Why make DKs so powerful...

eventide03b14a_ESO

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

All the devs play DK vampire emperors. It's science.

And they somehow have BE too.

PharmaChief

jelliedsoup wrote: »

@bosmern_ESO Thanks, it appears this is the way to kill DKs. I'm a little bit disappointed that if you need to use a certain skill against a certain build.

They need to revamp the 360 blocking and cast/blocking too.

I

Cast blocking is ok in my opinion. My only annoyance in this games PVP is 360 degree blocking which makes no sense. Attacking someone from behind SHOULD be the way to brake his block. Anyway the pvp in this game is "many vs many" and not 1vs1. Its not meant to be balanced in a way that anyone can kill anyone easily. The trick is teamwork and doing the role your class is designed for. NB's should go against the bowmen and sorcerers of enemy team leaving the heavy armor guys without support to be taken down by the heavies on your team... Its not easy and i am not really good at it but that is the way its meant to be in my opinion.

dharbert

For those of you who haven't figured it out yet, Cyrodiil is not an arena. It's not meant to be 1-on-1 fighting. It takes teamwork.

I always get a laugh out of loading up my DK with nothing but tank and heal skills, then have a single player try to engage me. Meanwhile, I'm laughing off your attacks while one or two of my buddies beat you to death with a lead pipe because you are too preoccupied with trying to kill me.

Erock25

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Ranged players need to learn this:

1. See wings
2. Count: One-one thousand, two-one thousand, three-one thousand, four
3. Fire
4. Repeat

I kill DKs on my Bow NB all day every day. NO ONE (no matter how good they are) casts Scales every 4 seconds. NO ONE.

The better the player, the higher the scale up-time. Though I do agree this generally works, especially if you are not his sole target. As a DK I have Focused Aim or Lethal Arrow in my death recap quite a lot.

However, if I survive and spot the culprit I go for him and I make sure I keep them wings flapping every 4 secs. If I manage to close the gap first he'll be dead in seconds 9/10 times.

If a sorcerer has BE on his hotbar he should be able to out maneuver a DK with no problem and stay at range.

Invasion + Talons means I'm running through my stamina way too quickly to be able to EASILY out maneuver him.

Durham

mriguy1981 wrote: »

As a nb also, I don't 1v1 them ever. I just try to wait till like 5 people are beating onthem then I try to shoot some arrows and help kill them. Somethimes it works. Zos will not even try to fix pvp so I gave up even asking why are they so *** powerful and my class is a little boy in comparison.

Nbs are crazy good in pvp NBs with me are always taking dks down...

Lionxoft

DK + Syrabane||Warlock + Class shield->Harness Magicka... Bring on that 5+vs1. You're all toast.

A constant flood of Magicka, 10% class block mitigation, reflected projectiles, ridiculous heal... Yeesh.

Well, as long as you don't debuff them. You really should be debuffing them.

I played my DK for a good bit the last couple of days for the first time in a long while. I shelved him because he is just so stinkin' powerful that it made me feel guilty of cheese. I remember that feeling now. With exception to ranged dps, DK is so well rounded it's sickening.

/ShelvedAgain.

To answer the Topic Title:
They made them powerful so that some PvP videos could be made. "1vsx ZOMGSKDFKFJSDLF DK NA"

Mendoze

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes and no.

Yes in that there is a indeed cookie cutter DK S&B build, which can be effective at taking any opponent on. On the other hand the same applies to pretty much every class. The question is do you want to play the effective build or not.

The best way to play a DK is as you described. Yet I see DK archers, 2h'ers and dual wielders every day. I see a lot of caster DKs with Destro Staff and crushing shock for range. A lot of people play how they want play and don't care if that's not the most efficient combo.

I see Sorcs and Templars with cookie cutter builds all day long.

Sorc builds with: CF, Fury, Curse, Streak
Templars with: Invasion, Biting Jabs, Blazing Shield, Rushed Ceremony , Blazing Spear

These builds can and do kill DKs all day long. You don't need a "DK Killer" build in particular. I'm not sure what the most effective build is for a survivable nightblade (the only class I haven't played past level 10), but I know it includes Mass Hysteria in there which is probably the best CC in the game and that is something the OP does not want to consider.

Yes, I see cookie cutter build or melee sorcerers every day too, but normal cookier cutter builds don't work against DK. Templar is only class whose cookie cutter has a chance against DK ( Blazing Shield spam ). Sorcerer and NB builds just don't work.

Sorcerer: CF, Fury, Curse, Streak
With Reflective Scales up, we can't use CF and even if it we could, stun won't work because DK is blocking 100% time, and still spamming Flame Lash. Fury execute actually gets reflected, so we can't use that either if we somehow get DK to execute range. So all we have left is curse, and that's like 600+ damage every 3,5 seconds. Can't even use heavy attacks, because then we can't block. Fury itself makes like 250 damage unblocked, so good luck trying to kill a DK with it. Talons don't give any kind of CC immunity, so there's not even any point of trying to get out of them, so only option is to Bolt Escape away and then DK can use Invasion to glose the gap immediately. So in reality it's bolt away for as long as you have magicka left. I hardly call that as a working build against DKs.

NB: If DK survives the first burst, NBs have chances like a snowball in hell. I don't think it matters if NB is melee or ranged, because DK will use invasion to close the gap immediately anyway. NBs don't even have the luxury of BE, because Cloak is totally useless against talon spammin DKs. Only thing I can see would help a NB against DK is Mass Hysteria, but Talons still take NB out of stamina fast, and then it's game over. Maybe caster NB could win, and I personally haven't played veteran level NB so I'm not specialist here, but I still assume that NB has very little chance to stand toe-to-toe with a DK. If I'm wrong, I'm glad for NBs and I'll admit my mistake immediately.

Templar: Well, IMO templars have tons of options to take DKs down. Blazing Shard ( procs ), Blazing Shield, Backlash, Blinding Flashes and of course Total Dark + Dark Flare. On top of that they can also heal. That's why I'm leveling a Templar to put those DKs back to their place But like I said, sorcerers and NBs are really helpless against DKs with their cookie cutter builds.

I'm sure that sorcerer with 1h/Shield + Defensive Posture and Boundless Storm ( 6% chance for disintegrate procs ) has a much better chance against a DK, but against 100% blocking DK it's still going to be hard. It offers more survivability for sure, but it also gimps your magicka regen ( resto heavy attack ) and DPS ( light attack weaving ) quite a lot, so your overall ranged ability goes down a lot. Also very few sorcerer wants to be in the front lines because we can't heal. So yes, I think sorcerers can kill DKs, but they have to spec for it, while DK cookier cutter still rocks in pretty much every situation.

Long story short, I'd just like to see buffs for other classes. For example sorcerers have a nice root spell, but it's so expensive that nobody uses it. Daedric Tomb is another example, that looks like a great defensive skill, but way too expensive to ever use. Critical Surge is great for PVE, but totally useless in PVP. I'm sure NBs have similar skills too, that look good in paper, but in practice they are next to useless. DKs are just fortunate that their skills are really working, and I don't want to see those working skills nerfed to the ground, but I'd like to see other classes to have working skill lines too.

Muizer

I wouldn't mind if they lowered the DK's defensive abilities, but only if they make heavy armour effectively much stronger than light armour. I play a DK tank in heavy armour and I think that's more or less how it's supposed to play. If at present you can tank as well (or better) in light armour, then transferring some of the defensive benefits from DK to heavy armour would make sense IMHO.

vokage89

jelliedsoup wrote: »

vokage89 wrote: »

lol wow more qqing about DKs and block casting huh... i rolled a NB just to prove that you could kill one...you can.. get over yourself..." no im not going to tell you how"
and block casting... EVERY class can block cast!! not broken at all.. its actualy apart of resourse managment..... my god....

how about you wine about something that is actualy broken...
or if not broken .. would help to define a class better..

eg. NBs havin passive stealth boost since stacking sets of armor is too much i guess.. i didnt stack i just used NS its was enough...boost concealed weapon or somthing...

or even something little like not being able to cast BE while falling...seems small..
but i bet some of these sorcs know what im talkin about...

templar... for healing... i would revamp healing ritual.. i find this skill very boring...
maby a another hot or somthing... idk

DK.. nothing rly wrong with DKs imho... only thing i dont like is the dragon blood animation...

That you fail to grasp why block casting is not beneficial to stam builds shows your lack of insight, notthing else.

LOL you can block and cast with your horrible stam build ... i had a talk about this the other day with ppl in zone...

you cannot block and channle/cast..... e.g uppercut .....

and if you are making your whole build around stam.. you doin it wrong anyway.

jelliedsoup

vokage89 wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

vokage89 wrote: »

lol wow more qqing about DKs and block casting huh... i rolled a NB just to prove that you could kill one...you can.. get over yourself..." no im not going to tell you how"
and block casting... EVERY class can block cast!! not broken at all.. its actualy apart of resourse managment..... my god....

how about you wine about something that is actualy broken...
or if not broken .. would help to define a class better..

eg. NBs havin passive stealth boost since stacking sets of armor is too much i guess.. i didnt stack i just used NS its was enough...boost concealed weapon or somthing...

or even something little like not being able to cast BE while falling...seems small..
but i bet some of these sorcs know what im talkin about...

templar... for healing... i would revamp healing ritual.. i find this skill very boring...
maby a another hot or somthing... idk

DK.. nothing rly wrong with DKs imho... only thing i dont like is the dragon blood animation...

That you fail to grasp why block casting is not beneficial to stam builds shows your lack of insight, notthing else.

LOL you can block and cast with your horrible stam build ... i had a talk about this the other day with ppl in zone...

you cannot block and channle/cast..... e.g uppercut .....

and if you are making your whole build around stam.. you doin it wrong anyway.

You seemed to have missed every point I've made.

Why would someone case block with a stam build? Yes my point is I cannot use stam skills and block...

Oh your point is it's wrong because you said so.

I hope you're trolling.

Sunrock

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Everyone else can be beaten, DKS all use the same skills at the same time. Bloody dull. Kills the game.

Its Elderscrolls Online lore that DK's are OP

Sav72

AreoHotah wrote: »

As a nb play sneaky and you have big chances to kill him 1 on 1. Im vr 14, with soft capped weapon damage and stamina on my bow build.
From stealth (and from sides or back not front) and just in range of snipe use snipe on him, while the arrow is in the air use marked target while closing on to him so you can use venom arrow 2 or 3 times fast (he will be stuned abit after that snipe). I usually have them on 30% hp at that point. Then just destroy them with inpale (does 300% more damage on low targets) but if he still not dead your ultimate should be full by then.

Play smart, know how he thinks. Good luck.

PS : I have full legendary gear with full legendary enchantement so thats max dps right there.

This works with ONE shot, once a DK has been attack..Reflect goes up, Sheild goes up, does not matter which side DK is facing you will not damage them....
Over 150k in re-specs to figure out a way to get by ABSORB, REFLECT and BLOCK!!!!

What I do now is, I mesmerize them with my Ice Wraith Pet... as I try to run and hide away,and wait for the DAM..out of combat as a Stealther!!!!../sarcasm off

Probitas

jelliedsoup wrote: »

GwaynLoki wrote: »

Could you share your build with us?

5 piece hawk eye, 5 piece night silence

Bow - Poison Arrow, Impale, Shadowy Cloak, Focussed Aim, Marked Target - Flawless Dawnbreaker
2h - Stampede, Uppercut, Shadow Disguise, Executioner, Momentum- Flawless Dawnbreaker

Magicka - 1400
Health - 2400
Stamina - 2600

Overcapped in weapon damage too.

This build does good damage to many, except DKs.

Uhm, there are 7 armor pieces and a max of 2 weapon slots, total of 9. How are you able to have 5 of one set and 5 of another?

Maulkin

Mendoze wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes and no.

Yes in that there is a indeed cookie cutter DK S&B build, which can be effective at taking any opponent on. On the other hand the same applies to pretty much every class. The question is do you want to play the effective build or not.

The best way to play a DK is as you described. Yet I see DK archers, 2h'ers and dual wielders every day. I see a lot of caster DKs with Destro Staff and crushing shock for range. A lot of people play how they want play and don't care if that's not the most efficient combo.

I see Sorcs and Templars with cookie cutter builds all day long.

Sorc builds with: CF, Fury, Curse, Streak
Templars with: Invasion, Biting Jabs, Blazing Shield, Rushed Ceremony , Blazing Spear

These builds can and do kill DKs all day long. You don't need a "DK Killer" build in particular. I'm not sure what the most effective build is for a survivable nightblade (the only class I haven't played past level 10), but I know it includes Mass Hysteria in there which is probably the best CC in the game and that is something the OP does not want to consider.

Yes, I see cookie cutter build or melee sorcerers every day too, but normal cookier cutter builds don't work against DK. Templar is only class whose cookie cutter has a chance against DK ( Blazing Shield spam ). Sorcerer and NB builds just don't work.

Sorcerer: CF, Fury, Curse, Streak
With Reflective Scales up, we can't use CF and even if it we could, stun won't work because DK is blocking 100% time, and still spamming Flame Lash. Fury execute actually gets reflected, so we can't use that either if we somehow get DK to execute range. So all we have left is curse, and that's like 600+ damage every 3,5 seconds. Can't even use heavy attacks, because then we can't block. Fury itself makes like 250 damage unblocked, so good luck trying to kill a DK with it. Talons don't give any kind of CC immunity, so there's not even any point of trying to get out of them, so only option is to Bolt Escape away and then DK can use Invasion to glose the gap immediately. So in reality it's bolt away for as long as you have magicka left. I hardly call that as a working build against DKs.

NB: If DK survives the first burst, NBs have chances like a snowball in hell. I don't think it matters if NB is melee or ranged, because DK will use invasion to close the gap immediately anyway. NBs don't even have the luxury of BE, because Cloak is totally useless against talon spammin DKs. Only thing I can see would help a NB against DK is Mass Hysteria, but Talons still take NB out of stamina fast, and then it's game over. Maybe caster NB could win, and I personally haven't played veteran level NB so I'm not specialist here, but I still assume that NB has very little chance to stand toe-to-toe with a DK. If I'm wrong, I'm glad for NBs and I'll admit my mistake immediately.

Templar: Well, IMO templars have tons of options to take DKs down. Blazing Shard ( procs ), Blazing Shield, Backlash, Blinding Flashes and of course Total Dark + Dark Flare. On top of that they can also heal. That's why I'm leveling a Templar to put those DKs back to their place But like I said, sorcerers and NBs are really helpless against DKs with their cookie cutter builds.

I'm sure that sorcerer with 1h/Shield + Defensive Posture and Boundless Storm ( 6% chance for disintegrate procs ) has a much better chance against a DK, but against 100% blocking DK it's still going to be hard. It offers more survivability for sure, but it also gimps your magicka regen ( resto heavy attack ) and DPS ( light attack weaving ) quite a lot, so your overall ranged ability goes down a lot. Also very few sorcerer wants to be in the front lines because we can't heal. So yes, I think sorcerers can kill DKs, but they have to spec for it, while DK cookier cutter still rocks in pretty much every situation.

Long story short, I'd just like to see buffs for other classes. For example sorcerers have a nice root spell, but it's so expensive that nobody uses it. Daedric Tomb is another example, that looks like a great defensive skill, but way too expensive to ever use. Critical Surge is great for PVE, but totally useless in PVP. I'm sure NBs have similar skills too, that look good in paper, but in practice they are next to useless. DKs are just fortunate that their skills are really working, and I don't want to see those working skills nerfed to the ground, but I'd like to see other classes to have working skill lines too.

@Mendoze, very long post mate (I've read it all, but...) I'll focus and respond to the bolded part.

I never said it's easy to take down a DK with the standard Sorc build, but it certainly is possible and I see people do it every day. I'm a member of a duelling guild and I watch duels between all classes and trust me DKs do go down as much as anyone else. If you think NBs can't take a DK 1v1 you're more than mistaken.

Ultimately you have your opinions, which seem so very set in stone that I'm not going to argue with you any further, as there doesn't seem to be a point.

All I'll say is, if you're playing in EU contact me and I'll happily take you to see some fights that will make you reassess things. I used to think like you, until I saw with my own eyes evidence to the contrary. I encourage you to take me up on my offer and pm me. It'll be a interesting experience I promise.

Note: If you're in NA you might want to contact Legend, they organise things over there.

Aeratus

DK isn't really overpowered. It's just over-flashy.

"Oh look, this guy is flapping wings. He has my attention and I can't resist shooting him with my awesome ranged attacks even though he has no ranged attacks of his own."

"Whip! That fire is so badass I'm going to assume it does 20x more damage than my own attacks. I'm just going to submit like I normally do when I see a dominatrix."

Sleep

In my opinion every calss could be very powerful.
Nightblade - jump, kill, roll dodge, vanish, repeat. Nobody can see him.
Dragonknight - Block, Reflect, Talon, Standard, repeat. Never run out of magicka and stamina.
Templar - Blazing Shield, Blazing Shield, Blazing Shield, Boom, all die.
Sorcerer - Hardened Ward, Healing Ward, restoration staff, streak, Cystal Fragment, Curse, never run out of magicka, never run out of shield, massive heal.
I've seen them all.