chipputer wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Then you were not paying attention. Count Verandis Ravenwatch. 'Nuff said.

I recall him having a redness near his eyes that a normal character wouldn't. I picked him out as a vampire pretty much right away.

Regardless, one character having the ability to hide it for the sake of the story doesn't mean you have the ability to.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I'm right.

Actually, NO, you are not.





As you can see, Ravenwatch DOES look normal when you first meet him. No, he does not become a vampire at some later point in the quest. He is a vampire in the first picture, just as he is in the second. HE EVEN TELLS YOU HE "HIDES" HIS APPEARANCE AT THE INSISTENCE OF KING EMERIC.

chipputer wrote: »

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qH0DJF4MYxg/maxresdefault.jpg

His vampirism isn't hidden. He's just not as pale as someone who chose a paler skin color would have ended up being. The point is disproven and now moot. Thanks for playing. Come again.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

knock that "woe is me" nonsense off.

Don't trivialize someone else's legitimate opinions and complaints.

Uh, no. It's not a legitimate complaint so I'll trivialize it all I want, thanks. Vampires, in all ES games, have been pretty dang ugly. You just don't have the freedom to mod the MMO version of it. You knew what you were getting in to. You don't get to hide it.

So now that YOUR point is moot and you've been astonishingly rude WHILE BEING DEAD WRONG, I hope you can dig down and find it within yourself to become a decent human being in the future...instead of what you are right now.

whsprwind wrote: »

The whole issue of a vamp's appearance really has little to do with how OP a vamp is (or how people seem to believe how OP it is)

Stage 3 and 4 aren't really much stronger than stage 1 and 2, but they look way hideous.

I don't believe that the designer and developer thought "Oh vamps are gonna be so OP, yeah let's givem the mechanics but take away their looks to make up for it!"

It's probably poor appearance design, just like how they did the initial equipment before introducing dyes and some remodelling.

I believe most people don't even care how easily identifiable they are as vamps to their enemies, they just wanna look less ugly.

Bingo! *gives cookie* I honestly don't think Stage 1 looks ugly at all and it is somewhat akin to the way Serana looks.


Although in ESO both the skin and eyes are MUCH brighter. And in the initial stage as a player character in Stage 1, your character looks pretty much the same way....and STAYS THAT WAY FOR AN ENTIRE DAY. So this is really where the ire of a lot of us players comes from. Yet in ESO at least 2 vampires CAN look completely normal when they wish to. And saying "well that's because they are special and that's why YOU can't do it" just doesn't cut it. There's absolutely no LOGICAL reason such a thing CAN'T be made available to players in a lore-friendly manner. There just isn't. It's not a mechanics issue. It certainly isn't a balance issue. Anyone who says differently just dislikes vampires for whatever reason they may have.

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.

We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.

Thank you. I know I am sometimes guilty of rising to said bait. I'll...ummm... try to behave.

Seriously though, everyone has their pet thing in this game, generally a specific class or skill line they really focus on and bring information, suggestions or challenges to the forums regarding it. And that's a good thing. My "thing" is, rather obviously, vampires. Make of that whatever you will but basically I am just advocating for improvements to the skill line and, because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.

BBSooner wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.

We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.

because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.

I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.

Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.

So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.

MornaBaine wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.

We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.

because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.

I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.

Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.

So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.

Extending the stages is a great idea, one I hope comes in to play since the speed they go by makes the short day/night cycle seem jarring. We'll have to agree to disagree on the visual revision though. I like that all vampires have these curse seeping out, and I look forward to the day when NPCs notice as well. I just don't think the player should be allowed to escape the consequences of an optional skill line - especially when said consequences are the vast norm lorewise.

BBSooner wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.

We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.

because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.

I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.

Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.

So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.

Extending the stages is a great idea, one I hope comes in to play since the speed they go by makes the short day/night cycle seem jarring. We'll have to agree to disagree on the visual revision though. I like that all vampires have these curse seeping out, and I look forward to the day when NPCs notice as well. I just don't think the player should be allowed to escape the consequences of an optional skill line - especially when said consequences are the vast norm lorewise.

But the visuals in ESO are FAR more jarring than in, say, Skyrim. Toning it down, but not doing away with it, and extending the time (by a LOT!) for the Stages would pretty much be a very acceptable "fix" for me.

For instance, here is my character in Stage 1


Now contrast that with Serana:


As you can see, the skin is not nearly so extreme and the overall appearance, while clearly not "normal" is far more subtle. THAT is what I am aiming for as a Stage 1. What do you think?

Oh, editing to add: Vampires should be able to wear lipstick! BECAUSE their lips are so pale! LOL

Zorrashi wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

Vampires should not be able to hide so easily--at least, not at the later stages.

Things like appearance changes via illusion spell or blood consumption to the point that they are able to totally blend in with society no matter how late the stage, imo, should only be reserved for vampires who have either come from a more pure lineage or have gained more than a substantial amount of experience/skill at being a vampire (as demonstrated in a few TES games in the past). None of which should be attained by a player who gained vampirism from wandering blood fiend mongrels.

But I suppose if it HAD to be an option.....I would have it be an active skill. It has a massive cooldown unless you are a lower stage vampire, in which case the cooldown will be shorter. The shortest cool down should be around, say, a once-per-day limit for the stage 1 vamp, and a 1 week cool down for the Stage 4 vamps.

The spell could be interrupted by a few specific skills like mage light and the active skill can last as long as long as the entire time you spent logged in that day so long as it is slotted in the current ability bar, otherwise it would be cancelled and you wouldn't be able use it until the cool down is finished.

I agree with what you say regarding abilities bring reserved for vampires of great experience/ age or ofspecial bloodlines. However, IF we go with that, then they need to make this things available to players, even if at end game.

Then perhaps have the potential of discovery being exceedingly high for vampires with a low level in the vampire skill line, which gets lower as the vampire skill line lvls up in addition to taking into account the player's character level. Or even connect it to quests that involve some sort of vampiric artifact (sort of like the bloodstone chalice) that involves some sort of blood sacrifice. I would insist the quests be exceedingly difficult though.

I really like this idea. I have advocated all along for questlines for vampires. I just don't have any faith that ZoS will ever do them.

MornaBaine wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »

Hello, folks.
Some comments in this thread that have been getting a little baity and we would like to remind everyone that it is not constructive to attack or mock another community member for sharing their opinion. We would like to keep this thread open if the discussion can continue constructively and stay on topic.

We are actively reading all your feedback, and do encourage you to continue to share it with us. Your constructive feedback is valuable, and allows us to make improvements to our game and ensure a fun and rewarding experience for everyone. Thank you for your understanding.

because it is unique from all other skill lines in that it causes a physical constant appearance change, that is going to be a big part of what I look at here and discuss. It would be nice if other folks would be allowed to join me here and do the same.

I agree absolutely, I'm hopeful that remains intact as well. The forcible change provides the immediate connection with the dark pact the player has just made, and it's permanence reminds the player of the "power at a price" notion of the whole covenant. No matter how high the player rises, they are always doomed to have the darkness of their past seep out uncontrollably. Hopefully no content added will allow the escape from these characters past.

Hmmm... I am a little torn on the issue you raise. Part of me actually agrees with you. Part of me responds, "That's all well and good but is it necessary for me to look like a freaking zombie????" In my "perfect world" Stage 1 would be more subtle than it is now. Although at odds with previous TES games, I'd like my vampire to keep her original eye color but I'd be fine with the glowing bit. I'd like the brightness of the white skin dialed down a notch or two. I'd like her original makeup to be left intact. I want the difference to be there...I just want it to be more subtle. And I want it to last a whole lot longer than a mere half hour, which is a blink when you are playing this crazy addictive game! I DO think the Stages should remain, and progress, and actually have MEANINGFUL, NOTICEABLE effects upon mechanics. Stage 2 could actually look like the current Stage 1 and I think that would be awesome because I DO like that look. And this is the point where NPCs on the street should start telling you they don't like the hungry look in your eyes. Stage 3 could look like the current Stage 2, which is OBVIOUSLY non-human (non-mer) and merchants should start randomly refusing to deal with you and guards should start warning you to leave town. Stage 4 could look like either the current Stage 3 or Stage 4 (bonus if you get to somehow choose) because BOTH look truly monstrous and guards start kicking your behind without warning and NO merchants will deal with you. Except maybe for that shady vampire guy out in the woods in a cave somewhere.

So yeah, I think vampirism should mark you even though I also think with illusion you should be able to hide it entirely....until you make that fatal transition to Stage 4 (or even 3) and stand revealed once more for the monster you are.

First, the time in the early stages needs to be longer giving the vampire player longer to play if that play will be affected more at the later stages. Currently we have about 3 hours before we hit stage 4 and I can lose 3 hours in a session quite easily and often do. If that time is doubled or even tripled it would be better, perhaps a change in the pattern, spending more time at stage 1 or similar times in each stage... perhaps even change the time based on actions, like the feeding is filling your vampiric energy pool, use of your vampire powers depletes that pool faster and will cause you... or us, to go from stage to stage faster.

Appearance is one of the points I disagree with you ( @MornaBaine ) on, I think Stage 1 should look as close to your "Pre-Vampire" state as it can, Stage 2 and 3 should be worse and stage 4 should be obvious and hideous. Where your progression seems to make Stage 4 less pronounced, I would have it be more pronounced.

While I don't know if ZOS could code merchants to treat stage 3 and 4 vampires differently, I do like the idea, that at least some cases merchants and NPC's will treat us differently if we are in stage 3 and refuse us in some way at stage 4, perhaps calling the guards to run us out of town, on the other hand, like the people who want to marry criminals on death row or doing life without parole, some merchants could react the other way. There should also be some cities that are more tolerant, like Rivenspire, that has had Vampire help in the past.

If the idea of a "Passive" skill is implemented, it could delay the stages further, allowing more time in each stage.

I honestly would just like my original ice blue eyes back. I'm not a fan of the red eyes. Other than that, I'm okay with the look. I get that vamps need to be detectable for pvp, but I miss my old eye. Wishful thinking I'm sure...

Audigy wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I've lost track of how many threads the OP has started on this same subject. In addition to his not wanting to look like a Vamp, he also wants the stages gimped as well.

There's actually a very simple solution... Don't like it as it is? Don't become one. Stop campaigning to make becoming a Vamp a trivial decision.

Don't like that your class is unbalanced or broken? Stop complaining! Play another class! See how that works?

So now your class / race is broken because its not visually attractive to your eye?No offence but are you really trying to put this as an argument now since all the others were rejected?

Seriously, if you don't like how a Vampire looks like why even play one? It seems like you don't even want to identify yourself with that role, you want something pretty and cute and hey this isn't what a vampire is.

This is typically the MO. Persons wanting pretty vampires eject all reasonable response because it doesn't affirm them. Attack those that don't subscribe to that point of view, but typically attack the peripheral matter and not the substance. Then re-Asshurt the position/opinion.... rinse repeat.

Edited for clarity as it appears my intent was misunderstood.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

The only part that concerns me is that with the justice system I feel that stage 1 should be undetectable even by other players and should last longer than 30 minutes along with more options to feed. I feel like that would be in line with other TES games. Also they should remove vampirism and lycanthropy as buffs since it's way too easy for other players to pick you out with those stats.

Totally agree with this. The 30 minute feeding time or time between phases will become punitive. It should be several hours at the least up to 24 hours.

OR

There should be a place for vampires and WW to go to take care of their affairs such as banking, crafting, selling, clothes dyes, etc.

MornaBaine wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

The following poll will not have a "leave is exactly as is option" because this poll is designed to help pinpoint the most popular view among those who WOULD like to see changes..

Which means that this whole thing is a waste of time if those who want change are a trivial percentage of the entire playerbase who have a view that it's fine as it is.

Way to skew the result to the way you want it.

I never fail to be surprised by how poorly people understand polls and what they are and what they measure. Thus far a fairly small percentage of players have actually taken the poll. That will let ZoS know the percentage of players who take an actual interest in this topic. At least among those who visit these forums. I created the poll knowing the response would likely be relatively small. Sure, there's a risk ZoS will, for that reason, choose to ignore it. But if they are, in fact, willing to put the lie to their assertion that they DO care about the satisfaction of their small roleplaying base and refuse to do the things we request that don't even affect game mechanics and are, in fact, fairly simple to implement, then that let's ME know that this is a company that does not deserve my continued business. Trust me, the poll is working as intended.

Never ceases to amaze me how condescending the OP can be or how he can't get it through his head the community here isn't going to drink the cool-aid and will call him out

Nobody is buying that this poll was crafted to show how ZoS doesn't deserve his business or that the poll was basically created to provide confirmation for a decision to unsub. Gawd.

Reasons this is a terrible poll

Allows too much room for statistical manipulation. By virtue of it being a forum, those "polled" include everyone that took the time to read the OP.

The problem here is the poll doesn't ask questions that incorporate the participants. It blatantly leaves those that might not subscribe to the notion of "hiding" their vampirism or have other valid suggestions.

Subsequently the statistics can be misused and IMO would be, to support the never ending debate.

Polls like this allow for statements such as " 80% of respondents want Option X for hiding their vampirism." While technically true it falsely represents not only of the ESO population but also the vampire population. And frankly I've no confidence in the intellectual honesty of the OP where this subject is concerned.

i still think the visual effects being hidden during stage 1 is ideal, since you lose most of your benefits in that state as well..

MornaBaine wrote: »

chipputer wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Then you were not paying attention. Count Verandis Ravenwatch. 'Nuff said.

I recall him having a redness near his eyes that a normal character wouldn't. I picked him out as a vampire pretty much right away.

Regardless, one character having the ability to hide it for the sake of the story doesn't mean you have the ability to.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I'm right.

Actually, NO, you are not.

[images]

All right.

I submit.

You're correct. He hides it the first time you meet him. I actually had forgotten about that since it's been a while.

That doesn't change the fact that I covered this, though, when I made the quip about, "hiding it for the sake of the story." They hid it to keep the mystery of him alive and the NPCs that you interact with, at the time that he's around, even strongly hint that something's "off" about him, leading you to realize there's something he isn't telling you. You're asking for the exception to be made the norm simply for the sake that you want a visually appealing vampire.

EDIT: To add to this, the fact that you don't see him as a vampire at first makes a lot of sense, for your character. You have hardly any experience with vampires, storyline wise, at this point and likely couldn't have picked him out as one. Becoming one "early," or having seen a friend who is one doesn't actually count since the storyline tends to treat it as though you're the only one running around. Verandis wasn't revealed for the sake of the story and nothing more. The second you realize he's a vampire, by seeing it firsthand, he's revealed from then on out.

This is hardly a valid complaint since you knew what you were getting in to. It's not even just a situation that affects PvP. I dislike those that hide their vampirism in full armor so that way they can run in and tank dungeons heavy in fire damage, and then they repeatedly die because nobody ever knew they were a vampire.

This is something that needs to remain for gameplay purposes. I disagree with you, I disagree with your poll, and I disagree with your cited NPC source as the reason you should get the ability to hide it.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

chipputer wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Then you were not paying attention. Count Verandis Ravenwatch. 'Nuff said.

I recall him having a redness near his eyes that a normal character wouldn't. I picked him out as a vampire pretty much right away.

Regardless, one character having the ability to hide it for the sake of the story doesn't mean you have the ability to.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I'm right.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qH0DJF4MYxg/maxresdefault.jpg

His vampirism isn't hidden. He's just not as pale as someone who chose a paler skin color would have ended up being. The point is disproven and now moot. Thanks for playing. Come again.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

knock that "woe is me" nonsense off.

Don't trivialize someone else's legitimate opinions and complaints.

Uh, no. It's not a legitimate complaint so I'll trivialize it all I want, thanks. Vampires, in all ES games, have been pretty dang ugly. You just don't have the freedom to mod the MMO version of it. You knew what you were getting in to. You don't get to hide it.

Once again, INCORRECT.

When you FIRST meet Count Verandis, the dude has a TAN. He looks like a normal Altmer.



What else you got?

DIng! Ding!
And we have a winner!