore for normal people.

timidobserver

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I am begging that the easy mode crew stop lobbying to nerf any and everything that is even slightly challenging.

I am begging that the masochist and elitist crew stop lobbying to make any and everything that is even slightly fun a chore.

I see. So mindlessly running through low level mobs on a higher level vet toon without ever losing any health or getting useful loot qualifies as fun?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

timidobserver wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I am begging that the easy mode crew stop lobbying to nerf any and everything that is even slightly challenging.

I am begging that the masochist and elitist crew stop lobbying to make any and everything that is even slightly fun a chore.

I see. So mindlessly running through low level mobs on a higher level vet toon without ever losing any health or getting useful loot qualifies as fun?

I enjoy being able to help my guildies which are not among the best people in eso, which this update was catering to, so now I got to tell them that I can't help them out because we're only going to fail now. Some have disabilities that prevents them from being able to do everything that min-maxers takes for granted, and helping them out was quite enjoyable to me as I made someone happy and I could help them get a little bit better at the same time. And the loot is still crap in dungeons, so I don't really see what you think is fun there either.

Joy_Division

The dungeons are harder beyond the scaling. They are not impossible...stop using the bad habits you developed while face-rolling the vet dungeons before the 1.5 patch.

timidobserver

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I am begging that the easy mode crew stop lobbying to nerf any and everything that is even slightly challenging.

I am begging that the masochist and elitist crew stop lobbying to make any and everything that is even slightly fun a chore.

I see. So mindlessly running through low level mobs on a higher level vet toon without ever losing any health or getting useful loot qualifies as fun?

I enjoy being able to help my guildies which are not among the best people in eso, which this update was catering to, so now I got to tell them that I can't help them out because we're only going to fail now. Some have disabilities that prevents them from being able to do everything that min-maxers takes for granted, and helping them out was quite enjoyable to me as I made someone happy and I could help them get a little bit better at the same time. And the loot is still crap in dungeons, so I don't really see what you think is fun there either.

How would you know the loot is still crap if you can't finish the dungeons. The reality is that useful set items drop in dungeons now.

I sympathize with those that have disabilities, but all game content should not be developed with disabled users as the target audience. Most of the game content is quite easy and anyone should be able to do it. Dungeons should have some minimum of challenge.