MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

I don't PVP in this game because honestly, I read the forums before trying it and the PVP community turned me off to it immediately.

Perfect example:

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

We don't "think" we are better, we are certain of it.

Happy to prove that to you if you get off that carebear couch and come to PvP.

That attitude is what keeps alot of pve'ers from even thinking about coming to pvp. Every time i think about stepping foot in Cyrodill, i remember things like this and think to myself, i don't want to turn into that guy. No thank you.

Keep telling yourself that. The real reason you aren't in Cyrodil is because he is right, and you don't want to get flattened.

The hilarious part of the whole "I'm some awesome deadly dude 'cause I PvP" attitude is that I never get over picturing a PvPer and a PvEer side by side... both overweight dudes with a bag of chips nearby playing...a computer game. These are the same overweight dudes on the couch every Sunday screaming their lungs out with their faithful bag of chips at their side...who have never donned a helmet and set foot on a football field. Lacking the intestinal fortitude to participate in real combat sports (let alone real combat) this is the best they can do. It would be sad and laughable if they weren't so successful at ruining otherwise enjoyable games for the rest of us.

Countdown to this post getting yanked...4...3...2...

Not so sure about all this...the same competitive nature that led me to play all sorts of sports constantly while I was younger also results in me enjoying the competitive nature of PvP in video games now that I am almost 40. Maybe I'm not your typical PvPer, but maybe I am...

You are being seriously dramatic about balancing ruining games...almost emo. Are you sparkling yet?

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

I don't PVP in this game because honestly, I read the forums before trying it and the PVP community turned me off to it immediately.

Perfect example:

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

We don't "think" we are better, we are certain of it.

Happy to prove that to you if you get off that carebear couch and come to PvP.

That attitude is what keeps alot of pve'ers from even thinking about coming to pvp. Every time i think about stepping foot in Cyrodill, i remember things like this and think to myself, i don't want to turn into that guy. No thank you.

Keep telling yourself that. The real reason you aren't in Cyrodil is because he is right, and you don't want to get flattened.

The hilarious part of the whole "I'm some awesome deadly dude 'cause I PvP" attitude is that I never get over picturing a PvPer and a PvEer side by side... both overweight dudes with a bag of chips nearby playing...a computer game. These are the same overweight dudes on the couch every Sunday screaming their lungs out with their faithful bag of chips at their side...who have never donned a helmet and set foot on a football field. Lacking the intestinal fortitude to participate in real combat sports (let alone real combat) this is the best they can do. It would be sad and laughable if they weren't so successful at ruining otherwise enjoyable games for the rest of us.

Countdown to this post getting yanked...4...3...2...

Not so sure about all this...the same competitive nature that led me to play all sorts of sports constantly while I was younger also results in me enjoying the competitive nature of PvP in video games now that I am almost 40. Maybe I'm not your typical PvPer, but maybe I am...

You are being seriously dramatic about balancing ruining games...almost emo. Are you sparkling yet?

Thank you for providing yet another sterling example of why so many people dislike the PvP crowd. The utter inability to be civil. I myself studied karate and participated in tournaments, raced horses, dirt bikes, and rock climbed and hiked and camped all through my youth in addition to participating in archery and fencing. One of my guildies is a real life friend of many years who is still active military and has made 4 separate trips to both "sandboxes" of Iraq and Afghanistan. He currently trains other troops who are about to do the same. He is easily one of the deadliest men I know and I count several of those in my acquaintance. My running joke is that I've never dated a man who couldn't swing a sword. There is a Claimore sword nearly as long as I am tall next to my bed and I guarantee that the mad Scot I am married to knows how to use it. All of them that I know who game... are RPers first and are just as engaged with PvE content as with PvP content in the many games we've played. But "hardcore" PvPers? Even if they AREN'T gelatinous piles of goo DO share one trait in common... incivility and selfishness.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

I don't PVP in this game because honestly, I read the forums before trying it and the PVP community turned me off to it immediately.

Perfect example:

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

We don't "think" we are better, we are certain of it.

Happy to prove that to you if you get off that carebear couch and come to PvP.

That attitude is what keeps alot of pve'ers from even thinking about coming to pvp. Every time i think about stepping foot in Cyrodill, i remember things like this and think to myself, i don't want to turn into that guy. No thank you.

Keep telling yourself that. The real reason you aren't in Cyrodil is because he is right, and you don't want to get flattened.

The hilarious part of the whole "I'm some awesome deadly dude 'cause I PvP" attitude is that I never get over picturing a PvPer and a PvEer side by side... both overweight dudes with a bag of chips nearby playing...a computer game. These are the same overweight dudes on the couch every Sunday screaming their lungs out with their faithful bag of chips at their side...who have never donned a helmet and set foot on a football field. Lacking the intestinal fortitude to participate in real combat sports (let alone real combat) this is the best they can do. It would be sad and laughable if they weren't so successful at ruining otherwise enjoyable games for the rest of us.

Countdown to this post getting yanked...4...3...2...

Not so sure about all this...the same competitive nature that led me to play all sorts of sports constantly while I was younger also results in me enjoying the competitive nature of PvP in video games now that I am almost 40. Maybe I'm not your typical PvPer, but maybe I am...

You are being seriously dramatic about balancing ruining games...almost emo. Are you sparkling yet?

Thank you for providing yet another sterling example of why so many people dislike the PvP crowd. The utter inability to be civil. I myself studied karate and participated in tournaments, raced horses, dirt bikes, and rock climbed and hiked and camped all through my youth in addition to participating in archery and fencing. One of my guildies is a real life friend of many years who is still active military and has made 4 separate trips to both "sandboxes" of Iraq and Afghanistan. He currently trains other troops who are about to do the same. He is easily one of the deadliest men I know and I count several of those in my acquaintance. My running joke is that I've never dated a man who couldn't swing a sword. There is a Claimore sword nearly as long as I am tall next to my bed and I guarantee that the mad Scot I am married to knows how to use it. All of them that I know who game... are RPers first and are just as engaged with PvE content as with PvP content in the many games we've played. But "hardcore" PvPers? Even if they AREN'T gelatinous piles of goo DO share one trait in common... incivility and selfishness.

So, after claiming PvPers are pathetic people who ruin everyone elses fun, you go on to accuse PvPers of incivility? Considering the post I was responding to, I was more than civil.

I think you need to find a mirror...

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

I don't PVP in this game because honestly, I read the forums before trying it and the PVP community turned me off to it immediately.

Perfect example:

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

We don't "think" we are better, we are certain of it.

Happy to prove that to you if you get off that carebear couch and come to PvP.

That attitude is what keeps alot of pve'ers from even thinking about coming to pvp. Every time i think about stepping foot in Cyrodill, i remember things like this and think to myself, i don't want to turn into that guy. No thank you.

Keep telling yourself that. The real reason you aren't in Cyrodil is because he is right, and you don't want to get flattened.

The hilarious part of the whole "I'm some awesome deadly dude 'cause I PvP" attitude is that I never get over picturing a PvPer and a PvEer side by side... both overweight dudes with a bag of chips nearby playing...a computer game. These are the same overweight dudes on the couch every Sunday screaming their lungs out with their faithful bag of chips at their side...who have never donned a helmet and set foot on a football field. Lacking the intestinal fortitude to participate in real combat sports (let alone real combat) this is the best they can do. It would be sad and laughable if they weren't so successful at ruining otherwise enjoyable games for the rest of us.

Countdown to this post getting yanked...4...3...2...

Not so sure about all this...the same competitive nature that led me to play all sorts of sports constantly while I was younger also results in me enjoying the competitive nature of PvP in video games now that I am almost 40. Maybe I'm not your typical PvPer, but maybe I am...

You are being seriously dramatic about balancing ruining games...almost emo. Are you sparkling yet?

Thank you for providing yet another sterling example of why so many people dislike the PvP crowd. The utter inability to be civil. I myself studied karate and participated in tournaments, raced horses, dirt bikes, and rock climbed and hiked and camped all through my youth in addition to participating in archery and fencing. One of my guildies is a real life friend of many years who is still active military and has made 4 separate trips to both "sandboxes" of Iraq and Afghanistan. He currently trains other troops who are about to do the same. He is easily one of the deadliest men I know and I count several of those in my acquaintance. My running joke is that I've never dated a man who couldn't swing a sword. There is a Claimore sword nearly as long as I am tall next to my bed and I guarantee that the mad Scot I am married to knows how to use it. All of them that I know who game... are RPers first and are just as engaged with PvE content as with PvP content in the many games we've played. But "hardcore" PvPers? Even if they AREN'T gelatinous piles of goo DO share one trait in common... incivility and selfishness.

So, after claiming PvPers are pathetic people who ruin everyone elses fun, you go on to accuse PvPers of incivility? Considering the post I was responding to, I was more than civil.

I think you need to find a mirror...

If you have bothered to read all the "hardcore" PvP posturing in this thread you'd be forced to admit I'm right.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

I don't PVP in this game because honestly, I read the forums before trying it and the PVP community turned me off to it immediately.

Perfect example:

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

We don't "think" we are better, we are certain of it.

Happy to prove that to you if you get off that carebear couch and come to PvP.

That attitude is what keeps alot of pve'ers from even thinking about coming to pvp. Every time i think about stepping foot in Cyrodill, i remember things like this and think to myself, i don't want to turn into that guy. No thank you.

Keep telling yourself that. The real reason you aren't in Cyrodil is because he is right, and you don't want to get flattened.

The hilarious part of the whole "I'm some awesome deadly dude 'cause I PvP" attitude is that I never get over picturing a PvPer and a PvEer side by side... both overweight dudes with a bag of chips nearby playing...a computer game. These are the same overweight dudes on the couch every Sunday screaming their lungs out with their faithful bag of chips at their side...who have never donned a helmet and set foot on a football field. Lacking the intestinal fortitude to participate in real combat sports (let alone real combat) this is the best they can do. It would be sad and laughable if they weren't so successful at ruining otherwise enjoyable games for the rest of us.

Countdown to this post getting yanked...4...3...2...

BRO.


...


Bro.

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

"MornaBaine wrote: »

The hilarious part of the whole "I'm some awesome deadly dude 'cause I PvP" attitude is that I never get over picturing a PvPer and a PvEer side by side... both overweight dudes with a bag of chips nearby playing...a computer game. These are the same overweight dudes on the couch every Sunday screaming their lungs out with their faithful bag of chips at their side...who have never donned a helmet and set foot on a football field. Lacking the intestinal fortitude to participate in real combat sports (let alone real combat) this is the best they can do. It would be sad and laughable if they weren't so successful at ruining otherwise enjoyable games for the rest of us.

I'll bite.

1. Just because people PvP doesn't mean they don't PvE. Great example is that No Mercy I believe had one of the Top DSA times. I've beaten almost all of the PVE content in this game, except Sanctum and Hard Mode Hel Ra. Comparing that to your non-existent PvP accomplishments reinforces my earlier statements.
2. I can only speak for me personally, but I am not overweight, and I don't really ever eat potato chips.
3. I played football, LB and TE, to be exact. Not sure how football is any way relevant to this conversation though.



It's unfortunate you PVE-only players don't have the intestinal fortitude to even compete with other people in a video game.

I DO engage in PvP though I am more often engaged in PvE and even MORE often engaged in RP. The only reason I DON'T PvP as often as I PvE is because I am a story driven player who finds the lore content of the quests to be more interesting and mentally stimulating than playing "my pixels beat your pixels" for bragging rights on forums. It's fun, to be sure, but it will never engage me the way immersion in an astonishingly well done world will. Pro-tip: It doesn't actually require intestinal fortitude to sit in a comfy chair and push buttons.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

I don't PVP in this game because honestly, I read the forums before trying it and the PVP community turned me off to it immediately.

Perfect example:

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

We don't "think" we are better, we are certain of it.

Happy to prove that to you if you get off that carebear couch and come to PvP.

That attitude is what keeps alot of pve'ers from even thinking about coming to pvp. Every time i think about stepping foot in Cyrodill, i remember things like this and think to myself, i don't want to turn into that guy. No thank you.

Keep telling yourself that. The real reason you aren't in Cyrodil is because he is right, and you don't want to get flattened.

The hilarious part of the whole "I'm some awesome deadly dude 'cause I PvP" attitude is that I never get over picturing a PvPer and a PvEer side by side... both overweight dudes with a bag of chips nearby playing...a computer game. These are the same overweight dudes on the couch every Sunday screaming their lungs out with their faithful bag of chips at their side...who have never donned a helmet and set foot on a football field. Lacking the intestinal fortitude to participate in real combat sports (let alone real combat) this is the best they can do. It would be sad and laughable if they weren't so successful at ruining otherwise enjoyable games for the rest of us.

Countdown to this post getting yanked...4...3...2...

Not so sure about all this...the same competitive nature that led me to play all sorts of sports constantly while I was younger also results in me enjoying the competitive nature of PvP in video games now that I am almost 40. Maybe I'm not your typical PvPer, but maybe I am...

You are being seriously dramatic about balancing ruining games...almost emo. Are you sparkling yet?

Thank you for providing yet another sterling example of why so many people dislike the PvP crowd. The utter inability to be civil. I myself studied karate and participated in tournaments, raced horses, dirt bikes, and rock climbed and hiked and camped all through my youth in addition to participating in archery and fencing. One of my guildies is a real life friend of many years who is still active military and has made 4 separate trips to both "sandboxes" of Iraq and Afghanistan. He currently trains other troops who are about to do the same. He is easily one of the deadliest men I know and I count several of those in my acquaintance. My running joke is that I've never dated a man who couldn't swing a sword. There is a Claimore sword nearly as long as I am tall next to my bed and I guarantee that the mad Scot I am married to knows how to use it. All of them that I know who game... are RPers first and are just as engaged with PvE content as with PvP content in the many games we've played. But "hardcore" PvPers? Even if they AREN'T gelatinous piles of goo DO share one trait in common... incivility and selfishness.

So, after claiming PvPers are pathetic people who ruin everyone elses fun, you go on to accuse PvPers of incivility? Considering the post I was responding to, I was more than civil.

I think you need to find a mirror...

If you have bothered to read all the "hardcore" PvP posturing in this thread you'd be forced to admit I'm right.

You mean where we keep trying to explain that we have lots of incentive to report flaws in game balance, whereas PvEers do not? I think you may be mistaking banging our heads against a wall in disbelief at how hard this is to explain to people for posturing...

And in response to a thread with the title "Why all the major skill changes are driven by pvper at the expense of others?", do you really expect complete civility? Just from PvPers maybe?

Bramir wrote: »

If you have bothered to read all the "hardcore" PvP posturing in this thread you'd be forced to admit I'm right.

I see some pretty bad things posted by PvE players as well. You included.

Maaaaybe, this has less to do with a certain type of players and more to do with the fact that some people are just immature and can't help themselves around a forum?

PBpsy wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

DamitJanit wrote: »

I don't PVP in this game because honestly, I read the forums before trying it and the PVP community turned me off to it immediately.

Perfect example:

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

We don't "think" we are better, we are certain of it.

Happy to prove that to you if you get off that carebear couch and come to PvP.

That attitude is what keeps alot of pve'ers from even thinking about coming to pvp. Every time i think about stepping foot in Cyrodill, i remember things like this and think to myself, i don't want to turn into that guy. No thank you.

Keep telling yourself that. The real reason you aren't in Cyrodil is because he is right, and you don't want to get flattened.

The hilarious part of the whole "I'm some awesome deadly dude 'cause I PvP" attitude is that I never get over picturing a PvPer and a PvEer side by side... both overweight dudes with a bag of chips nearby playing...a computer game. These are the same overweight dudes on the couch every Sunday screaming their lungs out with their faithful bag of chips at their side...who have never donned a helmet and set foot on a football field. Lacking the intestinal fortitude to participate in real combat sports (let alone real combat) this is the best they can do. It would be sad and laughable if they weren't so successful at ruining otherwise enjoyable games for the rest of us.

Countdown to this post getting yanked...4...3...2...

Not so sure about all this...the same competitive nature that led me to play all sorts of sports constantly while I was younger also results in me enjoying the competitive nature of PvP in video games now that I am almost 40. Maybe I'm not your typical PvPer, but maybe I am...

You are being seriously dramatic about balancing ruining games...almost emo. Are you sparkling yet?

...40 and calls someone emo and uses a teenage dumba_s pop culture reference as an insult on an game forum ...
Maturity

Sorry, but the vampires in this thread only resemble the sparkly ones. Blackula was more serious about his vampirism than these, and Vlad the Impaler...well, the name says it all.

Akula wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

I find it quite funny that people think that PVP balance nerfs can drive the game towards PVE balance (whatever that means) or that people that mainly pve are not concerned about OP abilities. The truth is that most PVP related nerfs have been just for pvp balance had a detrimental or no effect on pve.The most popular demands for nerfs are also completely unrelated to pve balance.
Some examples.
-Death stroke sneak attack bonus removal. You could one shot any single basic trash mob with a overcharged ultimate from stealth and do some good damage to delve bosses. Yes terribly OP in pve.
-Annulment changes-In truth this one still functions for almost everything one used it before the changes in PVE. It is however absurd to say that these changes had anything to do with pve balance or that it was in any way OP before the changes in pve.
-The constant demand for armor actives at 5 piece. This one make absolutely no sense coming from a pve standpoint. (or pvp for that matter)
-Two of the most hated DK spells huge nerf cry generators-Reflective Scales and GDB. Absolutely nothing OP about them in PVE.
-Bolt Escape- Who really give a damn how fast and often can these guys zip around in PVE.Don't give me some BS about them farming nodes because there are plenty of ways to do that fast anyway and it isn't like there is now a shortage of freaking nodes.
-The super fast stealth-What was the effect for PVE again?
-The PTS Snipe - I certainly think it needs a nerf for PVP . For PVE it is almost just right.
-The PTS Nerf to impulse- It actually doesn't do anything to PVE damage output if you actually know how to use it. In my opinion the old impulse needed a 15-20% reduction in damage at the same range for pve. The nerf was done strictly for pvp reasons.

So you list a bunch of changes that dont affect PVE or are ones that you agree with? What exactly was your point?

But they do affect pve.
Death stroke sneak attack bonus removal -meant I will never actually put this on a bar for pve again.
Any changes they might make to DGB or Reflective Scales will have huge impacts to PVE DKs.
I will not point out how the other things affect pve since I hope that people are mentally equipped to get a point without it being painfully spelled out.

PvP balance nerfs will either affect PVE or not and they will effects mostly be in a bad way since the nerfs were not made with pve in mind.

Any change,even those that have minimal effect on the gameplay will always be a big hit to players enjoyment since that is how humans work.These constant nerfs and the common PVE/PVP skill set will cost them a lot of subs in the long run.

So then they were also OP in PVE?

Your argument is all over the place. Get your thoughts together and come back with something that not so nonsensical.

I don't know if I should bother with you since you appear unable to comprehend simple English or are being intentionally dense.I am sorry if you are unable to follow more than one idea at a time but will not bother to draw you a freaking diagram.

"So then they were also OP in PVE?"
No they were or are effective, useful or at the least functional.
Death stroke - It was useful for something and worth the ultimate slot in some PVE builds. After the nerf it is simply a pvp skill. In pve you can do better with most basic DD skills.

GDB or Reflective Scales- These are two of the skills that receive the most amount of complaints from pvp. They are effective and useful skills for PVE DK and anyone with an ounce of honesty will admit they are not OP for their pve role if they actually take the time to play a DK for a sufficient amount of time. Since they are effective and functional non OP skills in pve any change in power or functionality will be unfair and frustrating for any pve DK. I think it is not that hard to see why.

These are only two examples of skills where PVP balance can mean complete change in functionality of perfectly fine skills for PVE. This is why the skill balance should be either separate for PVP/PVE or much more incremental and less haphazard than ZOS currently does it.

So then they are actually non issues then. You're doing nothing but dodging and weaving.

Gythral wrote: »

The bit that gets me is that many of the PvPers think themselves 'superior' but fail basic literacy tests.

Learn to read - guys

Indeed.

You have listed one skill that was maybe marginally useful in pve, and to be honest never a big hot bed of controversy...ever. You have also listed two skills that haven't even been adjusted.

Your argument is flat out silly.

My argument may be silly but the argument that nerfing perfectly fine pve skills only for the sake of pvp balance is beneficial for pve or it doesn't affect pve player enjoyment of the game is beyond ridiculous.

Death Stroke was one of the first examples of a perfectly fine skill ruined for pve by pvp balance. It certainly affected my and other player enjoyment of our pve build at the time.

The Reflective Scales and GDB are relevant skills since they are a perfect example of how the aspects of the skills differ in importance depending where you are.
In pvp Scales has the ability to completely counter multiple ranged play styles and may be an issue but it is not one in pve. The ability to recover very fast and very reliably with GDB is an issue in pvp but not much of an issue in pve since every class has equally effective options for recovery in pve .They are also two skills that have a very high probability of being ruined for pve soon only due to pvp balance related reasons.

There are many other skills that show why pvp balance induced changes are not a very good idea.

I am not saying that pvp balance shouldn't be a priority or that no skills should be adjusted for pve reasons.I do and enjoy both pve and pvp. My point is that is should either be done separately or much more carefully and gradually than ZOS does it at the moment and both the PVE and PVP aspect should have equal weights when changes are made.

You still fail to realize your argument on "why pvpers are always ruining pvers fun"

I never at any point anywhere or any time under any circumstance made that statement. I think you have the wrong person.

My argument is that skill balancing only for PVP consideration is the wrong way to do it since different aspects of a skill count in different situations. An ok skill in PVE may be OP in pvp and an ok skill in pvp may be to good in pve. This is why adjustments should be done separately or with equal consideration for both PVE and PVP.

I did not chose bats since I do not care about them. For the case of bats actually, yes that skill is not OP in pve. I would not chose it over Veil or Banner for any good pve build, only Sorcs and Templars have any reason to use it since they do not have good dps/survivability ultimate and even then they don't even come close to Veil/Banner . Most of the vampires I have seen are actually somewhat of a liability in pve anyway. On the other hand the current Veil and Banner are not much of a problem in PVP. Bats did and does indeed cause some problems in pvp mostly due to invisibility , zerging and various other BS.

PBpsy wrote: »

-Death stroke sneak attack bonus removal. You could one shot any single basic trash mob with a overcharged ultimate from stealth and do some good damage to delve bosses. Yes terribly OP in pve.

Ok, so you admit that it was OP. As for one-shotting trash mobs, you can do the same with Veiled Strike and its morphs, so no big loss there, if one-shotting is what you love.

PBpsy wrote: »

Death stroke sneak attack bonus removal -meant I will never actually put this on a bar for pve again.

...So since it's apparently not (in your opinion) OP anymore, you won't be slotting it. So, it would seem you are one of the people who is really just upset that maybe your OP build isn't quite as OP anymore, and you might actually have to put in a bit more effort to kill stuff.

PBpsy wrote: »

Death Stroke was one of the first examples of a perfectly fine skill ruined for pve by pvp balance. It certainly affected my and other player enjoyment of our pve build at the time.

So, it ruined your enjoyment b/c you are slightly less OP. Boo hoo.

Although, I think that in regards to this particular skill, it is still good, and totally useful. It has a super low cost, and the ultimate-generating morph is great. If you think it has lost all usefulness, perhaps a re-evaluation of your build or play style is in order (see next paragraph).

Also, where is this info on Sneak bonus removal? I don't see this in PTS or recent patch notes. Link please. If this change has already been made, I sure haven't noticed. Besides, there are way better higher damage "opener" skills to use from sneak than this, so losing a sneak bonus to this seems pretty irrelevant anyway. Death Stroke is far better used throughout a fight to reduce target healing, and (soon) give you increased damage (wut +20% more damage??? Sounds good to me!) And if you were waiting for the ulti to charge up and use it as a finisher (and thus are now sad about ulti charge nerf), well, there are way better skills for finisher too - Impale/Killer's Blade is your big ticket finisher for class skills.

Furthermore, I don't really recall there ever being big complaints about this skill in PvE or PvP. The claim that this skill has been nerfed b/c of PvP complaints seems rather unfounded.

PBpsy wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Akula wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

I find it quite funny that people think that PVP balance nerfs can drive the game towards PVE balance (whatever that means) or that people that mainly pve are not concerned about OP abilities. The truth is that most PVP related nerfs have been just for pvp balance had a detrimental or no effect on pve.The most popular demands for nerfs are also completely unrelated to pve balance.
Some examples.
-Death stroke sneak attack bonus removal. You could one shot any single basic trash mob with a overcharged ultimate from stealth and do some good damage to delve bosses. Yes terribly OP in pve.
-Annulment changes-In truth this one still functions for almost everything one used it before the changes in PVE. It is however absurd to say that these changes had anything to do with pve balance or that it was in any way OP before the changes in pve.
-The constant demand for armor actives at 5 piece. This one make absolutely no sense coming from a pve standpoint. (or pvp for that matter)
-Two of the most hated DK spells huge nerf cry generators-Reflective Scales and GDB. Absolutely nothing OP about them in PVE.
-Bolt Escape- Who really give a damn how fast and often can these guys zip around in PVE.Don't give me some BS about them farming nodes because there are plenty of ways to do that fast anyway and it isn't like there is now a shortage of freaking nodes.
-The super fast stealth-What was the effect for PVE again?
-The PTS Snipe - I certainly think it needs a nerf for PVP . For PVE it is almost just right.
-The PTS Nerf to impulse- It actually doesn't do anything to PVE damage output if you actually know how to use it. In my opinion the old impulse needed a 15-20% reduction in damage at the same range for pve. The nerf was done strictly for pvp reasons.

So you list a bunch of changes that dont affect PVE or are ones that you agree with? What exactly was your point?

But they do affect pve.
Death stroke sneak attack bonus removal -meant I will never actually put this on a bar for pve again.
Any changes they might make to DGB or Reflective Scales will have huge impacts to PVE DKs.
I will not point out how the other things affect pve since I hope that people are mentally equipped to get a point without it being painfully spelled out.

PvP balance nerfs will either affect PVE or not and they will effects mostly be in a bad way since the nerfs were not made with pve in mind.

Any change,even those that have minimal effect on the gameplay will always be a big hit to players enjoyment since that is how humans work.These constant nerfs and the common PVE/PVP skill set will cost them a lot of subs in the long run.

So then they were also OP in PVE?

Your argument is all over the place. Get your thoughts together and come back with something that not so nonsensical.

I don't know if I should bother with you since you appear unable to comprehend simple English or are being intentionally dense.I am sorry if you are unable to follow more than one idea at a time but will not bother to draw you a freaking diagram.

"So then they were also OP in PVE?"
No they were or are effective, useful or at the least functional.
Death stroke - It was useful for something and worth the ultimate slot in some PVE builds. After the nerf it is simply a pvp skill. In pve you can do better with most basic DD skills.

GDB or Reflective Scales- These are two of the skills that receive the most amount of complaints from pvp. They are effective and useful skills for PVE DK and anyone with an ounce of honesty will admit they are not OP for their pve role if they actually take the time to play a DK for a sufficient amount of time. Since they are effective and functional non OP skills in pve any change in power or functionality will be unfair and frustrating for any pve DK. I think it is not that hard to see why.

These are only two examples of skills where PVP balance can mean complete change in functionality of perfectly fine skills for PVE. This is why the skill balance should be either separate for PVP/PVE or much more incremental and less haphazard than ZOS currently does it.

So then they are actually non issues then. You're doing nothing but dodging and weaving.

Gythral wrote: »

The bit that gets me is that many of the PvPers think themselves 'superior' but fail basic literacy tests.

Learn to read - guys

Indeed.

You have listed one skill that was maybe marginally useful in pve, and to be honest never a big hot bed of controversy...ever. You have also listed two skills that haven't even been adjusted.

Your argument is flat out silly.

My argument may be silly but the argument that nerfing perfectly fine pve skills only for the sake of pvp balance is beneficial for pve or it doesn't affect pve player enjoyment of the game is beyond ridiculous.

Death Stroke was one of the first examples of a perfectly fine skill ruined for pve by pvp balance. It certainly affected my and other player enjoyment of our pve build at the time.

The Reflective Scales and GDB are relevant skills since they are a perfect example of how the aspects of the skills differ in importance depending where you are.
In pvp Scales has the ability to completely counter multiple ranged play styles and may be an issue but it is not one in pve. The ability to recover very fast and very reliably with GDB is an issue in pvp but not much of an issue in pve since every class has equally effective options for recovery in pve .They are also two skills that have a very high probability of being ruined for pve soon only due to pvp balance related reasons.

There are many other skills that show why pvp balance induced changes are not a very good idea.

I am not saying that pvp balance shouldn't be a priority or that no skills should be adjusted for pve reasons.I do and enjoy both pve and pvp. My point is that is should either be done separately or much more carefully and gradually than ZOS does it at the moment and both the PVE and PVP aspect should have equal weights when changes are made.

You still fail to realize your argument on "why pvpers are always ruining pvers fun"

I never at any point anywhere or any time under any circumstance made that statement. I think you have the wrong person.

Thats the whole premise of this thread that you are providing your take and evidence on.

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

-Death stroke sneak attack bonus removal. You could one shot any single basic trash mob with a overcharged ultimate from stealth and do some good damage to delve bosses. Yes terribly OP in pve.

Ok, so you admit that it was OP...

Damn another one.
No it wasn't OP.

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Death stroke sneak attack bonus removal -meant I will never actually put this on a bar for pve again.

...and since it's apparently not (in your opinion) OP anymore, you won't be slotting it. So, it would seem you are one of the people who is really just upset that maybe your OP build isn't quite as OP anymore, and you might actually have to put in a bit more effort to kill stuff.

No since the NB still had the capability to one shot any single mob from stealth with Surprise attack and still had the ability to one shot a pack of mobs from stealth with Soul tether and still has that capability. When they took out the sneak bonus from that skill they took the ability to kill any simple single mob with an overcharged ultimate and the ability to do some serious but not exactly crazy damage to a delve or quest boss with an ultimate. It's kind of funny that you talk about me not liking difficulty in pve when I think that the difficulty nerf for pve was the biggest blunder ZOS made since launch.

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Death Stroke was one of the first examples of a perfectly fine skill ruined for pve by pvp balance. It certainly affected my and other player enjoyment of our pve build at the time.

So, it ruined your enjoyment b/c you are slightly less OP. Boo hoo.

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

No it made a ability that I had a certain use for about 2 months unable to fulfill that purpose. That ability was actually the lower power ultimate I could have used. I used it because I liked the feel of it not the power.

Although, I think that in regards to this particular skill, it is still good, and totally useful. It has a super low cost, and the ultimate-generating morph is great. If you think it has lost all usefulness, perhaps a re-evaluation of your build or play style is in order (see next paragraph).
Also, where is this info on Sneak bonus removal? I don't see this in PTS or recent patch notes. Link please. If this change has already been made, I sure haven't noticed....

The stealth damage removal was maybe four months ago. I just remembered it now due to the new changes to it. I am way past carrying about that skill for pve.I am still using the skill for pvp and I think I will use it even more now.

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

Furthermore, I don't really recall there ever being big complaints about this skill in PvE or PvP. So I just don't really understand why this one in particular seems to be at the top of your list.

It isn't at the top of my list. It is however a good example of a Skill changed only for PVP reasons (It was a one shot kill and it indeed required the nerf in pvp) that completely changed the functionality of a skill that was IMO perfectly balanced for pve in its original function.I used it because It illustrates the point I was trying to make and it was fresh in my mind due to the new Death stroke changes.

PBpsy wrote: »

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

-Death stroke sneak attack bonus removal. You could one shot any single basic trash mob with a overcharged ultimate from stealth and do some good damage to delve bosses. Yes terribly OP in pve.

Ok, so you admit that it was OP...

Damn another one.
No it wasn't OP.

You said it man, not me. Make up your mind.

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Death stroke - It was useful for something and worth the ultimate slot in some PVE builds. After the nerf it is simply a pvp skill. In pve you can do better with most basic DD skills.

I find that part in bold pretty amusing, because I hardly ever see anyone use this skill in PvP. Not because it's bad, but for PvP there are other better choices.

I wonder, @PBpsy, have you ever done ESO PvP? Personally, I participate in both PvE and PvP, and enjoy both equally, but unless you do as well, it's likely your opinions on these things are probably skewed.

Yes I had done pvp even though I am mainly pve I think I am pvp rank 12 on one plus 2 rank 5 and 6 characters.NB,DK,Sorc.

Actually for pvp Death stroke is great and it makes me wonder if you done much pvp with a NB. The healing debuff is almost essential for me when facing templars and DKs and since it fills like crazy it is one of the best NB skills for pvp. For PVE my build gains so much ultimate that I chain veils(I manged to even have 3 going at a time ) so why would I ever need anything else.

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

-Death stroke sneak attack bonus removal. You could one shot any single basic trash mob with a overcharged ultimate from stealth and do some good damage to delve bosses. Yes terribly OP in pve.

Ok, so you admit that it was OP...

Damn another one.
No it wasn't OP.

You said it man, not me. Make up your mind.

It wasn't OP for its PVE purpose. it was op for PVP where no ability should be one shot kill freaking anyone. What the hell is so damn hard to comprehend that an ability can be OP in PVP but not OP pve or the other way around.