Champion System - No Retroactive XP Reward

Raapnaap · October 2014

Ouch, I knew I shouldn't have resubbed and finished gold before this update hit, now I'm screwed.

Looks like all the people that claimed everything is retroactive were wrong...

kewl · October 2014

lordspyder wrote: »

What the issue is that the Champ system will introduce XP bonuses to Vet Characters for things like exploration and opening chests. These things do not give XP to Vet characters ATM.

After the Change, they will, but they're not going to back credit those of us that have done those things after the change, So If I', vet 1 now, and have all of Auridon explored, I effectively loose all that exploration XP I would of gotten if I had just waited.

Great explanation.

As long as we are given adequate compensation in Champion Points, it doesn't matter that we missed this XP.

Nazon_Katts · October 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

@ZOS_PaulSage stated in the recent ESO Live, there won't be any XP rewards retroactively given for playing content (exploration, treasure chests, etc) when they make the conversion from VP to XP. His reasoning was that they must be careful about spreading players too far progression wise and therefore cannot reimburse lost xp on the aforementioned activities.

I strongly disagree with this decision and question the reasons given. This is due to the following reasons:
XP can be stashed up to a cap

fastest and easiest way to stash up on XP is grinding

grinders already are way ahead of the curve, but still can earn more

playing content slows progression and puts you well behind the curve

lost content xp probably would never be enough to hit cap

lost content xp would only help with catching up

Instead it's getting ignored altogether, further disincentivizing playing content and promoting the grind. Instead of making sure that players are closer to each other in progression, this only widens the gap. Denying players acknowledgment for their efforts they put into actually playing content you've created, will only lead to more players refusing to play said content.

While I do not have any quarrels with the grind per say and strongly believe it must have a place in the game, I cannot fathom how playing content is constantly made less appealing and grinding more rewarding.

If you want a more even playing field, reconsider this decision. If you want to show some respect to the folks who play content, reconsider this decision.

Grinding actually gives lots of VP but terrible XP.

Fastest grind for just XP is questing.

After the transition, you may have a point. Right now, since VR/VP will equal VR/XP, VP is XP however. But XP not VP and as thus not (yet) considered. All the while VP were fast and easy to get, XP were a bit slower to gain, exploration considerably slower and less.

Still, that which was readily available and didn't take much effort to gain will make a full transition to the new system right away, making sure people that got ahead stay ahead, while the harder to gain and lesser sum won't even be considered (for now) and people that put effort into this are being put on wait to catch up at least a tiny bit.

Is it a relatively small amount? Yes. Is it a non-issue because of that? No, not to me. Because I want to this part of the game to be improved upon rather than deemed unimportant and not attention worthy.

And fastest XP grind currently is the mob grind.

Could be dungeon runs plus dailies will top that, but then it's two runs plus mobs for the enthusiastic leveler. I don't see that change populating underpopulated areas of the game, it just shifts were the "grind" will take place.

It's better than what we got now, for sure, but why is adding to the game such a problem for you folks, that always seem like they ain't got problems with anything, but people having problems and voicing concerns.

ExiledKhallisi · October 2014

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

@ZOS_PaulSage stated in the recent ESO Live, there won't be any XP rewards retroactively given for playing content (exploration, treasure chests, etc) when they make the conversion from VP to XP. His reasoning was that they must be careful about spreading players too far progression wise and therefore cannot reimburse lost xp on the aforementioned activities.

I strongly disagree with this decision and question the reasons given. This is due to the following reasons:
XP can be stashed up to a cap

fastest and easiest way to stash up on XP is grinding

grinders already are way ahead of the curve, but still can earn more

playing content slows progression and puts you well behind the curve

lost content xp probably would never be enough to hit cap

lost content xp would only help with catching up

Instead it's getting ignored altogether, further disincentivizing playing content and promoting the grind. Instead of making sure that players are closer to each other in progression, this only widens the gap. Denying players acknowledgment for their efforts they put into actually playing content you've created, will only lead to more players refusing to play said content.

While I do not have any quarrels with the grind per say and strongly believe it must have a place in the game, I cannot fathom how playing content is constantly made less appealing and grinding more rewarding.

If you want a more even playing field, reconsider this decision. If you want to show some respect to the folks who play content, reconsider this decision.

Grinding actually gives lots of VP but terrible XP.

Fastest grind for just XP is questing.

After the transition, you may have a point. Right now, since VR/VP will equal VR/XP, VP is XP however. But XP not VP and as thus not (yet) considered. All the while VP were fast and easy to get, XP were a bit slower to gain, exploration considerably slower and less.

Still, that which was readily available and didn't take much effort to gain will make a full transition to the new system right away, making sure people that got ahead stay ahead, while the harder to gain and lesser sum won't even be considered (for now) and people that put effort into this are being put on wait to catch up at least a tiny bit.

Is it a relatively small amount? Yes. Is it a non-issue because of that? No, not to me. Because I want to this part of the game to be improved upon rather than deemed unimportant and not attention worthy.

And fastest XP grind currently is the mob grind.

Could be dungeon runs plus dailies will top that, but then it's two runs plus mobs for the enthusiastic leveler. I don't see that change populating underpopulated areas of the game, it just shifts were the "grind" will take place.

It's better than what we got now, for sure, but why is adding to the game such a problem for you folks, that always seem like they ain't got problems with anything, but people having problems and voicing concerns.

They are really not the same thing even right now. Go to craglorn kill a boss there 30 times you get a decent amount of VP but you will notice your skill levels barely moved. That's because they are only effected by XP. Just One quest will move the XP bar of a skill by around 1/5. About the same amount you would gain after around 2hrs boss grinding in crag.

Core area quests after vr8 give 44k XP crag bosses give 37k VP

It seems XP counts as both where as VP is just vp

Gillysan · October 2014

It's not that they are devaluing your playstyle niche, it's that this makes no sense at all to me. Let's say WoW (never played) raises the level cap by 50 with a new expansion (it's their usual solution, right?) and they say the moment it goes live you get those 50 levels because you could bank xp before it was released. Let's say this is the first expansion in 2 years. Why would they bother even working on an expansion, if all they were going to do is give you those levels they had been working on for 2 years?

Only because they are removing the Veteran Rank system in it's entirety have they offered to give us something for our time and effort in it. If this was a straight forward expansion of the game I would expect nothing to put me ahead in it. I would expect to have to play through it.

Enodoc · October 2014

This is a bit of an odd revelation, particularly since they said they are tracking XP gains after you hit Veteran.
(This is entirely true, by the way, as VPs are only gained by conversion from XP; XP is accumulated invisibly after you hit Veteran, but it still increases.)

Regarding Exploration XP - discovering every single location in the Silver and Gold zones will give you about 20% of one Veteran Rank under the new system. Since the requirements to rank up are (reportedly) lower, I don't think missing out on that 20% (2% per zone) will matter greatly.

ZOS_MSchroeder · October 2014

In preparation for the Champion System (which, to be clear, is not slated for Update 5), we are watching all sources of Experience Point gain – including, but not limited to, the monsters you kill, the quests you complete, the places you find, and the locks you unlock. When the Champion System begins, you will receive Champion Points based on the Experience Points you gained from all these activities. You will also receive a set number of Champion Points for every Veteran Rank your characters already have.

We’re still working on the exact numbers for this conversion, however. We’ll have more details at a later date.

Raapnaap · October 2014

MSchroeder wrote: »

we are watching all sources of Experience Point gain – including, but not limited to, the monsters you kill, the quests you complete, the places you find, and the locks you unlock. When the Champion System begins, you will receive Champion Points based on the Experience Points you gained from all these activities.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Tanis-Stormbinder · October 2014

Thank Nirn, I'm already VR14 and completed Cadwell's Gold and all of the exploration quest in all three Alliances. Good to know my time wasn't wasted.

Enodoc · October 2014

MSchroeder wrote: »

In preparation for the Champion System (which, to be clear, is not slated for Update 5), we are watching all sources of Experience Point gain – including, but not limited to, the monsters you kill, the quests you complete, the places you find, and the locks you unlock. When the Champion System begins, you will receive Champion Points based on the Experience Points you gained from all these activities. You will also receive a set number of Champion Points for every Veteran Rank your characters already have.

We’re still working on the exact numbers for this conversion, however. We’ll have more details at a later date.

Ah now that makes a bit more sense. The XP is tracked and going towards the Champion System, but it is not necessarily all going into the VR advancement system at this stage.

Raapnaap wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up.

Indeed. +1

lordspyder · October 2014

Govalon wrote: »

lordspyder wrote: »

RSram wrote: »

What I take from the OP is that the champion system will remove many XP bonuses in the game, and if you haven't earn them before the conversion to the champion system, you can no longer earn them.

Any XP you currently earned will be converted to the champion system.

Am I correct in my interpretation?

It would really *** off a large number of players if they lost XP already earned. I will cancel my subscription if this is the case.

not even close. What the issue is that the Champ system will introduce XP bonuses to Vet Characters for things like exploration and opening chests. These things do not give XP to Vet characters ATM. After the Change, they will, but they're not going to back credit those of us that have done those things after the change, So If I', vet 1 now, and have all of Auridon explored, I effectively loose all that exploration XP I would of gotten if I had just waited.

So you are afraid you lose all of those 5 xp you got from exploration? And another 10 xp lost from chests? Just kill one boss in Craglorn and you have already accumulated more xp than all players in the game combined from chests and exploration. This is not an issue because xp from something like exploration is negible if you are past something like level 20

Again, I was just explaining the issue to someone who was way off base. I do not agree that it is an issue at all. I just wanted to clarify to someone who was getting upset about something that wasn't happening in the first place.

DigitalHype · October 2014

Raapnaap wrote: »

Ouch, I knew I shouldn't have resubbed and finished gold before this update hit, now I'm screwed.

Looks like all the people that claimed everything is retroactive were wrong...

We should have seen this coming. They were unable to retroactively award many achievements. The problem is the same. They simply do not have the data.

Nazon_Katts · October 2014

Still, when you've done all exploration and you're not max VR, you won't get the XPs towards your VR. OTOH, someone who hasn't done it yet, will have them counted towards his VR. So when the CP conversion happens

Char A with all exploration done prior 1.5 and below max VR will get CP based on his XP and VR without Exploration
Char B with all exploration done after 1.5 and below max VR will get CP based on XP and VR gained with Exploration

Even if it's just 20% of a VR, it could be it's just the 20% missing and pushing one to the next rank. Which in turn would award CP, which you won't get, when you've done it all before. As neglible as it might seem to most, for some it does count and when it really doesn't matter, why then not just reward it, since it cannot hurt anybody, but make a few feel better in turn.

Anyone at max VR won't have any benefit from that anyways, so it won't imbalance anything either, but those XP are lost in the conversion to those that would have gained a rank with them. In that case, the point remains that rewards are not given where rewards are due.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · October 2014

MercutioElessar wrote: »

Except for the part where he says grinding has it's place (I strongly disagree with that): /sign.

Grinding does have its place though. If a huge part of the player base wants to level up that way its here, it happens, that's the end of it. Even of those who go pure on first toon, lots will do some grinding if they roll another character. Saying you don't think it has a place is simply denying/ ignoring a part of mmo culture.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

(Paul Sage:) that would put people so far ahead in the Champion System that that might actually hurt it

I really don't get this. Anyone new to the game will always see lots of players way ahead of them in skill and character progression. Why do we arbitrarily need to level the playing field for all existing players? Why make everyone more equal for a short while if that is going to change anyway? Don't they expect more players to join the game in the future? If the system cannot handle a situation where some players are way ahead of the rest, then what are its chances to work in the long term?

I'm fine with being seriously dominated by players who spend all day with the game. I do not feel entitled to be on equal footing with people who have the time to treat this game as a competitive sport rather than spare time leisure. It could be nice to have segregated PvP instances for those of us who are not really amused with getting smacked by overwhelming forces of "elite soldiers", but trying to create a level playing field across the board seems futile and counterproductive.

*cough* Communism *cough*

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · October 2014

MSchroeder wrote: »

In preparation for the Champion System (which, to be clear, is not slated for Update 5), we are watching all sources of Experience Point gain – including, but not limited to, the monsters you kill, the quests you complete, the places you find, and the locks you unlock. When the Champion System begins, you will receive Champion Points based on the Experience Points you gained from all these activities. You will also receive a set number of Champion Points for every Veteran Rank your characters already have.

We’re still working on the exact numbers for this conversion, however. We’ll have more details at a later date.

@MSchroeder

Thank you so much Sir, posts like your's really help alleviate fears of the unknown when it comes to the Champion System.