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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
New Group and Solo Instance Scaling NEEDS to be OPTIONAL!
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Elloa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've not read every answer of this thread. But I'd like to specify something that maybe you have missed.
Solo instances are scaling to the person level and after each dead, the game is made easier. Considering that the solo quest have already been nerfed to the point that its SUPER easy normally, do not worry, the unskilled-impatient players will have no problems! However, the players that were hoping for some challenges can forget about facing any sort of difficulties.
Same for GROUP instances, as I'm explaining in THIS THREAD, the Undaunted Pledge as they are today on the PTS have a too low difficulty, even unskilled, unprepared players would have no troubles at all!
The Elder Scrolls Online should not turn and follow the path that World of Warcraft have taken soøe years ago, by nerfing everything and transforming a fun leveling experience into a unchallenging grind.
I've not voted because I do not know what would be the best solution. I'm very happy that the Dungeons are scaling to the player level, but I'm very unhappy that the difficulty is so low and that there is no way to face a normal challenge while leveling!
A solution could be to keep the Dungeon unscalled as they are, and to drastically increase the difficulty of the Scaled Dungeons. So players that are discovering the game would be safe, and players that know the game and enjoy some difficulty have the possibility to enjoy themselves with the dailies.
Another possibility would be to allow the group leader to choose the level of difficulty of the Dungeon (like Diablo3), or to have a system of leveling difficulty that can be selected by the players (like the Fractals in GW2) OR to allow the group leader to select manualy the lvl of the instance. So good player could for example, scale up the Dungeon 10 lvl higher than themselves, while bad players would be allowed to scale down the level to 2 or 3 level below them. (not more otherwise its cheating ^^)
Edited by Elloa on October 31, 2014 4:02PM1 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭I do not like the new level scaling at all, and feel that instances should not even have an option to scale them to your level.
Figure what out? They'll try again. They'll lose. They'll go away for a while to level up some. They'll try again. They'll lose. They'll quit.
They *may* complain in chat. People will probably laugh and call 'em newb.
Odds of them actually looking through the options menu for a solution to something like this are extremely remote. It's unlikely even adding a tip in death recap/loadscreen will help much.
Achievements Suck1 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭I do not like the new level scaling at all, and feel that instances should not even have an option to scale them to your level.While I haven't played around with it much, I recall that you just have to choose the "Dungeon Mode" you want in the group window. Why couldn't the "scaled or not" option just be in there with the "Vet or regular" option?
Because solo instances obviously don't use the group UI, and it's solo instances wherein lie all the issues. Everybody is pretty much fine with group instances scaling.
Achievements Suck0 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.
There's no reason that the group setting couldn't also apply to the solo instances -- other than it's a somewhat non-intuitive place to put it...Because solo instances obviously don't use the group UI, and it's solo instances wherein lie all the issues. Everybody is pretty much fine with group instances scaling.
And no, everyone is NOT "pretty much fine" with the forced group scaling. There were several people that disliked the forced scaling in the group instances as well, but more because they like having the ability to go back and solo them later.
I maintain my argument that there is absolutely no valid reason to not make the scaling optional.Edited by Divinius on October 31, 2014 5:33PM2 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭I do not like the new level scaling at all, and feel that instances should not even have an option to scale them to your level.I've not read every answer of this thread. But I'd like to specify something that maybe you have missed.
Solo instances are scaling to the person level and after each dead, the game is made easier.
Problem is we aren't sure that's true. That was taken from a fairly old comment, and there is NO indication anybody can find of that in the PTS patch notes, and nobody has confirmed it's working that way on PTS. (That said, personally I'd still prefer it level locking to either the level I get it at or the level I first try it at. If I just barely fail, I can retry without it actually getting easier. If I get annihilated, I can go away for a while and come back 5 levels later instead of having to fail 10 times until it's finally doable.
(and, P.S. IIRC that's how fallout 3 did it's scaling? The level of an area was "set" when you first entered it based on your level at the time)And no, everyone is NOT "pretty much fine" with the forced group scaling. There were several people that disliked the forced scaling in the group instances as well, but more because they like having the ability to go back and solo them later.
Hmm, I thought they had said they'd be fine with the workaround of making some lowbie leader long enough to lock in the level.
Edited by GnatB on October 31, 2014 8:28PMAchievements Suck0 -
Whisper292✭✭✭TL;DR
Option 4: I don't like scaling but feel it should be optional for those who do like it. I don't know how easy it would be to make such a feature optional, though.---
Love all, trust few, do wrong to no one. - William Shakespeare0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.I've not read every answer of this thread. But I'd like to specify something that maybe you have missed.
Solo instances are scaling to the person level and after each dead, the game is made easier.
Problem is we aren't sure that's true. That was taken from a fairly old comment, and there is NO indication anybody can find of that in the PTS patch notes, and nobody has confirmed it's working that way on PTS. (That said, personally I'd still prefer it level locking to either the level I get it at or the level I first try it at. If I just barely fail, I can retry without it actually getting easier. If I get annihilated, I can go away for a while and come back 5 levels later instead of having to fail 10 times until it's finally doable.
Just wanted to note that this is present in the Patch Notes for 1.5.2:- Solo scaling recognizes when you are having difficulty with a particular instance, and will compensate accordingly.
Edited by Enodoc on November 4, 2014 2:41PMUESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
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Heruthema✭✭✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.My problem with this is that they did not give me a choice. I do not wait to do the quests because they are too hard. I wait because I am tired of doing the same quests over and over with each of my characters. So I wait and then I can breeze through. I do not need the challenge. There are enough challenges. Scale the dungeons, just not the main quest lines. Should I decide that I do need a challenge then let me choose that option. Or better yet give me a choice to not have to do the main quests when I have done them multiple times already, just like they allow you to skip the prison.3 -
ArcaneBlue✭✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.sent /feedback. this scaling needs some rework I think...
#teamEmeric0 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭I do not like the new level scaling at all, and feel that instances should not even have an option to scale them to your level.I've not read every answer of this thread. But I'd like to specify something that maybe you have missed.
Solo instances are scaling to the person level and after each dead, the game is made easier.
Problem is we aren't sure that's true. That was taken from a fairly old comment, and there is NO indication anybody can find of that in the PTS patch notes, and nobody has confirmed it's working that way on PTS. (That said, personally I'd still prefer it level locking to either the level I get it at or the level I first try it at. If I just barely fail, I can retry without it actually getting easier. If I get annihilated, I can go away for a while and come back 5 levels later instead of having to fail 10 times until it's finally doable.
Just wanted to note that this is present in the Patch Notes for 1.5.2:- Solo scaling recognizes when you are having difficulty with a particular instance, and will compensate accordingly.
Yep, saw that myself. Still probably annoying that you have to keep trying even though you know you wan't stand a chance for a while, and can't simply go away and come back later, but it'll prevent a "brick wall" scenario, as eventually you'll get through.
Achievements Suck0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.Only one thing that does not work with this new set up. To get the dungeon to lower it's difficulty, you have to die. Probably several times. Last time I checked, your armor protection degrades each time you die. So, in essence, your ability to beat the dungeon goes down as you die. So, how is anyone ever going to get to the point that they can beat the Boss if their armor is broken? Do they spawn Smurfs wielding foam bats the 6th time you die?Edited by Nestor on November 4, 2014 10:52PMEnjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"2 -
Emeliana✭✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.Only one thing that does not work with this new set up. To get the dungeon to lower it's difficulty, you have to die. Probably several times. Last time I checked, your armor protection degrades each time you die. So, in essence, your ability to beat the dungeon goes down as you die. So, how is anyone ever going to get to the point that they can beat the Boss if their armor is broken? Do they spawn Smurfs wielding foam bats the 6th time you die?
Good question...
Perhaps add a npc merchant in those instances or maybe even consider repair-kits in containers and loot.
Now, I'm level 50 in all crafting-diciplines divided on two chars. Still I can't repair my own armors. BUT, if I go to a Brewer or a Chef, they can fix it. Makes sense?
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Duccea✭✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.While I do like the concept of scaling instances, I think in this case it went over the top; the increase in difficulty is substantial, up to the point where doing the veteran dungeons for the undaunted pledges becomes pretty much impossibile in a pug, especially if you want to do the extra challenge and thus get a golden key.
I did BC with 2 friends yesterday and we found the difficulty to be considerably upped, up to the point where we had to replace our 2nd, picked up dps for another dps of whom we knew to be performing better. This is the first time in playing this game that we were ever forced to kick a player from the party for "performance" reasons and we absolutely hated having to do that.
We did beat BC with the new dps eventually, but we were struggling and taking a long time. We were happy when we finally did it and the challenge was also fun, but quite frankly, this isn't what I want to do every evening to complete my pledge. Sometimes I just want a relaxed run that doesn't take too long and this seems impossible right now.
I have no personal experience with the solo instance scaling so far, but I can see how people are now prevented from progressing their storylines because they cannot overlevel a boss that proved to be too much for their build.
Challenging content is a good thing, and it provides much more satisfaction upon succes than just breezing through everything, and since player skill varies broadly, I can also see the points of those who, thanks to the new scaling, now face adequate challenges instead of just breezing through everything.
Because of that, I think making the scaling an optional selection is a great idea; player who seek a challenge and, in case of group dungeons, have a well-working group can do the scaled versions while those who just want to relax and enjoy the game, run in pugs or have only 20 minutes or so for a fast, easy dungeon run can do it the way it used to be before 1.5.
This way, content will be doable and fun for a broader range of players, fewer players get frustrated and thus quit, and everyone is (hopefully) happy with having a choice.0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the new level scaling, and feel that it should NOT be optional, so that everyone is required to complete these instances without over-leveling them.It should be mandatory because the game is too easy as it is. And because it forces people to actually L2P a bit better & not move around spaming whirlwind with their stamina NBs thinking they're doing DPS.1 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.
Thank you for providing a shining example of the exact type of player that game designers should never listen to.It should be mandatory because the game is too easy as it is. And because it forces people to actually L2P a bit better & not move around spaming whirlwind with their stamina NBs thinking they're doing DPS.
Many players simply lack sufficient skill, and will never be able to "L2P" or simply can't do any better due to a physical limitation. What would your suggestion be to those people, when they simply can't finish one of the main quest missions? Let me guess, "You stink at this game, just quit!"
Well, that may very well be exactly what will happen. And every one of those people that quit is one less sub fee that ZOS gets, to pay the bills with. You know what will happen to your precious game when they lose too many subs?8 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭Only one thing that does not work with this new set up. To get the dungeon to lower it's difficulty, you have to die. Probably several times. Last time I checked, your armor protection degrades each time you die. So, in essence, your ability to beat the dungeon goes down as you die. So, how is anyone ever going to get to the point that they can beat the Boss if their armor is broken? Do they spawn Smurfs wielding foam bats the 6th time you die?
Good question...
Perhaps add a npc merchant in those instances or maybe even consider repair-kits in containers and loot.
Now, I'm level 50 in all crafting-diciplines divided on two chars. Still I can't repair my own armors. BUT, if I go to a Brewer or a Chef, they can fix it. Makes sense?
Remove your gear. Run to first monster in the instance 15 times and die, always ress to wayshrine (don't spend soulgems) and hopefully instance has scaled down enough. Put gear on, PROFIT.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]2 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
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Thank you for providing a shining example of the exact type of player that game designers should never listen to.It should be mandatory because the game is too easy as it is. And because it forces people to actually L2P a bit better & not move around spaming whirlwind with their stamina NBs thinking they're doing DPS.
Please don't feed trolls. Thanks in advance.0 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.
Whether magnusnet was trolling or not is irrelevant. Sadly, that attitude actually is the most common reason that 28% of the people that particiapted in this poll voted that the scaling should remain forced. He may have been trolling the thread with that post, but that doesn't change the ugly fact that many people actually feel that way.Please don't feed trolls. Thanks in advance.
Edited by Divinius on November 5, 2014 1:30PM1 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.Only one thing that does not work with this new set up. To get the dungeon to lower it's difficulty, you have to die. Probably several times. Last time I checked, your armor protection degrades each time you die. So, in essence, your ability to beat the dungeon goes down as you die. So, how is anyone ever going to get to the point that they can beat the Boss if their armor is broken? Do they spawn Smurfs wielding foam bats the 6th time you die?
Not to get too far off topic, but each one in our 4 man dungeon group carries with them a couple of armor repair kits, plenty of food, potions, soul gems, etc. You need to be prepared if you are Undaunted
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VarilRau✭✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.Scaling is borked. Badly. Problem aint that much that they scale. Seems that the mobs got buffed by pretty much same algorithm. This makes different bosses different. Say all bosses in yesterdays daily seem to be buffed with a lot more hp/they hit a bit harder. This effects bosses differently. The two minibosses that you can skip are ok fights now. Fire daedroth is just boring as it is easy and takes just longer to kill. The bubble boss is just nuts (or then you bug her stuck into some wall or something and its easy..) as it takes longer to kill her -> whole room full of balls -> you either "corner cheat" or pretty much die.
Scale like this makes me feel we should have a lot more dps. Maybe it will be good once we get the next part of the veteran scrapping.
Now it feels bad, bosses are so different depending of the original mechanics. Now they are ok/boring/ridiculous and those have nothing to do with how hard the bosses used to be.Varil Rau, Mag sorcerer
Viiltoveikko, Stam sorcerer
Meadshield, nord dragonknight
DC EU3 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.
Whether magnusnet was trolling or not is irrelevant. Sadly, that attitude actually is the most common reason that 28% of the people that particiapted in this poll voted that the scaling should remain forced. He may have been trolling the thread with that post, but that doesn't change the ugly fact that many people actually feel that way.Please don't feed trolls. Thanks in advance.
Yeah, I agree with what you said in the other thread, if it was optional then those who want could have it harder, while those of us who were happy with the previous system could opt out.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule1 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are they going to update the loading Screen that says, "If your having difficultly beating mob gain a few level then come back" to "If your having difficulty beating a mob, unsub it will not get any easier!"3 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.Cherryblossom wrote: »Are they going to update the loading Screen that says, "If your having difficultly beating mob gain a few level then come back" to "If your having difficulty beating a mob, unsub it will not get any easier!"
Probably not, in fact I suspect they haven't changed that message at all :Rolleyes:People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like the new level scaling, and feel that it should NOT be optional, so that everyone is required to complete these instances without over-leveling them.I'd call this a classic case of l2p.1 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.I guess this will be a good test to see if ZOS actually listens to the users considering the vast majority want optional dungeon/solo quest scaling.0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.I'd call this a classic case of l2p.
I wish people would stop using that term at every opportunity.
It just makes them look stupid.
If you want to make the point, then actually spell it out, say what they need to learn, then I'll respect the person saying it.Edited by AlexDougherty on November 5, 2014 4:39PMPeople believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.
Remove your gear. Run to first monster in the instance 15 times and die, always ress to wayshrine (don't spend soulgems) and hopefully instance has scaled down enough. Put gear on, PROFIT.
Most of the monsters in the instances are simpletons. Only pull out the nerf bat when they are too hard. Otherwise, wait until you get to the first boss.
It is only necessary to put the gear on at the end if you really want to. I accidentally killed a famously tough solo boss in my underwear. I swear I was trying to be easy on him, but alas, he perished.
Regarding my vote. With the options available and what I see today, I think that the scaling should be forced and not optional. However, I think that there should be a difficulty slider that determines the magnitude of the scaling. This would have a center setting that is what it is today with the ability to raise or lower it to suit the player.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.Not to get too far off topic, but each one in our 4 man dungeon group carries with them a couple of armor repair kits, plenty of food, potions, soul gems, etc. You need to be prepared if you are Undaunted
The Undaunted send you to Group Dungeons. So, you have help there. Peopel also expect Group Dungeons to be much harder. You have to die in the solo dungeons to get the Boss to ratchet down. You can't get help in a forced Solo Dungeon.
Also, does the game count how many times you die overall in the dungeon or only for that instance that you are in there? If the former, one can go and repair their armor. For the latter, then there will never be any easing of the content as it always resets.
And, asking someone to spend a few thousand on repair kits (you need 7 of them for a full set of armor and they get real expensive at higher levels) is kind of burdensome. Maybe ZOS took a look at Armor Repair kits sales, saw that few players buy them and thought this would be a good way to suck gold out of the economy.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like the new level scaling, and feel that it should NOT be optional, so that everyone is required to complete these instances without over-leveling them.AlexDougherty wrote: »
What to learn? Isn't it obvious? Learning how to deal with various situations so you are able to actually complete them, instead of sitting on the forums and complaining that things are 'too hard' just because you don't feel like putting the required effort into it.
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Duccea✭✭✭I like the new level scaling, but feel that it SHOULD be optional, so players can choose to have the instance scaled to their level or not.Scaling is borked. Badly. Problem aint that much that they scale. Seems that the mobs got buffed by pretty much same algorithm. This makes different bosses different. Say all bosses in yesterdays daily seem to be buffed with a lot more hp/they hit a bit harder. This effects bosses differently.
Now it feels bad, bosses are so different depending of the original mechanics. Now they are ok/boring/ridiculous and those have nothing to do with how hard the bosses used to be.
Indeed, right now it just feels like all the bosses simply got the same health/damage boost with no regards of their mechanics. Some bosses are still easy, some now provide an adequate challenge, and others are ridiculously hard now.
I'm not against scaling, not even against forced scaling per se, but it that is the case, it has to be implemented in a way that is balanced to be in tune with the respective bosses mechanics, instead of slapping the same amount of health and damage boosts on all of them.
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