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Why make DKs so powerful...
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
jep it is rock, paper, scissor while dks are spock...GunemCleric wrote: »This is rock, paper, scissors, you can QQ or l2p, but get over it and learn how things work or find something your speed.
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »Ranged players need to learn this:
1. See wings
2. Count: One-one thousand, two-one thousand, three-one thousand, four
3. Fire
4. Repeat
I kill DKs on my Bow NB all day every day. NO ONE (no matter how good they are) casts Scales every 4 seconds. NO ONE.
3 or 4 times is very common. Using Syrabane restores magicka.www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO40 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭
Could you share your build with us?
5 piece hawk eye, 5 piece night silence
Bow - Poison Arrow, Impale, Shadowy Cloak, Focussed Aim, Marked Target - Flawless Dawnbreaker
2h - Stampede, Uppercut, Shadow Disguise, Executioner, Momentum- Flawless Dawnbreaker
Magicka - 1400
Health - 2400
Stamina - 2600
Overcapped in weapon damage too.
This build does good damage to many, except DKs.www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO40 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭maxilaub17_ESO wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »Everyone else can be beaten, DKS all use the same skills at the same time. Bloody dull. Kills the game.
The #1 class I kill by a wide margin on my kill counter is...... DK's. I'm not sure what your doing wrong?
Actually this is the case but the reason is obvious. most bad players will eventually roll a DK or snork.ESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)2 -
Redlag✭✭✭It's easy as a DK. I stopped playing my NB Monday. Made Thornblade my home with my DK and made 250k over the weekend running around with my wife. I have died in those 250k about 5 times to solo NBs. Three times with bow stamina builds (which NB shouldn't be pigeonholed into if wearing plate isn't forced on DKs and other B/S skirt wearing classes). The 4th time while being chain ambushed 6 times and I typed /lol instead of fighting back. The Fifth and last time was to one who took me down faster than I could get off my siege weapon and heal myself to kill him.
To the above refering to count to 4. I count to 4 before refreshing it. If Im solo running somewhere. I know that when my Magicka regens to 100% it's about to expire (LOL). When Im in the back of a war at a keep. I like to stealth around cast spell reflect. Unsteath while it's up and then restealth to recast it. Making it look like Im moving around trying to regen or save stamina, but really want to stealth because Im so scared. When I hear the arrow I turn and charge the NB. Yep, lots of dodge roll stamina. It's almost pathetic following him lava whipping, waiting for his cloak so I can cast talons and unstealth him again. It's pretty desperate.0 -
GwaynLoki✭✭✭jelliedsoup wrote: »
Could you share your build with us?
5 piece hawk eye, 5 piece night silence
Bow - Poison Arrow, Impale, Shadowy Cloak, Focussed Aim, Marked Target - Flawless Dawnbreaker
2h - Stampede, Uppercut, Shadow Disguise, Executioner, Momentum- Flawless Dawnbreaker
Magicka - 1400
Health - 2400
Stamina - 2600
Overcapped in weapon damage too.
This build does good damage to many, except DKs.
Where to start.
1. You are running an all-out-offensive build against a class that is by design
tanky
2. You are trying to fight said tanky class without any healing while the class
has a burst-heal
3. You are fighting without a healing debuff despite knowing about your
most despised/difficult opponent-class most likely running a healing skill
5. You are fighting a class which has as its main source DoTs without any
condition removal
6. You are not using the best cc ability of your class nor the best stamina-
draining one (on your enemy that is)
You say you are doing nicely - from stealth I assume - against 3 of 4 classes, despite not running any substantial cc, condition removal or heal. Would you really say you should be able to roll all other classes by default?
4 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »How to defeat any DK:
Step 1: Level up your Alliance War "Assault" skill line to 6
Step 2: Learn "Caltrops"
Step 3: Cast Caltrops on the DK
Step 4: Kill the defenseless (aka "no stamina left") DK
Any questions?
Yeah, I got one.
When fighting/duelling a DK the first resource you need to keep an eye on is Stamina. The moment you can no longer block, dodge, whatever, is the moment you'll get shield charged down and whipped to death.
So with the above in mind, how does spending 800+ of your available stamina (which is 2/3 of your pool for magicka builds) on Caltrops give you an edge in Stamina resource management exactly?
Its called a stamina potion.
Oh wow, thanks. I heard DKs can use them too though so....
If you are running into a DK that seems to be able to block forever, he probably has 5 heavy. He's not running top DPS, so you DO have the option to avoid the fight. I don't get why people think they need to be able to kill every build with their build. Rock/paper/scissors.
You need to read what you're responding to, before you do.
He said the best way to take down DKs, is to use caltrops to eat their stamina. I pointed out that caltrops cost a bomb on stamina, leaving you short for the fight with the dk. He said he uses potion and I responded with the obvious fact that DKs use potions too and that don't change the fact you start the fight -840 stamina which puts you at a disadvantage for the rest of the fight.
The whole rock/paper/scissors analogy is irrelevant in the context of the conversation we had.EU | PC | AD2 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭People I can't stress this enough. If you are doing anything in pvp, run efficient purge on at least one bar.
I was testing out a new build and forgot just that. So naturally I got marked immediately.
So easy to purge, not to mention things like oil. You must have purge!Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.1 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »How to defeat any DK:
Step 1: Level up your Alliance War "Assault" skill line to 6
Step 2: Learn "Caltrops"
Step 3: Cast Caltrops on the DK
Step 4: Kill the defenseless (aka "no stamina left") DK
Any questions?
Yeah, I got one.
When fighting/duelling a DK the first resource you need to keep an eye on is Stamina. The moment you can no longer block, dodge, whatever, is the moment you'll get shield charged down and whipped to death.
So with the above in mind, how does spending 800+ of your available stamina (which is 2/3 of your pool for magicka builds) on Caltrops give you an edge in Stamina resource management exactly?
Its called a stamina potion.
Which means they also could have one!!!
You are right though it is a case of finding a strategy to kill one, which comes back to the original OP Thread, why is it you have to for DK's and no other Class. With my NB I can put down the other classes, but for DK's I need a totally different set up, cos we all know they won't go down easy.
The simple fact is, people are aware they are better than other classes in PVP for surviveability, a good DK can stand and take on large group and Kill the majority before they are felled. This is not the case with other classes...the rest have to run away!0 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭@gwaynloki
Yes without stealth my character would be a waste of time. Why shouldn't I expect to roll some same level DKs?
1. Yes, but the difference is defence beats attack, and the Dk has the luxury of DPS too. NBs don't have any decent defence. They are by nature offensive.
2. The healing of NB is not good, so why waste resources/skills trying to use something which provides no relative use.
3. Yes I agree I should use lethal arrow.
6. Which is? I could use Fear and shades, but I really dislike them both.
It appears I need to change my build to counter DKs.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO44 -
cazlonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Lethal arrow + Dark flare = target can't heal itself......win.
This doesn't work well in 1vs1 situations. Pretty much all DKs will want to get into melee range to whip you and use standard and using abilities with that long casting time will open a huge window to do just that.
Works great in skirmishes with several players though, when the DK does not focus on you. Typical scenario: Several allies are wailing on the DK and barely make a dent in his health. I cast Dark Flare ( and it actually hits, another huge problem with these two skills ) and he's going down.0 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭I'm a PVE Tank DK - havent really set up gear for PVP properly but all I can tell you is you need to understand the weakness of the class.
DK's biggest weakness is outside of melee range their abilities are useless. So try not to stay within if you can help it.
Also you know their biggest strength is Green Dragon Blood so be ready with a stun lock at low levels to finish them off.
From what I read they seem to be like Paladin in WoW where they could heal themselves up fully.
I am not one for PVP but I'm really close to putting a set and getting into it.0 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Just so much...
If I had respect for your posts, that would really hurt my feelings.
If.......www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO46 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭NBs in this thread who say they are beating DKs with abc are really saying I've beaten a DK before and this is what I used., big difference.
Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard1 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭jelliedsoup wrote: »Everyone else can be beaten, DKS all use the same skills at the same time. Bloody dull. Kills the game.
I'm a DK and my build is 10x different then the standard copy and paste build that you probably see (I'm a bow tank DK).
I also have a V12 NB that kills a lot of the people who just hold block in PvP, get 2 shades and lets them sit there and attack (re-apply them if needed) and it just drains someones stamina while you stay at a distance, That is how I kill most DK's on my NB.
~Thallen~1 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭@bosmern_ESO Thanks, it appears this is the way to kill DKs. I'm a little bit disappointed that if you need to use a certain skill against a certain build.
They need to revamp the 360 blocking and cast/blocking too.
Iwww.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO43 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Shades might work in the little leagues, but not at the top. Sure if you are fighting a part timer or quester under level cap, shades might confuse them.bosmern_ESO wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »Everyone else can be beaten, DKS all use the same skills at the same time. Bloody dull. Kills the game.
I'm a DK and my build is 10x different then the standard copy and paste build that you probably see (I'm a bow tank DK).
I also have a V12 NB that kills a lot of the people who just hold block in PvP, get 2 shades and lets them sit there and attack (re-apply them if needed) and it just drains someones stamina while you stay at a distance, That is how I kill most DK's on my NB.
The number of times you will burst down a v14 epic plus DK with shades > ambush > Surprise > Blade is next to nill.Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard3 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Shades might work in the little leagues, but not at the top. Sure if you are fighting a part timer or quester under level cap, shades might confuse them.bosmern_ESO wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »Everyone else can be beaten, DKS all use the same skills at the same time. Bloody dull. Kills the game.
I'm a DK and my build is 10x different then the standard copy and paste build that you probably see (I'm a bow tank DK).
I also have a V12 NB that kills a lot of the people who just hold block in PvP, get 2 shades and lets them sit there and attack (re-apply them if needed) and it just drains someones stamina while you stay at a distance, That is how I kill most DK's on my NB.
The number of times you will burst down a v14 epic plus DK with shades > ambush > Surprise > Blade is next to nill.
Define small leagues and top leagues. In duelling competitions against top DKs, most (if not all) NBs run shades.
Not because they confuse the DK, but because he has to lower his shield block if he doesn't want to to run out of stamina early in the fight.
The shades do rubbish damage. Every decent DK knows that. However blocking a hit that does 10dmg costs as much stamina as blocking a hit that does 1,000dmg. And the shades along with the fearing can really hurt a DKs stamina management.
You cannot burst down a DK when you're out of stealth. You flat out can't. My DK can heal more dmg then a NB can put out and be left in better position (mana-wise) afterwards. The only way you can win is by wearing him down, instead of blowing your resources on trying to harm him.Edited by Maulkin on September 25, 2014 12:18AMEU | PC | AD3 -
vokage89✭✭✭lol wow more qqing about DKs and block casting huh... i rolled a NB just to prove that you could kill one...you can.. get over yourself..." no im not going to tell you how"
and block casting... EVERY class can block cast!! not broken at all.. its actualy apart of resourse managment..... my god....
how about you wine about something that is actualy broken...
or if not broken .. would help to define a class better..
eg. NBs havin passive stealth boost since stacking sets of armor is too much i guess.. i didnt stack i just used NS its was enough...boost concealed weapon or somthing...
or even something little like not being able to cast BE while falling...seems small..
but i bet some of these sorcs know what im talkin about...
templar... for healing... i would revamp healing ritual.. i find this skill very boring...
maby a another hot or somthing... idk
DK.. nothing rly wrong with DKs imho... only thing i dont like is the dragon blood animation...
Edited by vokage89 on September 25, 2014 12:25AM2 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I think we are on the same page, atleast almost. You just don't simply wear down a DK. In Cyrodiil things do not happen in a vacuum. Your kill windows are short. Wearing down over the course of 30+ secs of sneaking and shading just isn't practical. On top of that it takes some luck too.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
Shades might work in the little leagues, but not at the top. Sure if you are fighting a part timer or quester under level cap, shades might confuse them.bosmern_ESO wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »Everyone else can be beaten, DKS all use the same skills at the same time. Bloody dull. Kills the game.
I'm a DK and my build is 10x different then the standard copy and paste build that you probably see (I'm a bow tank DK).
I also have a V12 NB that kills a lot of the people who just hold block in PvP, get 2 shades and lets them sit there and attack (re-apply them if needed) and it just drains someones stamina while you stay at a distance, That is how I kill most DK's on my NB.
The number of times you will burst down a v14 epic plus DK with shades > ambush > Surprise > Blade is next to nill.
Define small leagues and top leagues. In duelling competitions against top DKs, most (if not all) NBs run shades.
Not because they confuse the DK, but because he has to lower his shield block if he doesn't want to to run out of stamina early in the fight.
The shades do rubbish damage. Every decent DK knows that. However blocking a hit that does 10dmg costs as much stamina as blocking a hit that does 1,000dmg. And the shades along with the fearing can really hurt a DKs stamina management.
You cannot burst down a DK when you're out of stealth. You flat out can't. My DK can heal more dmg then a NB can put out and be left in better position (mana-wise) afterwards. The only way you can win is by wearing him down, instead of blowing your resources on trying to harm him.
Maybe when/if ZOS offers 1 v 1 arena shades will have more value. Until then...
Edited by TheBull on September 25, 2014 12:27AMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Shades might work in the little leagues, but not at the top. Sure if you are fighting a part timer or quester under level cap, shades might confuse them.bosmern_ESO wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »Everyone else can be beaten, DKS all use the same skills at the same time. Bloody dull. Kills the game.
I'm a DK and my build is 10x different then the standard copy and paste build that you probably see (I'm a bow tank DK).
I also have a V12 NB that kills a lot of the people who just hold block in PvP, get 2 shades and lets them sit there and attack (re-apply them if needed) and it just drains someones stamina while you stay at a distance, That is how I kill most DK's on my NB.
The number of times you will burst down a v14 epic plus DK with shades > ambush > Surprise > Blade is next to nill.
I believe you misunderstand the purpose of shades. Its not to confuse someone or anything stupid like that. Its a defensive ability meant to reduce an enemies damage, and wear out their block.
And why in the world are you trying to burst down a maxed out DK? That's just not going to work. And why would you lead with shades in a burst scenario?This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think DKs are the best class at maintaining killing power while also being tanky. DKs can be beaten by someone that understands their abilities, but I agree that it is generally harder to take them down than any other class. Templar are a close second because a really tanky Templar is going to hit like a wet noodle as long as you know how to deal with jabs and don't kill yourself on blazing shield.Edited by timidobserver on September 25, 2014 12:50AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
Shades might work in the little leagues, but not at the top. Sure if you are fighting a part timer or quester under level cap, shades might confuse them.bosmern_ESO wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »Everyone else can be beaten, DKS all use the same skills at the same time. Bloody dull. Kills the game.
I'm a DK and my build is 10x different then the standard copy and paste build that you probably see (I'm a bow tank DK).
I also have a V12 NB that kills a lot of the people who just hold block in PvP, get 2 shades and lets them sit there and attack (re-apply them if needed) and it just drains someones stamina while you stay at a distance, That is how I kill most DK's on my NB.
The number of times you will burst down a v14 epic plus DK with shades > ambush > Surprise > Blade is next to nill.
Define small leagues and top leagues. In duelling competitions against top DKs, most (if not all) NBs run shades.
Not because they confuse the DK, but because he has to lower his shield block if he doesn't want to to run out of stamina early in the fight.
The shades do rubbish damage. Every decent DK knows that. However blocking a hit that does 10dmg costs as much stamina as blocking a hit that does 1,000dmg. And the shades along with the fearing can really hurt a DKs stamina management.
You cannot burst down a DK when you're out of stealth. You flat out can't. My DK can heal more dmg then a NB can put out and be left in better position (mana-wise) afterwards.The only way you can win is by wearing him down, instead of blowing your resources on trying to harm him.
I think we are on the same page, at least almost. You just don't simply wear down a DK. In Cyrodiil things do not happen in a vacuum. Your kill windows are short. Wearing down over the course of 30+ secs of sneaking and shading just isn't practical. On top of that it takes some luck too.
Maybe when/if ZOS offers 1 v 1 arena shades will have more value. Until then...
I'm not really sure what you're trying to get to? I assumed the complains were for when you're taking a DK 1v1. In those, rare admittedly, situations you can and must wear him down.
99% of the fights in Cyro there's a lot of other players involved of course. You complain is what? That in a skirmish between groups, where you have a 5-sec "kill window" against a DK before others arrive, you fail to burst down the tankiest class in the game? What sort of tanky class would that be if it couldn't hold you off for a few secs?
And the issue is not just with DKs as so many people in this thread are saying. Have you tried to get through a Templar tank's heals and shields? Good luck with that too.Edited by Maulkin on September 25, 2014 12:50AMEU | PC | AD1 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭nvmEdited by TheBull on September 25, 2014 12:49AMKilled by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard1 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭
That you fail to grasp why block casting is not beneficial to stam builds shows your lack of insight, notthing else.lol wow more qqing about DKs and block casting huh... i rolled a NB just to prove that you could kill one...you can.. get over yourself..." no im not going to tell you how"
and block casting... EVERY class can block cast!! not broken at all.. its actualy apart of resourse managment..... my god....
how about you wine about something that is actualy broken...
or if not broken .. would help to define a class better..
eg. NBs havin passive stealth boost since stacking sets of armor is too much i guess.. i didnt stack i just used NS its was enough...boost concealed weapon or somthing...
or even something little like not being able to cast BE while falling...seems small..
but i bet some of these sorcs know what im talkin about...
templar... for healing... i would revamp healing ritual.. i find this skill very boring...
maby a another hot or somthing... idk
DK.. nothing rly wrong with DKs imho... only thing i dont like is the dragon blood animation...
Edited by jelliedsoup on September 25, 2014 1:06AMwww.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO42 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
Shades might work in the little leagues, but not at the top. Sure if you are fighting a part timer or quester under level cap, shades might confuse them.bosmern_ESO wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »Everyone else can be beaten, DKS all use the same skills at the same time. Bloody dull. Kills the game.
I'm a DK and my build is 10x different then the standard copy and paste build that you probably see (I'm a bow tank DK).
I also have a V12 NB that kills a lot of the people who just hold block in PvP, get 2 shades and lets them sit there and attack (re-apply them if needed) and it just drains someones stamina while you stay at a distance, That is how I kill most DK's on my NB.
The number of times you will burst down a v14 epic plus DK with shades > ambush > Surprise > Blade is next to nill.
Define small leagues and top leagues. In duelling competitions against top DKs, most (if not all) NBs run shades.
Not because they confuse the DK, but because he has to lower his shield block if he doesn't want to to run out of stamina early in the fight.
The shades do rubbish damage. Every decent DK knows that. However blocking a hit that does 10dmg costs as much stamina as blocking a hit that does 1,000dmg. And the shades along with the fearing can really hurt a DKs stamina management.
You cannot burst down a DK when you're out of stealth. You flat out can't. My DK can heal more dmg then a NB can put out and be left in better position (mana-wise) afterwards.The only way you can win is by wearing him down, instead of blowing your resources on trying to harm him.
I think we are on the same page, at least almost. You just don't simply wear down a DK. In Cyrodiil things do not happen in a vacuum. Your kill windows are short. Wearing down over the course of 30+ secs of sneaking and shading just isn't practical. On top of that it takes some luck too.
Maybe when/if ZOS offers 1 v 1 arena shades will have more value. Until then...
I'm not really sure what you're trying to get to? I assumed the complains were for when you're taking a DK 1v1. In those, rare admittedly, situations you can and must wear him down.
99% of the fights in Cyro there's a lot of other players involved of course. You complain is what? That in a skirmish between groups, where you have a 5-sec "kill window" against a DK before others arrive, you fail to burst down the tankiest class in the game? What sort of tanky class would that be if it couldn't hold you off for a few secs?
And the issue is not just with DKs as so many people in this thread are saying. Have you tried to get through a Templar tank's heals and shields? Good luck with that too.
I know, why do dks get such bad press?www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO40 -
InvictoNZ✭✭✭Range: resto heavy attack
Melee: impulse (or any AE)
Watch a DK try to shield block or wings those.
0
