kitsinni wrote: »

The real issues is NB is based around two systems, stealth and crit for the most part. Stealth has more issues than you can count and crit is great for PvE but almost useless in PvP because of a single armor trait. Yes I know we have plenty of stuff that is not stealth or crit based but that is our specialization.

Totally agree. I think they severely overestimated the effect of stealth and critical damage in this game. That's why the NB abilities have trade offs where other classes don't.

Another thing that bothers me is that stealthy and improved sneak are not just part of the NB passives. Why do they limit those abilities to medium armor and the Aldmeri Dominion? Or should we just be picking AD if want to be stealthy assassins? They build class abilities around stealth and sneak but then don't give all NBs the tools to take advantage of those things.

The NB class is a class without a class. Every other class can do the same things but better. And what gives them an ostensible advantage is easily mitigated by the impenetrable trait and mage light.

They should find some other way to increase NB DPS without relying so much on crits. Also, if they're built around stealth then give more than just two races in the same alliance a boost. And allow medium armor to regen magicka or something if that's going to be the only way for non-bosmer/khajiit to get improved stealth.

The real problem is NBs have never had all of their skills working at any one time. I get used to playing a certain way and then next week I feel like I am launching my head against the wall; certainly compared with other classes.

I have no idea if my NB is just not very viable at any particular time is due to an ill-thought-out/poorly-designed class or just plain bugs or a combination.

Just saying ...

Varicite wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

NBs are the only class with 0 Mitigation, 0 Self Heal and it shows.

#buffBlur
@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

You are deliberately exaggerating the situation, or know nothing about NB abilities, and it shows.

Comments like these are extremely unhelpful.

If you were to write things that were actually based in reality, it would be much easier to take your concerns seriously.

Compared to DK's Dragons Blood, Templar heals/Blazing shield mitigation, and Sorc hardening ward, NBs have next to 0 mitigation and 0 self heal. Better?


It's laughable to even compare swallow soul to Dragons Blood. DKs healsfor 33% missing health, boost health regen by 40% AND recoves 27% stam with one freaking press of the button.

Same thing can be said about blur compared to hardening ward or blazing shield. Do you understand now?

It is laughable to compare Swallow Soul to Dragon's Blood.

Swallow Soul costs like half the Magicka of Dragon's Blood, deals decent damage, increases all healing done to you by 10%, and generates Ultimate each time you cast, increases your max Magicka by 8% for having it slotted, and heals more for crits.

Dragon's Blood heals 33% health for almost twice the cost, deals 0 damage, increases health regen in combat (lol?), and increases stamina regen by 27% (it doesn't recover 27% stamina, which your wording seems to imply), cannot crit, and is not boosted by any +healing effects.

The 27% stam regen is nice, but NB already has +30% stam regen passively w/out pressing any buttons.

They are different beasts entirely, imo. For healing done, Dragon's Blood wins out. But for utility's sake, Swallow Soul is pretty nice. Although, I personally go w/ the Funnel Health morph, which heals allies and is insane for Ultimate regeneration due to multiple heal crits.

Why would you compare Blur to Hardened Ward and Blazing Shield, when it's obvious the more correct analog would be Dark Cloak?

I'm not saying that NBs are fine; I was simply saying that exaggerating the situation and purposefully downplaying the strengths of NBs makes your argument look contrived.

Do you understand now?

are you actually trying to argue that swallow soul is in anyway on par with GDB?

Oooh boy. That's not even worth the trouble to counter, really.

I run funnel health, and I ran swallow soul in the past. Besides the fact that you are using two different abilities, an active and a passive, to equate to all of just GDB, it doesn't change the fact that the single ability swallow soul/funnel health, versus green dragon blood on a self heal or utility basis, GDB wins by miles. For example, GDB can keep a DK alive indefinitely, If I try to spam funnel health to keep myself alive? I'm going to be stuck with no magicka and dead shortly after that. Performance wise they just aren't comparable and saying otherwise is delusional.

I don't think any of the skills listed in the second paragraph are comparable. As far as mitigation goes, yes that is cloak for nightblades, but cloak is also some very sad mitigation outside of pve.

PS does anyone else think the range on mass hysteria is absurdly low? I have to literally be on top of the enemy for it to hit.

Aeratus wrote: »

No, he's saying that strife and GDB are wholly different types of skills, and comparison between GDB and one single aspect (the healing aspect) of funnel health is just silly.

Right, but that is our self-heal, and it's not like there are benefits to funnel health that green dragon blood doesn't get (except ultimate gain, but I will give you that in exchange for GDB personally.)

As I stated earlier our self-heal is sub-optimal especially compared to all the other classes' self heals.

I use it anyway, but I would trade the ability and another spot on my skill bar for something equiv to green dragon's blood.

I think the main issue was we requried...
Stealth + burst DPS.
When it was realised that meant one shot....everyone QQ'd.

So our dps got nerfed.

Reality was big hitters get
80% damage per hit or something.
To be on a par with 50% crit
we would need 105% hit 1 + 65% hit 2 = mean of 80%

Would anyone allow 105% damage....the hell they would.
They see the burst figure and not the average
Hence NB was instantly damaged goods and the class broken

NBS should get a skill in their tree which allows better stealth than other classes that is what sets us aside. At the moment I just use a detection potion. Nightshade and other sets give around 20% better which is pretty minimal really, as you'll be getting around 2m more. Coupled with lag etc this doesn't translate to much, but is an advantage. But as its a set its available to others and takes away from other sets we could use to make our character stronger.

Shadow cloak is broken. Concealed weapon is broken and night's silence is broken once these are fixed the game will be more enjoyable for me.

Personally I have no issue with NBS skills (when they work) its weapon/stam builds which still need work. Zos' fixes so far give me little hope for the future.

Desdemonte wrote: »

JessieColt wrote: »

With the exception of a couple of real issues that have been mentioned, it seems that some people are upset that Nightblades are not a faceroll class.

I have a DW/NB VR10 (Nearly VR11) and I have minor issues with PvE. I do not PvP so I cannot address any complaints or issues that PvP players have with the Nightblade.

I use a mix of both Class and Weapon skills. I do not rely solely on one or the other. I balance the needs of my NB.

I have also stacked most points into Stamina. Along with armor and enchants that increase Stamina. And food buffs that boost stamina.

Is this 'working around' issues. Sure! That is why the Nightblade is not a faceroll class.

Each class is supposed to have both strengths and weaknesses. You are not supposed to do everything with a single class.

You do not like that you cannot faceroll a Nightblade, then pick another class to play.

Otherwise L2P!!!!! If that includes work-arounds for the weaknesses of the class then congratulations, you actually have to THINK in order to play a NB.

If you do not want to have to think, or accept the challenge of managing your Stamina, or would rather just faceroll through everything, then play another class.

Those of us who have taken the time to L2P a NB are not having issues.

Unless you're talking PvE as in end game vet level trials, you do not have a leg to stand on with this arguement. PvE is a frigging cakewalk until trials. I could have you choose for me to play any 2 weapon loadouts with any class (NB incl) and not have a problem in PvE, it's been nerffed so hard.

Go try some PvP and come back here with your experiences with how good NBs currently are (unless you go LA + Resto/Destro which is the "I win" button for *any* class). Try testing your skills and reaction times against other people instead of the borderline [snip] AI in this game.

All I can say is l......o......l.

I love how PvE'rs think any of their content is challenging.

I facerolled vet content before the nerf,

PvP is wear the pain is.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

JessieColt wrote: »

With the exception of a couple of real issues that have been mentioned, it seems that some people are upset that Nightblades are not a faceroll class.

I have a DW/NB VR10 (Nearly VR11) and I have minor issues with PvE. I do not PvP so I cannot address any complaints or issues that PvP players have with the Nightblade.

I use a mix of both Class and Weapon skills. I do not rely solely on one or the other. I balance the needs of my NB.

I have also stacked most points into Stamina. Along with armor and enchants that increase Stamina. And food buffs that boost stamina.

Is this 'working around' issues. Sure! That is why the Nightblade is not a faceroll class.

Each class is supposed to have both strengths and weaknesses. You are not supposed to do everything with a single class.

You do not like that you cannot faceroll a Nightblade, then pick another class to play.

Otherwise L2P!!!!! If that includes work-arounds for the weaknesses of the class then congratulations, you actually have to THINK in order to play a NB.

If you do not want to have to think, or accept the challenge of managing your Stamina, or would rather just faceroll through everything, then play another class.

Those of us who have taken the time to L2P a NB are not having issues.

Unless you're talking PvE as in end game vet level trials, you do not have a leg to stand on with this arguement. PvE is a frigging cakewalk until trials. I could have you choose for me to play any 2 weapon loadouts with any class (NB incl) and not have a problem in PvE, it's been nerffed so hard.

Go try some PvP and come back here with your experiences with how good NBs currently are (unless you go LA + Resto/Destro which is the "I win" button for *any* class). Try testing your skills and reaction times against other people instead of the borderline 'tard AI in this game.

All I can say is l......o......l.

I love how PvE'rs think any of their content is challenging.

I facerolled vet content before the nerf,

PvP is wear the pain is.

The irony of a pver saying l2p would be funny, if playing an NB in PvP wasn't so frustrating.

I'm getting really frustrated with a lot of the posts I read in every "NB is underpowered" post and the like.
I use a NB as my only build and I do agree with a lot of stuff that is said, but anyone who is genuinely trying to learn from these posts is getting such mixed information it's not funny.
One of the things that annoyed me most is someone saying that EVERY class has a viable self heal and NB's should be the same. Sorcs ONLY self heal is completely dependant on critical attacks. That is not viable at all, so there is no need for NB's to have anything better than what we have now.
I have also heard that every class can do anything better than us. If you are on the DC side on the NA server, just find me (@Tigeracer) and I will prove you so wrong that you may reconsider. My character is a tank, stamina dps, magicka melee dps and crafter, all in one. I hate the idea of wearing a [snip] dress and using a staff, but instead of giving in or just ranting on forums, I actually did some testing and planning. I wear 7 medium in dps mode and 7 heavy in tank mode. I am trials viable with both and have completed EVERY trial and dungeon (apart from the new serpent Ophidia one) as both tank and dps (not at the same time though, lol). I have also been able to solo all of the craglorn delves (that don't require 4 people to activate something) on my own (as a tank). I did that to prove that people saying you need to use 7 light and resto are just jerks. I also know a pretty great NB healer! So although other classes may be better at doing things, NB can do it all (and I don't think any class can solo as effectively as NB's).
Another thing that annoys me is when people say swallow soul and sap essence are not as good as whatever other classes have. That is total BS. Sap essence is the whole reason I am able to do everything on my own (as a tank) and swallow soul is how I defeat bosses that can't be cc'd.
I get really aggravated when people mix up NB abilities with stamina and vamp abilities. I know people who use a stamina build and have never even tried a NB. The same goes with vamps.
Anyone who says stamina NB's are useless, just check out Decimus on YouTube. He makes short work of everyone who comes across him.

I think shadow cloak and it's morphs need to be fixed ASAP. I use dark cloak and get fairly frustrated, but I don't like reading the same post a million times. Everyone knows it's broken, including the devs. Before you make a post about it again, read through the ten other exact same posts to see that the devs have read and acknowledged at least one of them.

I strongly disagree with people wanting to be a NB and stand toe to toe with a DK or Templar, since they are designed to be warriors (and besides, if you set yourself up as a tank, you can). I also think that sorcs should have the ability streak. As much as it annoys me to fight someone with it, I don't want it to be changed.
I also think that the NB downsides to abilities need to be there. We are supposed to come from the shadows and melt face quickly, before enemies can react. I don't think having a 75% armour debuff is very fair when we (are supposed to) have strong stealth abilities to murder people quick. If you think it's not like this, I encourage you again to check out Decimus on YouTube.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

To deal with DKs up close, you can equip sword and shield, with resto staff as swap. The DK's shield charge is a non-issue, because any class can shield charge (including NB with shield), and you can block it by holding block or by using immovable. Your response to lava whip spam is veiled attack (surprise attack) spam. The response to GDB is resto staff heals in your swap bar. Also, keep in mind that NBs have superior potion utilization compared to other classes.

Even if DK is stronger in melee, you'd be dead wrong to say that any random DK scrub can drop an NB that is built for the occasion (which obviously excludes glass cannon bow snipers) and well played. Also, DKs who are melee spcialists don't have the ranged dps that other classes do, and pvp isn't just about 1v1 melee.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

[...]Marked target gives the target a huge advantage against the nightblade. the downside for the caster should be like half of what it is. Even then it seems excessive, [...]

The only change I feel Marked Target needs is to remove any indication to the targeted player they have been marked. Then it can be used in conjunction with the initial surprise attack. As it is using the skill now as part of an initial attack is worse than useless, it's detrimental.

Helwyr wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

[...]Marked target gives the target a huge advantage against the nightblade. the downside for the caster should be like half of what it is. Even then it seems excessive, [...]

The only change I feel Marked Target needs is to remove any indication to the targeted player they have been marked. Then it can be used in conjunction with the initial surprise attack. As it is using the skill now as part of an initial attack is worse than useless, it's detrimental.

I always thought Mark Target was supposed to be a support ability. IE, you mark someone right before your buddy slams them.