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How would you like to hide your vampirism?
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Resueht✭✭✭Ok, ok, I know how to make everyone happy.
Nerf all vamp skills, take 75% fire damage, and get healing debuff in sunlight. At that point, vampires can look like whatever they want because it would be a pure cosmetic/RP choice and not a viable play style!
In all seriousness, I sympathize with OP (yet usually detest his/her rhetoric and argumentative style... sorry, just seems naive); however, I believe the balance between vamps and literally everything else needs to be balanced before cosmetics are addressed. Game play is the core of any game and should ironed out before anything else. Update 1.5 seems to bring some balance to vamp line so we will see if that is enough. If it is, by all means, devs can pursue an option to hide vampirism TO A DEGREE.
Now as a werewolf, if vamps get cosmetic changes, I would like to see something for WW to transform in a non-combat way, maybe with a ring (Ring of Hircine?) or some type of totem. After all, we're all about balance, right? If vamps want to hide their monster-face, we should be ale to show ours.If she doesn't know the pain of cliffracers, she's too young for you.3 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »As you can see, Ravenwatch DOES look normal when you first meet him. No, he does not become a vampire at some later point in the quest. He is a vampire in the first picture, just as he is in the second. HE EVEN TELLS YOU HE "HIDES" HIS APPEARANCE AT THE INSISTENCE OF KING EMERIC.
We've been through all of this already, and you already know that Ravenwatch is a pureblood vampire of a completely different strain than player characters.
He was turned directly by Molag Bal. He has different powers than a player character would have.
I can't believe you're here spouting this same tired old argument over again even after it was completely debunked in your other thread.
Did you think that everyone would just forget about that? Well, I'm still here, and I will still call out this silly lore-breaking argument.
I have no problem w/ your crusade for vampire appearance changes, even though I am 100% against the changes you wish to implement.
What I have a problem w/ is you trying to mislead people through a flawed argument that you already know to be flawed, and yet are using anyway.MornaBaine wrote: »And what you say is true... that vampires of the strain that currently exist in the game cannot, according to lore, change their appearance by any "natural" (for whatever that's worth since we're talking about fictional creatures in a fictional world and mythos! lol) means. I agree.
Pretty sure that this is you acknowledging the fact that player character vampires cannot change their appearance like Ravenwatch can, as they are completely different strains of vampirism.Edited by Varicite on October 28, 2014 6:10PM2 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok, ok, I know how to make everyone happy.
Nerf all vamp skills, take 75% fire damage, and get healing debuff in sunlight. At that point, vampires can look like whatever they want because it would be a pure cosmetic/RP choice and not a viable play style!
In all seriousness, I sympathize with OP (yet usually detest his/her rhetoric and argumentative style... sorry, just seems naive); however, I believe the balance between vamps and literally everything else needs to be balanced before cosmetics are addressed. Game play is the core of any game and should ironed out before anything else. Update 1.5 seems to bring some balance to vamp line so we will see if that is enough. If it is, by all means, devs can pursue an option to hide vampirism TO A DEGREE.
Now as a werewolf, if vamps get cosmetic changes, I would like to see something for WW to transform in a non-combat way, maybe with a ring (Ring of Hircine?) or some type of totem. After all, we're all about balance, right? If vamps want to hide their monster-face, we should be ale to show ours.
Eh, the vamp hate gets old. And the OP's just passionate, she(assuming here) like many other have been fans of vampire lore since before their introduction to the ES Universe's take on them, and LONG before Twilight b@$t#rdized the hell out of them.
The main problem with vamp's imbalance is how cheap the damn Ultimate is, they could fix ALL the whining and griping if they just up'd the cost and made it immune to Ultimate Cost reduction. ZOS really has a problem with overreacting. They never try the simplest solution first they just barrel headlong into F#$% IT! CUT THAT IN HALF!
And I don't think anyone who's PRO "change vamp appearance" wants to hide the effects of Stage 3 and 4. I personally, just want my Stage 1 to look a lot less like a woman with a giant makeup applicator slapped him with "YOU LOOK PALE NAO" makeup powder.
Also, I think it would be awesome if Werewolves could get some eye glow going on, or maybe some partial transformations. Something very "An American Werewolf in London" with shirt ripping and protruding bones, teeth and claws and what not.
Make it bestial.
Not "AAAAAAAAAAAAH *reddish glow* POOF *SQUELCH* I'M A PUPPY!"Edited by WraithAzraiel on October 28, 2014 6:08PMShendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh Morna, how did I know that this thread would be yours. : P
Still fighting the fight, I see.
Are we still harping on that whole "Ravenwatch can hide, so I can too" argument? Do I have to debunk it all over again in this thread too?
And no doubt you will once again trot out your, "These NPCs are special snowflakes and you, player scum who pays a subscription, cannot be like them! You will never be as special! You MUST remain different and lesser! No matter how many Vet levels you have or how vast your magicka pool! Or how many months you've been subscribed! You are bloodfiend scum and you can NEVER rise above it! Because.... lore!"
LOL Yes, I'm picking on you but I hope you'll take it in the spirit intended because I don't dislike you and you're one of the few people who can actually have a rational debate on this subject.
But once again I'm going to have to say that "because lore" does not cut it as an argument AGAINST being able to hide vampirism. For a few reasons. We don't actually KNOW how Ravewatch does it but there's every bit of good reason to believe it's just as easily the result of him being a powerful MAGE and NOT the result of his special snowflake relationship with Molag Bal. EITHER could be true. Also, IF ZoS decides to implement a way for this to happen for players... it BECOMES lore. And it can CERTAINLY be done in a lore-friendly way that does not invalidate or circumvent previous lore. In fact, the more I've turned it over in my head since first beginning to consider this subject, the "because lore" argument actually ends up being one of the weakest ones.
And there is no more of a "because lore" reason NOT to change the whole shebang of how vampires look and how the Stages work than there is to never change how Templar skills work. Skills and classes will FOREVER be changing as the game grows. Should we not have Spellcrafting because since thus far all the spells your Mage has had access to are now part of "lore," ( and since adding new ones or taking away old ones would somehow invalidate that "lore,") it can't be done? Of COURSE it can be done! It WILL and SHOULD be done. Same for vamps. That is all.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!4 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.
We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.
because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.
I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.
Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.
So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.
Extending the stages is a great idea, one I hope comes in to play since the speed they go by makes the short day/night cycle seem jarring. We'll have to agree to disagree on the visual revision though. I like that all vampires have these curse seeping out, and I look forward to the day when NPCs notice as well. I just don't think the player should be allowed to escape the consequences of an optional skill line - especially when said consequences are the vast norm lorewise.
But the visuals in ESO are FAR more jarring than in, say, Skyrim. Toning it down, but not doing away with it, and extending the time (by a LOT!) for the Stages would pretty much be a very acceptable "fix" for me.
For instance, here is my character in Stage 1
Now contrast that with Serana:
As you can see, the skin is not nearly so extreme and the overall appearance, while clearly not "normal" is far more subtle. THAT is what I am aiming for as a Stage 1. What do you think?
Oh, editing to add: Vampires should be able to wear lipstick! BECAUSE their lips are so pale! LOL
We're also talking about an important NPC that not only has a special bloodline, special age, and special ties to the elder scroll - but is mechanically supposed to appeal to the players humanity and was purposely designed to look less monstrous than, say, random pale vampire in whatever cave the quest system sent the player to.
Edit: I wholly agree with the makeup though. We need a beautician in game that will let us edit hair, makeup, scars, face paint, etc.
But MY point is...she EXISTS! She shows us that there is the POSSIBILITY of vampires looking less than completely monstrous. Is she a special snowflake? Sure, and for all the reasons you describe. But there's just really no good reason to say that because of this players can NEVER hope to achieve something similar.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.
We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.
because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.
I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.
Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.
So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.
Extending the stages is a great idea, one I hope comes in to play since the speed they go by makes the short day/night cycle seem jarring. We'll have to agree to disagree on the visual revision though. I like that all vampires have these curse seeping out, and I look forward to the day when NPCs notice as well. I just don't think the player should be allowed to escape the consequences of an optional skill line - especially when said consequences are the vast norm lorewise.
But the visuals in ESO are FAR more jarring than in, say, Skyrim. Toning it down, but not doing away with it, and extending the time (by a LOT!) for the Stages would pretty much be a very acceptable "fix" for me.
For instance, here is my character in Stage 1
Now contrast that with Serana:
As you can see, the skin is not nearly so extreme and the overall appearance, while clearly not "normal" is far more subtle. THAT is what I am aiming for as a Stage 1. What do you think?
Oh, editing to add: Vampires should be able to wear lipstick! BECAUSE their lips are so pale! LOL
We're also talking about an important NPC that not only has a special bloodline, special age, and special ties to the elder scroll - but is mechanically supposed to appeal to the players humanity and was purposely designed to look less monstrous than, say, random pale vampire in whatever cave the quest system sent the player to.
Edit: I wholly agree with the makeup though. We need a beautician in game that will let us edit hair, makeup, scars, face paint, etc.
But MY point is...she EXISTS! She shows us that there is the POSSIBILITY of vampires looking less than completely monstrous. Is she a special snowflake? Sure, and for all the reasons you describe. But there's just really no good reason to say that because of this players can NEVER hope to achieve something similar.
But that is why we shouldn't achieve it. It diminishes her and other forefront characters. Its jarring seeing a fairly attractive (for skyrim) woman appear in the quest as she did, and even more surprising how easily her vampirism is forgotten and ignored because she's uniquely unlike all the Vampires we see up to that point in the game, right down to her appearance.
Its the same reason we won't ever have thuum even though regular nords were capable of learning it. ZOS has opened up the possibility for multiple lore reasons and multiple gameplay reasons why we aren't able to, and I really hope they stick to it. We're cursed, there should be no sugar coating of it, especially since it's 110% optional.Edited by BBSooner on October 28, 2014 8:18PM4 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭But only for stage 1, and i want guards to attack me when i am at stage 4.>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<3 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can't believe you're here spouting this same tired old argument over again even after it was completely debunked in your other thread.
Did you think that everyone would just forget about that? Well, I'm still here, and I will still call out this silly lore-breaking argument.
I have no problem w/ your crusade for vampire appearance changes, even though I am 100% against the changes you wish to implement.
What I have a problem w/ is you trying to mislead people through a flawed argument that you already know to be flawed, and yet are using anyway.
You should well remember your argument using lore as a basis is just as flawed, seeing as lore can be used to both support and argue against this change, as the other thread glaringly showed. Especially since I used a whole lot of lore available to support my arguments on there to notate the different type of vampires available around Tamriel and their available abilities and how that could be implemented into ESO.
Then you decided to try attacking where I got the Lore from, as if it actually mattered.
Frankly, ESO Lore is kinda like the Bible. It can be interpreted however an individual wants using the very passages and in the case of the a came, actual in game quotes and storyline to back any individuals option, and can even be changed to suit the times.
So to say that the OP's argument is flawed "Because Lore" only shows that your own arguments using it as a basis are just as flawed.
I have agreed with the OP about this option for a few months now, but, I do not feel it should be automatically given, it must be a skill or costume that is earned. I posted an idea I had regarding end game activity when Vet/Champion levels are hit in the future where not only vampire skills could be expanded upon, but also Werewolves and all Classes could be livened up and add more diversity to the game at higher levels.
Also, if they are rolling out an Expert Hunter where people light up like Christmas trees in Cyrodiil, then there should be an achievable option for players to be able to combat that, and it should not be something that is automatically given, but has to be an earned skill or item.
Additionally, If town guards are going to be reacting to Vampires in town, especially Stage 3 or Stage 4, then they should be increasing the time of the Stages to compensate. Stage 1-6hrs, Stage 2 - 8hrs, Stage 3 - 10hrs.
I just find it funny that given the number of vampires running around Tamriel there is any Mer left, given how often a vamp PC has to feed to remain at stage 1. I ate 20people in a 10hr period the other day to ensure I stayed at that stage.
Far too many characters to list any more.6 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭phreatophile wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »DenverRalphy wrote: »I've lost track of how many threads the OP has started on this same subject. In addition to his not wanting to look like a Vamp, he also wants the stages gimped as well.
There's actually a very simple solution... Don't like it as it is? Don't become one. Stop campaigning to make becoming a Vamp a trivial decision.
Don't like that your class is unbalanced or broken? Stop complaining! Play another class! See how that works?
So now your class / race is broken because its not visually attractive to your eye?No offence but are you really trying to put this as an argument now since all the others were rejected?
Seriously, if you don't like how a Vampire looks like why even play one? It seems like you don't even want to identify yourself with that role, you want something pretty and cute and hey this isn't what a vampire is.
This is typically the MO. Reject all reasonable response because it doesn't affirm thiers. Attack those that don't subscribe to that point of view, but typically attack the peripheral matter and not the substance. Then re-Asshurt the position/opinion.... rinse repeat.
Oldest story on these forums, Vampires hurt someone in Cyrodill and as somesort of misguided revenge, they come in and lift their leg all over a thread about RP aspects of Vampirism.
Just for your information, I am not even at Cyrodil so a Vampire cant kill me there
My argumentation is because of the RP aspects, I don't want to see such a "beauty vampire" in ESO as it doesn't fit the design and lore of ESO.
Vampires are designed in a specific way and people have chosen Vampires because of that aspect. To deny them their appearance just doesn't work. Yes its not his ideal "look" for vampires but to take that look away even if its just in the interface options just doesn't seem to be a good idea.Edited by Audigy on October 28, 2014 11:18PM1 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »DenverRalphy wrote: »I've lost track of how many threads the OP has started on this same subject. In addition to his not wanting to look like a Vamp, he also wants the stages gimped as well.
There's actually a very simple solution... Don't like it as it is? Don't become one. Stop campaigning to make becoming a Vamp a trivial decision.
Don't like that your class is unbalanced or broken? Stop complaining! Play another class! See how that works?
So now your class / race is broken because its not visually attractive to your eye?No offence but are you really trying to put this as an argument now since all the others were rejected?
Seriously, if you don't like how a Vampire looks like why even play one? It seems like you don't even want to identify yourself with that role, you want something pretty and cute and hey this isn't what a vampire is.
Whether it's a matter of your class being "broken" or a matter of simple cosmetic appearance, what BOTH boil down to is PLAYER SATISFACTION with their character. If a player is not satisfied with ANY aspect of their character, they are at perfect liberty to let ZoS know what the problem is for them and suggest those things they feel would fix it. One type of player dissatisfaction is not actually less important than another.
You speak about your satisfaction but you completely ignore the fact that a Vampire is not a pretty thing. For you the design of vampires is wrong - the reasons for that while clear to me and in my opinion wrong need to be tolerated and accepted.
That said, you can not demand that a whole design is changed just because of you. Right from the beginning you knew how Vampires would be presented at ESO, you knew what the ups and downs would be and if you cant accept those then why choose that road for your char?
I asked that question before and I will repeat it. Why did you choose to become a vampire if you can not identify yourself with that class / skill line? To me this just doesn't make sense.
Okay, I'll answer your question. First of all, I DON'T identify myself with any of my characters. They are characters I PLAY. They aren't me. I don't play in first person to get that "I am there" feeling. I play pulled out from my character so I am seeing them all the time. And during roleplay I am forever moving my camera around to see everyone I am interacting with and therefore also end up seeing my character's face a lot. Currently, this is not a good thing.
Why did I choose to play a vampire? Because of the previous ES games where they are nothing like they are in ESO. I naively did not realize just HOW BAD they would really be. I didn't want to believe they were some half-baked sop thrown in at the last minute just to sucker in people like me who were expecting vampires to have some consistency with the previous games and that they would actually be fun to play. I didn't realize they would be THAT HIDEOUS and that they would be hideous MOST OF THE TIME. I stick with it because my entire character concept for this particular character is built around her being a vampire. From a storytelling perspective, vampires ARE fun. Unfortunately ZoS seems to have decided to do everything possible to discourage people from playing them.
And believe me, it's not "just" me who is dissatisfied with this. Visit teso-rp some time if you want the TRUE perspective of a fairly large potion of the playerbase who play vampires. But most of those people won't set foot in these forums because of the unbelievable rudeness and abuse they encounter when they do dare to do so.
I'm willing to give ZoS some time to fix this and listen to their players. If it turns out they are more willing to cave to the haters than to do a few things that won't actually impact those who, for whatever reason, LIKE the monstrous appearance, I'm going to have to rethink my continued financial support of this game. And if they've done nothing on this issue by this game's first anniversary, I will likely drop my sub. But before that happens I'm going to do my darndest to be the squeeky wheel and will continue to advocate for vampires that are actually enjoyable to play.
I don't think its a good idea to call others a hater just because they don't agree with your suggestion.
The person I responded to earlier accused me of being killed by a Vampire and therefore I now want my revenge...
Sorry, but this is a silly argumentation that just doesn't work among adults.
To me the road of a Vampire if I ever go it will be a choice based on lore and interpretation of my own story line with that char. To me playing a Vampire would automatically mean that the Char cant walk in the sunlight, would not be able to set foot on holy ground, could not eat real food but only blood etc.
This however is not possible at ESO because many people pick Vampires for their strengths and not for their weakness and the game is designed to allow them their vampirism even though it is not really "believable".
I am not sure what applies to you but guess what would happen if I would present my idea of how Vampires should be to the public in the same way you do?
You are passionate about your idea but you need to understand that ZO designed Vampires in that way and no matter if you or I like it, its how it is. We need to play with what we received by ZO, my Vampire will never come and I am afraid your Vampire wont either.
Personally I like that Vampires are visible to the eye, if they take this away as well then Vampires would purely be a "custom skill setting" and no longer a lore aspect which I would find sad.Edited by Audigy on October 28, 2014 11:19PM2 -
Elf_Boy✭✭✭GreyPilgrim wrote: »I predict that when 1.5 goes live, it no longer will be Elder Vampires Online in Cyrodiil.
Takes this into consideration.
1. Vamps will no longer be the OP FOTM character making it 'the' choice for PvP
2. Bats will have had it's second nerf by 1.5
3. Vampire toons are ugly
4. They will glow to anyone with Evil hunter equipped
5. Lousy fire resistance making vamps a piñata for DK's and their flame skills
6. Many have said on the forum they will become outright vampire hunters
I'm not sure why anyone apart from RP'ers would continue on with vamps after the 1.5 update.
Dark Stalker. Loves ma stealth mobility.
Honestly, I figured it was mostly RPr's calling for the appearance nerf, so that they can play sexy Twilight toons. I don't think there's that many PvPr's who give a rats back end how their toon looks unless it makes them a target, and there's already costumes and helmets that cover yer eyes, so already multiple ways to hide vamp for PvP.
Any RP player worth their salt can play a sexy vampire, with our without the vampire skill line and regardless of the in game appearance.
If you can rp using a lump of pewter or some other item on a table top, well....** Asus Crosshair VI Hero, Ryzen 1800x, 64GB DDR4 @ 3000, GTX 1080 ti, 4K Samsung 3d Display m.2 Sata 3 Boot Drive, m.2 x4 nvme Game Drive **4 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.
We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.
because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.
I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.
Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.
So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.
Extending the stages is a great idea, one I hope comes in to play since the speed they go by makes the short day/night cycle seem jarring. We'll have to agree to disagree on the visual revision though. I like that all vampires have these curse seeping out, and I look forward to the day when NPCs notice as well. I just don't think the player should be allowed to escape the consequences of an optional skill line - especially when said consequences are the vast norm lorewise.
But the visuals in ESO are FAR more jarring than in, say, Skyrim. Toning it down, but not doing away with it, and extending the time (by a LOT!) for the Stages would pretty much be a very acceptable "fix" for me.
For instance, here is my character in Stage 1
Now contrast that with Serana:
As you can see, the skin is not nearly so extreme and the overall appearance, while clearly not "normal" is far more subtle. THAT is what I am aiming for as a Stage 1. What do you think?
Oh, editing to add: Vampires should be able to wear lipstick! BECAUSE their lips are so pale! LOL
We're also talking about an important NPC that not only has a special bloodline, special age, and special ties to the elder scroll - but is mechanically supposed to appeal to the players humanity and was purposely designed to look less monstrous than, say, random pale vampire in whatever cave the quest system sent the player to.
Edit: I wholly agree with the makeup though. We need a beautician in game that will let us edit hair, makeup, scars, face paint, etc.
But MY point is...she EXISTS! She shows us that there is the POSSIBILITY of vampires looking less than completely monstrous. Is she a special snowflake? Sure, and for all the reasons you describe. But there's just really no good reason to say that because of this players can NEVER hope to achieve something similar.
But that is why we shouldn't achieve it. It diminishes her and other forefront characters. Its jarring seeing a fairly attractive (for skyrim) woman appear in the quest as she did, and even more surprising how easily her vampirism is forgotten and ignored because she's uniquely unlike all the Vampires we see up to that point in the game, right down to her appearance.
Its the same reason we won't ever have thuum even though regular nords were capable of learning it. ZOS has opened up the possibility for multiple lore reasons and multiple gameplay reasons why we aren't able to, and I really hope they stick to it. We're cursed, there should be no sugar coating of it, especially since it's 110% optional.
In the previous games no one recognized you as a vampire until Stage 4. Why? Because you frankly didn't look all that bad. You sure as Hades didn't look anywhere near as freakish as this game makes Stages 3 and 4. And the Stages actually lasted a realistic amount of time. If the only thing they did was tone down Stage 1 and 2 and make Stage 1 last a full 6 hours (since that's how long game days are) and Stage 2 last for 3 hours I'd be perfectly content. ESO vampires DON'T look anything like the playable vamps in the previous games. And as it is completely illogical to accept the premise that 1. a strain of vampirism that requires you to continuously feed, SEVERAL times a day, AND 2. makes you look freakishly monstrous and obviously inhuman is going to become COMMON rather than easily being quickly hunted to extinction, it needs to be changed. There is no reason to quietly accept bad design "because lore." This type of vampire really does not fit with previous lore and is no more acceptable because it's been around in its terrible state since launch. That would be exactly like saying they could not make the upcoming rather radical improvements to werewolves because it's already "lore" that they be exactly the way they are. Changes to ANY class or skill can and should be done as the game evolves.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!4 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »As you can see, Ravenwatch DOES look normal when you first meet him. No, he does not become a vampire at some later point in the quest. He is a vampire in the first picture, just as he is in the second. HE EVEN TELLS YOU HE "HIDES" HIS APPEARANCE AT THE INSISTENCE OF KING EMERIC.
We've been through all of this already, and you already know that Ravenwatch is a pureblood vampire of a completely different strain than player characters.
He was turned directly by Molag Bal. He has different powers than a player character would have.
Was he? He never says so. He refers to Molag Bal as his "master." A designation anyone serving Molag Bal might use. He never comes out and says Molag Bal directly turned him and there is plenty of lore to suggest he did not. There ARE NO "Sons of Coldharbor" in lore but only "Daughters of Coldharbor." What we DO know is that Ravenwatch is a powerful mage. THAT much is demonstrated throughout the quest. He tells us he "hides" his condition at the insistence of his friend King Emeric. This suggests that it isn't an innate ability of his, nor does it suggest that it's in any way "natural" for him to appear as a non-vampire. He obviously is NOT of the Cyrodilic variety. It DOES suggest that he does it through magic, probably as an illusion.
So you can argue it your way, and have every chance of being "right" but so can I because at the end of the day there is absolutely no way to KNOW one way or the other and either "reading" of Count Ravenwatch is equally plausible.
*snip of general rudeness that adds nothing of substance*MornaBaine wrote: »And what you say is true... that vampires of the strain that currently exist in the game cannot, according to lore, change their appearance by any "natural" (for whatever that's worth since we're talking about fictional creatures in a fictional world and mythos! lol) means. I agree.
Pretty sure that this is you acknowledging the fact that player character vampires cannot change their appearance like Ravenwatch can, as they are completely different strains of vampirism.
AS THEY CURRENTLY STAND, yes. However, what you are conveniently "forgetting" is that it is always possible that ZoS will make changes to that and if they do it in no way "goes against lore." In fact, it then BECOMES lore. Refusing to accept changes to vampires is exactly the same as refusing to allow changes to any other skill line in the game "because lore." THAT is the weak argument.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
Has no one mentioned Babette or Alva from Skyrim? They're not pureblooded, but hid their appearance pretty well. Sybille Stentor did too, unless you installed Dawnguard.3 -
G0ku✭✭✭✭Hope ZOS never pays attention to these kind of threads until they sorted out the things regarding gameplay functionality. A discussion about taste and personal preferences can only lead to a thread like this [insert funny comparison including twilight]- First AD EU Group to finish DSA VET -
AD Altmer V16 Templar Alliance Rank 30 - EU - DSA Conqueror (pre-nerf) flawless vMSA
AD Argonian V16 Dragonknight Alliance Rank 15
AD Bosmer V16 Nightblade Alliance Rank 16
AD Kahjiit V16 Sorcerer Alliance Rank 10
AD Dunmer V16 Dragonknight Alliance Rank 9
AD Altmer V16 Templar Alliance Rank 10 - flawless vMSA
DC Altmer V16 Sorcerer Alliance Rank 9 - flawless vMSA
AD Breton V16 Templar Alliance Rank 10
AD Altmer V16 Sorceress Alliance Rank 21
AD Kahjiit Warden
AD Altmer Nightblade2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »Has no one mentioned Babette or Alva from Skyrim? They're not pureblooded, but hid their appearance pretty well. Sybille Stentor did too, unless you installed Dawnguard.
Oh you mean THIS non-special, never been kissed by Molag Bal vampire?
And this one?
And this one?
And, what the heck, let's throw in Laelette while we're at it:
But gosh...they don't look completely freakish and hideous! Let's not bring THEM up! /sarcasm Besides, that might actually put the LIE to all those folks who keep ceaselessly claiming that all vampires in previous TES games are obvious and ugly. And we wouldn't want THAT, now would we?
Edited by MornaBaine on October 29, 2014 11:41AMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭You keep saying a large majority want what you want. However I do not want this change which will affect my satisfaction with the game. I see a large portion of the population on this forum as against this as well. So what you keep arguing for is selfish on your part. This affects your satisfaction with the game. Your words. This change you keep begging for will affect my satisfaction. So what is ZOS to do? Make their own minds up knowing that people are going to be unhappy. Just like every change or no change in every mmo. Your arguments are getting tiring.5 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »You keep saying a large majority want what you want. However I do not want this change which will affect my satisfaction with the game. I see a large portion of the population on this forum as against this as well. So what you keep arguing for is selfish on your part. This affects your satisfaction with the game. Your words. This change you keep begging for will affect my satisfaction. So what is ZOS to do? Make their own minds up knowing that people are going to be unhappy. Just like every change or no change in every mmo. Your arguments are getting tiring.
As is your rudeness. However, I have already explained that I speak for a lot of people who will not post in these forums under any circumstances... primarily because of people like you. A lot of people just aren't willing to be under ceaseless attack and trolling. In the end they finally unsub because they feel they are never heard and nothing they really care about is ever addressed in the game. I don't see myself as a champion of those folks and I do wish they'd step up despite the slings and arrows. I'm merely telling you they exist, and why you don't see them. I just hope ZoS is smart enough to figure it out. I also DON'T say it's a majority of players...I say it's a large number. It may still be a minority of the playerbase. But here's the thing, never once have I advocated DOING AWAY with the looks of the various stages, ESPECIALLY the latter two. Let me go all Obama on you and say this: If you LIKE your hideous Stage 4 look, you can keep it! All -I- (and yes, many others) want are more realistic (and in accordance with earlier ES games player vampires) looks for the earlier stages, or, at a minimum, a much longer lasting current Stage 1. Neither of those things will keep you from reaching Stages 3 and 4 if those are indeed your preference. In fact, Satge 4 will pretty much remain the "default" stage as, to achieve it, you don't actually have to DO anything.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!4 -
Thrymbauld✭✭✭That isn't what this poll states at all. It says nothing about keeping later stages. It says nothing about a general dissatisfaction with a game mechanic(not appearance itself, mind, stage 1 length is a mechanic).
Everything full circle to where it is now. Now the raging debate isn't about hiding anything, per EVERY SINGLE POLL CHOICE, but rather a decided crusade to either change the models or change the mechanics.
I see nothing at all wrong with making the stages longer---if that'd been a poll offering, I might have actually been able to participate. Having to feed every half hour to maintain a particular stage is a decidedly clunky mechanic that presents itself far too quickly. It's a much better starting point.
As far as ugly models go......good luck, and I mean that seriously. There's nothing wrong with wanting them, but expecting a genuine retexture before a full expansion with graphic updates is a long shot at best.
3 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thrymbauld wrote: »That isn't what this poll states at all. It says nothing about keeping later stages. It says nothing about a general dissatisfaction with a game mechanic(not appearance itself, mind, stage 1 length is a mechanic).
Everything full circle to where it is now. Now the raging debate isn't about hiding anything, per EVERY SINGLE POLL CHOICE, but rather a decided crusade to either change the models or change the mechanics.
I see nothing at all wrong with making the stages longer---if that'd been a poll offering, I might have actually been able to participate. Having to feed every half hour to maintain a particular stage is a decidedly clunky mechanic that presents itself far too quickly. It's a much better starting point.
As far as ugly models go......good luck, and I mean that seriously. There's nothing wrong with wanting them, but expecting a genuine retexture before a full expansion with graphic updates is a long shot at best.
This particular poll only deals with ONE aspect of vampirism. I did do another poll to address the Stages mechanics. In their infinite wisdom, some forum wizard moved it to World Skills to die.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
Morduil✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »But most of those people won't set foot in these forums because of the unbelievable rudeness and abuse they encounter when they do dare to do so.MornaBaine wrote: »As is your rudeness. However, I have already explained that I speak for a lot of people who will not post in these forums under any circumstances... primarily because of people like you. A lot of people just aren't willing to be under ceaseless attack and trolling.
swords can cut both ways....MornaBaine wrote: »The title I gave the post perfectly describes the question. If people are a) too lazy or b) too stupid to comprehend basic English there is really nothing I can do about that. It is their problem, not mine. People who do not READ polls have no business answering them in the first place.4 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.
We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.
because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.
I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.
Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.
So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.
Extending the stages is a great idea, one I hope comes in to play since the speed they go by makes the short day/night cycle seem jarring. We'll have to agree to disagree on the visual revision though. I like that all vampires have these curse seeping out, and I look forward to the day when NPCs notice as well. I just don't think the player should be allowed to escape the consequences of an optional skill line - especially when said consequences are the vast norm lorewise.
But the visuals in ESO are FAR more jarring than in, say, Skyrim. Toning it down, but not doing away with it, and extending the time (by a LOT!) for the Stages would pretty much be a very acceptable "fix" for me.
For instance, here is my character in Stage 1
Now contrast that with Serana:
As you can see, the skin is not nearly so extreme and the overall appearance, while clearly not "normal" is far more subtle. THAT is what I am aiming for as a Stage 1. What do you think?
Oh, editing to add: Vampires should be able to wear lipstick! BECAUSE their lips are so pale! LOL
We're also talking about an important NPC that not only has a special bloodline, special age, and special ties to the elder scroll - but is mechanically supposed to appeal to the players humanity and was purposely designed to look less monstrous than, say, random pale vampire in whatever cave the quest system sent the player to.
Edit: I wholly agree with the makeup though. We need a beautician in game that will let us edit hair, makeup, scars, face paint, etc.
But MY point is...she EXISTS! She shows us that there is the POSSIBILITY of vampires looking less than completely monstrous. Is she a special snowflake? Sure, and for all the reasons you describe. But there's just really no good reason to say that because of this players can NEVER hope to achieve something similar.
But that is why we shouldn't achieve it. It diminishes her and other forefront characters. Its jarring seeing a fairly attractive (for skyrim) woman appear in the quest as she did, and even more surprising how easily her vampirism is forgotten and ignored because she's uniquely unlike all the Vampires we see up to that point in the game, right down to her appearance.
Its the same reason we won't ever have thuum even though regular nords were capable of learning it. ZOS has opened up the possibility for multiple lore reasons and multiple gameplay reasons why we aren't able to, and I really hope they stick to it. We're cursed, there should be no sugar coating of it, especially since it's 110% optional.
In the previous games no one recognized you as a vampire until Stage 4. Why? Because you frankly didn't look all that bad. You sure as Hades didn't look anywhere near as freakish as this game makes Stages 3 and 4. And the Stages actually lasted a realistic amount of time. If the only thing they did was tone down Stage 1 and 2 and make Stage 1 last a full 6 hours (since that's how long game days are) and Stage 2 last for 3 hours I'd be perfectly content. ESO vampires DON'T look anything like the playable vamps in the previous games. And as it is completely illogical to accept the premise that 1. a strain of vampirism that requires you to continuously feed, SEVERAL times a day, AND 2. makes you look freakishly monstrous and obviously inhuman is going to become COMMON rather than easily being quickly hunted to extinction, it needs to be changed. There is no reason to quietly accept bad design "because lore." This type of vampire really does not fit with previous lore and is no more acceptable because it's been around in its terrible state since launch. That would be exactly like saying they could not make the upcoming rather radical improvements to werewolves because it's already "lore" that they be exactly the way they are. Changes to ANY class or skill can and should be done as the game evolves.
You not liking something != bad design. Like it or not, this is the lore with vampirism and specifically this strain of vampirism. You look normal but pale stage 1, and you look like death incarnate stage 4 with degrees inbetween. That's how it is. It's how I hope it'll stay.
As to the other pictures, clearly more pale than serena. Laelette is more pale than us even with the less earth-toned palette of ESO. I'm seeing less of a problem with our skin tone now than before when I was on the fence.1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.
We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.
because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.
I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.
Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.
So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.
Extending the stages is a great idea, one I hope comes in to play since the speed they go by makes the short day/night cycle seem jarring. We'll have to agree to disagree on the visual revision though. I like that all vampires have these curse seeping out, and I look forward to the day when NPCs notice as well. I just don't think the player should be allowed to escape the consequences of an optional skill line - especially when said consequences are the vast norm lorewise.
But the visuals in ESO are FAR more jarring than in, say, Skyrim. Toning it down, but not doing away with it, and extending the time (by a LOT!) for the Stages would pretty much be a very acceptable "fix" for me.
For instance, here is my character in Stage 1
Now contrast that with Serana:
As you can see, the skin is not nearly so extreme and the overall appearance, while clearly not "normal" is far more subtle. THAT is what I am aiming for as a Stage 1. What do you think?
Oh, editing to add: Vampires should be able to wear lipstick! BECAUSE their lips are so pale! LOL
We're also talking about an important NPC that not only has a special bloodline, special age, and special ties to the elder scroll - but is mechanically supposed to appeal to the players humanity and was purposely designed to look less monstrous than, say, random pale vampire in whatever cave the quest system sent the player to.
Edit: I wholly agree with the makeup though. We need a beautician in game that will let us edit hair, makeup, scars, face paint, etc.
But MY point is...she EXISTS! She shows us that there is the POSSIBILITY of vampires looking less than completely monstrous. Is she a special snowflake? Sure, and for all the reasons you describe. But there's just really no good reason to say that because of this players can NEVER hope to achieve something similar.
But that is why we shouldn't achieve it. It diminishes her and other forefront characters. Its jarring seeing a fairly attractive (for skyrim) woman appear in the quest as she did, and even more surprising how easily her vampirism is forgotten and ignored because she's uniquely unlike all the Vampires we see up to that point in the game, right down to her appearance.
Its the same reason we won't ever have thuum even though regular nords were capable of learning it. ZOS has opened up the possibility for multiple lore reasons and multiple gameplay reasons why we aren't able to, and I really hope they stick to it. We're cursed, there should be no sugar coating of it, especially since it's 110% optional.
In the previous games no one recognized you as a vampire until Stage 4. Why? Because you frankly didn't look all that bad. You sure as Hades didn't look anywhere near as freakish as this game makes Stages 3 and 4. And the Stages actually lasted a realistic amount of time. If the only thing they did was tone down Stage 1 and 2 and make Stage 1 last a full 6 hours (since that's how long game days are) and Stage 2 last for 3 hours I'd be perfectly content. ESO vampires DON'T look anything like the playable vamps in the previous games. And as it is completely illogical to accept the premise that 1. a strain of vampirism that requires you to continuously feed, SEVERAL times a day, AND 2. makes you look freakishly monstrous and obviously inhuman is going to become COMMON rather than easily being quickly hunted to extinction, it needs to be changed. There is no reason to quietly accept bad design "because lore." This type of vampire really does not fit with previous lore and is no more acceptable because it's been around in its terrible state since launch. That would be exactly like saying they could not make the upcoming rather radical improvements to werewolves because it's already "lore" that they be exactly the way they are. Changes to ANY class or skill can and should be done as the game evolves.
You not liking something != bad design. Like it or not, this is the lore with vampirism and specifically this strain of vampirism. You look normal but pale stage 1, and you look like death incarnate stage 4 with degrees inbetween. That's how it is. It's how I hope it'll stay.
As to the other pictures, clearly more pale than serena. Laelette is more pale than us even with the less earth-toned palette of ESO. I'm seeing less of a problem with our skin tone now than before when I was on the fence.
No, bad design=bad design. This will become MORE apparent when guards start "reacting" to Stage 4 and people finally realize that the Stages themselves move FAR too quickly. And please, as I've already pointed out, lore can EASILY be argued for both side AND it's just not a really legit argument in the first place. What makes NS strain of vampirism "lore" for this game? Because that's what ZoS made up at the last minute and shoehorned into the game without giving it much thought. If they change it, THAT becomes the NEW lore. Just as if they add new skills to existing classes or outright new skill lines entirely THAT becomes lore. "Lore" is not, by any means, set in stone.
And the point of the pics isn't necessarily that they look like normal people (though at least one of them does) but that it clearly shows vamps in previous games looked NOTHING like ESO vampires, not only at Stage 1 but especially at the other stages, which are totally over the top. Again, I'm fine with KEEPING those stage appearances...but we need more flexibility and control over how our individual vampires look as players.Edited by MornaBaine on October 29, 2014 1:23PMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.
We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.
because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.
I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.
Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.
So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.
Extending the stages is a great idea, one I hope comes in to play since the speed they go by makes the short day/night cycle seem jarring. We'll have to agree to disagree on the visual revision though. I like that all vampires have these curse seeping out, and I look forward to the day when NPCs notice as well. I just don't think the player should be allowed to escape the consequences of an optional skill line - especially when said consequences are the vast norm lorewise.
But the visuals in ESO are FAR more jarring than in, say, Skyrim. Toning it down, but not doing away with it, and extending the time (by a LOT!) for the Stages would pretty much be a very acceptable "fix" for me.
For instance, here is my character in Stage 1
Now contrast that with Serana:
As you can see, the skin is not nearly so extreme and the overall appearance, while clearly not "normal" is far more subtle. THAT is what I am aiming for as a Stage 1. What do you think?
Oh, editing to add: Vampires should be able to wear lipstick! BECAUSE their lips are so pale! LOL
We're also talking about an important NPC that not only has a special bloodline, special age, and special ties to the elder scroll - but is mechanically supposed to appeal to the players humanity and was purposely designed to look less monstrous than, say, random pale vampire in whatever cave the quest system sent the player to.
Edit: I wholly agree with the makeup though. We need a beautician in game that will let us edit hair, makeup, scars, face paint, etc.
But MY point is...she EXISTS! She shows us that there is the POSSIBILITY of vampires looking less than completely monstrous. Is she a special snowflake? Sure, and for all the reasons you describe. But there's just really no good reason to say that because of this players can NEVER hope to achieve something similar.
But that is why we shouldn't achieve it. It diminishes her and other forefront characters. Its jarring seeing a fairly attractive (for skyrim) woman appear in the quest as she did, and even more surprising how easily her vampirism is forgotten and ignored because she's uniquely unlike all the Vampires we see up to that point in the game, right down to her appearance.
Its the same reason we won't ever have thuum even though regular nords were capable of learning it. ZOS has opened up the possibility for multiple lore reasons and multiple gameplay reasons why we aren't able to, and I really hope they stick to it. We're cursed, there should be no sugar coating of it, especially since it's 110% optional.
In the previous games no one recognized you as a vampire until Stage 4. Why? Because you frankly didn't look all that bad. You sure as Hades didn't look anywhere near as freakish as this game makes Stages 3 and 4. And the Stages actually lasted a realistic amount of time. If the only thing they did was tone down Stage 1 and 2 and make Stage 1 last a full 6 hours (since that's how long game days are) and Stage 2 last for 3 hours I'd be perfectly content. ESO vampires DON'T look anything like the playable vamps in the previous games. And as it is completely illogical to accept the premise that 1. a strain of vampirism that requires you to continuously feed, SEVERAL times a day, AND 2. makes you look freakishly monstrous and obviously inhuman is going to become COMMON rather than easily being quickly hunted to extinction, it needs to be changed. There is no reason to quietly accept bad design "because lore." This type of vampire really does not fit with previous lore and is no more acceptable because it's been around in its terrible state since launch. That would be exactly like saying they could not make the upcoming rather radical improvements to werewolves because it's already "lore" that they be exactly the way they are. Changes to ANY class or skill can and should be done as the game evolves.
You not liking something != bad design. Like it or not, this is the lore with vampirism and specifically this strain of vampirism. You look normal but pale stage 1, and you look like death incarnate stage 4 with degrees inbetween. That's how it is. It's how I hope it'll stay.
As to the other pictures, clearly more pale than serena. Laelette is more pale than us even with the less earth-toned palette of ESO. I'm seeing less of a problem with our skin tone now than before when I was on the fence.
No, bad design=bad design. This will become MORE apparent when guards start "reacting" to Stage 4 and people finally realize that the Stages themselves move FAR too quickly. And please, as I've already pointed out, lore can EASILY be argued for both side AND it's just not a really legit argument in the first place. What makes NS strain of vampirism "lore" for this game? Because that's what ZoS made up at the last minute and shoehorned into the game without giving it much thought. If they change it, THAT becomes the NEW lore. Just as if they add new skills to existing classes or outright new skill lines entirely THAT becomes lore. "Lore" is not, by any means, set in stone.
And the point of the pics isn't necessarily that they look like normal people (though at least one of them does) but that it clearly shows vamps in previous games looked NOTHING like ESO vampires, not only at Stage 1 but especially at the other stages, which are totally over the top. Again, I'm fine with KEEPING those stage appearances...but we need more flexibility and control over how our individual vampires look as players.
Luckily, the visual representation of vampires isn't bad design. Should the progression of the stages be looked at and balanced, absolutely. Balance issue also != bad design. But let's not pretend this is about stage changes, its clear from your post history that you want an untouched look for your vampire, which thankfully ZOS appears to be sticking to making the cursed look cursed.
I also absolutely agree lore is not set in stone. Every game has changed the lore set be a previous one. However, this is this games representation of it's specific strain, and the changes not only fit the lore but (this may be hard to swallow) is likely going to stay in the lore . Your dislike for it doesn't diminish it just like others disliking the plot doesn't diminish it.
Lastly, I agree we (not just vampires) need better control over how characters look post creation. A barber that lets us change makeup, hair, etc is needed. That however isn't a vampire specific issue.3 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.
We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.
because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.
I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.
Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.
So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.
Extending the stages is a great idea, one I hope comes in to play since the speed they go by makes the short day/night cycle seem jarring. We'll have to agree to disagree on the visual revision though. I like that all vampires have these curse seeping out, and I look forward to the day when NPCs notice as well. I just don't think the player should be allowed to escape the consequences of an optional skill line - especially when said consequences are the vast norm lorewise.
But the visuals in ESO are FAR more jarring than in, say, Skyrim. Toning it down, but not doing away with it, and extending the time (by a LOT!) for the Stages would pretty much be a very acceptable "fix" for me.
For instance, here is my character in Stage 1
Now contrast that with Serana:
As you can see, the skin is not nearly so extreme and the overall appearance, while clearly not "normal" is far more subtle. THAT is what I am aiming for as a Stage 1. What do you think?
Oh, editing to add: Vampires should be able to wear lipstick! BECAUSE their lips are so pale! LOL
We're also talking about an important NPC that not only has a special bloodline, special age, and special ties to the elder scroll - but is mechanically supposed to appeal to the players humanity and was purposely designed to look less monstrous than, say, random pale vampire in whatever cave the quest system sent the player to.
Edit: I wholly agree with the makeup though. We need a beautician in game that will let us edit hair, makeup, scars, face paint, etc.
But MY point is...she EXISTS! She shows us that there is the POSSIBILITY of vampires looking less than completely monstrous. Is she a special snowflake? Sure, and for all the reasons you describe. But there's just really no good reason to say that because of this players can NEVER hope to achieve something similar.
But that is why we shouldn't achieve it. It diminishes her and other forefront characters. Its jarring seeing a fairly attractive (for skyrim) woman appear in the quest as she did, and even more surprising how easily her vampirism is forgotten and ignored because she's uniquely unlike all the Vampires we see up to that point in the game, right down to her appearance.
Its the same reason we won't ever have thuum even though regular nords were capable of learning it. ZOS has opened up the possibility for multiple lore reasons and multiple gameplay reasons why we aren't able to, and I really hope they stick to it. We're cursed, there should be no sugar coating of it, especially since it's 110% optional.
In the previous games no one recognized you as a vampire until Stage 4. Why? Because you frankly didn't look all that bad. You sure as Hades didn't look anywhere near as freakish as this game makes Stages 3 and 4. And the Stages actually lasted a realistic amount of time. If the only thing they did was tone down Stage 1 and 2 and make Stage 1 last a full 6 hours (since that's how long game days are) and Stage 2 last for 3 hours I'd be perfectly content. ESO vampires DON'T look anything like the playable vamps in the previous games. And as it is completely illogical to accept the premise that 1. a strain of vampirism that requires you to continuously feed, SEVERAL times a day, AND 2. makes you look freakishly monstrous and obviously inhuman is going to become COMMON rather than easily being quickly hunted to extinction, it needs to be changed. There is no reason to quietly accept bad design "because lore." This type of vampire really does not fit with previous lore and is no more acceptable because it's been around in its terrible state since launch. That would be exactly like saying they could not make the upcoming rather radical improvements to werewolves because it's already "lore" that they be exactly the way they are. Changes to ANY class or skill can and should be done as the game evolves.
You not liking something != bad design. Like it or not, this is the lore with vampirism and specifically this strain of vampirism. You look normal but pale stage 1, and you look like death incarnate stage 4 with degrees inbetween. That's how it is. It's how I hope it'll stay.
As to the other pictures, clearly more pale than serena. Laelette is more pale than us even with the less earth-toned palette of ESO. I'm seeing less of a problem with our skin tone now than before when I was on the fence.
No, bad design=bad design. This will become MORE apparent when guards start "reacting" to Stage 4 and people finally realize that the Stages themselves move FAR too quickly. And please, as I've already pointed out, lore can EASILY be argued for both side AND it's just not a really legit argument in the first place. What makes NS strain of vampirism "lore" for this game? Because that's what ZoS made up at the last minute and shoehorned into the game without giving it much thought. If they change it, THAT becomes the NEW lore. Just as if they add new skills to existing classes or outright new skill lines entirely THAT becomes lore. "Lore" is not, by any means, set in stone.
And the point of the pics isn't necessarily that they look like normal people (though at least one of them does) but that it clearly shows vamps in previous games looked NOTHING like ESO vampires, not only at Stage 1 but especially at the other stages, which are totally over the top. Again, I'm fine with KEEPING those stage appearances...but we need more flexibility and control over how our individual vampires look as players.
Luckily, the visual representation of vampires isn't bad design. Should the progression of the stages be looked at and balanced, absolutely. Balance issue also != bad design. But let's not pretend this is about stage changes, its clear from your post history that you want an untouched look for your vampire, which thankfully ZOS appears to be sticking to making the cursed look cursed.
Not "untouched" but certainly more subtle. Because it should NOT be immediately apparent from a distance that your character is a vampire. IF that were indeed the case then there would simply BE no vampires because they would have been swiftly hunted to extinction long ago. Do I LIKE the hideous look you get far too soon? Nope, not gonna lie. I also think it's unnecessary. But it can stay...with some reasonable ability on the part of the player to control what stage they are in. Right now that is virtually impossible and is part of the problem. I happen to think Stage 1 IS really pretty. Still want it dialed back because it just doesn't make sense. It's completely at odds with basic survival. Failing that, I DO want an illusion/disguise/spell/potion/hoeverthehadestheydecidetoimplementit because it constantly breaks my freakin immersion to be walking around OBVIOUSLY UNDEAD and every single player yakks about it and every single NPC is completely oblivious to it. NEITHER makes a lot of sense from any kind of rational standpoint. I know you'll find this hard to believe, but my biggest objection isn't because I want to "look pretty" (sure, I do, worked hard to make my character attractive in the first place) but because it SIMPLY DOES NOT MAKE ANY SORT OF SENSE FOR VAMPIRES TO LOOK THE WAY THEY DO.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!3 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.
We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.
because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.
I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.
Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.
So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.
Extending the stages is a great idea, one I hope comes in to play since the speed they go by makes the short day/night cycle seem jarring. We'll have to agree to disagree on the visual revision though. I like that all vampires have these curse seeping out, and I look forward to the day when NPCs notice as well. I just don't think the player should be allowed to escape the consequences of an optional skill line - especially when said consequences are the vast norm lorewise.
But the visuals in ESO are FAR more jarring than in, say, Skyrim. Toning it down, but not doing away with it, and extending the time (by a LOT!) for the Stages would pretty much be a very acceptable "fix" for me.
For instance, here is my character in Stage 1
Now contrast that with Serana:
As you can see, the skin is not nearly so extreme and the overall appearance, while clearly not "normal" is far more subtle. THAT is what I am aiming for as a Stage 1. What do you think?
Oh, editing to add: Vampires should be able to wear lipstick! BECAUSE their lips are so pale! LOL
We're also talking about an important NPC that not only has a special bloodline, special age, and special ties to the elder scroll - but is mechanically supposed to appeal to the players humanity and was purposely designed to look less monstrous than, say, random pale vampire in whatever cave the quest system sent the player to.
Edit: I wholly agree with the makeup though. We need a beautician in game that will let us edit hair, makeup, scars, face paint, etc.
But MY point is...she EXISTS! She shows us that there is the POSSIBILITY of vampires looking less than completely monstrous. Is she a special snowflake? Sure, and for all the reasons you describe. But there's just really no good reason to say that because of this players can NEVER hope to achieve something similar.
But that is why we shouldn't achieve it. It diminishes her and other forefront characters. Its jarring seeing a fairly attractive (for skyrim) woman appear in the quest as she did, and even more surprising how easily her vampirism is forgotten and ignored because she's uniquely unlike all the Vampires we see up to that point in the game, right down to her appearance.
Its the same reason we won't ever have thuum even though regular nords were capable of learning it. ZOS has opened up the possibility for multiple lore reasons and multiple gameplay reasons why we aren't able to, and I really hope they stick to it. We're cursed, there should be no sugar coating of it, especially since it's 110% optional.
In the previous games no one recognized you as a vampire until Stage 4. Why? Because you frankly didn't look all that bad. You sure as Hades didn't look anywhere near as freakish as this game makes Stages 3 and 4. And the Stages actually lasted a realistic amount of time. If the only thing they did was tone down Stage 1 and 2 and make Stage 1 last a full 6 hours (since that's how long game days are) and Stage 2 last for 3 hours I'd be perfectly content. ESO vampires DON'T look anything like the playable vamps in the previous games. And as it is completely illogical to accept the premise that 1. a strain of vampirism that requires you to continuously feed, SEVERAL times a day, AND 2. makes you look freakishly monstrous and obviously inhuman is going to become COMMON rather than easily being quickly hunted to extinction, it needs to be changed. There is no reason to quietly accept bad design "because lore." This type of vampire really does not fit with previous lore and is no more acceptable because it's been around in its terrible state since launch. That would be exactly like saying they could not make the upcoming rather radical improvements to werewolves because it's already "lore" that they be exactly the way they are. Changes to ANY class or skill can and should be done as the game evolves.
You not liking something != bad design. Like it or not, this is the lore with vampirism and specifically this strain of vampirism. You look normal but pale stage 1, and you look like death incarnate stage 4 with degrees inbetween. That's how it is. It's how I hope it'll stay.
As to the other pictures, clearly more pale than serena. Laelette is more pale than us even with the less earth-toned palette of ESO. I'm seeing less of a problem with our skin tone now than before when I was on the fence.
No, bad design=bad design. This will become MORE apparent when guards start "reacting" to Stage 4 and people finally realize that the Stages themselves move FAR too quickly. And please, as I've already pointed out, lore can EASILY be argued for both side AND it's just not a really legit argument in the first place. What makes NS strain of vampirism "lore" for this game? Because that's what ZoS made up at the last minute and shoehorned into the game without giving it much thought. If they change it, THAT becomes the NEW lore. Just as if they add new skills to existing classes or outright new skill lines entirely THAT becomes lore. "Lore" is not, by any means, set in stone.
And the point of the pics isn't necessarily that they look like normal people (though at least one of them does) but that it clearly shows vamps in previous games looked NOTHING like ESO vampires, not only at Stage 1 but especially at the other stages, which are totally over the top. Again, I'm fine with KEEPING those stage appearances...but we need more flexibility and control over how our individual vampires look as players.
Luckily, the visual representation of vampires isn't bad design. Should the progression of the stages be looked at and balanced, absolutely. Balance issue also != bad design. But let's not pretend this is about stage changes, its clear from your post history that you want an untouched look for your vampire, which thankfully ZOS appears to be sticking to making the cursed look cursed.
Not "untouched" but certainly more subtle. Because it should NOT be immediately apparent from a distance that your character is a vampire. IF that were indeed the case then there would simply BE no vampires because they would have been swiftly hunted to extinction long ago. Do I LIKE the hideous look you get far too soon? Nope, not gonna lie. I also think it's unnecessary. But it can stay...with some reasonable ability on the part of the player to control what stage they are in. Right now that is virtually impossible and is part of the problem. I happen to think Stage 1 IS really pretty. Still want it dialed back because it just doesn't make sense. It's completely at odds with basic survival. Failing that, I DO want an illusion/disguise/spell/potion/hoeverthehadestheydecidetoimplementit because it constantly breaks my freakin immersion to be walking around OBVIOUSLY UNDEAD and every single player yakks about it and every single NPC is completely oblivious to it. NEITHER makes a lot of sense from any kind of rational standpoint. I know you'll find this hard to believe, but my biggest objection isn't because I want to "look pretty" (sure, I do, worked hard to make my character attractive in the first place) but because it SIMPLY DOES NOT MAKE ANY SORT OF SENSE FOR VAMPIRES TO LOOK THE WAY THEY DO.
Whether or not it makes sense, like I said posts ago, we will simply have to agree to disagree. I mean, we're a strain of vampirism that has no specific aversion to sunlight, things are bound to be "the same but different". So, at this point , that's just a "quality of the curse".
Maybe someday we'll be able to be turned by Pophyric Hemophilia or Sanguinare Vampiris and display characteristics from those. Maybe the lack of ability to hide is the reason we don't encounter Noxiphilic Sanguivoria after the second era when it is clearly wide spread across all of Tamriel.
Maybe I'm just rationalizing the gameplay features associated with ESO with how they effect my character. Either way I hope it's here to stay, I appreciate how ESO broadens the lore and creates actual consequences - both mechanically and cosmetically - for our actions. If it ruffles the feathers of people ... good, it should. Games should do more IMO to make players question their choices when we have actual choices. More choices like vampirism, and ...the mages guild finale
... need to be present. Luckily (for those who don't stand by their character choices), if anybody is ever turned off from vampirism they can quickly take back their choice and stop it all.
I supremely dislike the notion of "I want something so change what I don't like about it" when it it interferes with what others appreciate about it. Either you're a vampire or not.3 -
Hamfast✭✭✭✭✭First, on Lore, ESO takes place hundreds of years before the lore that is being used, in other words, the lore being referred to may not yet have been established.
Second, Lore is based on historical traditions, many times by word of mouth and the observations of others long dead. Look at the world we live in (also known as the real world) and the number of people that believe things that either can't be proven or can be proven false, yet they swear to it as true.
Third, If lore is as fluid as it seems, there can be several different types of "Vampire", we, the player based vampires are obviously different then some of the NPC vampires. We go through the small quest and become a child of Lamae Beolfag, also known as Lamae Bal or the "Blood-Matron" we are protected from the damage of the sun, we can't be turned by a symbol of faith, we do not turn into mindless blood fiends.
In other words, the current vampirism dynamics can be changed and tweaked without issue, the lore is simply how it was remembered, and I am willing to bet I am not the only one suffering from CRS... (Can't Remember Sh...Stuff)Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...3 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭I say that it should be a passive ability, but at the same time it only works during a certain period of the day or after doing something. You shouldn't just be able to hide it, you should have to "learn" through an attribute point or something to that effect how to hide it. Once you learn that skill though, you're only able to hide it under certain circumstances (ie. Only when it is night time, such as the Dracula myth where he only has power in the dark). From the original vampire myths, meaning Dracula, they have the power to look extremely human after feeding, and not only human but sexually appealing, and as time goes on since feeding, they would become more and more repulsive until there was nothing human left about them. So it would make sense that after a person fed they would be able to look human again, and that was the vampires choice, they could remain a monster or look human and attractive, whichever they preferred. That's my take on this.
Also, I'm not a vampire in ESO... never have been and don't really care to be, so I'm not sure exactly what can be done as one... but I think if you are a vampire and you kill an enemy there should be an interaction choice to feed. This plays a small animation of you bending down and sticking your head in the corpse... nothing really to complicated for them. Your powers would then diminish depending on how long it has been since you fed. I think it would be a more immersive way to show vampirism, but what do I know... I'm just a nerd who likes gaming lolEdited by diabeticDemon18 on October 29, 2014 4:13PM1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Whether or not it makes sense, like I said posts ago, we will simply have to agree to disagree. I mean, we're a strain of vampirism that has no specific aversion to sunlight, things are bound to be "the same but different". So, at this point , that's just a "quality of the curse". [/quote]
But it has absolutely nothing to do with balance or mechanics. It was just an arbitrary artistic choice and as such, like anything else you might not like about a class or skill line, should be open to change. And things that make absolutely no sense REALLY need to be open to change.
Maybe someday we'll be able to be turned by Pophyric Hemophilia or Sanguinare Vampiris and display characteristics from those. Maybe the lack of ability to hide is the reason we don't encounter Noxiphilic Sanguivoria after the second era when it is clearly wide spread across all of Tamriel.
I REALLY hope this sort of thing is in the future of the game. If they'd even just tell me it's in the works I'd pretty much be satisfied.
Maybe I'm just rationalizing the gameplay features associated with ESO with how they effect my character. Either way I hope it's here to stay, I appreciate how ESO broadens the lore and creates actual consequences - both mechanically and cosmetically - for our actions. If it ruffles the feathers of people ... good, it should. Games should do more IMO to make players question their choices when we have actual choices. More choices like vampirism, and ...the mages guild finale
... need to be present. Luckily (for those who don't stand by their character choices), if anybody is ever turned off from vampirism they can quickly take back their choice and stop it all.
I think you are in fact rationalizing every bit as much as you have accused me of doing so. You like it, so you want it to stay. I DON'T like it, so I want it to change. But the big difference here is that -I- want it to change in such a way so that YOU can still have what YOU want as well, access to your precious "monstrous" stages. Whereas you don't actually care about what anyone else wants and are happy to tell people to just suffer rather than advocate for more flexibility, believeabilty, and overall satisfaction and fun.I supremely dislike the notion of "I want something so change what I don't like about it" when it it interferes with what others appreciate about it. Either you're a vampire or not.
I supremely dislike it when people have the notion that no matter what accommodations are made to make them happy, they are still adamant that it's perfectly fine for others to be unhappy. And no, what you are REALLY saying is, "You are either willing to accept ESO's version of vampires without ever daring to advocate for change like you would TO ANY OTHER SKILL LINE or you just can't be a vampire." And that, Sir, is unacceptable.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!5
