What all the pro bow users are doing in pvp now.

Varicite · September 2014

moXrox wrote: »

Are you sure that the "animation cancel" is balanced when it comes to the duration of an animation ? I did not test this so I dont know.

Take for example a 2H weapon and use the Uppercut ability, the animation for Uppercut is quiete long and slow.

Can the long animation be canceled as fast like others or even combined with normal hits i.e. bow+poison, you can more or less use them both together instantly.

For abilities like Uppercut that have a cast time, you have to let the animation play almost fully before it can be "clipped" near the end.

For this reason, cast time abilities are a lot less desirable to players who use animation cancelling heavily.

As an aside, all of the highest DPS stamina builds that I know of actually revolve around cast time abilities like Flurry and Wrecking Blow mixed w/ DoTs and Heavy attacks.

Take that however you like. : )

moXrox · September 2014

Varicite wrote: »

moXrox wrote: »

Are you sure that the "animation cancel" is balanced when it comes to the duration of an animation ? I did not test this so I dont know.

Take for example a 2H weapon and use the Uppercut ability, the animation for Uppercut is quiete long and slow.

Can the long animation be canceled as fast like others or even combined with normal hits i.e. bow+poison, you can more or less use them both together instantly.

For abilities like Uppercut that have a cast time, you have to let the animation play almost fully before it can be "clipped" near the end.

For this reason, cast time abilities are a lot less desirable to players who use animation cancelling heavily.

As an aside, all of the highest DPS stamina builds that I know of actually revolve around cast time abilities like Flurry and Wrecking Blow mixed w/ DoTs and Heavy attacks.

Take that however you like. : )

Thank you a lot

In other words this whole animation canceling itself is unbalanced and gives not only an advantage to people who dont do it, but it favours even more only certain abilities.

Oh man......this sounds broken. And this was "intended" ?

Varicite · September 2014

moXrox wrote: »

Thank you a lot

In other words this whole animation canceling itself is unbalanced and gives not only an advantage to people who dont do it, but it favours even more only certain abilities.

Oh man......this sounds broken. And this was "intended" ?

Well, it wasn't exactly intended, but it isn't an exploit by any means, and due to mechanics already in place, the DPS yield isn't much higher than what you could normally do.

It's like this:

Say in 3 seconds, you can use 3 attacks. Normally, these 3 attacks are evenly spaced.

Using animation cancelling, you can still only use 3 attacks in 3 seconds, but the first 2 attacks are much closer together and there's a slight gap before the 3rd attack.

The end result is almost identical, you're just clumping your attacks together in pairs instead of having them evenly spaced.

Shunravi · September 2014

I feell like this would be a good place to leave this;

http://youtu.be/2zGnxeSbb3g
IRL speed archery!

CapuchinSeven · September 2014

thorspark wrote: »

@Soulac‌ :
When I see those "good" NBs, I have my immovable slotted to avoid fear.

er, NB fear is repeatedly reported as overriding Immovable, it's often cried out about when it's not fixed.

MorHawk wrote: »

That quote's really been stretched.

No it hasn't. Just because you or I don't like that, doesn't change it.

It was unexpected, but not exploiting. That's that. Reading it the way you want to read it doesn't change reality. They said, word for word, it's unexpected but not an exploit.

MorHawk wrote: »

And, as ever, your blinkeredness on bows, just because they work in a PVP setting, is facepalm-worthy.

Where did I mention anything other than PVP? In fact, don't bother answering. We'll go round and around with you continuing to do what you just did, reading what you want to read so you can think of a reply.

Nefrast · September 2014

Shunravi wrote: »

IRL speed archery!

Wow!, thanks for posting this, most intriguing.

kitsinni · September 2014

Obscure wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Animation canceling is integral to just about every game I can think of that has a skill system. However only one of them that I can think of allows the player to complete a skill or action that is canceled, and that's ESO.

Cancelation should equal cancelation, not activation. Every player should freely be able to cancel his or her animation, and that cancelation should include the action performed. You attack but cancel with a block? The attack is canceled and you are blocking. You use an attack to cancel your block? The block is canceled and you attack. It's not complex or difficult to comprehend.

This is precisely how animation canceling is intended to work as designed by any self respecting professional game designer. The only way to justify this in ESO is to openly accept poor game design as integral to ESO...which judging by the state of the game as it has remained since well before launch, is likely the actual heart of the issue: justification for poor game design.

If an attack is instant with no cooldown and no global cooldown you are not actually canceling the skill. How do you cancel something instant? The skill happened instantly. I also don't know of any other games with a block system like ESO either so that might explain why block functions differently than other games.

Synchronized animations with activation times is what many other games do. The animation code string is often directly tied to the cast time (longer the cast, longer the animation). Skills in ESO that are deemed "instant" have animations much longer than instant, I.E. there is no synchronization between cast and animation. This is very simply put, poor game design.

If you want an example of blocking in specific, take a look at TES V:Skyrim. If you wind up a power attack, then block, the attack is canceled (note: you cannot universally block with all weapons). If you block before an attack animation is complete, the attack is canceled. Even though Skyrim is heavily physics based, that specific principle of game design is not difficult to preserve in a less physics based or a completely non physics based system.

Every skill with an animation time needs an equivalent cast time. The reason casting animations exist is to provide the player a visual cue that they are casting. The present design of ESO with its animations defys this basic concept of game design. If the cast time is instant there should be no animation. If there is an animation the cast time should be identical to it. If a skill can be canceled in animation it should also be canceled in activation. It really truly is that simple and really truly is poor game design.

So what you are really asking for is a rework of the combat system to add cast times to everything because the skills in question don't have a cast time and there is no cool down system in play. If the skills have a cast time then yes blocking should cancel that skill because you didn't finish the cast. If they are instant skills then the block should not be stopped.

I agree that the present design is pretty weak. I don't understand animation times on instant skills. I'm pretty sure it was just poor design. They wanted to have instant skills and already committed to no global cool down so they added in an animation to effectively work as a cast time. Then they added a block system that doesn't make sense for an MMO so they added an attack priority system. They wanted you to be able to block a heavy attack actively as soon as you saw it and already made the skills instant and already committed to no cool down so they were stuck with having block be a priority attack. Since the skills were instant you can get both off.

I do think that we are at a point in the game where everything has been tuned to using animation canceling. I just assumed everyone already did this in PvP but apparently some people think this is new. Before the PTS was public every single guild that was allowed to test the new content ie; trials, vet Coh, Craglorn all used it heavily and openly talked about it. I think all of that content was created assuming people would use it.

Mendoze · September 2014

I used to have big problems against archers in PVP too. Like from 100% to dead in few seconds, but then I started to use Bound Armor. Now I have soft capped armor, and those bow attacks still hurt, but they don't one-shot me anymore. If you live through that first burst and can start blocking, then you can still make a comeback.

As a light armor and magicka user, I sure hope I had a spell that would crit for 2k damage against medium and heavy armor users, but while we are waiting for that, I can only advice to get more armor....or shields

Maulkin · September 2014

Shunravi wrote: »

I feell like this would be a good place to leave this;
http://youtu.be/2zGnxeSbb3g
IRL speed archery!

As somebody who practices archery IRL I find this (and similar to it) videos quite funny and I feel I have to respond.

If you notice Lars Andersen's technique, he only draws the bowstring back by a few inches, to the elbow of his left hand. A normal draw is pulling the string back to your chin and depending on your arm length that can be a draw of anywhere from 26 to 32 inches for an adult male. Andersen's draw would not be more than 10-13 inches.

As you can probably imagine every inch you pull the bowstring back, it becomes much and much harder to pull the next inch. The last 3-4 inches of your draw is where all the power is derived from. A draw of 12" does generate half the power of a 26" draw, it in fact generated less than a quarter.

Notice how he shoots targets 4-5 meters away. Shortest range archery is 20m. Long range archery is 90m. His arrows wouldn't even make it that far, let allow penetrate a target at that distance. Not to mention the pitiful accuracy you get as a result of the speed and lack of stability.

There's a reason why archery is long distance and not over 5m. If you're hunting you can never get within 5m of the prey without scaring it away. In the medieval battlefield if the enemy infantry got as close to you as the targets in Andersen video, you were as good as dead. Their shield's and armour would protect them while the just ran through you with sword or spear.

In summary, there's a reason why archery is what it is and not what some internet weirdos who supposedly decyphered some ancient archery techniques make it to out be. That video is as bogus as those "documentaries" about alien abductions.

kitsinni · September 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I feell like this would be a good place to leave this;
http://youtu.be/2zGnxeSbb3g
IRL speed archery!

As somebody who practices archery IRL I find this (and similar to it) videos quite funny and I feel I have to respond.

If you notice Lars Andersen's technique, he only draws the bowstring back by a few inches, to the elbow of his left hand. A normal draw is pulling the string back to your chin and depending on your arm length that can be a draw of anywhere from 26 to 32 inches for an adult male. Andersen's draw would not be more than 10-13 inches.

As you can probably imagine every inch you pull the bowstring back, it becomes much and much harder to pull the next inch. The last 3-4 inches of your draw is where all the power is derived from. A draw of 12" does generate half the power of a 26" draw, it in fact generated less than a quarter.

Notice how he shoots targets 4-5 meters away. Shortest range archery is 20m. Long range archery is 90m. His arrows wouldn't even make it that far, let allow penetrate a target at that distance. Not to mention the pitiful accuracy you get as a result of the speed and lack of stability.

There's a reason why archery is long distance and not over 5m. If you're hunting you can never get within 5m of the prey without scaring it away. In the medieval battlefield if the enemy infantry got as close to you as the targets in Andersen video, you were as good as dead. Their shield's and armour would protect them while the just ran through you with sword or spear.

In summary, there's a reason why archery is what it is and not what some internet weirdos who supposedly decyphered some ancient archery techniques make it to out be. That video is as bogus as those "documentaries" about alien abductions.

Take aside the entire aspect that in ESO we are heroes with special power and there is magic at play. Wouldn't it make sense that you could shoot really fast for less damage because the bow wouldn't be pulled back all the way? There is the whole aspect of range and I know that a shorter pull will not result in the same range, but I think that is where the imaginary video game world comes in. In RL you can't get a couple rings that extend your range with the same impact. It would be kind of interesting if light attacks actually shot a shorter distance than heavy, but that would cause all kinds of balance issues because who knows how the physics of a staff that shoots fireballs would work with short and heavy attack .. or even why a staff would shoot more fireballs if you held the staff out longer lol.

Obscure · September 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Animation canceling is integral to just about every game I can think of that has a skill system. However only one of them that I can think of allows the player to complete a skill or action that is canceled, and that's ESO.

Cancelation should equal cancelation, not activation. Every player should freely be able to cancel his or her animation, and that cancelation should include the action performed. You attack but cancel with a block? The attack is canceled and you are blocking. You use an attack to cancel your block? The block is canceled and you attack. It's not complex or difficult to comprehend.

This is precisely how animation canceling is intended to work as designed by any self respecting professional game designer. The only way to justify this in ESO is to openly accept poor game design as integral to ESO...which judging by the state of the game as it has remained since well before launch, is likely the actual heart of the issue: justification for poor game design.

If an attack is instant with no cooldown and no global cooldown you are not actually canceling the skill. How do you cancel something instant? The skill happened instantly. I also don't know of any other games with a block system like ESO either so that might explain why block functions differently than other games.

Synchronized animations with activation times is what many other games do. The animation code string is often directly tied to the cast time (longer the cast, longer the animation). Skills in ESO that are deemed "instant" have animations much longer than instant, I.E. there is no synchronization between cast and animation. This is very simply put, poor game design.

If you want an example of blocking in specific, take a look at TES V:Skyrim. If you wind up a power attack, then block, the attack is canceled (note: you cannot universally block with all weapons). If you block before an attack animation is complete, the attack is canceled. Even though Skyrim is heavily physics based, that specific principle of game design is not difficult to preserve in a less physics based or a completely non physics based system.

Every skill with an animation time needs an equivalent cast time. The reason casting animations exist is to provide the player a visual cue that they are casting. The present design of ESO with its animations defys this basic concept of game design. If the cast time is instant there should be no animation. If there is an animation the cast time should be identical to it. If a skill can be canceled in animation it should also be canceled in activation. It really truly is that simple and really truly is poor game design.

So what you are really asking for is a rework of the combat system to add cast times to everything because the skills in question don't have a cast time and there is no cool down system in play. If the skills have a cast time then yes blocking should cancel that skill because you didn't finish the cast. If they are instant skills then the block should not be stopped.

I agree that the present design is pretty weak. I don't understand animation times on instant skills. I'm pretty sure it was just poor design. They wanted to have instant skills and already committed to no global cool down so they added in an animation to effectively work as a cast time. Then they added a block system that doesn't make sense for an MMO so they added an attack priority system. They wanted you to be able to block a heavy attack actively as soon as you saw it and already made the skills instant and already committed to no cool down so they were stuck with having block be a priority attack. Since the skills were instant you can get both off.

I do think that we are at a point in the game where everything has been tuned to using animation canceling. I just assumed everyone already did this in PvP but apparently some people think this is new. Before the PTS was public every single guild that was allowed to test the new content ie; trials, vet Coh, Craglorn all used it heavily and openly talked about it. I think all of that content was created assuming people would use it.

Less rework, more just finishing up. They already have the animations done, and that's (possibly) the most tedious part of having casting times. Adding an activation time roughly equal to it (likely a fraction of a second shorter to subvert lag issues and potential mismatches) is all they should be doing. Each skill has a known animation run time. Amending the skills to match that cast time is seemingly a matter of just plugging in numbers, but there could also be some really painful coding involved if ZOS didn't make the code modular enough (ex: instant skills might not have a code line at all for a cast time, and it would have to be painstakingly added).

I've grown accustomed to it, so I don't consider it as "game breaking" as the OP made it out to be, but I cannot turn a blind eye to just plain poor design. ESO deserves better than that low bar they've set for the games performance.

Shunravi · September 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I feell like this would be a good place to leave this;
http://youtu.be/2zGnxeSbb3g
IRL speed archery!

As somebody who practices archery IRL I find this (and similar to it) videos quite funny and I feel I have to respond.

If you notice Lars Andersen's technique, he only draws the bowstring back by a few inches, to the elbow of his left hand. A normal draw is pulling the string back to your chin and depending on your arm length that can be a draw of anywhere from 26 to 32 inches for an adult male. Andersen's draw would not be more than 10-13 inches.

As you can probably imagine every inch you pull the bowstring back, it becomes much and much harder to pull the next inch. The last 3-4 inches of your draw is where all the power is derived from. A draw of 12" does generate half the power of a 26" draw, it in fact generated less than a quarter.

Notice how he shoots targets 4-5 meters away. Shortest range archery is 20m. Long range archery is 90m. His arrows wouldn't even make it that far, let allow penetrate a target at that distance. Not to mention the pitiful accuracy you get as a result of the speed and lack of stability.

There's a reason why archery is long distance and not over 5m. If you're hunting you can never get within 5m of the prey without scaring it away. In the medieval battlefield if the enemy infantry got as close to you as the targets in Andersen video, you were as good as dead. Their shield's and armour would protect them while the just ran through you with sword or spear.

In summary, there's a reason why archery is what it is and not what some internet weirdos who supposedly decyphered some ancient archery techniques make it to out be. That video is as bogus as those "documentaries" about alien abductions.

Oh, I am aware of archery principles and the physics involved

The only real purpose for posting that video was to show how many shots you can get off in a short amount of time. Anything like penetration and range can be explained by *magic*. Also, the physics in nirn are observably different than the physics of our universe...

But for the sake of argument (it's the interwebz, that's what we do here)...

I am also familiar with the use of a bow, though I am likely not as proficient as you. My experience comes mostly from using blunt/padded arrows against my friends doing the same, it's like paintball or airsoft. I guess you could call it combat experience.

From this experience, I would like to debate with you a few things.

1. the minimum range for a bow is the point where you can actually hit the guy with your bowstave. Not 20m. Maybe in archery contests, but not in practical battlefield application. I can leave a pretty significant welt through protective gear at close range with a half-drawn bow. I see no reason I couldent pierce armor with an arrow intended for it, at that range.
2. I don't know if it even has a name, but there is a technique I learned for quickdraw trickshot shooting with a gun. It allows you to shoot a small coin out of the air without really aiming. It's done by throwing consecutively smaller disks into the air, keeping track of your spread. When it is consistant enough, you move down to the next size untill you are able to hit the coin. This is done very fast and without supporting your arm. Accuracy is not all about aiming. This can also be done with a bow.
3. the power of your shot comes from Newtons second law F=ma, the force (power) of the arrow comes from its mass and speed. A longer draw adds more power because the arrow has a longer acceleration period, more time to overcome inertia, and thus more speed (thus more force.) Once the arrow is loosed from the bow, it stops accelerating (not entirely accurate as there will be a change in velocity due to air friction. Stops gaining speed would be better). And modern arrows feel a lot lighter than the arrows I craft in the old style, so there's a mass difference. there are other factors as well, such as the length And construction of the bow, which determines draw length or whatever, but I'm to lazy to do any equations or anything else atm, so I will leave it at that and not go into more of a spiel.
4. I don't know if you have any nature experience, or if you hunt (I assume you bow hunt), but I have been able to get within touching distance of wild animals. Problem is, it's a long, tiresome, and inconsistent thing to do. Striking from range is a far more consistant aporoach.

I'm not debating the merit of his method, nor am I saying it's not 'bogus', because I honestly don't care. The video was only to demonstrate the real life application of rapid firing arrows. Nothing more.

Oh, have you ever used an atlatl? Those things are fun! They also have exceptional range....

Shall we engage in fisticuffs my good sir?

kitsinni · September 2014

Obscure wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Animation canceling is integral to just about every game I can think of that has a skill system. However only one of them that I can think of allows the player to complete a skill or action that is canceled, and that's ESO.

Cancelation should equal cancelation, not activation. Every player should freely be able to cancel his or her animation, and that cancelation should include the action performed. You attack but cancel with a block? The attack is canceled and you are blocking. You use an attack to cancel your block? The block is canceled and you attack. It's not complex or difficult to comprehend.

This is precisely how animation canceling is intended to work as designed by any self respecting professional game designer. The only way to justify this in ESO is to openly accept poor game design as integral to ESO...which judging by the state of the game as it has remained since well before launch, is likely the actual heart of the issue: justification for poor game design.

If an attack is instant with no cooldown and no global cooldown you are not actually canceling the skill. How do you cancel something instant? The skill happened instantly. I also don't know of any other games with a block system like ESO either so that might explain why block functions differently than other games.

Synchronized animations with activation times is what many other games do. The animation code string is often directly tied to the cast time (longer the cast, longer the animation). Skills in ESO that are deemed "instant" have animations much longer than instant, I.E. there is no synchronization between cast and animation. This is very simply put, poor game design.

If you want an example of blocking in specific, take a look at TES V:Skyrim. If you wind up a power attack, then block, the attack is canceled (note: you cannot universally block with all weapons). If you block before an attack animation is complete, the attack is canceled. Even though Skyrim is heavily physics based, that specific principle of game design is not difficult to preserve in a less physics based or a completely non physics based system.

Every skill with an animation time needs an equivalent cast time. The reason casting animations exist is to provide the player a visual cue that they are casting. The present design of ESO with its animations defys this basic concept of game design. If the cast time is instant there should be no animation. If there is an animation the cast time should be identical to it. If a skill can be canceled in animation it should also be canceled in activation. It really truly is that simple and really truly is poor game design.

So what you are really asking for is a rework of the combat system to add cast times to everything because the skills in question don't have a cast time and there is no cool down system in play. If the skills have a cast time then yes blocking should cancel that skill because you didn't finish the cast. If they are instant skills then the block should not be stopped.

I agree that the present design is pretty weak. I don't understand animation times on instant skills. I'm pretty sure it was just poor design. They wanted to have instant skills and already committed to no global cool down so they added in an animation to effectively work as a cast time. Then they added a block system that doesn't make sense for an MMO so they added an attack priority system. They wanted you to be able to block a heavy attack actively as soon as you saw it and already made the skills instant and already committed to no cool down so they were stuck with having block be a priority attack. Since the skills were instant you can get both off.

I do think that we are at a point in the game where everything has been tuned to using animation canceling. I just assumed everyone already did this in PvP but apparently some people think this is new. Before the PTS was public every single guild that was allowed to test the new content ie; trials, vet Coh, Craglorn all used it heavily and openly talked about it. I think all of that content was created assuming people would use it.

Less rework, more just finishing up. They already have the animations done, and that's (possibly) the most tedious part of having casting times. Adding an activation time roughly equal to it (likely a fraction of a second shorter to subvert lag issues and potential mismatches) is all they should be doing. Each skill has a known animation run time. Amending the skills to match that cast time is seemingly a matter of just plugging in numbers, but there could also be some really painful coding involved if ZOS didn't make the code modular enough (ex: instant skills might not have a code line at all for a cast time, and it would have to be painstakingly added).

I've grown accustomed to it, so I don't consider it as "game breaking" as the OP made it out to be, but I cannot turn a blind eye to just plain poor design. ESO deserves better than that low bar they've set for the games performance.

I always thought instant skills with no cool down was a pretty silly game design myself. The problem is if you take it away now DPS for things like trials is going to go down a lot and bosses that have DPS checks will likely not get killed. It would probably lead to even more class discrimination because at that point you really would have to only take certain classes to beat the encounter.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO · September 2014

The problem is not animation-canceling, it's "Snipe" having a "flight-time" so it hits at the same time as light-attack + Venom-arrow creating a burst that is usually unhealable.

Very good equipped VR12 players can take down people having 3k+ hitpoints from 100% to 0% in just a blink sometimes, especially when the target is a Vampire and when they use Camouflaged Hunter for the extra-proc-dmg.

Durham · September 2014

david271749 wrote: »

It's not just bow users who do this.

Correct however the most deadly is bow...

morvegil · September 2014

Someone bitching about bow? I want a machine gun bow

Durham · September 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

This has nothing to do with weapon cancelling.

I don't even play a nightblade, or use bow, OR PVP, and even I know this is just another thread trying to get what they want by making generalizing assumptions about a playstyle they recently got killed by.

Rock: Nerf paper, scissors is fine.
Scissors: Nerf rock, paper is fine.
Paper: Nerf Scissors, rock is fine.

I am so sick of this crap, but mostly because ZOS more than any other gaming company in my 20 years of gaming seems to bend over backwards to cater to it, which just encourages more uninformed assumption threads like this. No offense OP.

A staff and light armor player could just as easily stack spell damage and magicka (more easily, actually), and hold block while spamming an instant cast ability after putting 3 or 4 shields on themselves.

"OMG! We should take away all instant cast abilities! Or give you a 3 second cooldown on being able to block after using an instant cast ability."

More amazing to me than the ridiculousness of this post is that ANY stamina user has managed to find ANY build that is even REMOTELY competitive in ANYTHING.

The balance between magicka and stamina users is sickeningly bad to the point of being a deal breaker in this game, for me, personally. Your mileage may vary.

Nothing is stopping you from light attacking before any ability you use. Why don't YOU learn to play instead of crying for ZOS to change the way the game is built because you don't like how everyone ELSE is playing?

Just a thought.

I think what the poster was getting at was the 1 sec deaths that people are experiencing ... In open field pvp bow is everywhere...Its crazy dps with limited risks espeacially for nbs...

morvegil · September 2014

Durham wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

This has nothing to do with weapon cancelling.

I don't even play a nightblade, or use bow, OR PVP, and even I know this is just another thread trying to get what they want by making generalizing assumptions about a playstyle they recently got killed by.

Rock: Nerf paper, scissors is fine.
Scissors: Nerf rock, paper is fine.
Paper: Nerf Scissors, rock is fine.

I am so sick of this crap, but mostly because ZOS more than any other gaming company in my 20 years of gaming seems to bend over backwards to cater to it, which just encourages more uninformed assumption threads like this. No offense OP.

A staff and light armor player could just as easily stack spell damage and magicka (more easily, actually), and hold block while spamming an instant cast ability after putting 3 or 4 shields on themselves.

"OMG! We should take away all instant cast abilities! Or give you a 3 second cooldown on being able to block after using an instant cast ability."

More amazing to me than the ridiculousness of this post is that ANY stamina user has managed to find ANY build that is even REMOTELY competitive in ANYTHING.

The balance between magicka and stamina users is sickeningly bad to the point of being a deal breaker in this game, for me, personally. Your mileage may vary.

Nothing is stopping you from light attacking before any ability you use. Why don't YOU learn to play instead of crying for ZOS to change the way the game is built because you don't like how everyone ELSE is playing?

Just a thought.

I think what the poster was getting at was the 1 sec deaths that people are experiencing ... In open field pvp bow is everywhere...Its crazy dps with limited risks espeacially for nbs...

Lol unlimited risks? Most of the time if someone knows im shooting them they sit and block and heal. I must be doing something wrong.

PBpsy · September 2014

morvegil wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

This has nothing to do with weapon cancelling.

I don't even play a nightblade, or use bow, OR PVP, and even I know this is just another thread trying to get what they want by making generalizing assumptions about a playstyle they recently got killed by.

Rock: Nerf paper, scissors is fine.
Scissors: Nerf rock, paper is fine.
Paper: Nerf Scissors, rock is fine.

I am so sick of this crap, but mostly because ZOS more than any other gaming company in my 20 years of gaming seems to bend over backwards to cater to it, which just encourages more uninformed assumption threads like this. No offense OP.

A staff and light armor player could just as easily stack spell damage and magicka (more easily, actually), and hold block while spamming an instant cast ability after putting 3 or 4 shields on themselves.

"OMG! We should take away all instant cast abilities! Or give you a 3 second cooldown on being able to block after using an instant cast ability."

More amazing to me than the ridiculousness of this post is that ANY stamina user has managed to find ANY build that is even REMOTELY competitive in ANYTHING.

The balance between magicka and stamina users is sickeningly bad to the point of being a deal breaker in this game, for me, personally. Your mileage may vary.

Nothing is stopping you from light attacking before any ability you use. Why don't YOU learn to play instead of crying for ZOS to change the way the game is built because you don't like how everyone ELSE is playing?

Just a thought.

I think what the poster was getting at was the 1 sec deaths that people are experiencing ... In open field pvp bow is everywhere...Its crazy dps with limited risks espeacially for nbs...

Lol unlimited risks? Most of the time if someone knows im shooting them they sit and block and heal. I must be doing something wrong.

If they know you shoot at them you done it wrong. I get ganked and killed by snipe, bow attack , poison arrow ,ambush often enough.It is completely unexpected and unavoidable and I forgot to have my Annulment up, Blocking doesn't really help since one does not permanently block and the gank sequence last less then 3 seconds and if there is enough lag you only see the death recap.. If you however do something stupid like Mark target I purge &cloack get away inner light, ambush , Mass Hysteria and kill you while you run like a headless chicken with your little bow.

morvegil · September 2014

PBpsy wrote: »

morvegil wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

This has nothing to do with weapon cancelling.

I don't even play a nightblade, or use bow, OR PVP, and even I know this is just another thread trying to get what they want by making generalizing assumptions about a playstyle they recently got killed by.

Rock: Nerf paper, scissors is fine.
Scissors: Nerf rock, paper is fine.
Paper: Nerf Scissors, rock is fine.

I am so sick of this crap, but mostly because ZOS more than any other gaming company in my 20 years of gaming seems to bend over backwards to cater to it, which just encourages more uninformed assumption threads like this. No offense OP.

A staff and light armor player could just as easily stack spell damage and magicka (more easily, actually), and hold block while spamming an instant cast ability after putting 3 or 4 shields on themselves.

"OMG! We should take away all instant cast abilities! Or give you a 3 second cooldown on being able to block after using an instant cast ability."

More amazing to me than the ridiculousness of this post is that ANY stamina user has managed to find ANY build that is even REMOTELY competitive in ANYTHING.

The balance between magicka and stamina users is sickeningly bad to the point of being a deal breaker in this game, for me, personally. Your mileage may vary.

Nothing is stopping you from light attacking before any ability you use. Why don't YOU learn to play instead of crying for ZOS to change the way the game is built because you don't like how everyone ELSE is playing?

Just a thought.

I think what the poster was getting at was the 1 sec deaths that people are experiencing ... In open field pvp bow is everywhere...Its crazy dps with limited risks espeacially for nbs...

Lol unlimited risks? Most of the time if someone knows im shooting them they sit and block and heal. I must be doing something wrong.

If they know you shoot at them you done it wrong. I get ganked and killed by snipe, bow attack , poison arrow ,ambush often enough.It is completely unexpected and unavoidable and I forgot to have my Annulment up, Blocking doesn't really help since one does not permanently block and the gank sequence last less then 3 seconds and if there is enough lag you only see the death recap.. If you however do something stupid like Mark target I purge &cloack get away inner light, ambush , Mass Hysteria and kill you while you run like a headless chicken with your little bow.

lol ok..thanks for the tips...now ill kill more.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · September 2014

I guess the biggest problem "pro" bow users have is that no one is paying them.

Varicite · September 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I guess the biggest problem "pro" bow users have is that no one is paying them.

There's always the Olympics then, I guess...

butterfly442 · September 2014

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

butterfly442 wrote: »

michaelb14a_ESO2 wrote: »

5 months into the game with weapon and melee/stamina builds being sorely under powered and at the first hint of improvement people start cryin'?

Seriously?

Cheating is cheating. Weaving is animation canceling is cheating. No matter how you look at it, Zos did not intend for you to get extra attacks. Reporting and revealing this technique is crying to you. To me it is getting things fixed.

It needs fixed. Every other character in Cyrodil is doing this now. There are probably billions of little noob characters being created every second to join in on this spam fest.

erm, like it or hate it ZOS stated that it's not cheating. It's unexpected but not an exploit.

This thread reads like the hate /tells I get from people I kill with the bow, I get messages from people on my faction claiming my 1.4k snipe isn't powerful enough and I get messages from the enemy that I don't even use snipe on moaning that bow is OP because I killed them 1v1.

That's before you get to the forums and the freak out you get the moment you say that bow's a pretty solid weapon.

Post a link you ninny.

butterfly442 · September 2014

ArconSeptim wrote: »

This OP is whiner, I had enourmuous count of NB encounter and they all got killed or run away from me, I'm a DK and this is not a template for others, they key is just knowing how to counter idiots with bows.

No one is talking about NBs. We all know the only thing they are good for is crafting and being mules.

I'm talking about every other class using animation canceling. Cleverly disguised as a bow user thread. Anyone can be bow users. People with 1/2 a brain know all other classes are better as bow users over NBs.

Yes, my main is an NB.

tordr86b16_ESO · September 2014

butterfly442 wrote: »

ArconSeptim wrote: »

This OP is whiner, I had enourmuous count of NB encounter and they all got killed or run away from me, I'm a DK and this is not a template for others, they key is just knowing how to counter idiots with bows.

No one is talking about NBs. We all know the only thing they are good for is crafting and being mules.

I'm talking about every other class using animation canceling. Cleverly disguised as a bow user thread. Anyone can be bow users. People with 1/2 a brain know all other classes are better as bow users over NBs.

Yes, my main is an NB.

Actually, NB is best with bow, templars on the other hand is terrible.

butterfly442 · September 2014

This is still the best way to run any character.

Mumyo · September 2014

Well i am a stamina based templar and i dont ahve any problems with players like that.... actually i kill those archers pretty easy

Nestor · September 2014

So, Melee has a way to actually do something in a fight and this is a problem? How?

ZeroTheCat · September 2014

DDuke wrote: »

I will venture a wild guess and assume the op has a vampire character wearing 7/7 light armour, with batswarm and impulse on his bar and hasn't deemed getting over 3k health important at all.

I might be wrong of course.

Yeah how can someone seriously complain about bows in pvp when this sh-t exists. This and that ridiculous DK skill reflective scales. Nerf that first then we can talk about balance...