Changing your values and increasing them by a factor of 10 will do nothing if the end result of a bonus is STILL 1%, since the overall game engine still applies damage along similar lines.

100 x 1% + 100 = 101 = 1 xtra point
1000 x 1% + 1000 = 1010 10 xtra points
10000 x 1% + 10000 = 10100 100 xtra points

For the math challenged, every 10 in a group of a thousand is 1 percent. Every 100 in a group of ten thousand is a percent.

Negligible. Useless. Show pony.

Edited to explain the math.

Erock25 wrote: »

I agree that it is an unnecessary change but why even worry about it yourself? You know 1% is 1% whether you have 10k or 1k health so it makes no difference to me.

This ^^^

Its really not a big deal people...

phreatophile wrote: »

Our amps go up to 11

Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?

Why don't they make the decimals work for small percentage increase or if they really need to use integers, why they don't just use them internally and convert and display reasonable decimal numbers on the UI?

Please no, i allready got tired seeing these ridiculous numbers when playing WOW.

Scrap this and find a new way though... System is working perfectly fine for me and i realize while 1-3% increase in something may seem small it often is the thin line between life and death. I got used to these "small" numbers in good old WOW before they scrapped the lovely talent system. Just let the working game be and remember the wise words

"If it works, do not fix it"

phreatophile wrote: »

Our amps go up to 11

Give me $2,000 and I will build you one that goes to 12.

xsfkxnub19_ESO wrote: »

"All your character’s stats, attributes, and damage values will be multiplied by 10 (for example, a Health of 2,500 would become a Health of 25,000). This will allow small percentage bonuses to realize a visible impact on your character’s stat lines."

Please don't do this, I feel like you're WoWifing the game. I like the current values, and multiplying the values times 10 will only cause people to stress over negligible percent increases. I know I'm not the only one who hates the silly look of such large values, please please refrain from doing this.

Edit: Quote from guild summit.

Lol, talk about mudflation.

Anyways, sounds like the entire *point* is to stress over the negligible percent increases that the champion system will be enabling.

Resueht wrote: »

I've been trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here and there was some underlying principle that makes this reasonable.

But I can't think of one without knowing their system of rounding and stat management. The only thing I can think of is integer math and issues with truncation. If the small percentages are too small, i.e. 1% of 20, then if number is truncated you get no real increase. If they use a ceiling function then it will round up and give much more than 1%. All of this is assuming they use an integer stat system which, which wouldn't make much sense for how things are anyway.

Bottom line: I'm skeptical of this change having any real impact, but without knowing the exact number-keeping methods they use I'm hesitant to pass ultimate judgement on this plan.

That's pretty much the point. If putting a point in some sign in the new champion system gives you +0.1% damage, with the current numbers displayed (which are shown as ints, no idea what they are under the hood) the player wouldn't see any benefit from putting that point into that sign.

i.e. you have 400 damage. You put a point in the skill that increases it by .1%. You now have 400.4 damage. But because the UI only displays whole ints, it still shows up as 400. It doesn't look like that point did *anything*.

Now sure, they could simply display all the stats in their unrounded form. Or (I guess) multiply them by enough 10's that you always see the benefit. They're apparently taking the latter approach.


Realistically, it *probably* doesn't really matter. It's all just cosmetics. As long as they get their multiples right.

i.e. if they actually multiply weapon damage by 10 and stamina by 10, (and not just the display) but actual damage done is a multiple of weapon damage and stamina, then you probably better multiply health by 100, and not just by 10. Otherwise things will die 10x as fast.

Technically, we are not supposed to see the damage numbers so....

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

I would like to comment I believe this has a lot to do with MINOR things in the game that A. Already exist versus B. Are coming.

Lets take the champion system. If the integers are too small you place 9 points in say health but see no actual increase due to the fact your not increasing by a whole # based on the current system. So after placing 10 points in health you finally have your hit points increased by 1.

This diminishes the Value of the Champion System. But shifting the value by 10 can simply help to see the change even if it is just simply a 1% incease value to your character.

This change can have potential value to allow for better slight variations of increase. It would be wise for Devs to take a moment to show how and why this can improve the game and where.

Slight indeed.

If you've heard of/played Borderlands 2, it had a system very similar to what they're presenting here. Problem was, the value drop off was too swift, and your actual control and choice was limited (much like it sounds here by forcing you to move to another pane after each point), so it ended up just being a rounded off overall bonus to everything (basically repainting Vet Ranks). How they're presenting it here and bloating the values is just taking a lot of the wind out of the system

Champion system was one of the biggest things I was looking forward to. Not so much anymore after reading the summit, but we'll see.

@ZOS

Wouldn't it be better to just bloat the point requirements instead of the reverse?
Spend per percentage point: 1 -> 2 -> 4 -> 8 etc. to see a whole value increase, instead of putting in: 1 -> 1 -> 1 and getting miniscule values. This would increase diversity as you're not always spending the same amount in each champion pane (or whatever you're calling it).

My main problem with this is because of the recent QA debacles that we've seen. I'm sure that 90% of the game numbers will be scaled correctly. However, the remaining 10% (we'll just assume that it will be on Nightblade attacks) won't be scaled correctly and will remain at their current values. As such, they will be severely underpowered until a fix can be put in.

I don't see any desperate need to change most combat numbers just for the sake of making players feel better about their choices, even though the result is the same. Too much risk, not enough reward, if you ask me.

Frenkthevile wrote: »

better be true, finally Purple/Yellow glyphs will have a reason to exist.

And here is the guy they are doing this for. Someone who thinks this will actually be an improvement.

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Well they tried to Elder Scrollsify it and people ripped it apart and have it negative reviews. All WoW clones get much higher reviews

If they stopped breaking their game it would get a lot higher reviews. People are complaining about the bugs and shoddy QA and lack of communication. Nobody asked for inflated numbers or vet rank increases. It obviously doesn't matter what we say because they ignore us anyway.

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

xsfkxnub19_ESO wrote: »

"All your character’s stats, attributes, and damage values will be multiplied by 10 (for example, a Health of 2,500 would become a Health of 25,000). This will allow small percentage bonuses to realize a visible impact on your character’s stat lines."

Please don't do this, I feel like you're WoWifing the game. I like the current values, and multiplying the values times 10 will only cause people to stress over negligible percent increases. I know I'm not the only one who hates the silly look of such large values, please please refrain from doing this.

Edit: Quote from guild summit.

i completely disagree with you and i can only see this change thier doing us a GOOD thing not a bad thing.

Care to explain how?

LonePirate wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

People are over reacting hardcore to this bit of news. WHY DOES IT MATTER TO YOU? All this change does is make the unaware feel better about getting their 1% stat increase and for those of us that know it's just an extra ZERO big whoop, wanna fight about it?

You are correct that his change is meaningless provided the proportionality is kept for everything. My concern is that we are going to find numerous bugs and issue once ZOS starts tinkering with things that did not need to be changed.

Where is your confidence? Is it because they manage to break the game with even minor changes and then take weeks to fix it? Yeah I don't see this as being a good idea either.

Knootewoot wrote: »

Ugh, in SWG you also had orinally around 800 health. After the CU you gained health per level in the millions. It was the beginning of the end.

Champion system really is sounding like the CU of ESO. The only difference is SWG was extremely solid before the CU.