So you gave in and nerfed Batswarm...

jelliedsoup · October 2014

Kirsika wrote: »

I just find it funny that pretty much no one was complaining about devouring swarm, yet they nerfed it. While the thing that had everyone whining, clouding swarm, remains untouched.

Devouring swarm has killed me almost as much as talons.

Jacques Berge · October 2014

Vampires are powerful, yes they should be. Could devouring swarm use a bit of a nerf? Maybe, popping an ultimate shouldn't make you invincible while simultaneously making you a killing machine.

However, vampires are weak against fire, which is the single most common damage type other than physical weapon attacks. Every player has access to the fighters guild, which, not only gives passives to damage, but also provides skills that a deadly as hell against vamps. Camouflaged hunter is the only way to get killed with 1 hit in pvp.

This post is niether for or against. Vamps!!! We're plenty powerful. Devouring swarm was a bit much. Non vamps... L2P, there's skills that everyone has access to that are specifically designed to kill vamps. Also, clouding swarm is an ultimate, Magelight is not, that is why it doesn't reveal, use AoEs or block.

jelliedsoup · October 2014

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Vampires are powerful, yes they should be. Could devouring swarm use a bit of a nerf? Maybe, popping an ultimate shouldn't make you invincible while simultaneously making you a killing machine.

However, vampires are weak against fire, which is the single most common damage type other than physical weapon attacks. Every player has access to the fighters guild, which, not only gives passives to damage, but also provides skills that a deadly as hell against vamps. Camouflaged hunter is the only way to get killed with 1 hit in pvp.

This post is niether for or against. Vamps!!! We're plenty powerful. Devouring swarm was a bit much. Non vamps... L2P, there's skills that everyone has access to that are specifically designed to kill vamps. Also, clouding swarm is an ultimate, Magelight is not, that is why it doesn't reveal, use AoEs or block.

Saying devouring swarm was a bit much and saying non vamps need to l2p makes no sense.

Natjur · October 2014

Balance. The dev's are always trying to balance the game, sometimes they will get it right, other times they will need to re-balance.

No matter what they do, someone will complain.
In the end, its a game and I am sure this is not the last time they are going to change the vampire skill line

The dev's already said their 'plan' was to have vampire's, werewolf's and 'normal' players to be balanced so all three options are not more powerful then the others.

Jacques Berge · October 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Vampires are powerful, yes they should be. Could devouring swarm use a bit of a nerf? Maybe, popping an ultimate shouldn't make you invincible while simultaneously making you a killing machine.

However, vampires are weak against fire, which is the single most common damage type other than physical weapon attacks. Every player has access to the fighters guild, which, not only gives passives to damage, but also provides skills that a deadly as hell against vamps. Camouflaged hunter is the only way to get killed with 1 hit in pvp.

This post is niether for or against. Vamps!!! We're plenty powerful. Devouring swarm was a bit much. Non vamps... L2P, there's skills that everyone has access to that are specifically designed to kill vamps. Also, clouding swarm is an ultimate, Magelight is not, that is why it doesn't reveal, use AoEs or block.

Saying devouring swarm was a bit much and saying non vamps need to l2p makes no sense.

Ok, let me clarify. Ultimate that makes you into an unstoppable killing machine for 5 seconds... Kind of nutty, shouldn't be THAT powerful.

If you're dying to a vamp not using devouring swarm, you probably lost because they fought better/smarter than you did and that's your problem.

Ultimate use is a pivotal part of the game. Everyone with half a brain knows, when the other guy pops his ult, you MOVE!!! Dodge roll, block, heal, pop your own ultimate. The games pretty straight forward in that regard. If someone pops bats swarm on you just pop your own ult (standard, VoB, Negate, Solar prison).

If you can't manage that... Get out of pvp... Or L2P!!!!!

kijima · October 2014

Which is why I'll be dropping vamp.

For balance, because being a vamp will be a death sentence.

jelliedsoup · October 2014

kijima wrote: »

Which is why I'll be dropping vamp.

For balance, because being a vamp will be a death sentence.

Previously fighting a vamp was a death sentence, so it's balanced.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

They should just give all you whiny vampires your own server and give you all god mode and infinite damage.

Awww you're cute, should they then give all the terribads that can't be bothered to move out of something that kills you a server with helmets and waterwings handed out at the doors?

"Vamp fanboys try too hard" button needed.

What're you going to say next? Something you perceive as clever about Twilight? Come on, I know you're just itching to bring it up, it's ok.

After 1.5

Vamps can go in daylight - check
Vamps will be melancholic - check (tears from nerf)
Vamps will glow sparkly - check (Evil Hunter)

Might as well name your character after a twilight character.

Jokes aside... you guys need to stop the denial.
No amount of "L2P" or "that's what dodge roll is for" can excuse how easy it is to kill other players as a vamp. The problems. Is the DPS and HPS output put I to one skill with an Ult cost below 120.....it is a no brainer. I could show my 6 yr old how to press 'R' after a few spams of 1,2,3 and he could kill seasoned alliance war vets.

The nerf was necessary.

Abuse something and it will be removed. Welcome to mmorpg balance

Hey did you miss the part where Vampire wasn't the problem but the tool used by insanely broken amounts of Ultimate generation allowing for the almost spammable Devouring Swarms?

For instance the Streak Elemental Ring spam Streak Devouring Swarm, rinse repeat combination used by Sorcs. Or the Talon spam, Elemental ring spam, green dragon blood, Devouring Swarm, rinse repeat done by DK's.

When's the last time you saw a nightblade or another class that wasn't a Sorc or DK spamming impulse in the middle of a crowd and then firing off Devouring Swarm.

So if you ask me, while yes, devouring swarm is the common denominator here, that doesn't make it the problem.

The fact that anyone can gain enough ultimate by facerolling 1 - 3 buttons is the problem.

Hence why they're addressing it with this: From the Day 2 Notes of the Guild Summit

Ultimates

Changes to Ultimate abilities and the way that Ultimate generation works are also coming soon to reconcile the difference between fast-ticking DoT stacking builds and slow attacking tanks to even out the rate at which different build types generate Ultimate resource.

Reduce variation in Ultimate generation between builds
Ultimates will scale off your highest stat and critical strike chance
Abilities and Morphs

Still think Vampire is the problem or are you just hating to hate?

TL:DR: Broken Ultimate Generation = Problem, Vampire =/= Problem. Read above for clarification.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

/thread

Bashev · October 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

TL:DR: Broken Ultimate Generation = Problem, Vampire =/= Problem. Read above for clarification.

Vampire ultimate is too cheap. This is the biggest problem. If it cost 250 or 300, or there is a soft cap for ultimate reduction it would be another story.

MornaBaine · October 2014

pppontus wrote: »

This was necessary, Devouring was pretty much a free "kill everything without giving a f" in PvE. Sure, it was nice to stay at full HP while having 30 mobs beating on you but it didn't make sense! It's still an extremely powerful ultimate, although I agree that Clouding should be revealed by Magelight because now that morph is a billion times better instead.

Although I plan to respec into a stamina vampire hunter once update 5 launches, with the new Evil Hunter revealing vamps.

I think it will be good for the state of the game to do some hunting, because Vampirism is still way more prevalent in Cyrodiil than it should be. It should be very powerful in the right hands, sure, but Camo Hunter will make it dangerous enough to balance that out as there will be a cool way to really build for hunting them down.

Maybe Swarm should even be made more powerful after that, we'll see! Anything to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodiil is good imo, 'cause it's kinda silly for it to be such an easy choice to make.

See, THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. EVERYTHING is about Cyrodil. ZoS is so busy falling all over themselves to make PvPers happy that they clearly don't give a frak about players who don't live to PvP. I don't play a vampire in order to "own" in Cyrodil. I play a vampire because I loved the way they did vampires in Skyrim/Dawnguard. Yet ESO vamps are about as far away from that as you can get. But will ZoS do ANYTHING to make them ENJOYABLE to play? NOOOO! Because it's SOOOOOO IMPORTANT to help reduce the numbers of vamps in Cyrodil so all they will do is nerf the vamps into the ground while doing NONE of the requested things (like, you know, having NPCs react to them in stages 3 and 4) that would actually make them enjoyable to play even in a non-PvP context.

Getting pretty tired of you ZoS. Keep ignoring vampires except when you want to frak them over and you WILL lose my sub.

CapuchinSeven · October 2014

Devouring trivializes PVE, those unable to accept that were likely the ones using it. If something is making a splash in PVP then you can put money on it having an effect on PVE, just that mobs don't come to forums to complain about it.

Bramir · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

This was necessary, Devouring was pretty much a free "kill everything without giving a f" in PvE. Sure, it was nice to stay at full HP while having 30 mobs beating on you but it didn't make sense! It's still an extremely powerful ultimate, although I agree that Clouding should be revealed by Magelight because now that morph is a billion times better instead.

Although I plan to respec into a stamina vampire hunter once update 5 launches, with the new Evil Hunter revealing vamps.

I think it will be good for the state of the game to do some hunting, because Vampirism is still way more prevalent in Cyrodiil than it should be. It should be very powerful in the right hands, sure, but Camo Hunter will make it dangerous enough to balance that out as there will be a cool way to really build for hunting them down.

Maybe Swarm should even be made more powerful after that, we'll see! Anything to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodiil is good imo, 'cause it's kinda silly for it to be such an easy choice to make.

See, THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. EVERYTHING is about Cyrodil. ZoS is so busy falling all over themselves to make PvPers happy that they clearly don't give a frak about players who don't live to PvP. I don't play a vampire in order to "own" in Cyrodil. I play a vampire because I loved the way they did vampires in Skyrim/Dawnguard. Yet ESO vamps are about as far away from that as you can get. But will ZoS do ANYTHING to make them ENJOYABLE to play? NOOOO! Because it's SOOOOOO IMPORTANT to help reduce the numbers of vamps in Cyrodil so all they will do is nerf the vamps into the ground while doing NONE of the requested things (like, you know, having NPCs react to them in stages 3 and 4) that would actually make them enjoyable to play even in a non-PvP context.

Getting pretty tired of you ZoS. Keep ignoring vampires except when you want to frak them over and you WILL lose my sub.

It isn't important to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodil just to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodil. There is a reason Cyrodil is filled with vamps, and that is that they are stronger than non-vamps in almost all situations in pvp. If you think so many top ranked pvpers are vamps because they like to sparkle, you are fooling yourself. They chose to be vamps because it gives them a major advantage. This is why it needed to be addressed...

MornaBaine · October 2014

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

This was necessary, Devouring was pretty much a free "kill everything without giving a f" in PvE. Sure, it was nice to stay at full HP while having 30 mobs beating on you but it didn't make sense! It's still an extremely powerful ultimate, although I agree that Clouding should be revealed by Magelight because now that morph is a billion times better instead.

Although I plan to respec into a stamina vampire hunter once update 5 launches, with the new Evil Hunter revealing vamps.

I think it will be good for the state of the game to do some hunting, because Vampirism is still way more prevalent in Cyrodiil than it should be. It should be very powerful in the right hands, sure, but Camo Hunter will make it dangerous enough to balance that out as there will be a cool way to really build for hunting them down.

Maybe Swarm should even be made more powerful after that, we'll see! Anything to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodiil is good imo, 'cause it's kinda silly for it to be such an easy choice to make.

See, THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. EVERYTHING is about Cyrodil. ZoS is so busy falling all over themselves to make PvPers happy that they clearly don't give a frak about players who don't live to PvP. I don't play a vampire in order to "own" in Cyrodil. I play a vampire because I loved the way they did vampires in Skyrim/Dawnguard. Yet ESO vamps are about as far away from that as you can get. But will ZoS do ANYTHING to make them ENJOYABLE to play? NOOOO! Because it's SOOOOOO IMPORTANT to help reduce the numbers of vamps in Cyrodil so all they will do is nerf the vamps into the ground while doing NONE of the requested things (like, you know, having NPCs react to them in stages 3 and 4) that would actually make them enjoyable to play even in a non-PvP context.

Getting pretty tired of you ZoS. Keep ignoring vampires except when you want to frak them over and you WILL lose my sub.

It isn't important to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodil just to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodil. There is a reason Cyrodil is filled with vamps, and that is that they are stronger than non-vamps in almost all situations in pvp. If you think so many top ranked pvpers are vamps because they like to sparkle, you are fooling yourself. They chose to be vamps because it gives them a major advantage. This is why it needed to be addressed...

I would not be SO resentful of these changes IF ZoS ALSO payed the slightest bit of attention to vamps in a positive or at least interesting way. They were just implemented SO POORLY overall that I really believe they desperately need a ...revamp. Bad pun not entirely intended.

Bramir · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

This was necessary, Devouring was pretty much a free "kill everything without giving a f" in PvE. Sure, it was nice to stay at full HP while having 30 mobs beating on you but it didn't make sense! It's still an extremely powerful ultimate, although I agree that Clouding should be revealed by Magelight because now that morph is a billion times better instead.

Although I plan to respec into a stamina vampire hunter once update 5 launches, with the new Evil Hunter revealing vamps.

I think it will be good for the state of the game to do some hunting, because Vampirism is still way more prevalent in Cyrodiil than it should be. It should be very powerful in the right hands, sure, but Camo Hunter will make it dangerous enough to balance that out as there will be a cool way to really build for hunting them down.

Maybe Swarm should even be made more powerful after that, we'll see! Anything to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodiil is good imo, 'cause it's kinda silly for it to be such an easy choice to make.

See, THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. EVERYTHING is about Cyrodil. ZoS is so busy falling all over themselves to make PvPers happy that they clearly don't give a frak about players who don't live to PvP. I don't play a vampire in order to "own" in Cyrodil. I play a vampire because I loved the way they did vampires in Skyrim/Dawnguard. Yet ESO vamps are about as far away from that as you can get. But will ZoS do ANYTHING to make them ENJOYABLE to play? NOOOO! Because it's SOOOOOO IMPORTANT to help reduce the numbers of vamps in Cyrodil so all they will do is nerf the vamps into the ground while doing NONE of the requested things (like, you know, having NPCs react to them in stages 3 and 4) that would actually make them enjoyable to play even in a non-PvP context.

Getting pretty tired of you ZoS. Keep ignoring vampires except when you want to frak them over and you WILL lose my sub.

It isn't important to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodil just to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodil. There is a reason Cyrodil is filled with vamps, and that is that they are stronger than non-vamps in almost all situations in pvp. If you think so many top ranked pvpers are vamps because they like to sparkle, you are fooling yourself. They chose to be vamps because it gives them a major advantage. This is why it needed to be addressed...

I would not be SO resentful of these changes IF ZoS ALSO payed the slightest bit of attention to vamps in a positive or at least interesting way. They were just implemented SO POORLY overall that I really believe they desperately need a ...revamp. Bad pun not entirely intended.

I tend to agree. The only thing the vampire skill line should have added to this game was flavor and lore...not uber power. Only those who really want to be a vampire should find it an attractive option...

MornaBaine · October 2014

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

This was necessary, Devouring was pretty much a free "kill everything without giving a f" in PvE. Sure, it was nice to stay at full HP while having 30 mobs beating on you but it didn't make sense! It's still an extremely powerful ultimate, although I agree that Clouding should be revealed by Magelight because now that morph is a billion times better instead.

Although I plan to respec into a stamina vampire hunter once update 5 launches, with the new Evil Hunter revealing vamps.

I think it will be good for the state of the game to do some hunting, because Vampirism is still way more prevalent in Cyrodiil than it should be. It should be very powerful in the right hands, sure, but Camo Hunter will make it dangerous enough to balance that out as there will be a cool way to really build for hunting them down.

Maybe Swarm should even be made more powerful after that, we'll see! Anything to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodiil is good imo, 'cause it's kinda silly for it to be such an easy choice to make.

See, THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. EVERYTHING is about Cyrodil. ZoS is so busy falling all over themselves to make PvPers happy that they clearly don't give a frak about players who don't live to PvP. I don't play a vampire in order to "own" in Cyrodil. I play a vampire because I loved the way they did vampires in Skyrim/Dawnguard. Yet ESO vamps are about as far away from that as you can get. But will ZoS do ANYTHING to make them ENJOYABLE to play? NOOOO! Because it's SOOOOOO IMPORTANT to help reduce the numbers of vamps in Cyrodil so all they will do is nerf the vamps into the ground while doing NONE of the requested things (like, you know, having NPCs react to them in stages 3 and 4) that would actually make them enjoyable to play even in a non-PvP context.

Getting pretty tired of you ZoS. Keep ignoring vampires except when you want to frak them over and you WILL lose my sub.

It isn't important to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodil just to reduce the number of vamps in Cyrodil. There is a reason Cyrodil is filled with vamps, and that is that they are stronger than non-vamps in almost all situations in pvp. If you think so many top ranked pvpers are vamps because they like to sparkle, you are fooling yourself. They chose to be vamps because it gives them a major advantage. This is why it needed to be addressed...

I would not be SO resentful of these changes IF ZoS ALSO payed the slightest bit of attention to vamps in a positive or at least interesting way. They were just implemented SO POORLY overall that I really believe they desperately need a ...revamp. Bad pun not entirely intended.

I tend to agree. The only thing the vampire skill line should have added to this game was flavor and lore...not uber power. Only those who really want to be a vampire should find it an attractive option...

Soooo all of this. ^^ Either that or it should have been a separate class altogether that you select at character creation. That takes the fun out of being "turned" in game but let's face it, ZoS took the cheapest, least fun method of accomplishing that anyway. There is no cool questline that leads you to vampires or werewolves in the game, both were clearly thrown in as an afterthought after ES fans loudly and rightly pointed out that vamps and werewolves have always been a big part of the game and its lore. The way they were implemented just screams of last minute knuckling under. Frankly, I'd have been happier if they had NOT done them at all until they either do an expansion or a MAJOR update that would have centered around them.

ZOS_AmeliaR · October 2014

We've removed a number of comments from this thread because they violated our Community Rules. We want to remind everyone that while we welcome continued discussion of this topic, we expect the discussion to remain civil and constructive. We do not allow for personal attacks, trolling, baiting, or flaming. Thank you for understanding.

OrangeTheCat · October 2014

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Morduil wrote: »

This seems to imply that there are a large number of players making these requests. Perhaps there are, perhaps not, who can say? Interestingly, however, I've noticed over the weeks that an extraordinary preponderance of those requests have come from a single player, who seems to enjoy deluging the forums with requests for this, that and everything else about vampires.

That player has such consistency in this that it's almost worth creating an entire forum subcategory just for his/her vampire posts, to stop the clutter on the General forum.

The player I'm referring to? Ah, well - oh good grief, there's a coincidence....

Wreunt's Guide to Determining Nerfworthiness

1. Find a thread written by a nerf proponent.
2. Count the number of opponent posts and subtract the number of proponent posts.
3. Count the number of opponent ad hominem attacks and subtract the number of proponent ad hominem attacks.
4. Count the number of 1337 speak terms used.

After three days:

5. Count how many pages the thread reaches.
6. Add 2 and 3.
7. If 6 is greater than zero, 4 is greater than 20, and 5 is over 8: NERFWORTHY.

There are three reasons I think that people defending overpowered skills must have an average age in the teens. They post as many defensive posts as possible to make sure everyone knows that the skill is balanced. They denigrate any proponent of a nerf as much as possible to reduce their credibility. They have no clue that they are hastening the nerf exponentially because they think one and two work in real life.

Yup. The ad hominem part for sure; you can be sure you are dealing with a maturity challenged individual. I wish ZOS could just ignore them and their irrationality. I put most of these folks on my "ignore" list and move on as their comments tend not to be worth reading.

The fact that the vast majority of PvP players are vampires strongly suggests there is something wrong with the vampire skill set despite how many insults you want to throw at me or whatever character flaws you want to insinuate.

OrangeTheCat · October 2014

ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »

We've removed a number of comments from this thread because they violated our Community Rules. We want to remind everyone that while we welcome continued discussion of this topic, we expect the discussion to remain civil and constructive. We do not allow for personal attacks, trolling, baiting, or flaming. Thank you for understanding.

Well done!

ThisOnePosts · October 2014

Suggestion: All vamps get cured (you can get it again, but first reset your skill points). Go into Cyrodiil. Show helmets covering your face so people don't know if you are a vamp or not. Watch as they waste Stamina spamming FG skills since they don't know what else to do, then proceed to kill them while standing in their pools of fire. You will see just how much more powerful you are not being a Vamp. I had to try it myself to believe it. The passives ARE NOT worthwhile in battle since you are almost always getting hit with fire from some direction. Wouldn't you rather your mitigation be working much more efficiently rather than being dedicated to fire? There is a big difference, the Vamp ultimate is nice but any seasoned gamer with some common sense will know how to deal with it very easily!!!!!!!!! How? You save stamina for the important things like blocking heavy attacks, blocking when NBs cloak, rolling out of talons, running/rolling out of bat swarm. Sure there are a few other attacks to block as well however sometimes it's better to take a little damage and avoid the bigger problems. C'mon, people should know this by now.

I never have problems with Vamps now as a non-Vamp just as I didn't before as a Vamp.

Right now other than RP elements, Vamp is just not worth it.

Elridge · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

I enjoy PvP but don't so it all that often. But it annoys the blue blazes out of me that they keep nerfing my main over an activity I'm not even all that interested in yet it screws with PvE as well and they REFUSE to acknowledge all the requests for other changes/additions to vampires. Seriously ZoS every single PLAYER in the game knows my character is a vampire....NONE of the NPCs do. THAT is just flatly STUPID. FIX IT.

why would they add anything new to it when werewolves currently have a third of the skills and even less of a fraction of the power? (which they currently are working on) at least there is a point to being a vampire, being a werewolf currently is just a hindrance. With the amount of Vampires in the game/in pvp, I would say nerfing them is justified, if they weren't so over powered so many people wouldn't be one.

Xsorus · October 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

They should just give all you whiny vampires your own server and give you all god mode and infinite damage.

Awww you're cute, should they then give all the terribads that can't be bothered to move out of something that kills you a server with helmets and waterwings handed out at the doors?

"Vamp fanboys try too hard" button needed.

What're you going to say next? Something you perceive as clever about Twilight? Come on, I know you're just itching to bring it up, it's ok.

After 1.5

Vamps can go in daylight - check
Vamps will be melancholic - check (tears from nerf)
Vamps will glow sparkly - check (Evil Hunter)

Might as well name your character after a twilight character.

Jokes aside... you guys need to stop the denial.
No amount of "L2P" or "that's what dodge roll is for" can excuse how easy it is to kill other players as a vamp. The problems. Is the DPS and HPS output put I to one skill with an Ult cost below 120.....it is a no brainer. I could show my 6 yr old how to press 'R' after a few spams of 1,2,3 and he could kill seasoned alliance war vets.

The nerf was necessary.

Abuse something and it will be removed. Welcome to mmorpg balance

Hey did you miss the part where Vampire wasn't the problem but the tool used by insanely broken amounts of Ultimate generation allowing for the almost spammable Devouring Swarms?

For instance the Streak Elemental Ring spam Streak Devouring Swarm, rinse repeat combination used by Sorcs. Or the Talon spam, Elemental ring spam, green dragon blood, Devouring Swarm, rinse repeat done by DK's.

When's the last time you saw a nightblade or another class that wasn't a Sorc or DK spamming impulse in the middle of a crowd and then firing off Devouring Swarm.

So if you ask me, while yes, devouring swarm is the common denominator here, that doesn't make it the problem.

The fact that anyone can gain enough ultimate by facerolling 1 - 3 buttons is the problem.

Hence why they're addressing it with this: From the Day 2 Notes of the Guild Summit

Ultimates

Changes to Ultimate abilities and the way that Ultimate generation works are also coming soon to reconcile the difference between fast-ticking DoT stacking builds and slow attacking tanks to even out the rate at which different build types generate Ultimate resource.

Reduce variation in Ultimate generation between builds
Ultimates will scale off your highest stat and critical strike chance
Abilities and Morphs

Still think Vampire is the problem or are you just hating to hate?

TL:DR: Broken Ultimate Generation = Problem, Vampire =/= Problem. Read above for clarification.

Clearly you've not seen what a caster Nightblade can do with Batswarm and Sap Essence.

Parrotbrain · October 2014

Aeratus wrote: »

This nerf to batswarm was a good move and was fair.

No need to explain, but I'll quote this from another post to explain why it was for the better.

Neizir wrote: »

You sir, just made my day! Good on ya

ExiledKhallisi · October 2014

Jacques Berge wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Jacques Berge wrote: »

Vampires are powerful, yes they should be. Could devouring swarm use a bit of a nerf? Maybe, popping an ultimate shouldn't make you invincible while simultaneously making you a killing machine.

However, vampires are weak against fire, which is the single most common damage type other than physical weapon attacks. Every player has access to the fighters guild, which, not only gives passives to damage, but also provides skills that a deadly as hell against vamps. Camouflaged hunter is the only way to get killed with 1 hit in pvp.

This post is niether for or against. Vamps!!! We're plenty powerful. Devouring swarm was a bit much. Non vamps... L2P, there's skills that everyone has access to that are specifically designed to kill vamps. Also, clouding swarm is an ultimate, Magelight is not, that is why it doesn't reveal, use AoEs or block.

Saying devouring swarm was a bit much and saying non vamps need to l2p makes no sense.

Ok, let me clarify. Ultimate that makes you into an unstoppable killing machine for 5 seconds... Kind of nutty, shouldn't be THAT powerful.

If you're dying to a vamp not using devouring swarm, you probably lost because they fought better/smarter than you did and that's your problem.

Ultimate use is a pivotal part of the game. Everyone with half a brain knows, when the other guy pops his ult, you MOVE!!! Dodge roll, block, heal, pop your own ultimate. The games pretty straight forward in that regard. If someone pops bats swarm on you just pop your own ult (standard, VoB, Negate, Solar prison).

If you can't manage that... Get out of pvp... Or L2P!!!!!

"Makes you an unstoppable killing machine but others need to L2p."

Lol

stumpy999 · October 2014

the bit that is annoying is the DK, talons, flag, Batswarm, talon, talons, talons, rotation that is irritatingly popular in pvp.

So powerful that you get solo DK's charging groups secure in their POWAH.

They do die, but the batswarm is mucho irritating as it make the guy disappear and unless you are an aoe player you are helically challenged.

WraithAzraiel · October 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

They should just give all you whiny vampires your own server and give you all god mode and infinite damage.

Awww you're cute, should they then give all the terribads that can't be bothered to move out of something that kills you a server with helmets and waterwings handed out at the doors?

"Vamp fanboys try too hard" button needed.

What're you going to say next? Something you perceive as clever about Twilight? Come on, I know you're just itching to bring it up, it's ok.

After 1.5

Vamps can go in daylight - check
Vamps will be melancholic - check (tears from nerf)
Vamps will glow sparkly - check (Evil Hunter)

Might as well name your character after a twilight character.

Jokes aside... you guys need to stop the denial.
No amount of "L2P" or "that's what dodge roll is for" can excuse how easy it is to kill other players as a vamp. The problems. Is the DPS and HPS output put I to one skill with an Ult cost below 120.....it is a no brainer. I could show my 6 yr old how to press 'R' after a few spams of 1,2,3 and he could kill seasoned alliance war vets.

The nerf was necessary.

Abuse something and it will be removed. Welcome to mmorpg balance

Hey did you miss the part where Vampire wasn't the problem but the tool used by insanely broken amounts of Ultimate generation allowing for the almost spammable Devouring Swarms?

For instance the Streak Elemental Ring spam Streak Devouring Swarm, rinse repeat combination used by Sorcs. Or the Talon spam, Elemental ring spam, green dragon blood, Devouring Swarm, rinse repeat done by DK's.

When's the last time you saw a nightblade or another class that wasn't a Sorc or DK spamming impulse in the middle of a crowd and then firing off Devouring Swarm.

So if you ask me, while yes, devouring swarm is the common denominator here, that doesn't make it the problem.

The fact that anyone can gain enough ultimate by facerolling 1 - 3 buttons is the problem.

Hence why they're addressing it with this: From the Day 2 Notes of the Guild Summit

Ultimates

Changes to Ultimate abilities and the way that Ultimate generation works are also coming soon to reconcile the difference between fast-ticking DoT stacking builds and slow attacking tanks to even out the rate at which different build types generate Ultimate resource.

Reduce variation in Ultimate generation between builds
Ultimates will scale off your highest stat and critical strike chance
Abilities and Morphs

Still think Vampire is the problem or are you just hating to hate?

TL:DR: Broken Ultimate Generation = Problem, Vampire =/= Problem. Read above for clarification.

Clearly you've not seen what a caster Nightblade can do with Batswarm and Sap Essence.

In a skirt with a stick right?

Cuuuuuz if that's the case you just proved my point.

Wreuntzylla · October 2014

ViciousWayz wrote: »

Suggestion: All vamps get cured (you can get it again, but first reset your skill points). Go into Cyrodiil. Show helmets covering your face so people don't know if you are a vamp or not. Watch as they waste Stamina spamming FG skills since they don't know what else to do, then proceed to kill them while standing in their pools of fire. You will see just how much more powerful you are not being a Vamp. I had to try it myself to believe it. The passives ARE NOT worthwhile in battle since you are almost always getting hit with fire from some direction. Wouldn't you rather your mitigation be working much more efficiently rather than being dedicated to fire? There is a big difference, the Vamp ultimate is nice but any seasoned gamer with some common sense will know how to deal with it very easily!!!!!!!!! How? You save stamina for the important things like blocking heavy attacks, blocking when NBs cloak, rolling out of talons, running/rolling out of bat swarm. Sure there are a few other attacks to block as well however sometimes it's better to take a little damage and avoid the bigger problems. C'mon, people should know this by now.

I never have problems with Vamps now as a non-Vamp just as I didn't before as a Vamp.

Right now other than RP elements, Vamp is just not worth it.

In ESO PvP, either ttl is super short (e.g., medium sized combat) or way too long (e.g., zergballing). In either case, you are better off maximizing your dps at the expense of everything but shield stacking or reflect. And reflect is a twofer with a significant dps component.

Darklord_Tiberius · October 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

...but added a crit chance to Drain. I am KIND OF okay with that ZoS though until you give me fire mitigatin that actually works consistently I AM a bit annoyed. Apparently "Nerf vampires!" is the new mantra...but yet you can't be bothered to do ANYTHING to make them more fun to play? What about altering the Stage timers? At the very least? Or are you just determined to make them so NOT fun to play that people will start dropping them?

Ah another person that is upset over their Batswarm getting adjusted. Let me explain the facts for you and why this is actually a positive thing because either A: You hardly PvP and are unaware of its capability or B: You do PvP and use it, hence the complaining.

I was a WW since day 2 of this game, pre-launch , the first to attain Max WW and one of the only people to identity magnitudes of bugs and glitches within that skill line at launch. I love the concept of Vampires and WW in this game, it is TES tradition to have this capability in the game, but the thing people are forgetting is that these are support skill lines. These skill lines are in no way meant to override or be more powerful than your main class skill lines. This is not the Twilight Saga so if that is what you want, leave the game?

It is LONG overdue for Werewolf to get an adjustment to make it more practical. Back at launch, trying to gather 1000 Ultimate just to morph and get maybe 20 seconds of usage was lame. On top of that, more than 50% of the time the morph would bug and you would have yet again another wasted 1000 ultimate. It was frustrating to say the least. I know the pains of this all too well, more than most players that have done WW and that of all players that only decided to level up the Vampire Skill line. Vampire and Werewolf are completely different and from my perspective from leveling both and using both in PvP, Werewolf is far more challenging and under powered.

That being said, until we as a community can test out the new Werewolf changes and really see if that skill line is practical in PvP, as much as Vampire is, then yes the adjustment to batswarm is reasonable.

I say it is reasonable because the healing capability is extreme. Recently, a few of my officers, guild mates and I decided to experiment with Batswarm to see if all the complaining on the forums was legitimate or just bad players. From what we have experimented with, it seems that it is quite legitimate. When I can solo a resource, there is something wrong. When a 4 man PvP group can take on groups 3x our size and kill them all, there is something wrong. We have very good PvPers, but running batswarm has never been and never will be our guild strategy. Vampire is the Cheese way to play in Cyrodiil, keep in mind also I am a Templar, so your fire damage will not hurt me, your fighters guild abilities will not hurt me. I also love the posts of people saying, "Stay out of bats and you'll live" anyone with a charge will stay on you like white on rice, so please enough with that lame ass excuse. I have played all three Vampire, WW and Normal; by far Vampires have the advantage on anyone else. Just a perspective from someone that has experienced most if not all aspects of Cyrodiil.

BBSooner · October 2014

ViciousWayz wrote: »

Suggestion: All vamps get cured (you can get it again, but first reset your skill points). Go into Cyrodiil. Show helmets covering your face so people don't know if you are a vamp or not. Watch as they waste Stamina spamming FG skills since they don't know what else to do, then proceed to kill them while standing in their pools of fire. You will see just how much more powerful you are not being a Vamp. I had to try it myself to believe it. The passives ARE NOT worthwhile in battle since you are almost always getting hit with fire from some direction. Wouldn't you rather your mitigation be working much more efficiently rather than being dedicated to fire? There is a big difference, the Vamp ultimate is nice but any seasoned gamer with some common sense will know how to deal with it very easily!!!!!!!!! How? You save stamina for the important things like blocking heavy attacks, blocking when NBs cloak, rolling out of talons, running/rolling out of bat swarm. Sure there are a few other attacks to block as well however sometimes it's better to take a little damage and avoid the bigger problems. C'mon, people should know this by now.

I never have problems with Vamps now as a non-Vamp just as I didn't before as a Vamp.

Right now other than RP elements, Vamp is just not worth it.

What's interesting about the suggestion is the admission that the players in Cyrodiil assume/expect their opponent to be vampire simply because of its prevalence. It isn't prevalent because it's a terrible skill line.

ShadoPanauin · October 2014

Now people are complaining about clouding swarm? What is left in the vamp tree beyond bat swarm? "play the way you want" should also include AoE specs, which seems to be the saying everybody wants.