General Confusion about Veteran Rank and Champion System.

Nazon_Katts

oren74 wrote: »

adean27 wrote: »

@Qyrk I can answer this one. It's based on overall XP generated by an account. So for instance, if you had 4 VR 14 characters with a combined XP of 2 million, and I had 1 character with a total XP of 4 million, I would have more Champion points than you.

They are tracking all XP that is gained.

This is the million dollar answer that is needed. Please comment on this Zos.

Get grinding folks! If you don't, you'll eat dust!

Gilvoth

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

adean27 wrote: »

@Qyrk I can answer this one. It's based on overall XP generated by an account. So for instance, if you had 4 VR 14 characters with a combined XP of 2 million, and I had 1 character with a total XP of 4 million, I would have more Champion points than you.

They are tracking all XP that is gained.

This is the million dollar answer that is needed. Please comment on this Zos.

Get grinding folks! If you don't, you'll eat dust!

for how long? when is patch 5 supose to be live and we will see these xp points and stuff?

Nazon_Katts

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

adean27 wrote: »

@Qyrk I can answer this one. It's based on overall XP generated by an account. So for instance, if you had 4 VR 14 characters with a combined XP of 2 million, and I had 1 character with a total XP of 4 million, I would have more Champion points than you.

They are tracking all XP that is gained.

This is the million dollar answer that is needed. Please comment on this Zos.

Get grinding folks! If you don't, you'll eat dust!

for how long? when is patch 5 supose to be live and we will see these xp points and stuff?

Till you have 8 max VR characters. So start right away and don't stop before you're done.

Kego

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Get grinding folks! If you don't, you'll eat dust!

Not really.
It will be easy to get the f.e.: 3% DMG increases or Armor increases. Additional points will decrease in it's power provided.

So if I, once again f.e spend 1 Point for 3% Fire DMG and you 11 Points for 4% Fire DMG (cause any more point only gives 0.1% Bonus) will that make you much more powerful against me?

Rune_Relic

oren74 wrote: »

adean27 wrote: »

@Qyrk I can answer this one. It's based on overall XP generated by an account. So for instance, if you had 4 VR 14 characters with a combined XP of 2 million, and I had 1 character with a total XP of 4 million, I would have more Champion points than you.

They are tracking all XP that is gained.

This is the million dollar answer that is needed. Please comment on this Zos.

they already commented at the summit and the audio of that meeting is available online.

They will tot up the total XP of all of your Vet (+50) level characters. (Your xp is still accumulating in vet ranks and beyond Vet 14 even if you don't see it on the client, they do on the server).

This account wide "combined XP" will be used for the champion system.
So someone who has played 20 hours at v14 might have more xp then someone who has 4x v14 toons with 2 hours each.

Its purely based on TOTAL combined XP of your 50+ toons.

Rune_Relic

Kego wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Get grinding folks! If you don't, you'll eat dust!

Not really.
It will be easy to get the f.e.: 3% DMG increases or Armor increases. Additional points will decrease in it's power provided.

So if I, once again f.e spend 1 Point for 3% Fire DMG and you 11 Points for 4% Fire DMG (cause any more point only gives 0.1% Bonus) will that make you much more powerful against me?

Exactly.... grind away until your fingers bleed The 5% power advantage you can never reach does not bother me. The increased tactical abilities will make a difference...but they are situational and I too will get such feats (if I actually want them) quite easily.

I see this as more a question of not investing points into something you don't want. ie sacrificing stuff and individuality.

Nazon_Katts

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Kego wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Get grinding folks! If you don't, you'll eat dust!

Not really.
It will be easy to get the f.e.: 3% DMG increases or Armor increases. Additional points will decrease in it's power provided.

So if I, once again f.e spend 1 Point for 3% Fire DMG and you 11 Points for 4% Fire DMG (cause any more point only gives 0.1% Bonus) will that make you much more powerful against me?

Exactly.... grind away until your fingers bleed The 5% power advantage you can never reach does not bother me. The increased tactical abilities will make a difference...but they are situational and I too will get such feats (if I actually want them) quite easily.

I see this as more a question of not investing points into something you don't want. ie sacrificing stuff and individuality.

Maybe not, but if I do that with every possible passive, I will have a 1% advantage in all fields. That's going to be noticeable. And considering how easy it is to achieve, why pass up on it?

And I believe 8 max VR characters will have a considerable amount more of CP to spend than just that. The pure VP->XP->CP conversion heavily incentivizes the grind and bypassing content.

Kego

Only if every XP gets transfered to CPs.
I believe that ZOS will cap the maximum CP that you can gain through the initial transfer.

Nazon_Katts

Yep, but when they're saying most won't reach it, it kinda transpires that it's gotta be rather high and tough to reach. No matter how you turn it, it still promotes the grind. It will leave us in the exact same situation we're in now; rush'n'grind to cap and 50+ content is only being played at max, if at all.

I don't see that changing much for the positive of the game and wonder why they would go through all the hassle, if almost everything meta stays the same, essentially. It's a better reward structure, but it won't change how the game is played.

Rewards for completing content are lacking and CS could finally help with alleviating that, but if it remains purely XP based, nothing will have changed, really. I don't want the grind to be removed nor nerfed, but playing content being brought up on par with it.

As with anything in this game, we need options for effectively playing the game. Currently there's just one overly efficient one and not much points in another direction. (Dungeon Dailies are a hint, but why just dailies?) Otherwise this game will just lose depth and with it players.

deathmasterl_ESO

I see it as a way better system then what we have with the current Veteran System.

The only question I have left is how will all the gear be changed once the Veteran System is gone. Clearly we're all going to be 50+ now when everything changes, but what happens to Voidstone, Galatite, etc gear?

I know it will have to do with the new Season Gear, but that brings up even more questions... probably thinking too far ahead but I guess the main thing is if I should bother working on a vr14 set of gear or not. My only fear is that it will be completely worthless once the new changes come and that I'll have wasted all the material and my time working for it.

On another note over 3.4k Views 0.o I have never had a discussion I've ever posted anywhere before have this many views.

Rune_Relic

deathmasterl_ESO wrote: »

I see it as a way better system then what we have with the current Veteran System.

The only question I have left is how will all the gear be changed once the Veteran System is gone. Clearly we're all going to be 50+ now when everything changes, but what happens to Voidstone, Galatite, etc gear?

I know it will have to do with the new Season Gear, but that brings up even more questions... probably thinking too far ahead but I guess the main thing is if I should bother working on a vr14 set of gear or not. My only fear is that it will be completely worthless once the new changes come and that I'll have wasted all the material and my time working for it.

On another note over 3.4k Views 0.o I have never had a discussion I've ever posted anywhere before have this many views.

Actually been spending all week going over that myself.

I can see diminishing returns with gear level BUT...epic,legendary ect will still give you large jumps [even if they themselves also diminish with level].
I was actually wondering if they would regrade the ingots and materials so the likes of voidstone you wouldn't be able to craft until almost max level.

That way even if voidstone didn't really give you much power benefit over ebony....the grinders still get their vanity armour and such. I think this gives a fair trade for grinders vs casuals. Grinders get rare bling gear + tiny bump. Casuals don't have to worry about being overpowered.

How such ties in with season gear I have no idea other than vet levels. When vet levels go..... shrugs. Season gear wont be crafted gear so I guess trying to link them is pointless anyway.

I guess we will see.

rootimus

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

In the meantime, we are making Veteran Ranks earned by XP and reducing the overall time it takes to get a Veteran Rank. We are also rewarding an Attribute Point and a Skill Point each time you reach a Veteran Rank.

Is this mis-worded, or is there a bug that's causing my vet characters not to have acquired attribute and skill points?

Nazon_Katts

@rootimus that's part of the revamp and not live yet. 'We are making' indicates a future event currently in the works and not finished yet.

rootimus

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

@rootimus that's part of the revamp and not live yet. 'We are making' indicates a future event currently in the works and not finished yet.

And "in the meantime" indicates a current event, hence the confusion.

KenjiJU

Wondering about the skill point addition. They're going to add points to our current VR, but then remove VRs at a later time. So would players who hit 50 later on just be awarded a chunk of Attrib and SPs? Seems weird. Maybe added through passives with enough CPs spent?

deathmasterl_ESO

Yeah I'm thinking the additional Skill Points and Attribute points will be added with how many Champion Points you've earned after the change when it goes to 50+ Content. Now would that be on a Per Character Basis, or will that be on an Account Wide Basis no idea, I would assume as soon as one character has earned so many that all the characters would automatically get the 14 Additional Skill Points, but that might be wishful thinking.

Either Way I'm excited to have more Points then I really need, but I'll look forward to them either way.

AngryNord

I wonder if mobs will be "nerfed" to level 50, or if we'll end up with Lvl 50 character fighting Vet-level mobs...

Cogo

This is not possible! How many people can be immune to reading?

Every question about the champion system that everyone asks here, is answered in the devs post here.
Along with many of Paul Sage's statements from June too the guild summit a few days ago.

The confusion is created by several users saying the wrong things, or only say what they want it to be.

Please be more clear when anyone post their view or when they post true facts from Zenimax personnel.

The reason for Champion system is to always improve and progress your character however you want.
Since there is no level raise, balance between Champions got a lot of factors. Similar how some Vet 14 are better then other Vet14 with the same gear........

Example:
Some Vet 4-6 groups can do Crypt of Heart with ease.
Some Vet 14 players still have not been able to do Crypt of Hearts, or only could do it when the group was Vet 14, all geared in legendary or purple.

The questions in this thread kinda explains why so few still think Heavy armor is crap? Or stamina builds are bad. (They where 3 MONTHS ago)

Source for this post
ZOS_MariaAliprando reply in this thread

How will the current system change when the Champion System gets introduced?

The Champion System will introduce new past lvl 50 progression for your account where previously there was only an increase in Veteran Ranks and Attributes. The Champion System allows you spend points in the constellations to earn powerful passives such as giving your bash a chance to snare targets, reduce the amount of damage you take from flames or leech health on critical strikes.

Every vet will be the same lvl 50 in Patch 1.6 when Champion system is done. They are working on this part.
Patch 1.5 is phase 2 of the champion system: You get exp instead of Veteran points. You gain EXP the same way as level 1-50. A lot more ways to get exp.

Veteran characters are level 50, that can progress with Veteran ranks which raise stats, allow specific gear to be used etc. A Vet 1 with the same stats as a vet 14 will be the exact same character in numbers.

Note total stats. Not same gear, but same stats.

A level 45 and level 46 with the same stats will not be equal. Level 46 have the level advantage. Vet 1 - Vet 2 have no level advantage. They have Rank advantage. Very different when calculating the base for all combat, skills, effects etc.

The Veteran progress system we have right now, is the same base as the new PvP ranks will be. Not level based, but you need PvP Veteran "units" that you earn, just like Veteran points, in specific ways. PvP ranks will give certain progress bonus and allow each rank to use specific things.

What happens to the Veteran Ranks we currently have VR1-12?

We want to remove the Veteran Ranks from the game and rely on the more active progression provided by the Champion System. However, when we release the Champion System we will continue to maintain Veteran Ranks. We have several options as to how we will remove Veteran Ranks but all of them require time and careful planning. In the meantime, we are making Veteran Ranks earned by XP and reducing the overall time it takes to get a Veteran Rank. We are also rewarding an Attribute Point and a Skill Point each time you reach a Veteran Rank.

In patch 1.5 all veteran players gets 1 skill point per rank. All Vet players will gain a skill point when they get a new rank. This stops at Vet 14 and is NEW.

What happens to the Skill Points from VR1-12? Are they carried over to the CS instead?

The Skill Points we reward will not be removed from you! You will continue to have the same amount of Skill Points you do now. The Champion System does not reward any Skill Points, only gaining Veteran Ranks does.
When we take out Veteran Ranks we will make sure that anyone that didn't make it max Veteran Rank will still rewarded with those Skill Points.

Veteran system does not give a skill point today. It will in patch 1.5.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play!
We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14.

When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap.

In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

AFTER 1.5 is live
- All Veteran rank players earns exp and not veteran points
Since you earn more then 3 times as much exp by just earning exp and not veteran points, it gets easier. But if you only kill mobs and do quests, which gives veteran points, you do not get "more".

To get more exp, simply do all the 9 things (I can count off my head) to get exp.
There even is a exp modifier in a normal trait for a normal exp gain that will give you tons of exp....if you use it on all your gear and exp from that source.

- All Vet rank players will earn exp and not reach any cap. DEVS will monitor and make sure. Every point of exp matters, no matter where you get it.
- Vet 14 is the hard cap today with all character progression by ranks
- In 1.5 = Vet rank 14 will KEEP gaining exp and the cap will be so high that no one will reach it. At Vet 14, you do NOT see the exp you gain, but you will keep gaining.

MY conclusion: Mine, a player view, NO source for fact in this statement why Vet 14 do NOT see how much exp they get

Vet 14 players do no see their exp but always get exp which gets turned into Champion points in 1.6. The more exp, the more points.

Just like it works in the Champion system. So you can keep on exp in 1.5 JUST like you will be in 1.6.

This means all players always have a reason to gain EXP.
Right now Vet 14 players do not gain anything by earning exp. It's a stop!
Patch 1.5 = there will not be a "stop". Every exp is good.

Very good way to remove a progress system to replace with a new.
Players who WANT to grind to Max exp = will hate this since they will not gain max exp. They get more points to start with in 1.6

At Level 50, when you are a Champion in 1.6 and earns EXP as stated, you know your advance to the next point. Just like to the next level. A champion point work just like a Vet rank, it rewards you with a character progress. The difference is what they reward.

HOWEVER
You will not be able to calculate what way gives the best EXP to get a champion point until 1.6. Even if someone does - Devs stating they looking at this and will even this out.

Getting 1 Champion point takes just as long no matter how many points you have.

This is a VERY good way to solve "grinders" only get fast exp.
There will be "grind spots", but since you never get max and there are more ways to get exp - "grinding" will simply not be "needed" for many players.
Some still will grind.....I have no idea why.

Champion system creates what ESO core is. Never ending character progression

A player with 10 champion points can very much do better things then someone with 100 points. Depending on YOUR game play.

Player skill will matter even more. Which is the CORE of ESO.







Small hint....
The real power is Spell crafting.
The skill bar will balance it.....but this is your real power.

Cogo

For those who are interested how level effects your combat

Just search the database on this site.

All character skills are based in character level - even crafting skills
You character level AND skill level is a factor in how "powerful" it is.
For example:
Heavy armor skill level matter how effective the armor is.
Player level matters how effective Heavy armor skill is.

Level 50:
All at level 50 got the same base for all skills - No character level problem.

The progress without level up IS a problem to solve.
EQ AA system which the Champion system is based on = Solves this.
Players gets more powerful but even a new level 50 is not as huge difference to champions with a lot of points.

New level 50 would be under a huge disadvantage if new level is 55.
Just like level 45 over a level 40 is today.

Base for combat: Char level - attributes - effects and everything else you wear or skills you use.

Champion system removes the level calculation, since everyone is level 50.
This removes a big balance issue if players where different levels.

If a level 20 player attacks a level 40 player/mob. You stand no chance. Or very little. Good players might. But attack a level 30 mob...much easier.

If a Champion with 10 champion points attacks a champion/mob with 200 Champion points or mob that's made for 200 points.
The 10 points champion does not suffer any level difference. Stats, effects, gear and everything matters.

Cogo

AngryNord wrote: »

I wonder if mobs will be "nerfed" to level 50, or if we'll end up with Lvl 50 character fighting Vet-level mobs...

You already are. Some mobs MIGHT be Level 51 etc, but you do not know that.

This is the cool thing with ESO. You don't gimp "old content" with character level raising.

All Vet mobs are level 50 with different abilities and stats.
Please prove me wrong and show me where Zenimax says differently.
I even accept any statement from years ago.

The reason why the Champion system takes this long to make, from May when they started on it, is just what you asked.

How do they do it and how will all mobs compare.
Since Vet ranks is not "levels", that factor is not needed.
Vet rank 14 does have lots more attributes to consider.

What will happen with the attribute, we do not know yet.

No mob will be "nerfed" when it comes to their level. But needs to be balanced against the champion system and all other character advancement thats coming.

They stating they are close and the Patch 1.5 proves that.

deathmasterl_ESO

Okay first off calm down man, I posted this topic with its questions a few months ago, only a few days ago did a Dev post in here saying what was happening.

Also as to the point where I said skill points were added with the current Vet System I was wrong, I made a mistake, no big deal.

Also while I thank you for posting a more detailed response to how things are changing most of us already understood what was happening after Maria's post. Other posts are simply trying to figure out what happens after the Vet Ranks Disappear to gear and what not now.

Cogo

Yeah I am calming down :-p

Asking is fine! Even here! Its ok.
But I've been on these forums since launch. Some of these users have as well.

Asking anything is great! There is no stupid question.
But read this thread. Almost argue about things the DEV posted...here.
Or the user who claims Zenimax don't say anything. About a subject that was answered HERE.

I do write this in this way to stop people from giving others fake info.
I do not play Wildstar, but their forums are blaming JUST this....player misinformation for Wildstar "failing".

ESO is gaining players a lot because their friend told them its cool.
Same thing if a friend say its crap! Like in wildstars case.

I am sick of people who use their view as facts.
Sure! say what you want. Zenimax listens!!
More people should ask more things! But also kinda...listen to the answers?

There are even Vet players who claims that anyone who have not got a Vet 14 char.....shouldn't even be allowed to talk about "end game".

That's proof of pretty lousy understanding of ESO.
And when they tell their friends about it......

I like how ESO forum got a lot more active lately and lots of different "groups".
Not only whiners here anymore.

These forum is getting better and better. My guess is more players means more players who use forums. Not all...but 10% of 10.000 or 10% of 100.000 is a big difference in % of players who use forums :-)

Cogo

deathmasterl_ESO wrote: »

Okay first off calm down man, I posted this topic with its questions a few months ago, only a few days ago did a Dev post in here saying what was happening.

Also as to the point where I said skill points were added with the current Vet System I was wrong, I made a mistake, no big deal.

Also while I thank you for posting a more detailed response to how things are changing most of us already understood what was happening after Maria's post. Other posts are simply trying to figure out what happens after the Vet Ranks Disappear to gear and what not now.

Just to make something clear.
You are quite welcome! I do post just to help.

Your reply is something you don't see on these forums previously from summer.
Thank you for your kind of reply!

But......
How do I know all this you think?
I know about everything regarding the champion system, except the few new things. Like skill points and Cap for exp. That CP was account bound and your alt can use your USED points.
Thats new

Everything else has been published since June!
http://dulfy.net/2014/07/18/eso-quakecon-the-future-of-eso-panel-notes/#Veteran_System_with_Paul_Sage

There is tons of podcasts as well.

There will be users to say that Vet rank is a level, above 50.
Why?
I have no idea. And when I post it.....I get "lol" and ....

Ask yourself, why are so many Vet 14 not aware they are level 50? With X ranks?

Nazon_Katts

Someone forgot to lock the cage, eh?!

Cogo

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Yep, but when they're saying most won't reach it, it kinda transpires that it's gotta be rather high and tough to reach. No matter how you turn it, it still promotes the grind. It will leave us in the exact same situation we're in now; rush'n'grind to cap and 50+ content is only being played at max, if at all.

Grind all you want, only to be owned by a new player with less CP but more spell crafting options since they did that while getting to level 50.

"Grinders" will pretty much be the only players who gets left behind in power.
Until they understand how ESO works.

I don't see that changing much for the positive of the game and wonder why they would go through all the hassle, if almost everything meta stays the same, essentially. It's a better reward structure, but it won't change how the game is played.

Please read up what the system is....you got it backwards

Rewards for completing content are lacking and CS could finally help with alleviating that, but if it remains purely XP based, nothing will have changed, really. I don't want the grind to be removed nor nerfed, but playing content being brought up on par with it.

Sigh

Nothing have changed if Vet rank players get exp instead of Vet points to raise a Vet rank?

There isn't lots of more ways to gain exp then it is to gain Veteran points?

As with anything in this game, we need options for effectively playing the game. Currently there's just one overly efficient one and not much points in another direction. (Dungeon Dailies are a hint, but why just dailies?) Otherwise this game will just lose depth and with it players.

Are you joking now? There is so much to do for many different types of players.

You are wrong sir. May I suggest something that might make ESO more fun for you?
Please read about the champion system and what ESO is.

You have this post, guild summit or many other Zenimax sources.

Also, please check what ESO is. "Effectively" is a very wide thing.
Crafting can be made very effectively with a guild trade skill system.

Is that what you mean?

You mention Dungeons and "why dailies"?
Um - this is no way to be rude! Please understand I want to correct your statement.

ESO is created to not repeat much at all. Matt Firor said that, think it was 3 years ago...the first time.

If your ONLY interest is dungeons....well, sure...there just is so many you can do.

Dungeons in ESO is one part of gameplay of what....20?
I lost count since players comes up with new things.
Like "merchant" players, who plays the economy game - going from zone to zone. Buy cheap and sell for profit.

Completely player made "game play".

Cogo

deathmasterl_ESO wrote: »

On another note over 3.4k Views 0.o I have never had a discussion I've ever posted anywhere before have this many views.

You get this many views, but no comments since most users gets the info.
Not much to ask about really. Zenimax made it crystal clear.

What is not clear is just what you asked. What about Vet content miners and nodes? Or Vet rank to wear Vet X gear?

They answered they do not know yet. They working on how to do it and balance it.

Since they confirmed Phase 2 in Champion system at 1.5. They are not far away about that.

They are listening to us btw.

Cogo

Kego wrote: »

Only if every XP gets transfered to CPs.
I believe that ZOS will cap the maximum CP that you can gain through the initial transfer.

Yes and no. They cap it...but so high that no Vet player will get it.

Cogo

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

oren74 wrote: »

adean27 wrote: »

@Qyrk I can answer this one. It's based on overall XP generated by an account. So for instance, if you had 4 VR 14 characters with a combined XP of 2 million, and I had 1 character with a total XP of 4 million, I would have more Champion points than you.

They are tracking all XP that is gained.

This is the million dollar answer that is needed. Please comment on this Zos.

Get grinding folks! If you don't, you'll eat dust!

You do that. I'll play and have fun with everything, gaining CP and get better at my "build".

Mind telling me what is so fun with grinding? I've done it! EQ for 7 years.
I have not grinded a single second in ESO!

Why are you doing it? Where is the fun?

deathmasterl_ESO

It was an open question as to if I should wait to make new gear or not chill out. I already know what they said and given the info they have provided its a valid question since nobody knows the answer yet. And I said nothing about the actual nodes I was talking about the lvl of said gear so voidstone gear or whatever other vr material there is and as to what is happening to them.

Nazon_Katts

In this particular case, ignorance is bliss indeed.