Jacques Berge wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

*snip because I agree on most of this part*

Don't even get me started on "detection pots"... Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but seriously, F**K you if you think it's balanced to have one class have its signature move countered by wormwood and f**king cornflower. Until I get poisons that reduce healing and can't be purged, fire resist pots, and reflect magic pots I say F**K your detect pots.

Just to play devils advocate here and put in a different perspective. When we compare "signature" aspects of each class you have NB stealth, DK fire damage, Templars heal, and Sorcs CC (although some may argue bolt escape but the sorc has by far more CC). NB is countered by a potion that has a 30 second cool down, which if you are fighting some one that means that if they used it they now can't use one of their more combat efficient potions for a bit (arguably giving you an advantage). DK fire damage is constantly reduced by having a glyph on a jewelry slot if you choose to spec that way. Templars are probably the one with the least draw backs due to affects as the disease debuff only has a 10% chance of procing every few seconds... so that one I will give you (unless someone else can counter that). Sorcs hard CC's can be countered by an unmovable potion, or just blocking for the most case. So every class had some aspect put into the game that a player can spec to counter one of their major advantages.

Not to get too into this but your argument doesn't really work. Everyone can get Magelight which is the primary counter to stealth and cloak. From what I understand though, detection pots have an increased radius of detection. Then you factor in who sees who first and or when really a NB is trying to cloak. Typically when about ready to die and are WTF OH CRAP spamming cloak.

I don't think it's fair at all but ZOS IMHO is throwing the community a bone because they'd be QQ all the way home without it. Cloak all in all is just fine with a couple reliability tweaks needed.

I was mainly trying to point out that all classes had counters in the form of non skill abilities (as their are other skills to counter classes ability if players wanted to spec them), and if one is unfair all of them should be. To spec to counter a build you are taking on disadvantages be it putting potions on cool down or taking up a glyph spot (would nb complain less if there was a glyph that increased detection range by X?)

Stealth/invisability i would say is one of the trickiest abilitiest to balance correctly as it can easily become overpowered, or underwelming. I like how eso did it so far, well onc ethey fix the bugs and make it so tab locking goes away once someone goes invis (if that is still happening).

Potion use has little to no draw back... considering you can have a detect/spell power/mana pot... invisibility is the class's only in-class mitigation skill and only lasts 3 secs tops... glyphs are different than potions... glyphs have large opportunity costs compared to potions... I would be fine with an increased detection area, as long as it didnt allow you to see through cloak. Magelight, and piercing mark are the only things that should see through cloak... mundane potions should not supersede magical invisibility.

I am going to have to disagree with this. Potions use does have a draw back in it limits what potions you have to use, and that it can not be in constant effect. Basically, a potion used to counter an ability is also unreliable. A lot of players use tri potions as the added health recovery is greatly beneficial, if they are forced to use a detection potion they could be out health recovery (and stamina) from potions for up to 30 seconds. If I remember some of your previous posts you are a hybred NB, so would these detection potions really be the best choice for you to be using all the time for your build?

Invisibility is also not your only in-class mitigation, you actually have 4 (2 of which are gimmiki and not always that effective tho {blur and summon shade}, and the third is an ultimate), I do think some of those abilities could use tweaking / buffing (blur) and your ultimate mitigation skill is arguably one of the better ones out there. But those aren't really part of a debate about shadow cloak so sorry about that tangent.

Glyphs and potions are both aspects that should be considered when thinking of checks and balances, potions have flexibility (due to not taking up an item slot) but glyphs have consistency. The reason I originally even brought up the glyphs was due to your comment about wanting a pot tto counter other classes, for against DK's I honestly think the glyph will be far more detrimental to their build due to the consistency factor. I am also not a fan of counter skills being placed within the class that primarily use it. I have a belief why Zeni did it ( as NB's are suppose to be the stealth master so are then the best ones to counter stealth) but this leads to limiting invisibility detection to a max of 12 meters if the only counter of the game was mage light. Which is not far at all, and (after all the bugs are fixed and hopefully taking away tab targeting remaining on the NB) could really make stealth the best mitigiation skill in the game coupled with giving it the ability to reposition the attacker.