GL thieves in Justice system.....you will need it.
ExiledKhallisi
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With the overpowered ridiculousness of DK DPS/Tank hybrid builds. I get to go from fighting 1vs6-10 players in Cyrodil to destroying anyone who isnt a DK 1v1 in the Justice System as a guard.
BEFORE YOU IMPLEMENT THIS NEW PVP. BALANCE YOUR CLASSES.
Edited by ExiledKhallisi on October 11, 2014 4:56PM BEFORE YOU IMPLEMENT THIS NEW PVP. BALANCE YOUR CLASSES.
>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<
||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
32
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Cazic✭✭✭✭✭That's a pretty legit concern. But, let them roll out new features and see how they work before worrying too much about it. It may not be as much of an issue as you think. Plus, class balance is an ongoing thing that will probably never be perfect - they can't hold off on adding new content just because the balance isn't perfect.4 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭That's a pretty legit concern. But, let them roll out new features and see how they work before worrying too much about it. It may not be as much of an issue as you think. Plus, class balance is an ongoing thing that will probably never be perfect - they can't hold off on adding new content just because the balance isn't perfect.
The player base have suggested plenty of changes that would fix most issues. ZOS needs to get off their high horse and listen to their players. Listening to a "Select" few at guild summit who never seem to ask the right questions is not enough. They need to get off 3rd party websites and talk to us here. Their whole customer service model is shady.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War17 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭That's a pretty legit concern. But, let them roll out new features and see how they work before worrying too much about it. It may not be as much of an issue as you think. Plus, class balance is an ongoing thing that will probably never be perfect - they can't hold off on adding new content just because the balance isn't perfect.
I generally agree with you. But class balance isn't just not perfect; it's way out of whack. ZOS needs to at least get it in the ballpark.5 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »That's a pretty legit concern. But, let them roll out new features and see how they work before worrying too much about it. It may not be as much of an issue as you think. Plus, class balance is an ongoing thing that will probably never be perfect - they can't hold off on adding new content just because the balance isn't perfect.
The player base have suggested plenty of changes that would fix most issues. ZOS needs to get off their high horse and listen to their players. Listening to a "Select" few at guild summit who never seem to ask the right questions is not enough. They need to get off 3rd party websites and talk to us here. Their whole customer service model is shady.
Or players need to realize that developers can't flick a magic balance switch and implement every single terrible idea that a bunch of amateurs floated in an online forum. Every action the development team has taken up to this point has showed that they listen to players (to a fault, some would argue). But unlike developers in Narnia, developers in the real world have to take the time to actually figure out which ideas are going to work in their game.
Also, I'm glad that you're really good at PvP. Most people aren't hardcore players, so I'd wager that the Justice System isn't going to be as imbalanced as you think.----
Murray?26 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »That's a pretty legit concern. But, let them roll out new features and see how they work before worrying too much about it. It may not be as much of an issue as you think. Plus, class balance is an ongoing thing that will probably never be perfect - they can't hold off on adding new content just because the balance isn't perfect.
The player base have suggested plenty of changes that would fix most issues. ZOS needs to get off their high horse and listen to their players. Listening to a "Select" few at guild summit who never seem to ask the right questions is not enough. They need to get off 3rd party websites and talk to us here. Their whole customer service model is shady.
Or players need to realize that developers can't flick a magic balance switch and implement every single terrible idea that a bunch of amateurs floated in an online forum. Every action the development team has taken up to this point has showed that they listen to players (to a fault, some would argue). But unlike developers in Narnia, developers in the real world have to take the time to actually figure out which ideas are going to work in their game.
Also, I'm glad that you're really good at PvP. Most people aren't hardcore players, so I'd wager that the Justice System isn't going to be as imbalanced as you think.
Amateurs? I've (and many others*) played games longer than most of this games Dev's have been alive.Edited by ExiledKhallisi on October 11, 2014 5:09PM>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War21 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭
This.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War2 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What ZOS should've done is give Enforcers and Criminals their own skills that only get used in the Justice System when it's Enforcer vs Criminal. Then our actual fighting skills wouldn't be an issue.3 -
Cazic✭✭✭✭✭Player type A will always be crying for this, and playing type B will always be crying for that. Class balance is ongoing, and I doubt there will be a time when 100% of the player base is happy. Point is, that shouldn't withhold releasing new content because of that.
Edit: typosEdited by Cazic on October 11, 2014 5:08PM7 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »That's a pretty legit concern. But, let them roll out new features and see how they work before worrying too much about it. It may not be as much of an issue as you think. Plus, class balance is an ongoing thing that will probably never be perfect - they can't hold off on adding new content just because the balance isn't perfect.
The player base have suggested plenty of changes that would fix most issues. ZOS needs to get off their high horse and listen to their players. Listening to a "Select" few at guild summit who never seem to ask the right questions is not enough. They need to get off 3rd party websites and talk to us here. Their whole customer service model is shady.
Or players need to realize that developers can't flick a magic balance switch and implement every single terrible idea that a bunch of amateurs floated in an online forum. Every action the development team has taken up to this point has showed that they listen to players (to a fault, some would argue). But unlike developers in Narnia, developers in the real world have to take the time to actually figure out which ideas are going to work in their game.
Also, I'm glad that you're really good at PvP. Most people aren't hardcore players, so I'd wager that the Justice System isn't going to be as imbalanced as you think.
Amateurs? I've played games longer than most of this games Dev's have been alive.
Are you aware of what the actual definitions of "amateur" and "professional" are? Or the difference between developing games and playing them?
Again, kudos to you. But your experience sitting in a chair and playing other people's creations isn't relevant here.----
Murray?24 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yeah like that. Or LOTRO's snowball fights. Except with a little more complexity.OrangeTheCat wrote: »
2 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭Player type A will always be crying for this, and playing type B will always be crying for that. Class balance is ongoing, and I doubt there will be a time when 100% of the player base is happy. Point is, that shouldn't withhold releasing new content because of that.
Edit: typos
Of course. But extreme imbalance? On my DK 1v1 Unless the other player is also a DK. I cant die.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War5 -
Cazic✭✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Player type A will always be crying for this, and playing type B will always be crying for that. Class balance is ongoing, and I doubt there will be a time when 100% of the player base is happy. Point is, that shouldn't withhold releasing new content because of that.
Edit: typos
Of course. But extreme imbalance? On my DK 1v1 Unless the other player is also a DK. I cant die.
Maybe that flaw will be emphasized enough by the Justice system that ZoS will be able to more clearly identify it and figure out how to correct it.4 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »That's a pretty legit concern. But, let them roll out new features and see how they work before worrying too much about it. It may not be as much of an issue as you think. Plus, class balance is an ongoing thing that will probably never be perfect - they can't hold off on adding new content just because the balance isn't perfect.
The player base have suggested plenty of changes that would fix most issues. ZOS needs to get off their high horse and listen to their players. Listening to a "Select" few at guild summit who never seem to ask the right questions is not enough. They need to get off 3rd party websites and talk to us here. Their whole customer service model is shady.
Or players need to realize that developers can't flick a magic balance switch and implement every single terrible idea that a bunch of amateurs floated in an online forum. Every action the development team has taken up to this point has showed that they listen to players (to a fault, some would argue). But unlike developers in Narnia, developers in the real world have to take the time to actually figure out which ideas are going to work in their game.
Also, I'm glad that you're really good at PvP. Most people aren't hardcore players, so I'd wager that the Justice System isn't going to be as imbalanced as you think.
Amateurs? I've played games longer than most of this games Dev's have been alive.
Are you aware of what the actual definitions of "amateur" and "professional" are? Or the difference between developing games and playing them?
Again, kudos to you. But your experience sitting in a chair and playing other people's creations isn't relevant here.
In American Football, Do you think the creators of the game have more insight and experience with the issues regarding the rules/regulations and ongoing conflicts within the game or the people actually playing the game for hours a day?>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War16 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »That's a pretty legit concern. But, let them roll out new features and see how they work before worrying too much about it. It may not be as much of an issue as you think. Plus, class balance is an ongoing thing that will probably never be perfect - they can't hold off on adding new content just because the balance isn't perfect.
The player base have suggested plenty of changes that would fix most issues. ZOS needs to get off their high horse and listen to their players. Listening to a "Select" few at guild summit who never seem to ask the right questions is not enough. They need to get off 3rd party websites and talk to us here. Their whole customer service model is shady.
Or players need to realize that developers can't flick a magic balance switch and implement every single terrible idea that a bunch of amateurs floated in an online forum. Every action the development team has taken up to this point has showed that they listen to players (to a fault, some would argue). But unlike developers in Narnia, developers in the real world have to take the time to actually figure out which ideas are going to work in their game.
Also, I'm glad that you're really good at PvP. Most people aren't hardcore players, so I'd wager that the Justice System isn't going to be as imbalanced as you think.
Amateurs? I've played games longer than most of this games Dev's have been alive.
Are you aware of what the actual definitions of "amateur" and "professional" are? Or the difference between developing games and playing them?
Again, kudos to you. But your experience sitting in a chair and playing other people's creations isn't relevant here.
In American Football, Do you think the creators of the game have more insight and experience with the issues regarding the rules/regulations and ongoing conflicts within the game or the people actually playing the game for hours a day?
Is football really being altered that much on a regular basis? More importantly, do you think the players set the rules?----
Murray?11 -
ShadoPanauin✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »With the overpowered ridiculousness of DK DPS/Tank hybrid builds. I get to go from fighting 1vs6-10 players in Cyrodil to destroying anyone who isnt a DK 1v1 in the Justice System as a guard.
BEFORE YOU IMPLEMENT THIS NEW PVP. BALANCE YOUR CLASSES.
Seriously, stop complaining about DKs. They're the only balanced class.
R.I.P. Million Reasons to Bomb, he triggered ZOS
Characters:
Million Reasons to Rename - AD Magicka Nightblade
Lúcio C - AD Stamina Sorcerer
slaughterfishlivesmatter - AD Stamina Nightblade
Million Reasons to Rake - DC Stamina Sorcerer
Shadopandauin - EP Magicka DK
Million Reasons to Lag - EP Magicka Sorcerer20 -
c0rp✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hope so. If this is what it takes to balance DKs then lets get on with it. The sooner the better.Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
Disable abilities while holding block.
Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.0 -
KhajitFurTrader✭✭✭✭✭
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This statement begs for the question: balanced against what? Themselves?ShadoPanauin wrote: »Seriously, stop complaining about DKs. They're the only balanced class.
6 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭KhajitFurTrader wrote: »
This statement begs for the question: balanced against what? Themselves?ShadoPanauin wrote: »Seriously, stop complaining about DKs. They're the only balanced class.
Pretty much , either go DK or go home :P.
And honestly , people should know this already , has always been this way , people had all the time since launch to change classes , by now everyone should be DK , then we wouldnt have more problems."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor4 -
Minsc✭✭✭You might need to change the title. I plan to play my NB as enforcer and my Templar as a ''thief'' so the assumptions you make for the ''roles'' that players /different classes will play, might be a little bit wrong
3 -
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What gives you the impression that thieves are going to suffer more? Do you think that there won't be very many DK thieves? If DKs are really so OP, then they'd also be very effective surviving as an outlaw as well.
My NB toons won't care about DK enforcers. They'll just not be seen committing crimes. And in the event a DK spots one of them, they won't need to fight. They'll just beat the DK to the hideout.Edited by DenverRalphy on October 11, 2014 7:40PM4 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭If memory serves, the Champion system should be well into it's roll-out by the time the Justice system is dropped. Which will make light armor tank's impossible.
So no more will you see, indestructible mana-batteries in skirts waving sticks and throwing DK abilities every which way.
The reign of the skirt and staff will be coming to an end with the institution of the Champion system.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT8 -
Tyr✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »If memory serves, the Champion system should be well into it's roll-out by the time the Justice system is dropped. Which will make light armor tank's impossible.
So no more will you see, indestructible mana-batteries in skirts waving sticks and throwing DK abilities every which way.
The reign of the skirt and staff will be coming to an end with the institution of the Champion system.
Yep. Justice system is coming after Champion System Phase 3, so the current balance for DK will be irrelevant.4 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »If memory serves, the Champion system should be well into it's roll-out by the time the Justice system is dropped. Which will make light armor tank's impossible.
So no more will you see, indestructible mana-batteries in skirts waving sticks and throwing DK abilities every which way.
The reign of the skirt and staff will be coming to an end with the institution of the Champion system.
Yep. Justice system is coming after Champion System Phase 3, so the current balance for DK will be irrelevant.
Amazing how many seams to be oblivious to this.
The game today is balanced enough. Just people who only can think in terms like "1v1" who don't get it.
I still wonder how long it takes for anyone who complains about balance in ESO to understand that spell crafting and all other character progression that's coming is where the power is.
And of course, the player themselves.
If you get owned in PvP....its you.
If you can't do the arena....its you.
Flame cloak on.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"11 -
DenverRalphy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »If memory serves, the Champion system should be well into it's roll-out by the time the Justice system is dropped. Which will make light armor tank's impossible.
So no more will you see, indestructible mana-batteries in skirts waving sticks and throwing DK abilities every which way.
The reign of the skirt and staff will be coming to an end with the institution of the Champion system.
Yep. Justice system is coming after Champion System Phase 3, so the current balance for DK will be irrelevant.
Not to mention, that balance issues, should they exist, is only applicable to class vs class. The OP is trying to argue class versus role.2 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭DenverRalphy wrote: »WraithAzraiel wrote: »If memory serves, the Champion system should be well into it's roll-out by the time the Justice system is dropped. Which will make light armor tank's impossible.
So no more will you see, indestructible mana-batteries in skirts waving sticks and throwing DK abilities every which way.
The reign of the skirt and staff will be coming to an end with the institution of the Champion system.
Yep. Justice system is coming after Champion System Phase 3, so the current balance for DK will be irrelevant.
Not to mention, that balance issues, should they exist, is only applicable to class vs class. The OP is trying to argue class versus role.
Interesting how some still does that?
It solves itself. Nice to see more people on ESO forums posting anything else then complaints :-)
I really wonder if Werewolves with 5 medium and 2 heavy, using 2H with offhand healing staff. Also using the Werewolf Set and stamina reducing effects....
Will not that be a new OP Vampire we had in June?
Sure, it takes some thinking and doing to play this. June OP vamp did not. One button.
The werewolf passive that your crit gets boosted even outside WW form?
Will be interesting to see. I am curious why pvpers have not mentioned this though?
Maybe the Thieves guild with poison abilities is the balance for WW.Edited by Cogo on October 11, 2014 8:36PMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"2 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭1. You're assuming you're going to find a thief. Being a security guard is boring.
2. You're assuming they're going to stick around and fight. From what I've read of the system, there is NO incentive for thieves to fight back.Achievements Suck2 -
Tamanous✭✭✭✭✭1. You're assuming you're going to find a thief. Being a security guard is boring.
2. You're assuming they're going to stick around and fight. From what I've read of the system, there is NO incentive for thieves to fight back.
Hopefully there will never be a reason to fight for outlaws. This also suggests that the VAST majority of outlaws will be NBs and Sorcs who actually have escape abilities. Might set up an interesting dichotomy between the class culture.0 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »KhajitFurTrader wrote: »
This statement begs for the question: balanced against what? Themselves?ShadoPanauin wrote: »Seriously, stop complaining about DKs. They're the only balanced class.
Pretty much , either go DK or go home :P.
And honestly , people should know this already , has always been this way , people had all the time since launch to change classes , by now everyone should be DK , then we wouldnt have more problems.
Nox, what should I do with you?
You changed my mind so many times on this forum. Pretty much outright 100% correct with most things you say.
Then a comment like this? Where does DK OP, come from?
My view in the current ESO:
Class you choose is just a template for your real class, which is the "build" you pick. Sure, class abilities matters but no class is better then another. They have 3 skill lines that only that class have.
That's it.
I am a DK, but don't really use that many DK abilities.
My power comes from game play.
The OP block is better then any DK abilities. Works on everything! Stacks with everything and with the changes lately, I never really go under 50% stamina while tanking places like Crypt of Hearts. Still Vet 7 btw.
360 block just can't be intended? And why the hell should block work on a fireball? That should go on spell resist ONLY I think.
"New" classes will pour out with all the coming content.
Already I tried to min/max at least 50 builds for a tank. Lots of choices, but since you cant use everything at once, it creates lots of "classes".
The base class isn't unimportant. But no more important then any skill tree.
The only difference is you have 3 skill trees, other plays don't have who isn't the same class as you. As you don't have theirs.
DK/templar/NB/Sorcerer is more about ultimates and synergies.
Which btw Matt Firor said in 2012 it would be.
Am I missing something? Why should everyone have a DK?Edited by Cogo on October 11, 2014 8:48PMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"6