Won't removing Soft Caps hurt balance (especially if armor is not affected)?

david.haypreub18_ESO · October 2014

I read on the guild summit update that ZOS is moving towards removing soft caps. I am on the fence about that, as I think it might create more imbalance (i.e. why not just stack magicka to the nines?). What is worse, it seems that the one thing that probably should not be subject to a soft cap-- armor-- WILL STILL have a softcap it regards to mitigation even when the others are removed.

This seems very odd to me. If you are going to remove softcaps, why keep a cap for mitigation? And how precisely do they think the softcap will help with balance?

Can someone explain this one to me?

Nestor · October 2014

We are already "softcapped" by the limitations of what we can add to our characters to make them stronger. You say stack mana to the nines, well to do that, you will have little health. If you are around 1000 to 1500 health, you can be one shotted in a battle, so all your magic reserves will do you no good.

However, the softcaps are good because in a complex gaming system, there will always be combos that give unintended buffs, due to bugs in the code or exploits of the systems by a determined gamer.

KenjiJU · October 2014

I didn't think they said they were going to remove softcaps completely. They could allow Champion point stats to bypass the softcaps, but keep everything else as it is. I'd also assume diminishing gains the more Champion points you put into one particular focus. That would make the most sense, imo.

Edit: Sounds like they are..

Tankqull · October 2014

you are still caped by the possible slots wich generate an indirect hardcap.

but if they drop soft caps - armor softcaps have to be droped aswell as thats the reason wich makes heavy armor completly useless.

BBSooner · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

We are already "softcapped" by the limitations of what we can add to our characters to make them stronger. You say stack mana to the nines, well to do that, you will have little health. If you are around 1000 to 1500 health, you can be one shotted in a battle, so all your magic reserves will do you no good.

However, the softcaps are good because in a complex gaming system, there will always be combos that give unintended buffs, due to bugs in the code or exploits of the systems by a determined gamer.

Unless it's changing/changed magicka increased spell power - making removing the cap provide a possibility for a glass cannon to be possible. This I'm fine with. However not allowing people to increase their mitigations to counteract these burst builds seems to me will only result in tanks taking more damage with little recourse.

CapuchinSeven · October 2014

I couldn't imagine PVP with less than 3k health, in fact I often look for the VR12 -14 targets running around with 2.5/6k health with a grin on my face.

Gillysan · October 2014

Please clarify:
No soft caps or hard caps?
No soft caps but hard caps?

s7732425ub17_ESO · October 2014

There are not going to be soft caps meaning no diminishing returns after a point. However, there will be hard caps on certain things (such as armor maxing out at 50% damage mitigation).

david.haypreub18_ESO · October 2014

Tankqull wrote: »

but if they drop soft caps - armor softcaps have to be droped aswell as thats the reason wich makes heavy armor completly useless.

Yes, that's what I am thinking too. If you drop soft caps for everything but armor, then heavy will just fall further behind light.

ExiledKhallisi · October 2014

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I couldn't imagine PVP with less than 3k health, in fact I often look for the VR12 -14 targets running around with 2.5/6k health with a grin on my face.

I relish the moment someone tries to single me out. I have less health because I hit like a freight train.

ExiledKhallisi · October 2014

If they remove softcaps I will have 400 Wep dmg

demonlkojipub19_ESO · October 2014

Soft cap removal will allow full benefit of things that currently dont give full benefit. Namely heavy armor with armor, light armor with spell resist, 1h weapons builds, dw builds, etc. 2h and dw especially are easy to hit the soft cap with, and its unfair that their effectiveness gets stunted.

Hnoestly we have a set amount of gear related buffs and skill buffs that can be recieved. If someone wants to put it all into weapon damage, then the should be able too. That just means theyll be minimak on other stats like regeneration and spell damage. Right now the game forces you to spread your stats out or be overall less effective, but pepole should be able to specialize with only the amount of gear you can equip and skills at your disposal as the limiter.

david.haypreub18_ESO · October 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Soft cap removal will allow full benefit of things that currently dont give full benefit. Namely heavy armor with armor, light armor with spell resist, 1h weapons builds, dw builds, etc. 2h and dw especially are easy to hit the soft cap with, and its unfair that their effectiveness gets stunted.

Heavy armor's effectiveness will be stunted even more if a cap remains in place only for armor mitigation and nothing else (as ZOS said it would: the cap for armor would be 50%). It is pretty easy already to hit the softcap in light armor; there's no reason to wear heavy already. This change will make that imbalance far worse, no?

Dagoth_Rac · October 2014

My guess for current build styles versus future build styles:

Current with softcaps:
7 good builds
56,379,373,573,563,563 mediocre builds.
39 bad builds

Future without softcaps:
41 good builds
42,163,467,891,634,689 mediocre builds
14,467,456,747,446,674 bad builds

sagitter · October 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Soft cap removal will allow full benefit of things that currently dont give full benefit. Namely heavy armor with armor, light armor with spell resist, 1h weapons builds, dw builds, etc. 2h and dw especially are easy to hit the soft cap with, and its unfair that their effectiveness gets stunted.

Heavy armor's effectiveness will be stunted even more if a cap remains in place only for armor mitigation and nothing else (as ZOS said it would: the cap for armor would be 50%). It is pretty easy already to hit the softcap in light armor; there's no reason to wear heavy already. This change will make that imbalance far worse, no?

I d put a softcap based on armor type, light 20%, medium 35%, heavy 55%.

Dagoth_Rac · October 2014

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

There are not going to be soft caps meaning no diminishing returns after a point. However, there will be hard caps on certain things (such as armor maxing out at 50% damage mitigation).

The diminishing returns will still exist, but be part of the Champion System. So, 1 Champion Point in a given perk might give you 2% increased weapon damage. But 100 Champion Points in that perk might only give you 12% increased weapon damage. And 700 Champion Points in that perk might give you only 15% increased weapon damage.

c0rp · October 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Soft cap removal will allow full benefit of things that currently dont give full benefit. Namely heavy armor with armor, light armor with spell resist, 1h weapons builds, dw builds, etc. 2h and dw especially are easy to hit the soft cap with, and its unfair that their effectiveness gets stunted.

Heavy armor's effectiveness will be stunted even more if a cap remains in place only for armor mitigation and nothing else (as ZOS said it would: the cap for armor would be 50%). It is pretty easy already to hit the softcap in light armor; there's no reason to wear heavy already. This change will make that imbalance far worse, no?

They said armor will be changing. They said wearing light armor is going to feel pretty squishy IIRC.

jelliedsoup · October 2014

c0rp wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Soft cap removal will allow full benefit of things that currently dont give full benefit. Namely heavy armor with armor, light armor with spell resist, 1h weapons builds, dw builds, etc. 2h and dw especially are easy to hit the soft cap with, and its unfair that their effectiveness gets stunted.

Heavy armor's effectiveness will be stunted even more if a cap remains in place only for armor mitigation and nothing else (as ZOS said it would: the cap for armor would be 50%). It is pretty easy already to hit the softcap in light armor; there's no reason to wear heavy already. This change will make that imbalance far worse, no?

They said armor will be changing. They said wearing light armor is going to feel pretty squishy IIRC.

Light armour squishy? Next those in heavy arnour will move slower. When will the madness end?

Kalman · October 2014

Benefits of the Current Systems

Helps to prevent “bad builds”
Freedom of how to play – allows players to go over limits

Problems with the Current System

Trade-offs are not pronounced
Too easy to hit soft caps
Balance is harder

Solutions:
All your character’s stats, attributes, and damage values will be multiplied by 10 (for example, a Health of 2,500 would become a Health of 25,000). This will allow small percentage bonuses to realize a visible impact on your character’s stat lines.

Soft caps are being removed entirely.

Impose some limits – for example, Armor (Physical resistance) caps out at 50% mitigation. On live right now, this would equate to roughly 3,000 armor.

Each source of benefit to a certain stat has it’s own caps. For example, buffs, equipment, traits, and more will each have their own independent maxima to contributing towards the overall limit.

Once these changes are in place, the numbers in abilities, items, enchantments, weapons, etc… will all need to be changed.

Compute rate limits (DPS and damage prevention)

Adjust NPC and monster stats and abilities

What does this mean?
You’ll have to make commitments to be the best in a particular area.

More varied builds, better interdependence between builds.

Some abilities will have to change, i.e. armor buffs won’t stack

Itemization will be much more important.

The dynamics of combat will change, particularly at max-level

.

Nestor · October 2014

If they are changing all this, I forsee a month or three of some builds doing huge damage and some builds doing little damage as they fix all the calculations.

Nihil · October 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Soft cap removal will allow full benefit of things that currently dont give full benefit. Namely heavy armor with armor, light armor with spell resist, 1h weapons builds, dw builds, etc. 2h and dw especially are easy to hit the soft cap with, and its unfair that their effectiveness gets stunted.

Heavy armor's effectiveness will be stunted even more if a cap remains in place only for armor mitigation and nothing else (as ZOS said it would: the cap for armor would be 50%). It is pretty easy already to hit the softcap in light armor; there's no reason to wear heavy already. This change will make that imbalance far worse, no?

They said armor will be changing. They said wearing light armor is going to feel pretty squishy IIRC.

Light armour squishy? Next those in heavy arnour will move slower. When will the madness end?

I think some of it is part of the "armor buffs wont stack". RIght now Light armor can easily stack armor buffs to reach high mitigation. With removal of soft caps (from what I have read it seems like it will apply to armor but max damage reduction will be 50 %) This means that Heavy armor will be able to achieve a far greater bonus to their armor then light armor will.

caperon · August 2015

Necromancy is amusing sometimes.

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2015

LOL, thanks man!

I hate to say to ZOS, 'I told you so...'. But I actually did tell you so!

Maybe now they will also grudgingly acknowledge the other things I and many other players think needed fixed/buffed:
--Argonians
--Templars, DKs and Tanks in general
--Heavy Armor
--And for god's sake, please don't nerf stam regen while blocking! Just fix block casting.