What do you think of the PTS change of flaming oil?

Domander · October 2014

I think a better change would have been to just make the oil have to pour over an edge to do damage. There's 2 different pour indicators, one for the floor and one showing going over the edge. How am I supposed to know how far 6m is?

I also think that before they go changing all this stuff they should clean up the game, there are still a lot of crashes and bugs.

Zubba · October 2014

I like it

Nermy · October 2014

I'd have thought, going on averages, that an average character is nearly 2 m tall. So 3x a person's height.

I'd have certainly thought that pouring the oil form ANY wall would work... would be stupid not to.

pmn100b16_ESO · October 2014

So pouring oil from keep walls into the breech doesn't work anymore?

synnerman · October 2014

Put it this way, some of our guild inc 4 officers spoke about this last night and 6 out of 10 of us said that we will unsub and another 2 will be taking a break if this change goes live in 2 weeks and the AoE cap change that ZoS have spoken about in the guild summit isn't implemented.
We have all been hanging on as the zerg trains on Thornblade EU are ridiculous and one of the main ways of them being held back or stopped is oil+ meatbag etc and this will be the straw that broke the camels back.

Jaxsun · October 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pppeine3xC8

Chufu · October 2014

I love it.

It's very crappy, when groups just use this "mechanic" to put 4 Flame-oils behind the doors and just laughing, when the attackers come in and are down with a one-hit.

In addition to that, it is VERY unrealistic: Have you ever seen Oil-pots on the ground in the middle-age? NO. So I always wondered why this is possible in The Elder Scrolls Online.

Now, call it "nerf" or so on, it's just better. The groups who have used this mechanic to kill as many people as they can, must think about a new tactic now and on the other hand it will be more realistic.

So in my opinion: Nice change!

Lord_Draevan · October 2014

I think this change is half good, half bad.

On one hand, no more farming at resource towers or keep flags. Good!

On the other hand, impulse zergs will be harder to take down... but as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, it rarely stops those zergs anyways. It's quite rare that people put down enough pots to stop them, and you usually die in about 5 seconds anyways and they just burn the pots and move on.

Impulse zergs are still an issue, oilpots or not.

Nijjion · October 2014

Will patch v1.5.1 get rid of target caps? If not I will probably stop my sub for first time till it does as not looking forward to the only counter to turtle groups being removed.

Edit - Sorry I was wrong it's not only counter... the other counter is having more people... nice skill in that... not.

Braidas · October 2014

id be ok with it if they were removing aoe caps at the same time, but atm, this is a joke...

CoolsHisHands · October 2014

Nerfing ground-level oil pots: it's not the way I'd do it, but still a good change.

Implementing the nerf before lifting AoE caps: kind of ridiculous.

I've said before, several times in different threads, that being able to put a pot on the ground and having the damage radius be the same as if you're pouring it from a rooftop is crazy. My suggestion has always been to reduce the radius depending on how high above the ground the target is.

Pour the pot directly on the ground? 2m radius.
Pour the pot from 6m above? 6m radius.
Pour the pot from 12m above? 10m radius.

Now there will be situations where you're on some unusual terrain and lay a pot, only to find that you're only 5m above the target instead of 6m. Too bad for you.

Oils should really do damage wherever they're placed. Some artificial height restriction isn't very realistic.

Nikse · October 2014

Sleep wrote: »

PTS Patch Notes v1.5.1:
•Flaming Oil will now only affect targets that are at least 6 meters below you; oil will no longer do any damage if used on the ground.
[...]

totally agree

Sypher · October 2014

Sublime wrote: »

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Is this another thread about a change on PTS that's full of people who disagree without having tried it?

I'll have to stop you right there.

It's not about trying it our not. It's about judging based off the experiences that we have had with oil and the current meta of pvp.

Trying to land a spaceship on the sun is a bad idea. We know this without actually having to try it out first.

First: You can't compare landing on the sun with chaning oil pots.

Second: Trying something out is about giving you experience.

Third: It is not only the oil pots job to stop the bs (try meatbags).

So, if you try to deal with a bs:
Out-rotate them or pick of the ones at the back who are wasting Stamina to catch up at the front.

I personally don't care about keeps and the objectives on the map. I just know that a very popular tactic of Zerging the flag and flipping a keep before the guards and defenders are dead will be even easier than it is right now.

Tell me how to set up an effective meat bag inside the flag room. Never seen that one before.

Braidas · October 2014

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Is this another thread about a change on PTS that's full of people who disagree without having tried it?

I'll have to stop you right there.

It's not about trying it our not. It's about judging based off the experiences that we have had with oil and the current meta of pvp.

Trying to land a spaceship on the sun is a bad idea. We know this without actually having to try it out first.

First: You can't compare landing on the sun with chaning oil pots.

Second: Trying something out is about giving you experience.

Third: It is not only the oil pots job to stop the bs (try meatbags).

So, if you try to deal with a bs:
Out-rotate them or pick of the ones at the back who are wasting Stamina to catch up at the front.

I personally don't care about keeps and the objectives on the map. I just know that a very popular tactic of Zerging the flag and flipping a keep before the guards and defenders are dead will be even easier than it is right now.

Tell me how to set up an effective meat bag inside the flag room. Never seen that one before.

U can put It by the front door, even so it doesn't matter tht they can't heal if u can't hit all of them

Agrippa_Invisus · October 2014

If this goes live without any changes to AOE cap, defense becomes nearly impossible against the larger zergballs. They'll just stand on the flags and cap them without bothering to kill anyone or anything.

Bramir · October 2014

Another really bad idea disguised as a fix. I agree the way oil works right now is stupid, but zergbombs are stupider, and one of the only ways to kill people in one is to drop a negate while oil is being dumped on them. It doesn't always work, but there aren't a lot of good options for dealing with a zergbomb, especially at a flag.

If you make this change, the only way to stop a zerg bomb at a flag is to put together an equally large zergbomb, and we all know how well the server responds to this situation.

I really like this game, but I am seeing some really bad decision making at the moment...a pointless change to FCs, and a game-damaging change to oil mechanics. Who is making these decisions, and why aren't they being scrutinized by others before even being put on the PTS? I hope whoever it is isn't so proud and unbending that these changes make it live, because the oil one in particular could be a disaster. Many 'suits' are like that though...admitting a mistake is not an option, because they got their job by trashing their predecessors mistakes...

Huntler · October 2014

meatbags will be the new siege of choice for defending flags. Shame they are doing this, oil is a great zerg counter. I really don't know many people with half a brain who think this is a good idea, only lemmings do.

Hilariously enough this is also a silent buff to vampires if you really think about it.

Maulkin · October 2014

I am personally not a fan of the change.

Defending temple scrolls or scroll gates, defending outposts, defending alessia bridge, it's all becoming a lot harder now.

They could have reduced the locations where these oils could be placed so they're not placed on open fields, or random houses to be used for farming players.

Anyhow, I guess we'll see how it plays out but I feel it gives the zergball more power.

ghengis_dhan · October 2014

EdTerra wrote: »

Zenimax, oil on the top of a keep has never exist in the reality, it's just a myth from movies

You don't have the "reality" excuse.

Historically, defenders would drop whatever they could: rocks, chunks of the wall, you name it. Desperate people will use anything at their disposal.

I think oil pots are supposed to be an abstraction that represents this. You obviously can't knock a part of the wall on top of a group about to rush into a breach. We also don't have ladders, siege towers, or sap tunnels; all things that were heavily used historically.

I honestly don't know how I feel about the proposed change. I don't use oil myself because I'm always on volcanic rune and caltrops duty. But, 6 meters does seem a bit much. I'd think it would closer to 4 meters, but I don't have measuring tape when I run around Cyrodiil.

Subtomik · October 2014

Without AOE cap removal the EP/DC at any time other than prime can kiss everything they own goodbye. And the few AD groups who like to fight outnumbered behind enemy line are in trouble.

Will also end up picking vamp back up since this is probably the only real weakness a vamp has. Without that initial pour damage it's going to be a joke to survive flag caps as a vamp.

Sypher · October 2014

Can we get these new seige equipments?

So we can set them up inside flag rooms and still pour oil.

Braidas · October 2014

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Can we get these new seige equipments?

So we can set them up inside flag rooms and still pour oil.

Or how about a cannon that shoots oil 3m in the air? Anyway, I've no doubt people are gonna find ways around this "travel 6m" thing.

Zintair · October 2014

I was personally hoping they were going to do something with Forward Camps that was a bit more productive rather than rank 6 pvp.

This could be good or bad we will have to see as it applies in the current fight.

Sanct16 · October 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Glad this has changed, I've never used oil in this game as i find it pretty skilless to stand behind an oil and not be able to be targetted while killing scrubs who have no idea what purge is.

A welcomed change.

Of course you like the change as you always run with a bombgroup.

MrGhosty · October 2014

I would have to say that I am glad to see this change, what confounds me about this and all other changes is why these are coming before what it the obvious problem in the entire PvP meta.

I can see how they might not know how best to implement some more of the trickier changes so they're grappling onto anything that can be changed relatively simply. Personally I would rather just wait on the one big change then get a bunch of little changes that in many ways will cause the biggest problem of all to become overpowered. The biggest problem I see here is there is no predictability to their balancing patterns. We need to have a guild summit that is held within the game WHILE PvPing so these people can see first hand what is happening.

kewl · October 2014

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

to those who don't know how to tab target it is indeed extremely difficult to target players behind oil pots.

So change game mechanics? See quote below.

Malveria wrote: »

There were plenty of ways to counter oil, and oil farms. Purge, heal. Jump off the ground onto a box or ledge. Don't go into it.

There was nothing wrong with oils. Just something wrong with people who didn't know how to use things that are available to every class.

kewl · October 2014

Chufu wrote: »

In addition to that, it is VERY unrealistic: Have you ever seen Oil-pots on the ground in the middle-age? NO. So I always wondered why this is possible in The Elder Scrolls Online.

If we applied that logic, nothing in this game would be feasible.

Yusuf · October 2014

CoolsHisHands wrote: »

Nerfing ground-level oil pots: it's not the way I'd do it, but still a good change.

Implementing the nerf before lifting AoE caps: kind of ridiculous.

I've said before, several times in different threads, that being able to put a pot on the ground and having the damage radius be the same as if you're pouring it from a rooftop is crazy. My suggestion has always been to reduce the radius depending on how high above the ground the target is.

Pour the pot directly on the ground? 2m radius.
Pour the pot from 6m above? 6m radius.
Pour the pot from 12m above? 10m radius.

Now there will be situations where you're on some unusual terrain and lay a pot, only to find that you're only 5m above the target instead of 6m. Too bad for you.

Oils should really do damage wherever they're placed. Some artificial height restriction isn't very realistic.

This is actually a really good idea!

Ezareth · October 2014

The more I think about this from a strategic point of view the less I like it although I still think it is a change we should try before we pass judgment.

Basically defending zergs rushing the flag won't be nearly as difficult as defending the high ground in a keep which typically are lightly defended compared to the flag areas. Once you control the high ground there is nowhere you can be oiled and you can oil the NPCs and areas where a meatbag can be placed to defend the flag .

Stil lwe all have been complaining about Cyrodiil being boring and stale...things like this will only change it up and introduce new tactics and strategies. It almost certainly makes defense more difficult yet that perhaps isn't so bad.

Sleep · October 2014

囧
I think 6m is a bit too much if you just want to prevent people using oil pots on the ground.