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Justice system: Will your main choose outlaw or enforcer or neither?
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Skulclutter✭✭✭I won't be participating because I don't play PvP.I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.3 -
david271749✭✭✭✭✭@VariciteLogically, do you let the dregs of society run rampant in your society, or do you weed them out so that everyone else can live peacefully?
That's a good question for the guild leaders (not me) who have logged in to see a single player has wiped their bank and received no help getting those items back or punishing the player who took those items.
Or should we just be like: "Well, you're a criminal and murderer who ruins the lives of our innocent citizens and destroys their livelihoods, but I see you come from Daggerfall... so it's all good!"
Never said we should "just be like" that.
I'm not sure what logic you're following, but my logic tells me that criminals should be punished.
I'm pretty sure that the Nords I made in Skyrim weren't cut any slack when murdering people in town just for being from Skyrim originally.
Great point! I'm pretty sure there weren't any enemy redguards or bosmers running the same quests as you, but in a parallel universe only to later meet at a designated area where your universes conveniently intersected for combat.Edited by david271749 on October 10, 2014 3:55PM0 -
david271749✭✭✭✭✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »david271749 wrote: »Open world pvp against your own faction, but not others? Am I the only one here who sees how logically *** this is?
You confuse me, if I'm English and another Englishman steals my car I'm not allowed justice because we're on the same faction?
@CapuchinSeven
I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed justice. I'm saying if I'm from Japan, and I go to England for sightseeing will you be able to see me; or will we be in seperate dimensions and only meet up when we're at war?1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shove off copper! I will dwell in the seedy underbelly of Tamrieldavid271749 wrote: »@VariciteLogically, do you let the dregs of society run rampant in your society, or do you weed them out so that everyone else can live peacefully?
That's a good question for the guild leaders (not me) who have logged in to see a single player has wiped their bank and received no help getting those items back or punishing the player who took those items.
Or should we just be like: "Well, you're a criminal and murderer who ruins the lives of our innocent citizens and destroys their livelihoods, but I see you come from Daggerfall... so it's all good!"
Never said we should "just be like" that.
I'm not sure what logic you're following, but my logic tells me that criminals should be punished.
I'm pretty sure that the Nords I made in Skyrim weren't cut any slack when murdering people in town just for being from Skyrim originally.
Great point! I'm pretty sure there weren't any enemy redguards or bosmers running the same quests as you, but in a parallel universe only to later meet at a designated area where your universes conveniently intersected for combat.
Yeah, there is absolutely nothing in your post that has anything to do w/ the topic at hand...
Maybe I'm missing it. *checks again*
Nope, not a thing about the Justice system in there at all.
You seem to be upset about guild banks or phasing or something, I'm not really sure what exactly. Maybe you should make your own thread about that stuff?Edited by Varicite on October 10, 2014 4:09PM3 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No option for I haven't got a clue.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I do play PvP but I won't be participating for another reason (comment)Strickly talking my main, while he does lean lawful, he's not an authority type. I probably won't have him participate for RP reasons. But we'll have to wait and see how the system works out.
I have a few second tier alts that will try both sides though.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I do play PvP but I won't be participating for another reason (comment)Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.0 -
IrishGirlGamer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do play PvP but I won't be participating for another reason (comment)I'm curious. How does one know a character has stolen something? I mean, really?
I want this to work as I think it would add a great dimension to the game, but if I walk into a tavern and steal a candlestick, who do you know I stole it? If you didn't see me?
Because having an annoying flag in some neon yellow color (Candlestick thief right here!!) would be something less than immersive.Valar Morghulis.
Someday I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull. Arya Stark
You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well. Sansa Stark
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. Desmond Tutu0 -
MikeBob✭✭✭I won't be participating because I don't play PvP.As a pretty hard and fast rule, I don't engage in pvp content - ever.
But depending on how well the Justice System is integrated with the rest of the game (and how smoothly its implementation goes) - I'm going to reserve the right to change my mind about my participation.
So if all goes well, ESO's Justice System actually has the potential of making a pvper out of me.
On the other hand - if the Justice System turns out to be crappy (bug-ridden, easily exploitable, lots of griefing going on, etc) - it'll probably wind up as just another 'nail in the coffin' for me (one of few remaining, actually).
Assuming I decide to participate, my Imperial DK will be an enforcer - but I have a pair of NB's in the wings, however (an Argonian and a Bosner) that I'd almost certainly play as outlaws - so technically, I suppose my response to the poll question would actually be: "Neither or Both. We'll see."1 -
rotiferuk✭✭✭I do play PvP but I won't be participating for another reason (comment)Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.
NPC's are incapable of griefing. Human players are not. IMHO many people will use the Justice System as a way of griefing. Plus, I doubt they will be satisfied and will want more. There will be mission creep.EU Server.3 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.
NPC's are incapable of griefing. Human players are not. IMHO many people will use the Justice System as a way of griefing. Plus, I doubt they will be satisfied and will want more. There will be mission creep.
People grief in PVE all the time, ever been kicked from a dungeon because someone wanted to invite someone from the guild, because your DPS was low or just because you had a different opinion?
This is griefing and it is very common in MMOs. That whole ... of the poor and innocent PVE player is silly as those people can be the worst in the whole game.
I seldom met someone in PVP who was like that and you also need to understand that someone who kills you does not automatically become a griefer.4 -
Kewljag_66_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I do play PvP but I won't be participating for another reason (comment)Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.
NPC's are incapable of griefing. Human players are not. IMHO many people will use the Justice System as a way of griefing. Plus, I doubt they will be satisfied and will want more. There will be mission creep.
In other games with open world pvp yes you can follow someone and keep killing them while they are trying to do something. But this isn't that type of game.
if you die in Cyrodiil to an enemy its because of the objectives and goals of owning territory or where you were. and that person who killed you will not even know who you were and even notice you again or probably even see you again any time soon.
For The justice system you have to be doing something "bad" to be attacked. So if you are killed by an enforcer you deserve it. And if you choose to do something "bad" again you deserve to keep being attacked. Its your choice.0 -
DaniAngione✭✭✭✭✭Die criminal scum! I will be one of Tamriel's noble enforcers.As long as I can loose an arrow to the air and scream "WINDHELM POLICE, DROP THE STAFF! NOW!"....2 -
MikeBob✭✭✭I won't be participating because I don't play PvP.
(...)
ever been kicked from a dungeon because someone wanted to invite someone from the guild, because your DPS was low or just because you had a different opinion?
This is griefing and it is very common in MMOs.
(...)
It may be common - and it's very definitely obnoxious, rude, and elitist behavior - but it isn't griefing.
From Wikipedia:
"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways. A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users (...)"
I don't see PvE griefing going on in ESO at all.
In fact, I'm not sure it's even possible for PvE players to grief one another in ESO.
Do you have any other examples to share?
(edited due to broken linkage!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
Edited by MikeBob on October 10, 2014 6:46PM3 -
rotiferuk✭✭✭I do play PvP but I won't be participating for another reason (comment)Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.
NPC's are incapable of griefing. Human players are not. IMHO many people will use the Justice System as a way of griefing. Plus, I doubt they will be satisfied and will want more. There will be mission creep.
People grief in PVE all the time, ever been kicked from a dungeon because someone wanted to invite someone from the guild, because your DPS was low or just because you had a different opinion?
This is griefing and it is very common in MMOs. That whole ... of the poor and innocent PVE player is silly as those people can be the worst in the whole game.
I seldom met someone in PVP who was like that and you also need to understand that someone who kills you does not automatically become a griefer.
1) I do not have any interest in doing dungeons. However I have met one or two "group leaders" in PvP who were stupid. In those cases I left the group of my own accord.
2) IMHO the Justice System has a great potential to cause grief for PvE players not taking part. In PvE people role play, read books, enjoy the scenery, purchase items, etc. Then along comes zergs of player vigilantes sorry peace keepers and player "thieves". Its bad enough when random players test their abilities. Can you imagine what it is going to be like with large groups fighting?Edited by rotiferuk on October 10, 2014 7:04PMEU Server.2 -
rotiferuk✭✭✭I do play PvP but I won't be participating for another reason (comment)Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.
NPC's are incapable of griefing. Human players are not. IMHO many people will use the Justice System as a way of griefing. Plus, I doubt they will be satisfied and will want more. There will be mission creep.
In other games with open world pvp yes you can follow someone and keep killing them while they are trying to do something. But this isn't that type of game.
if you die in Cyrodiil to an enemy its because of the objectives and goals of owning territory or where you were. and that person who killed you will not even know who you were and even notice you again or probably even see you again any time soon.
For The justice system you have to be doing something "bad" to be attacked. So if you are killed by an enforcer you deserve it. And if you choose to do something "bad" again you deserve to keep being attacked. Its your choice.
In PvE people role play, read books, enjoy the scenery, purchase items, etc. Then along comes zergs of player vigilantes sorry peace keepers and player "thieves". Its bad enough when random players test their abilities. Can you imagine what it is going to be like with large groups fighting? This is the type of griefing I am talking about.
EU Server.0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shove off copper! I will dwell in the seedy underbelly of TamrielKewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.
NPC's are incapable of griefing. Human players are not. IMHO many people will use the Justice System as a way of griefing. Plus, I doubt they will be satisfied and will want more. There will be mission creep.
In other games with open world pvp yes you can follow someone and keep killing them while they are trying to do something. But this isn't that type of game.
if you die in Cyrodiil to an enemy its because of the objectives and goals of owning territory or where you were. and that person who killed you will not even know who you were and even notice you again or probably even see you again any time soon.
For The justice system you have to be doing something "bad" to be attacked. So if you are killed by an enforcer you deserve it. And if you choose to do something "bad" again you deserve to keep being attacked. Its your choice.
In PvE people role play, read books, enjoy the scenery, purchase items, etc. Then along comes zergs of player vigilantes sorry peace keepers and player "thieves". Its bad enough when random players test their abilities. Can you imagine what it is going to be like with large groups fighting? This is the type of griefing I am talking about.
As a RPer myself, I don't really consider people using their abilities in town to be even remotely close to "griefing".
Actively trying to disrupt your session, making fun of you, generally being a jerk, etc. These are things that I'd consider to be griefing.
A guy using his abilities nearby is not griefing; it's a guy using his abilities nearby.
This just seems to be a paper-thin argument to me.
/shrug4 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shove off copper! I will dwell in the seedy underbelly of TamrielSo we will have to endure zerg fests of impulse spamming, VR14 DK's / Sorcerors in PvE as well as PvP? Marvellous, I can hardly wait..............................NOT.
This is the first thing I am going to try. I may even start a guild that does this. Why? Because PVP has no place in pve zones and I want to show why.ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)4 -
rotiferuk✭✭✭I do play PvP but I won't be participating for another reason (comment)Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.
NPC's are incapable of griefing. Human players are not. IMHO many people will use the Justice System as a way of griefing. Plus, I doubt they will be satisfied and will want more. There will be mission creep.
In other games with open world pvp yes you can follow someone and keep killing them while they are trying to do something. But this isn't that type of game.
if you die in Cyrodiil to an enemy its because of the objectives and goals of owning territory or where you were. and that person who killed you will not even know who you were and even notice you again or probably even see you again any time soon.
For The justice system you have to be doing something "bad" to be attacked. So if you are killed by an enforcer you deserve it. And if you choose to do something "bad" again you deserve to keep being attacked. Its your choice.
In PvE people role play, read books, enjoy the scenery, purchase items, etc. Then along comes zergs of player vigilantes sorry peace keepers and player "thieves". Its bad enough when random players test their abilities. Can you imagine what it is going to be like with large groups fighting? This is the type of griefing I am talking about.
As a RPer myself, I don't really consider people using their abilities in town to be even remotely close to "griefing".
Actively trying to disrupt your session, making fun of you, generally being a jerk, etc. These are things that I'd consider to be griefing.
A guy using his abilities nearby is not griefing; it's a guy using his abilities nearby.
This just seems to be a paper-thin argument to me.
/shrug
/agree to differEU Server.1 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shove off copper! I will dwell in the seedy underbelly of TamrielGlad to see that the ratio of enforcers to outlaws is about even. Hope it pans out that way in-game.1 -
david271749✭✭✭✭✭david271749 wrote: »@VariciteLogically, do you let the dregs of society run rampant in your society, or do you weed them out so that everyone else can live peacefully?
That's a good question for the guild leaders (not me) who have logged in to see a single player has wiped their bank and received no help getting those items back or punishing the player who took those items.
Or should we just be like: "Well, you're a criminal and murderer who ruins the lives of our innocent citizens and destroys their livelihoods, but I see you come from Daggerfall... so it's all good!"
Never said we should "just be like" that.
I'm not sure what logic you're following, but my logic tells me that criminals should be punished.
I'm pretty sure that the Nords I made in Skyrim weren't cut any slack when murdering people in town just for being from Skyrim originally.
Great point! I'm pretty sure there weren't any enemy redguards or bosmers running the same quests as you, but in a parallel universe only to later meet at a designated area where your universes conveniently intersected for combat.
Yeah, there is absolutely nothing in your post that has anything to do w/ the topic at hand...
Maybe I'm missing it. *checks again*
Nope, not a thing about the Justice system in there at all.
You seem to be upset about guild banks or phasing or something, I'm not really sure what exactly. Maybe you should make your own thread about that stuff?
I use your own argument against you, and all you can do is pretend to ignore my original point, and ask me to go to another thread to prevent you from further embarrassment? Fair enough.
Edited by david271749 on October 10, 2014 9:20PM0 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do play PvP but I won't be participating for another reason (comment)Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.
NPC's are incapable of griefing. Human players are not. IMHO many people will use the Justice System as a way of griefing. Plus, I doubt they will be satisfied and will want more. There will be mission creep.
In other games with open world pvp yes you can follow someone and keep killing them while they are trying to do something. But this isn't that type of game.
if you die in Cyrodiil to an enemy its because of the objectives and goals of owning territory or where you were. and that person who killed you will not even know who you were and even notice you again or probably even see you again any time soon.
For The justice system you have to be doing something "bad" to be attacked. So if you are killed by an enforcer you deserve it. And if you choose to do something "bad" again you deserve to keep being attacked. Its your choice.
In PvE people role play, read books, enjoy the scenery, purchase items, etc. Then along comes zergs of player vigilantes sorry peace keepers and player "thieves". Its bad enough when random players test their abilities. Can you imagine what it is going to be like with large groups fighting? This is the type of griefing I am talking about.
As a RPer myself, I don't really consider people using their abilities in town to be even remotely close to "griefing".
Actively trying to disrupt your session, making fun of you, generally being a jerk, etc. These are things that I'd consider to be griefing.
A guy using his abilities nearby is not griefing; it's a guy using his abilities nearby.
This just seems to be a paper-thin argument to me.
/shrug
Heh is that so :P?
I wonder , do people have bad memories or maybe they are in denial?
Oh well , guess it falls to some who chose not to forget to speak up.
Lets go back just a bit , to the dye system update.
At which point people would literally keep spamming skills over the stations so others couldnt actually dye their armor right.
There was nothing to be gained from this , people actually went out of their way just to grief others over a dye system without ever getting nothing out of this other than the pleasure of being a jerk. :P .
Hehe , there is a good chance there will be more than enough grief when this system arrives people , maybe the system wont be at fault , but it will allow players to use it in such way.
There is a chance ofc this time zen will catch the issue before it gets to the live server , but since they are really bad at this i wouldnt count on it."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor2 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shove off copper! I will dwell in the seedy underbelly of TamrielNox_Aeterna wrote: »Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.
NPC's are incapable of griefing. Human players are not. IMHO many people will use the Justice System as a way of griefing. Plus, I doubt they will be satisfied and will want more. There will be mission creep.
In other games with open world pvp yes you can follow someone and keep killing them while they are trying to do something. But this isn't that type of game.
if you die in Cyrodiil to an enemy its because of the objectives and goals of owning territory or where you were. and that person who killed you will not even know who you were and even notice you again or probably even see you again any time soon.
For The justice system you have to be doing something "bad" to be attacked. So if you are killed by an enforcer you deserve it. And if you choose to do something "bad" again you deserve to keep being attacked. Its your choice.
In PvE people role play, read books, enjoy the scenery, purchase items, etc. Then along comes zergs of player vigilantes sorry peace keepers and player "thieves". Its bad enough when random players test their abilities. Can you imagine what it is going to be like with large groups fighting? This is the type of griefing I am talking about.
As a RPer myself, I don't really consider people using their abilities in town to be even remotely close to "griefing".
Actively trying to disrupt your session, making fun of you, generally being a jerk, etc. These are things that I'd consider to be griefing.
A guy using his abilities nearby is not griefing; it's a guy using his abilities nearby.
This just seems to be a paper-thin argument to me.
/shrug
Heh is that so :P?
I wonder , do people have bad memories or maybe they are in denial?
Oh well , guess it falls to some who chose not to forget to speak up.
Lets go back just a bit , to the dye system update.
At which point people would literally keep spamming skills over the stations so others couldnt actually dye their armor right.
There was nothing to be gained from this , people actually went out of their way just to grief others over a dye system without ever getting nothing out of this other than the pleasure of being a jerk. :P .
Hehe , there is a good chance there will be more than enough grief when this system arrives people , maybe the system wont be at fault , but it will allow players to use it in such way.
There is a chance ofc this time zen will catch the issue before it gets to the live server , but since they are really bad at this i wouldnt count on it.
If someone comes up and starts following you around while spamming skills on top of you, sure, I'd call that griefing.
But that's not what was being described in the post I quoted. They were angry that players would be attacking each other in the cities, which isn't at all people harassing that poster personally.
What you're describing and what they described are two completely different things.
If you mean that other players will somehow be able to kill you, that's not really possible unless you don the Enforcer tabard or incur an Outlaw bounty, so that seems like a non-issue. NPCs will be individually phased, so players using the Justice system won't be interfering w/ your bank npc or questgivers, etc.
Random crimes and skirmishes taking place in the streets while I hang out at the tavern or something doesn't really strike me as something that I'd consider as harassment against me.
Players actively trying to disrupt my gameplay by following me around and spamming skills on top of me, the equivalent of what went on at the dye stations early on... that is something I'd consider as harassment.
I'm not sure why it's difficult to see the difference in these actions. It's all about intent.Edited by Varicite on October 10, 2014 9:50PM3 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
(...)
ever been kicked from a dungeon because someone wanted to invite someone from the guild, because your DPS was low or just because you had a different opinion?
This is griefing and it is very common in MMOs.
(...)
It may be common - and it's very definitely obnoxious, rude, and elitist behavior - but it isn't griefing.
From Wikipedia:
"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways. A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users (...)"
I don't see PvE griefing going on in ESO at all.
So if someone uses the kick function to eliminate someone from the group so that his or her whole work is now pointless as he or she cant finish the dungeon anymore its fine?
People kick people randomly at the end of a dungeon for a guild member so he or she can get the achievement, specific loot or a quest.
If someone kicks another player for disagreeing with him, for dealing less damage etc. then this is also abusing a button that was once designed to remove players that are rude / afk.
People who do use the kick function int hat way to that primarily to harass someone else, just like your description of griefing says.
If however someone does pvp and you enable it and he then kills you, then why is he griefing you?
Yes he might be happy to kill you but you enabled the feature for yourself, there is no griefing involved at all.
I am a strong pve player since years at MMOs and only do PVP casually and I see a lot of abuse in pve, more than in PVP and I even think that griefing isn't possible at all in pvp unless someone does corpse camp you. In the end everyone who enters a battleground, pvp zone or becomes a guard / thief does this on his own free will and by doing so being killed is a possibility and not a grief.Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »Skulclutter wrote: »I have absolutely no interest in PVP of any form, so I'm out.
Whats the difference between an AI controlled enemy player and a human controlled enemy player? It shouldn't matter what is controlling it. It is a threat to you eigther way and the design of the game. yes a human opponent is smarter and harder to figure out, but thats the challenge.
NPC's are incapable of griefing. Human players are not. IMHO many people will use the Justice System as a way of griefing. Plus, I doubt they will be satisfied and will want more. There will be mission creep.
People grief in PVE all the time, ever been kicked from a dungeon because someone wanted to invite someone from the guild, because your DPS was low or just because you had a different opinion?
This is griefing and it is very common in MMOs. That whole ... of the poor and innocent PVE player is silly as those people can be the worst in the whole game.
I seldom met someone in PVP who was like that and you also need to understand that someone who kills you does not automatically become a griefer.
2) IMHO the Justice System has a great potential to cause grief for PvE players not taking part. In PvE people role play, read books, enjoy the scenery, purchase items, etc. Then along comes zergs of player vigilantes sorry peace keepers and player "thieves". Its bad enough when random players test their abilities. Can you imagine what it is going to be like with large groups fighting?
Why do you care what others do? I don't really understand the reasoning behind your argument. Unless you enable pvp and become a potential target, nobody will be able to touch you.
Whatever they do wont affect you in the slightest. You can read your books, enjoy the scenery or quest just like you do now.
I also agree with what someone said earlier, casting spells is not griefing. I tend to summon my pets tons of times in towns as they tend to bug out. I also test spells at times, give others a buff etc.
To me a grief is only something that ruins my own experience, my fun and this can only happen as I described above and this exclusively happens in pve and there especially in raid or dungeon content where people can ruin your progress by just insulting / kicking you from groups.
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭david271749 wrote: »Open world pvp against your own faction, but not others? Am I the only one here who sees how logically *** this is?
They are thieves, stealing from your faction. Outlaws, bandits, ne'er do wells.
Logically, do you let the dregs of society run rampant in your society, or do you weed them out so that everyone else can live peacefully?
Just because they live in your faction's lands does not mean they are on your side.
Or should we just be like: "Well, you're a criminal and murderer who ruins the lives of our innocent citizens and destroys their livelihoods, but I see you come from Daggerfall... so it's all good!"
...
It's too bad our home faction's lands are basically just lowbie zones.
Would love to play an Enforcer for the Covenant maps, then go on my crime sprees through Dominion and Pact territories.
Don't really want to spend my time facing off against lowbies though, so that impacts available options.
Too bad Dominion and Pact Enforcer players couldn't respond to such crime sprees.
Edited by Samadhi on October 10, 2014 9:44PM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shove off copper! I will dwell in the seedy underbelly of Tamrieldavid271749 wrote: »david271749 wrote: »@VariciteLogically, do you let the dregs of society run rampant in your society, or do you weed them out so that everyone else can live peacefully?
That's a good question for the guild leaders (not me) who have logged in to see a single player has wiped their bank and received no help getting those items back or punishing the player who took those items.
Or should we just be like: "Well, you're a criminal and murderer who ruins the lives of our innocent citizens and destroys their livelihoods, but I see you come from Daggerfall... so it's all good!"
Never said we should "just be like" that.
I'm not sure what logic you're following, but my logic tells me that criminals should be punished.
I'm pretty sure that the Nords I made in Skyrim weren't cut any slack when murdering people in town just for being from Skyrim originally.
Great point! I'm pretty sure there weren't any enemy redguards or bosmers running the same quests as you, but in a parallel universe only to later meet at a designated area where your universes conveniently intersected for combat.
Yeah, there is absolutely nothing in your post that has anything to do w/ the topic at hand...
Maybe I'm missing it. *checks again*
Nope, not a thing about the Justice system in there at all.
You seem to be upset about guild banks or phasing or something, I'm not really sure what exactly. Maybe you should make your own thread about that stuff?
I use your own argument against you, and all you can do is pretend to ignore my original point, and ask me to go to another thread to prevent you from further embarrassment? Fair enough.
Do you always make a habit of making up random arguments and then debating against them? Seems a bit silly, if you ask me.
All that I said was that I don't feel that players attacking one another in the cities is something that I'd justifiably call griefing, as I don't feel those players are purposely doing anything to harass you personally. They just happen to be in the same city that you are.
Your retort was a mix of complaints about guild bank issues, zone phasing, and what seems like a general complaint about having others in the game at all. I'm not sure what part of any of that you feel is a reply to anything that I said.
I definitely have no idea what part of your post you feel is using my argument against me, as none of it seems to be even remotely relevant to what we were discussing.3 -
david271749✭✭✭✭✭david271749 wrote: »david271749 wrote: »@VariciteLogically, do you let the dregs of society run rampant in your society, or do you weed them out so that everyone else can live peacefully?
That's a good question for the guild leaders (not me) who have logged in to see a single player has wiped their bank and received no help getting those items back or punishing the player who took those items.
Or should we just be like: "Well, you're a criminal and murderer who ruins the lives of our innocent citizens and destroys their livelihoods, but I see you come from Daggerfall... so it's all good!"
Never said we should "just be like" that.
I'm not sure what logic you're following, but my logic tells me that criminals should be punished.
I'm pretty sure that the Nords I made in Skyrim weren't cut any slack when murdering people in town just for being from Skyrim originally.
Great point! I'm pretty sure there weren't any enemy redguards or bosmers running the same quests as you, but in a parallel universe only to later meet at a designated area where your universes conveniently intersected for combat.
Yeah, there is absolutely nothing in your post that has anything to do w/ the topic at hand...
Maybe I'm missing it. *checks again*
Nope, not a thing about the Justice system in there at all.
You seem to be upset about guild banks or phasing or something, I'm not really sure what exactly. Maybe you should make your own thread about that stuff?
I use your own argument against you, and all you can do is pretend to ignore my original point, and ask me to go to another thread to prevent you from further embarrassment? Fair enough.
Do you always make a habit of making up random arguments and then debating against them? Seems a bit silly, if you ask me.
All that I said was that I don't feel that players attacking one another in the cities is something that I'd justifiably call griefing, as I don't feel those players are purposely doing anything to harass you personally. They just happen to be in the same city that you are.
Your retort was a mix of complaints about guild bank issues, zone phasing, and what seems like a general complaint about having others in the game at all. I'm not sure what part of any of that you feel is a reply to anything that I said.
I definitely have no idea what part of your post you feel is using my argument against me, as none of it seems to be even remotely relevant to what we were discussing.
Guees you're easy to forget and you're confusing me with someone else who disagrees with you. I'm not going to recap an argument for someone who has no clue what's going. All you have to do is look at quotes and go back a page. Nice effort though.0 -
Shove off copper! I will dwell in the seedy underbelly of TamrielI'm going to create a nightblade specifically for this and then get vamp as well and go very dark. Maybe my templar can be an agent of the light, but who wants to be the good guy really? I'm going to also join the dark brotherhood jst as soon as they send me my invite!
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